(12-26-2013 12:03 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 11:37 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 11:32 AM)EnterSandman Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 09:07 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  FWIW:

Easy Calculation:

POWER FIVE Conf AVERAGES:

SEC: 1,317.1 (14 teams) = $94.08m per team

Big Ten: $1,281.3 (14 teams) = $91.52m per team

Big XII: $880.8 (10 teams) = $88.08m per team

PAC-12: $889.1 (12 teams) = $74.09m per team

ACC: $1,010.0 (14 teams) = $72.14m per team

01.) Southeastern Conference = $94,080,790
02.) Big Ten Conference = $91,515,556
03.) Big XII Conference = $88,075,692
04.) Pacific-12 Conference = $74,087,307
05.) Atlantic Coast Conference = $72,151,774
06.) American Athletic Conference = $42,290,208
07.) Mountain West Conference = $31,272,319
08.) Mid-American Conference = $25,417,638
09.) Conference USA = $25,049,778
10.) Sun Belt Conference = $18,742,721

Take away the BCS monies and all the NCAA bb revenues earned by old BE, and I suspect the monies take a huge hit for AAC teams UConn, Cincy, and USF and the gap between AAC, MWC, and CUSA tightens considerably.

The new BCS $$$$ is going to be the same for what the Old BIG EAST Schools received...the difference is the P5 is going to receive a huge increase.

As for Basketball Credits going forward...the AAC with UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati and Temple should make more than any GoF Conference and in regards to Basketball that league is still a Power League...

Regarding your Point 1, that's true. But it is also true that MWC and MWC will receive the same per school as AAC, which, in this data, appears to be inflated for the past BCS distribution pattern. That is, USF, Cincy, and UConn received more than the AAC invitees.

Regarding your Point 2, that's also true. But I doubt USF, Cincy, and UConn receive the NCAA monies generated by the old powerhouse BE.

So, as I stated, this ranking based on old distributions of monies and is not accurate of the future. The difference between AAC and CUSA & MWC will decrease in the new upcoming money distributions.

(12-26-2013 12:23 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(12-24-2013 11:10 PM)EnterSandman Wrote:  Total Revenues by Team


001.) The University of Texas at Austin - $165,691,486
002.) University of Wisconsin-Madison - $146,366,405
003.) The University of Alabama - $143,393,059
004.) University of Florida - $129,505,644
005.) University of Oklahoma-Norman - $123,805,661
006.) Ohio State University - $123,604,626
007.) University of Michigan-Ann Arbor - $122,742,252
008.) Louisiana State University - $117,457,398
009.) The University of Tennessee - $109,925,351
010.) University of Notre Dame - $108,509,683

011.) University of Iowa - $106,703,779
012.) Pennsylvania State University - $104,751,468
013.) Auburn University - $102,864,769
014.) University of Arkansas - $99,769,099
015.) University of Minnesota - $98,203,198
016.) University of Georgia - $98,120,889
017.) University of Southern California - $97,802,254
018.) University of Louisville - $96,193,329
019.) University of Kansas - $92,873,192
020.) University of California-Berkeley - $91,815,125

021.) Stanford University - $90,490,234
022.) University of South Carolina-Columbia - $90,484,422
023.) Florida State University - $89,145,159
024.) University of Nebraska-Lincoln - $86,916,001
025.) University of Kentucky - $86,570,579
026.) University of Washington-Seattle - $85,072,886
027.) University of Virginia - $84,402,712
028.) University of California-Los Angeles - $83,926,720
029.) University of Oregon - $81,374,469
030.) Michigan State University - $79,369,587

031.) Texas A & M University-College Station - $78,530,133
032.) Baylor University - $78,412,938
033.) University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill - $78,141,093
034.) West Virginia University - $77,706,696
035.) Oklahoma State University - $76,638,487
036.) Duke University - $76,366,113
037.) Syracuse University - $76,329,618
038.) Indiana University-Bloomington - $75,738,695
039.) Purdue University - $74,481,250
040.) North Carolina State University at Raleigh - $73,446,347

041.) Texas Christian University - $71,932,668
042.) Rutgers University-New Brunswick - $71,851,419
043.) University of Missouri-Columbia - $71,149,002
044.) Virginia Polytechnic Institute - $69,845,483
045.) Kansas State University - $69,250,204
046.) Clemson University - $68,163,948
047.) University of Miami - $67,253,273
048.) Northwestern University - $66,413,894
049.) University of Arizona - $66,327,515
050.) University of Colorado Boulder - $66,327,498

051.) University of Mississippi - $66,233,842
052.) University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign - $65,967,262
053.) Arizona State University - $63,770,785
054.) Georgia Institute of Technology - $63,630,964
055.) University of Connecticut - $63,374,981
056.) Iowa State University - $62,357,760
057.) Texas Tech University - $62,087,832
058.) Mississippi State University - $62,004,404
059.) Vanderbilt University $61,122,469
060.) Boston College - $60,770,300

061.) Oregon State University - $60,193,022
062.) University of Maryland-College Park - $58,107,950
063.) University of Pittsburgh - $57,606,235
064.) Brigham Young University-Provo - $54,644,578
065.) Southern Methodist University - $52,029,002
066.) University of Utah - $51,792,903
067.) Washington State University - $50,154,279
068.) Wake Forest University - $48,830,266
069.) University of South Florida - $45,102,784
070.) University of Cincinnati - $45,065,244

071.) University of Memphis - $43,148,158
072.) San Diego State University - $42,380,968
073.) University of Central Florida - $41,957,141
074.) Temple University - $41,558,322
075.) University of Houston - $35,514,862
076.) East Carolina University - $35,459,448
077.) University of Hawaii at Manoa - $33,971,200
078.) Boise State University - $33,219,370
079.) University of Tulsa - $32,541,245
080.) Colorado State University-Fort Collins - $32,535,454

081.) Rice University - $32,294,612
082.) University of Nevada-Las Vegas - $32,288,243
083.) University of New Mexico - $32,146,734
084.) California State University-Fresno - $32,016,817
085.) Texas State University-San Marcos - $30,469,793
086.) University of Wyoming - $29,731,941
087.) Tulane University - $29,441,104
088.) Miami University-Oxford - $28,955,007
089.) University at Buffalo - $28,661,287
090.) University of Massachusetts Amherst - $28,659,514

091.) Florida International University - $28,332,259
092.) Central Michigan University - $27,680,624
093.) University of Alabama at Birmingham - $27,430,624
094.) Ohio University - $27,265,061
095.) University of Akron - $26,479,926
096.) Western Kentucky University - $26,109,720
097.) University of North Texas - $25,910,370
098.) Kent State University - $25,871,038
099.) San Jose State University - $25,854,038
100.) Marshall University - $25,724,120

101.) The University of Texas at El Paso - $25,723,452
102.) Western Michigan University - $25,458,301
103.) University of Nevada-Reno - $25,404,564
104.) Middle Tennessee State University - $24,845,231
105.) New Mexico State University - $24,811,219
106.) The University of Texas at San Antonio - $24,828,401
107.) Georgia State University - $24,763,930
108.) Utah State University - $24,446,189
109.) University of Toledo - $23,654,142
110.) Florida Atlantic University - $22,854,201

111.) Ball State University - $22,644,535
112.) Northern Illinois University - $22,552,032
113.) Eastern Michigan University - $21,904,183
114.) UNITED STATES MILITARY ACADEMY - $21,620,575
115.) Bowling Green State University - $20,643,645
116.) University of Southern Mississippi - $19,667,859
117.) Troy University - $17,452,843
118.) University of Louisiana at Lafayette - $17,257,822
119.) Louisiana Tech University - $16,876,487
120.) University of South Alabama - $16,328,668

121.) University of Idaho - $14,840,070
122.) Arkansas State University - $13,565,978
123.) University of Louisiana-Monroe - $9,194,173


American Athletic Conference

01.) University of Connecticut - $63,374,981
02.) Southern Methodist University - $52,029,002
03.) University of South Florida - $45,102,784
04.) University of Cincinnati - $45,065,244
05.) University of Memphis - $43,148,158
06.) University of Central Florida - $41,957,141
07.) Temple University - $41,558,322
08.) University of Houston - $35,514,862
09.) East Carolina University - $35,459,448
10.) University of Tulsa - $32,541,245
11.) Tulane University - $29,441,104


Atlantic Coast Conference

01.) University of Louisville - $96,193,329
02.) Florida State University - $89,145,159
03.) University of Virginia - $84,402,712
04.) University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill - $78,141,093
05.) Duke University - $76,366,113
06.) Syracuse University - $76,329,618
07.) North Carolina State University at Raleigh - $73,446,347
08.) Virginia Polytechnic Institute - $69,845,483
09.) Clemson University - $68,163,948
10.) University of Miami - $67,253,273
11.) Georgia Institute of Technology - $63,630,964
12.) Boston College - $60,770,300
13.) University of Pittsburgh - $57,606,235
14.) Wake Forest University - $48,830,266


Big Ten Conference

01.) University of Wisconsin-Madison - $146,366,405
02.) Ohio State University - $123,604,626
03.) University of Michigan-Ann Arbor - $122,742,252
04.) University of Iowa - $106,703,779
05.) Pennsylvania State University - $104,751,468
06.) University of Minnesota - $98,203,198
07.) University of Nebraska-Lincoln - $86,916,001
08.) Michigan State University - $79,369,587
09.) Indiana University-Bloomington - $75,738,695
10.) Purdue University - $74,481,250
11.) Rutgers University-New Brunswick - $71,851,419
12.) Northwestern University - $66,413,894
13.) University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign - $65,967,262
14.) University of Maryland-College Park - $58,107,950


Big XII Conference

01.) The University of Texas at Austin - $165,691,486
02.) University of Oklahoma-Norman - $123,805,661
03.) University of Kansas - $92,873,192
04.) Baylor University - $78,412,938
05.) West Virginia University - $77,706,696
06.) Oklahoma State University - $76,638,487
07.) Texas Christian University - $71,932,668
08.) Kansas State University - $69,250,204
09.) Iowa State University - $62,357,760
10.) Texas Tech University - $62,087,832


Conference USA

01.) Rice University - $32,294,612
02.) Florida International University - $28,332,259
03.) University of Alabama at Birmingham - $27,430,624
04.) Western Kentucky University - $26,109,720
05.) University of North Texas - $25,910,370
06.) Marshall University - $25,724,120
07.) The University of Texas at El Paso - $25,723,452
08.) Middle Tennessee State University - $24,845,231
09.) The University of Texas at San Antonio - $24,828,401
10.) Florida Atlantic University - $22,854,201
11.) University of Southern Mississippi - $19,667,859
12.) Louisiana Tech University - $16,876,487


Mid-American Conference

01.) Miami University-Oxford - $28,955,007
02.) University at Buffalo - $28,661,287
03.) University of Massachusetts Amherst - $28,659,514
04.) Central Michigan University - $27,680,624
05.) Ohio University - $27,265,061
06.) University of Akron - $26,479,926
07.) Kent State University - $25,871,038
08.) Western Michigan University - $25,458,301
09.) University of Toledo - $23,654,142
10.) Ball State University - $22,644,535
11.) Northern Illinois University - $22,552,032
12.) Eastern Michigan University - $21,904,183
13.) Bowling Green State University - $20,643,645


Mountain West Conference

01.) San Diego State University - $42,380,968
02.) University of Hawaii at Manoa - $33,971,200
03.) Boise State University - $33,219,370
04.) Colorado State University-Fort Collins - $32,535,454
05.) University of Nevada-Las Vegas - $32,288,243
06.) University of New Mexico - $32,146,734
07.) California State University-Fresno - $32,016,817
08.) University of Wyoming - $29,731,941
09.) San Jose State University - $25,854,038
10.) University of Nevada-Reno - $25,404,564
11.) Utah State University - $24,446,189


Pacific-12 Conference

01.) University of Southern California - $97,802,254
02.) University of California-Berkeley - $91,815,125
03.) Stanford University - $90,490,234
04.) University of Washington-Seattle - $85,072,886
05.) University of California-Los Angeles - $83,926,720
06.) University of Oregon - $81,374,469
07.) University of Arizona - $66,327,515
08.) University of Colorado Boulder - $66,327,498
09.) Arizona State University - $63,770,785
10.) Oregon State University - $60,193,022
11.) University of Utah - $51,792,903
12.) Washington State University - $50,154,279


Southeastern Conference

01.) The University of Alabama - $143,393,059
02.) University of Florida - $129,505,644
03.) Louisiana State University - $117,457,398
04.) The University of Tennessee - $109,925,351
05.) Auburn University - $102,864,769
06.) University of Arkansas - $99,769,099
07.) University of Georgia - $98,120,889
08.) University of South Carolina-Columbia - $90,484,422
09.) University of Kentucky - $86,570,579
10.) Texas A & M University-College Station - $78,530,133
11.) University of Missouri-Columbia - $71,149,002
12.) University of Mississippi - $66,233,842
13.) Mississippi State University - $62,004,404
14.) Vanderbilt University $61,122,469


Sun Belt Conference

01.) Texas State University-San Marcos - $30,469,793
02.) New Mexico State University - $24,811,219
03.) Georgia State University - $24,763,930
04.) Troy University - $17,452,843
05.) University of Louisiana at Lafayette - $17,257,822
06.) University of South Alabama - $16,328,668
07.) University of Idaho - $14,840,070
08.) Arkansas State University - $13,565,978
09.) University of Louisiana-Monroe - $9,194,173


Independents

01.) University of Notre Dame - $108,509,683
02.) Brigham Young University-Provo - $54,644,578
03.) UNITED STATES MILITARY ACADEMY - $21,620,575

I assume that includes Student Fees and subsidies from the school. It is more interesting to look at revenue earned by the athletic department. That tells a very different picture.

Good point! For example, SDSU has among the highest student fees supporting athletics in the nation.

(12-26-2013 12:33 PM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 12:03 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 11:37 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 11:32 AM)EnterSandman Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 09:07 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  FWIW:

Easy Calculation:

POWER FIVE Conf AVERAGES:

SEC: 1,317.1 (14 teams) = $94.08m per team

Big Ten: $1,281.3 (14 teams) = $91.52m per team

Big XII: $880.8 (10 teams) = $88.08m per team

PAC-12: $889.1 (12 teams) = $74.09m per team

ACC: $1,010.0 (14 teams) = $72.14m per team

01.) Southeastern Conference = $94,080,790
02.) Big Ten Conference = $91,515,556
03.) Big XII Conference = $88,075,692
04.) Pacific-12 Conference = $74,087,307
05.) Atlantic Coast Conference = $72,151,774
06.) American Athletic Conference = $42,290,208
07.) Mountain West Conference = $31,272,319
08.) Mid-American Conference = $25,417,638
09.) Conference USA = $25,049,778
10.) Sun Belt Conference = $18,742,721

Take away the BCS monies and all the NCAA bb revenues earned by old BE, and I suspect the monies take a huge hit for AAC teams UConn, Cincy, and USF and the gap between AAC, MWC, and CUSA tightens considerably.

The new BCS $$$$ is going to be the same for what the Old BIG EAST Schools received...the difference is the P5 is going to receive a huge increase.

As for Basketball Credits going forward...the AAC with UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati and Temple should make more than any GoF Conference and in regards to Basketball that league is still a Power League...

Regarding your Point 1, that's true. But it is also true that MWC and MWC will receive the same per school as AAC, which, in this data, appears to be inflated for the past BCS distribution pattern. That is, USF, Cincy, and UConn received more than the AAC invitees.

Regarding your Point 2, that's also true. But I doubt USF, Cincy, and UConn receive the NCAA monies generated by the old powerhouse BE.

So, as I stated, this ranking based on old distributions of monies and is not accurate of the future. The difference between AAC and CUSA & MWC will decrease in the new upcoming money distributions.

1. Point 1: The MWC is receiving a pay increase for Football...my point is that UConn, UC and USF is not really going to lose money but that they are not going to see the huge increase as being a member of the club.

2. Point 2: UConn and UC were part of the main reason why the Old BIG EAST received a large NCAA Credit share especially the Huskies. The addition of Memphis and Temple will offset the loss of Louisville and Syracuse. But make no mistake most years they will be right there in regards to NCAA Credits with the other P5 leagues and far ahead in Basketball revenue in comparison to the MWC, C-USA, MAC and Sunbelt.

(12-25-2013 01:29 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(12-25-2013 09:41 AM)DeacKillsaDevil Wrote:  More unaudited numbers with no standard basis of reporting. Long story short, you basically gave us garbage.

Basically yes...but it is all we have. Many schools pad their figures with mandatory student fees and outright cash influx from the taxpayers.

Any school that shows close to zero in profit/loss I assume to be BS and they probably are bleeding $$$

Do you have the numbers for true revenue minus fees and subsidies? That tends to show a different number. Also not sure how this is 13 as the year isn't complete. What fiscal calendar is assumed?

(12-26-2013 01:13 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(12-25-2013 01:29 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(12-25-2013 09:41 AM)DeacKillsaDevil Wrote:  More unaudited numbers with no standard basis of reporting. Long story short, you basically gave us garbage.

Basically yes...but it is all we have. Many schools pad their figures with mandatory student fees and outright cash influx from the taxpayers.

Any school that shows close to zero in profit/loss I assume to be BS and they probably are bleeding $$$

Do you have the numbers for true revenue minus fees and subsidies? That tends to show a different number. Also not sure how this is 13 as the year isn't complete. What fiscal calendar is assumed?

The college athletic year runs from July 1 through June 30. So these numbers are the 12-13 numbers. I also posted above a link to Sandman's post from last year with the 11-12 numbers from the same EADA site.

The student fees and subsidies is part of the USA Today articles that they collect from public institutions only, also linked above in my post for 2010-11 and in Mountain's post the 11-12 year.

Here is a link that talks about some of the issues with these numbers via tweets from Kristi Bosh at ESPN.

http://www.teamspeedkills.com/2013/5/8/4...abase-2012

For example, did you know some direct support is just the value of tuition waivers for out-of-state student athletes?

Did you know many universities take 50% of licensing revenue from athletics, making it look like athletics makes less?

Another interesting fact: many universities take 5-12% of all donations to athletic dept, which makes revenue smaller.

Cheers,
Neil

There isn't a lot of standardization in the accounting.

Some examples.

I know one CUSA school accounts for virtually all unrestricted donations as a purchase of tickets with the tickets then donated to the booster club.

Arkansas State does not report as athletic expenditures many expenditures by the booster club. For example a coach might have a contract that pays 3X what the state line item is let's say the line item is $75,000 and the coach is paid $225,000 per year. The $75,000 base (state line item) will be paid out of the athletic department along with another $100,000 that is considered base salary (ie. goes toward the coach's retirement calculation), the booster club pays $100,000 over to athletics and the money is added to the salary. Then the coach may have a $50,000 personal services contract between him and the booster club that doesn't go toward his retirement calculation. The school will report $175,000 as an athletic expenditure but the other $50,000 is paid by the booster club and is not included in reporting athletic expenditures because the money doesn't flow through the school.

The Arkansas schools had a dip in expenses a few years ago when the state department of higher education changed accounting rules and began treating all athletic scholarships as if they were in-state tuition. So if two baseball players split a scholarship and one was in-state and the other out-of-state instead of recording it as $19,000 on the books (one half of an in-state scholie worth $15,000 and one half of an out-of-state worth $23,000) it would go on the books as a $15,000 expenditure (ie. athletics pays the school that amount) but the out-of-state student would be on the hook for $11,500 (one-half of an out-state expenditure) and the in-state on the hook for $7500.

There is also great variety in other accounting practices. Some schools will carry the costs of academic counseling and some of the admission and compliance costs as athletic expenses others as academic expenses. Some carry part of their sports medicine costs on the academic books as far as they are related to the training and internship of sports medicine related students. Some will even carry part of their booster club expenses on the books of their academic fundraising arm because they want coordination in how often certain friends of the school are hit up for funds and the nature of those pitches.

The published numbers better than nothing but without standardized accounting practices they are only glimpse.

(12-26-2013 02:41 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 01:13 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(12-25-2013 01:29 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(12-25-2013 09:41 AM)DeacKillsaDevil Wrote:  More unaudited numbers with no standard basis of reporting. Long story short, you basically gave us garbage.

Basically yes...but it is all we have. Many schools pad their figures with mandatory student fees and outright cash influx from the taxpayers.

Any school that shows close to zero in profit/loss I assume to be BS and they probably are bleeding $$$

Do you have the numbers for true revenue minus fees and subsidies? That tends to show a different number. Also not sure how this is 13 as the year isn't complete. What fiscal calendar is assumed?

The college athletic year runs from July 1 through June 30. So these numbers are the 12-13 numbers. I also posted above a link to Sandman's post from last year with the 11-12 numbers from the same EADA site.

The student fees and subsidies is part of the USA Today articles that they collect from public institutions only, also linked above in my post for 2010-11 and in Mountain's post the 11-12 year.

Here is a link that talks about some of the issues with these numbers via tweets from Kristi Bosh at ESPN.

http://www.teamspeedkills.com/2013/5/8/4...abase-2012

For example, did you know some direct support is just the value of tuition waivers for out-of-state student athletes?

Did you know many universities take 50% of licensing revenue from athletics, making it look like athletics makes less?

Another interesting fact: many universities take 5-12% of all donations to athletic dept, which makes revenue smaller.

Cheers,
Neil

It is also common for the stadium and arena pouring rights to be bundled in a broad university contract. Typically the winner (usually Coke or Pepsi or in Texas Dr Pepper) will get the exclusive right to provide product on campus and at the athletic events and that contract often requires that the payment includes the right to signage at the athletic venues and I've heard that at some schools it also includes ads in programs and even electronic media ads such as website, radio and TV with practices varying wildly as to how much of those contracts are deemed athletic revenue.

I don't know current practice at Arkansas State but some years back it was deemed 100% general university auxillary revenue. Pepsi, the rights holder at the time paid that money to university and the president would dole it out to athletics to cover short-falls but otherwise used it as he deemed fit.

(12-26-2013 02:41 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The published numbers better than nothing but without standardized accounting practices they are only glimpse.

Agreed. Standardization would help. Unfortunately, in the current governmental climate, that isn't going to happen. So, as you say, the published numbers are the best we have and in terms of overall revenues and expenses, I'd go with the EADA numbers over the USA Today ones, myself since many are virtually the same and they include the privates as well as the publics, unlike the USA Today ones.

I like the USA Today numbers for the student fees/subsidies piece, but even there one has to be careful, per the tweets shown above. As for the individual EADA numbers on revenue and expenses for men's basketball and football, I'd be leery of comparing those since again, what gets included where is an accounting practice by each individual school.

Cheers,
Neil

(12-26-2013 11:32 AM)EnterSandman Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 09:07 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  FWIW:

Easy Calculation:

POWER FIVE Conf AVERAGES:

SEC: 1,317.1 (14 teams) = $94.08m per team

Big Ten: $1,281.3 (14 teams) = $91.52m per team

Big XII: $880.8 (10 teams) = $88.08m per team

PAC-12: $889.1 (12 teams) = $74.09m per team

ACC: $1,010.0 (14 teams) = $72.14m per team

01.) Southeastern Conference = $94,080,790
02.) Big Ten Conference = $91,515,556
03.) Big XII Conference = $88,075,692
04.) Pacific-12 Conference = $74,087,307
05.) Atlantic Coast Conference = $72,151,774
06.) American Athletic Conference = $42,290,208
07.) Mountain West Conference = $31,272,319
08.) Mid-American Conference = $25,417,638
09.) Conference USA = $25,049,778
10.) Sun Belt Conference = $18,742,721

Sandman - Do you happen to have the Big East numbers?? Not that it's particularly comparable, as all these are Div1 FB leagues. An interesting comparison would be AAC vs Big East.

(12-26-2013 02:49 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 02:41 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 01:13 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(12-25-2013 01:29 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(12-25-2013 09:41 AM)DeacKillsaDevil Wrote:  More unaudited numbers with no standard basis of reporting. Long story short, you basically gave us garbage.

Basically yes...but it is all we have. Many schools pad their figures with mandatory student fees and outright cash influx from the taxpayers.

Any school that shows close to zero in profit/loss I assume to be BS and they probably are bleeding $$$

Do you have the numbers for true revenue minus fees and subsidies? That tends to show a different number. Also not sure how this is 13 as the year isn't complete. What fiscal calendar is assumed?

The college athletic year runs from July 1 through June 30. So these numbers are the 12-13 numbers. I also posted above a link to Sandman's post from last year with the 11-12 numbers from the same EADA site.

The student fees and subsidies is part of the USA Today articles that they collect from public institutions only, also linked above in my post for 2010-11 and in Mountain's post the 11-12 year.

Here is a link that talks about some of the issues with these numbers via tweets from Kristi Bosh at ESPN.

http://www.teamspeedkills.com/2013/5/8/4...abase-2012

For example, did you know some direct support is just the value of tuition waivers for out-of-state student athletes?

Did you know many universities take 50% of licensing revenue from athletics, making it look like athletics makes less?

Another interesting fact: many universities take 5-12% of all donations to athletic dept, which makes revenue smaller.

Cheers,
Neil

It is also common for the stadium and arena pouring rights to be bundled in a broad university contract. Typically the winner (usually Coke or Pepsi or in Texas Dr Pepper) will get the exclusive right to provide product on campus and at the athletic events and that contract often requires that the payment includes the right to signage at the athletic venues and I've heard that at some schools it also includes ads in programs and even electronic media ads such as website, radio and TV with practices varying wildly as to how much of those contracts are deemed athletic revenue.

I don't know current practice at Arkansas State but some years back it was deemed 100% general university auxillary revenue. Pepsi, the rights holder at the time paid that money to university and the president would dole it out to athletics to cover short-falls but otherwise used it as he deemed fit.

That practice is pretty much SOP at most schools from what I understand, especially when it comes to revenue from merchandise sales. Many schools will split revenue from merchandise sales between the athletic department and the general fund. It is very difficult to get real numbers from most schools because of all the fuzzy accoutning they do.

Here are some of the comparisons of the top 30 public institutions between Sandman's EADA numbers from 11-12 and the ones the USA Today reported for 11-12:

Texas - $163,295,114; $163,295,115 - same
OSU - $142,043,056; $142,043,057 - same
Mich - $128,750,370; $140,131,187 - $11,380,817
Alab - $124,129,127; $124,899,945 - $770,818
Florida - $120,267,106; $120,772,106 - same
LSU - $113,964,540; $114,787,786 - $823,246
PSU - $108,252,284; $108,252,281 - same
Okla - $106,456,616; $106,456,616 - same
Aub - $105,951,256; $105,951,251 - same
Tenn - $105,869,282; $102,884,286 - $2,984,996
Wisc - $101,490,339; $103,803,040 - $2,312,701
Ark - $99,757,483; $99,757,482 - same
Iowa - $97,415,941; $97,902,974 - $487,033
Georgia - $91,670,613; $91,670,613 - same
L'Ville - $87,840,504; $87,840,501 - same
USCe - $87,608,352; $87,608,352 - same
Kentucky - $85,632,716; $88,373,452 - $2,740,736
Okla St - $84,125,525; $87,270,598 - $3,145,073
Minn - $83,619,456; $83,619,526 - same
Wash - $82,594,783; $82,594,783 - same
Neb - $81,631,252; $81,631,252 - same
FSU - $81,444,039; $100,049,444 -$18,605,405
UVa - $81,321,219; $80,835,566 - $485,653
WVU - $80,019,885; $80,064,869 -$45,014
Kansas - $79,160,569; $70,228,913 - $8,931,656
TA&M - $79,026,849; $119,702,222 - $40,675,373
MSU - $79,019,535; $93,946,707 - $14,927,172
UNC - $78,830,350; $82,424,430 - $3,594,080
Ariz - $75,999,619; $78,024,219 - $2,024,600
Oregon - $73,911,738; $94,635,829 - $20,724,091

13 of these institutions reported basically the same number to each while 5 more had a discrepancy of less than 1 million dollars, which is chicken feed for these type of numbers in regard to these institutions.

6 institutions reported a discrepancy between 2 and 4 million dollars.

1 institution reported a discrepancy of just under 9 million dollars

While the remaining 5 institutions had a discrepancy of over 10 million dollars with the three most eye-popping ones being FSU with just over 18.5 million dollar discrepancy, Oregon with over a 20 million dollar discrepancy and Texas A&M with a whopping 40 million dollar discrepancy.

If I were a federal auditor, those are the three institutions whose books I would most like to review.

Cheers,
Neil

Why is Notre Dame omitted from the ACC's average? They are conference members despite the fact that some don't like it.

(12-25-2013 09:21 AM)DexterDevil Wrote:  

(12-25-2013 08:35 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(12-24-2013 11:18 PM)DexterDevil Wrote:  Texas State is in CUSA and UTSA is missing I'm your post.

Sent from my LG-VM696 using Tapatalk 2

UTSA is in CUSA as University of Texas at San Antonio

Texas St. is in the SBC not CUSA. OP has it correct.

(12-24-2013 11:24 PM)msu_bears Wrote:  source? how many of those are considering tuition and athletic fees as revenue. I'm guessing a lot of those lower tier schools are pretending to have more revenue than they really have.

Source - looks like somebody has collected the individual school data from he federal Equity in Athletics website: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

The revenue definitely includes school subsidization, such as from student fees and transfers from general revenues.

Didn't originally have it correct, OP had Texas State in CUSA and UTSA wasn't in it. I was notifying OP of the typo.

Sent from my LG-VM696 using Tapatalk 2

Thanks for clarifying.

(12-26-2013 04:19 PM)omniorange Wrote:  Here are some of the comparisons of the top 30 public institutions between Sandman's EADA numbers from 11-12 and the ones the USA Today reported for 11-12:

Texas - $163,295,114; $163,295,115 - same
OSU - $142,043,056; $142,043,057 - same
Mich - $128,750,370; $140,131,187 - $11,380,817
Alab - $124,129,127; $124,899,945 - $770,818
Florida - $120,267,106; $120,772,106 - same
LSU - $113,964,540; $114,787,786 - $823,246
PSU - $108,252,284; $108,252,281 - same
Okla - $106,456,616; $106,456,616 - same
Aub - $105,951,256; $105,951,251 - same
Tenn - $105,869,282; $102,884,286 - $2,984,996
Wisc - $101,490,339; $103,803,040 - $2,312,701
Ark - $99,757,483; $99,757,482 - same
Iowa - $97,415,941; $97,902,974 - $487,033
Georgia - $91,670,613; $91,670,613 - same
L'Ville - $87,840,504; $87,840,501 - same
USCe - $87,608,352; $87,608,352 - same
Kentucky - $85,632,716; $88,373,452 - $2,740,736
Okla St - $84,125,525; $87,270,598 - $3,145,073
Minn - $83,619,456; $83,619,526 - same
Wash - $82,594,783; $82,594,783 - same
Neb - $81,631,252; $81,631,252 - same
FSU - $81,444,039; $100,049,444 -$18,605,405
UVa - $81,321,219; $80,835,566 - $485,653
WVU - $80,019,885; $80,064,869 -$45,014
Kansas - $79,160,569; $70,228,913 - $8,931,656
TA&M - $79,026,849; $119,702,222 - $40,675,373
MSU - $79,019,535; $93,946,707 - $14,927,172
UNC - $78,830,350; $82,424,430 - $3,594,080
Ariz - $75,999,619; $78,024,219 - $2,024,600
Oregon - $73,911,738; $94,635,829 - $20,724,091

13 of these institutions reported basically the same number to each while 5 more had a discrepancy of less than 1 million dollars, which is chicken feed for these type of numbers in regard to these institutions.

6 institutions reported a discrepancy between 2 and 4 million dollars.

1 institution reported a discrepancy of just under 9 million dollars

While the remaining 5 institutions had a discrepancy of over 10 million dollars with the three most eye-popping ones being FSU with just over 18.5 million dollar discrepancy, Oregon with over a 20 million dollar discrepancy and Texas A&M with a whopping 40 million dollar discrepancy.

If I were a federal auditor, those are the three institutions whose books I would most like to review.

Cheers,
Neil

Sandman could be adjusting for nonrecurring items. I've seen analyses of prior years' data make those kinds of adjustments.

(12-27-2013 07:39 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(12-26-2013 04:19 PM)omniorange Wrote:  Here are some of the comparisons of the top 30 public institutions between Sandman's EADA numbers from 11-12 and the ones the USA Today reported for 11-12:

Texas - $163,295,114; $163,295,115 - same
OSU - $142,043,056; $142,043,057 - same
Mich - $128,750,370; $140,131,187 - $11,380,817
Alab - $124,129,127; $124,899,945 - $770,818
Florida - $120,267,106; $120,772,106 - same
LSU - $113,964,540; $114,787,786 - $823,246
PSU - $108,252,284; $108,252,281 - same
Okla - $106,456,616; $106,456,616 - same
Aub - $105,951,256; $105,951,251 - same
Tenn - $105,869,282; $102,884,286 - $2,984,996
Wisc - $101,490,339; $103,803,040 - $2,312,701
Ark - $99,757,483; $99,757,482 - same
Iowa - $97,415,941; $97,902,974 - $487,033
Georgia - $91,670,613; $91,670,613 - same
L'Ville - $87,840,504; $87,840,501 - same
USCe - $87,608,352; $87,608,352 - same
Kentucky - $85,632,716; $88,373,452 - $2,740,736
Okla St - $84,125,525; $87,270,598 - $3,145,073
Minn - $83,619,456; $83,619,526 - same
Wash - $82,594,783; $82,594,783 - same
Neb - $81,631,252; $81,631,252 - same
FSU - $81,444,039; $100,049,444 -$18,605,405
UVa - $81,321,219; $80,835,566 - $485,653
WVU - $80,019,885; $80,064,869 -$45,014
Kansas - $79,160,569; $70,228,913 - $8,931,656
TA&M - $79,026,849; $119,702,222 - $40,675,373
MSU - $79,019,535; $93,946,707 - $14,927,172
UNC - $78,830,350; $82,424,430 - $3,594,080
Ariz - $75,999,619; $78,024,219 - $2,024,600
Oregon - $73,911,738; $94,635,829 - $20,724,091

13 of these institutions reported basically the same number to each while 5 more had a discrepancy of less than 1 million dollars, which is chicken feed for these type of numbers in regard to these institutions.

6 institutions reported a discrepancy between 2 and 4 million dollars.

1 institution reported a discrepancy of just under 9 million dollars

While the remaining 5 institutions had a discrepancy of over 10 million dollars with the three most eye-popping ones being FSU with just over 18.5 million dollar discrepancy, Oregon with over a 20 million dollar discrepancy and Texas A&M with a whopping 40 million dollar discrepancy.

If I were a federal auditor, those are the three institutions whose books I would most like to review.

Cheers,
Neil

Sandman could be adjusting for nonrecurring items. I've seen analyses of prior years' data make those kinds of adjustments.

Doubt Sandman is adjusting anything. Though he doesn't credit it, the site where he got those figures were from the EADA site directly. Whatever additional source USA Today is using is where we'd find why most are reporting basically the exact figures they submitted to OPE versus those who are claiming more or less than that figure to USA Today.

Cheers,
Neil