(12-28-2013 12:27 AM)Overrated Wrote:  

(12-27-2013 08:44 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(12-27-2013 03:31 PM)Overrated Wrote:  Steve Logan was a second round draft pick. He was probably a little better than SK, but he was not the second coming by any means. He had some significant limitations, just as SK does.

Logan was a 2nd round pick because of his height. A lot of elite college players, football and basketball, just don't translate to the next level. Doesn't change the fact that they were dominant in college.

The thought of a 6'4 Logan has me drooling.

A great college player that doesn't translate to the NBA because of limitations kinda sounds like SK.

Also, Logan's athleticism was also a weakness. It wasn't just lack of height.

We all love SK and we want him to be one, but he has not yet been a great college player.

(12-28-2013 12:45 AM)cpawfan Wrote:  

(12-28-2013 12:27 AM)Overrated Wrote:  

(12-27-2013 08:44 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(12-27-2013 03:31 PM)Overrated Wrote:  Steve Logan was a second round draft pick. He was probably a little better than SK, but he was not the second coming by any means. He had some significant limitations, just as SK does.

Logan was a 2nd round pick because of his height. A lot of elite college players, football and basketball, just don't translate to the next level. Doesn't change the fact that they were dominant in college.

The thought of a 6'4 Logan has me drooling.

A great college player that doesn't translate to the NBA because of limitations kinda sounds like SK.

Also, Logan's athleticism was also a weakness. It wasn't just lack of height.

We all love SK and we want him to be one, but he has not yet been a great college player.

I think he's a great college player. Just not as good as Steve Logan. He's been the best scorer in the team for 2 years now. What else does he have to do?

(12-28-2013 12:49 AM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  

(12-28-2013 12:45 AM)cpawfan Wrote:  

(12-28-2013 12:27 AM)Overrated Wrote:  

(12-27-2013 08:44 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(12-27-2013 03:31 PM)Overrated Wrote:  Steve Logan was a second round draft pick. He was probably a little better than SK, but he was not the second coming by any means. He had some significant limitations, just as SK does.

Logan was a 2nd round pick because of his height. A lot of elite college players, football and basketball, just don't translate to the next level. Doesn't change the fact that they were dominant in college.

The thought of a 6'4 Logan has me drooling.

A great college player that doesn't translate to the NBA because of limitations kinda sounds like SK.

Also, Logan's athleticism was also a weakness. It wasn't just lack of height.

We all love SK and we want him to be one, but he has not yet been a great college player.

I think he's a great college player. Just not as good as Steve Logan. He's been the best scorer in the team for 2 years now. What else does he have to do?

For me, there is a big gap between good and great.

Do you consider Gorgui Dieng as a great college player? I don't and he was a more impactful college (1st Team All Big East and Big East DPOY) player than SK.

(12-27-2013 07:30 PM)subflea Wrote:  

(12-27-2013 04:28 PM)JFlight21 Wrote:  Here is are some more good videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6bUwRmRGPg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl-SKVtoJCo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3-ytUGi0AE

For those that think Cronin's teams are all athletes, they really pail in comparison to the athletes that Huggins' had. Jesus those teams had athletic freaks at every position.

There aren't many anywhere that come close to the athleticism of DerMarr Johnson. He could have been a great star in the NBA. He was never the same when he did come back after the 02-03 season. I think he is still playing ball overseas though.

Yep, he had all of the talent in the world, but he wasn't a typical Huggins' player. Those teams were filled with 'aggressive athletes', whereas Dermarr was more passive.

Incoming Gary Clark seems to be a prototypical Huggins' player as that type of athlete (as opposed to a Shaquille Thomas type). I have very high hopes for his long-term potential, once he rounds off the rough edges of his game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HguHG8qyJuc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZDNiSFiLwc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCbESEQq8ic (starts at 3:00)

(12-28-2013 12:27 AM)Overrated Wrote:  We all love SK and we want him to be one, but he has not yet been a great college player.

Exactly. Good, not great.

Logan was elite.

(12-28-2013 12:49 AM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  I think he's a great college player. Just not as good as Steve Logan. He's been the best scorer in the team for 2 years now. What else does he have to do?

Total points and PPG doesn't equate to greatness, there's more to the game than stats. When you don't have many scoring options on a team, being the best scorer doesn't mean much. Does anyone think Deonta Vaughn was anywhere close to great? Hell no.

I can only go back as far as the Shoemaker Center opening but the top 3 are Kenyon, Danny, and Logan. I'd actually rank Danny #1, Kenyon #2, and Logan #3. All were conference players of the year and first team all americans. It would be tough but not impossible for SK to join the as a conference player of the year but not impossible. SK has had a better career than anyone else but he's going to have to have a really special senior year to even start debating being on Logan's level.

(12-28-2013 06:12 AM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(12-28-2013 12:49 AM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  I think he's a great college player. Just not as good as Steve Logan. He's been the best scorer in the team for 2 years now. What else does he have to do?

Total points and PPG doesn't equate to greatness, there's more to the game than stats. When you don't have many scoring options on a team, being the best scorer doesn't mean much. Does anyone think Deonta Vaughn was anywhere close to great? Hell no.

I know Deonta gets a lot of flack, but I think that is mostly do to his underwhelming junior and senor years. However, Deonta Vaughn as a sophomore was about as close to a "great player" as Mick has had. Would anyone else agree with that??

Averaged over 17 a game while shooting 40% from three. He averaged over 4 assists a game. He CARRIED a very weak team to wins over Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse and Villanova. He had a 34 point game against that loaded Connecticut squad. He had a three game stretch in conference play where he scored 24, 29 and 25 while shooting over 50% in each game. He put on a show in the Big East tournament when he put up 30 against Pittsburgh. He was named to first team all big east, the only player other than Hicks to earn that honor at UC.

He was a stud that year and I think that was part of the reason Gates' freshman and sophomore year's were so disappointing, as we thought Vaughn would continue his stellar play.

IF SK finishes 2nd in career scoring, is AAC player of the year, the Bearcats make a sweet 16 or elite 8 run, and he's a 1st round NBA pick, I think over time people will compare him favorably to Logan.

I agree but of those the only one likely to occur is the 2nd in career scoring. Hope they all happen and were debating this for years to come.

(12-28-2013 10:41 AM)JFlight21 Wrote:  

(12-28-2013 06:12 AM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(12-28-2013 12:49 AM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  I think he's a great college player. Just not as good as Steve Logan. He's been the best scorer in the team for 2 years now. What else does he have to do?

Total points and PPG doesn't equate to greatness, there's more to the game than stats. When you don't have many scoring options on a team, being the best scorer doesn't mean much. Does anyone think Deonta Vaughn was anywhere close to great? Hell no.

I know Deonta gets a lot of flack, but I think that is mostly do to his underwhelming junior and senor years. However, Deonta Vaughn as a sophomore was about as close to a "great player" as Mick has had. Would anyone else agree with that??

Averaged over 17 a game while shooting 40% from three. He averaged over 4 assists a game. He CARRIED a very weak team to wins over Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse and Villanova. He had a 34 point game against that loaded Connecticut squad. He had a three game stretch in conference play where he scored 24, 29 and 25 while shooting over 50% in each game. He put on a show in the Big East tournament when he put up 30 against Pittsburgh. He was named to first team all big east, the only player other than Hicks to earn that honor at UC.

He was a stud that year and I think that was part of the reason Gates' freshman and sophomore year's were so disappointing, as we thought Vaughn would continue his stellar play.

Agreed. Also I think the greatness of that year is why some people soured so hard on him. For whatever reason he wasn't able to follow up on that incredible year.

As far as being great, SK will more than likely break the 2000 pt barrier and be the alltime 2nd leading scorer at UC. I think that's pretty great. Right now i think he leads the AAC in scoring average. Should easily end up as 1st team all AAC and he probably has a shot at conference POY.

Some of you guys are being harsh and not recognizing what a monumental hurdle that 2000 pt. plateau is. Or i guess points just grow on trees for you guys.

Once again, I'm not saying he's as good as Logan, but he needs to be in the conversation about UC alltime greats if he does what he is on pace to this year.

SK is having a horrible game today, at least on the offensive end.

He does have a sweet stroke from the free throw line, however. Looks like Mick had a talk with him at halftime.

(12-27-2013 04:28 PM)JFlight21 Wrote:  Here is are some more good videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6bUwRmRGPg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl-SKVtoJCo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3-ytUGi0AE

For those that think Cronin's teams are all athletes, they really pail in comparison to the athletes that Huggins' had. Jesus those teams had athletic freaks at every position.

Thanks for those links. I purposely try to not go "back there". Like you and others, I consistently hear "athletes"...."this guy is an athlete". I remember what it was like to have athletes at UC. I am not fooled by talk. Just win.

(12-28-2013 01:16 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  SK is having a horrible game today, at least on the offensive end.

He does have a sweet stroke from the free throw line, however. Looks like Mick had a talk with him at halftime.

21 pts. Just terrible.

SK had a very good second half of driving towards the hoop, getting fouled and nailing the free throws to help us put that game away.

His first half involved a lot of him playing by himself against the Nebraska defense, taking poor shots and missing.

One thing though, looking back I never noticed him getting beat on defense, so he must have played an important part in our solid defense for the game.