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southernmiss4ever Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Question for USM fans
(12-16-2013 11:49 AM)EagleX Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 11:31 AM)southernmiss4ever Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 03:00 AM)EagNBran Wrote:  The reason Anderson wasn't chosen was because when Fedora left, some people felt offended that someone would leave us, so they wanted someone who didn't see us as a stepping stone, but someone who saw us as the destination. We see what that got us.

But yet, USM fans and administration knew that's EXACTLY what we were getting with Fedora, and then got pissed when it came to fruition.

I never really understood the willingness to happily rent a coach for 3 or 4 years, and I never really understood the insistence on being happy about it when he bailed -- "Good luck, Larry, and thanks for everything". but we were totally spoiled by a couple of decades of jeff bower.

but apparently, the logic goes like this; coaches are willing to come here because it was a perennial winner, and the perfect place to shine up your resume. EJ sorta fixed that. I guess we should all be glad monk has a decent memory.

I don't want any head coach that is content with being at a C-USA program for over a decade. Sorry, that shows that he isn't hungry, IMO.

Fedora knew that to get a better job, he had to prove himself at USM. Win-win for both people involved.

We saw what happens when you hire someone that "wants this to be my last job". No urgency. No give a damn, et al.
12-16-2013 12:28 PM
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USM@FTL Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Question for USM fans
Bower was done. End of story.

Somewhere down the line we'll hire another USM grad and we can hope he'll have the same or better level of success.
12-16-2013 12:40 PM
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EagleX Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Question for USM fans
(12-16-2013 12:28 PM)southernmiss4ever Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 11:49 AM)EagleX Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 11:31 AM)southernmiss4ever Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 03:00 AM)EagNBran Wrote:  The reason Anderson wasn't chosen was because when Fedora left, some people felt offended that someone would leave us, so they wanted someone who didn't see us as a stepping stone, but someone who saw us as the destination. We see what that got us.

But yet, USM fans and administration knew that's EXACTLY what we were getting with Fedora, and then got pissed when it came to fruition.

I never really understood the willingness to happily rent a coach for 3 or 4 years, and I never really understood the insistence on being happy about it when he bailed -- "Good luck, Larry, and thanks for everything". but we were totally spoiled by a couple of decades of jeff bower.

but apparently, the logic goes like this; coaches are willing to come here because it was a perennial winner, and the perfect place to shine up your resume. EJ sorta fixed that. I guess we should all be glad monk has a decent memory.

I don't want any head coach that is content with being at a C-USA program for over a decade. Sorry, that shows that he isn't hungry, IMO.

Fedora knew that to get a better job, he had to prove himself at USM. Win-win for both people involved.

We saw what happens when you hire someone that "wants this to be my last job". No urgency. No give a damn, et al.

that is a wonderful reason to want to improve the conference* or change conferences, but a really crappy reason to be willing to happily rent a coach.

*which actually happened before aresco apparently drugged enough c-usa ADs and presidents and convinced them to commit suicide.
12-16-2013 12:40 PM
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Up2stuff Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Question for USM fans
(12-16-2013 11:49 AM)EagleX Wrote:  I never really understood the willingness to happily rent a coach for 3 or 4 years, and I never really understood the insistence on being happy about it when he bailed -- "Good luck, Larry, and thanks for everything". but we were totally spoiled by a couple of decades of jeff bower.

Maybe I can help explain, since I am one of those fans.

When you hire a coach, it's just a fact of life that he will probably move on at some point. Think about it - LSU couldn't even keep Saban from moving on at that point of his life, Lousiville has lost coaches over the years, University of Arkansas, and many others. It's not losing the coach that matters - it's the hiring of the next. There are a lot of great unknown coaches and it's the job of the administration to find them. Not to mention a new unknown coach can bring new excitement to a stale program.

Larry Fedora did what he was asked to do. Get us back to the top of CUSA and bring an exciting offense that would bring in more fans. 6 or 7 wins a season will get you to a bowl game, but it doesn't take a program to a higher level. Teams in CUSA that were having the most success were the teams that had gone to the spread, faster paced (Houston, Tulsa especially come to mind). The problem was not that Fedora left, the problem was that the administration blew it with the follow-up hire and did not have too. Look at Boise, Arkansas State, and I'm sure there are other examples.

When a coach does choose to stay put, things eventually become stale anyway. And as much as I liked and appreciated Jeff, I think that was the case. We needed a change. The same thing even happened at Texas - and they had 8 wins this season. Virginia Tech may be next. It happened at Florida State with Bowden.

So personally, I'd much rather be looking for a new coach every 4 years. Every year like Arkansas State may be a bit much, but it does mean they are winning. I do not understand why fans are so concerned about keeping the same coach. In fact, if you do, odds are you are winning enough to not fire the coach, but not enough for anyone else to really want him either.

04-cheers
12-16-2013 12:41 PM
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shiftyeagle Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Question for USM fans
How many times can we possibly have the same conversation in a span of about 3 months?
12-16-2013 12:42 PM
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EagleX Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Question for USM fans
(12-16-2013 12:42 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  How many times can we possibly have the same conversation in a span of about 3 months?

in our general defense, it started out as a different conversation, but sheer inertia turned it into the same conversation. so, the answer to your question is, "it depends on how creative we are".
12-16-2013 12:47 PM
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EagleX Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Question for USM fans
(12-16-2013 12:41 PM)Up2stuff Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 11:49 AM)EagleX Wrote:  I never really understood the willingness to happily rent a coach for 3 or 4 years, and I never really understood the insistence on being happy about it when he bailed -- "Good luck, Larry, and thanks for everything". but we were totally spoiled by a couple of decades of jeff bower.

Maybe I can help explain, since I am one of those fans.

When you hire a coach, it's just a fact of life that he will probably move on at some point. Think about it - LSU couldn't even keep Saban from moving on at that point of his life, Lousiville has lost coaches over the years, University of Arkansas, and many others. It's not losing the coach that matters - it's the hiring of the next. There are a lot of great unknown coaches and it's the job of the administration to find them. Not to mention a new unknown coach can bring new excitement to a stale program.

Larry Fedora did what he was asked to do. Get us back to the top of CUSA and bring an exciting offense that would bring in more fans. 6 or 7 wins a season will get you to a bowl game, but it doesn't take a program to a higher level. Teams in CUSA that were having the most success were the teams that had gone to the spread, faster paced (Houston, Tulsa especially come to mind). The problem was not that Fedora left, the problem was that the administration blew it with the follow-up hire and did not have too. Look at Boise, Arkansas State, and I'm sure there are other examples.

When a coach does choose to stay put, things eventually become stale anyway. And as much as I liked and appreciated Jeff, I think that was the case. We needed a change. The same thing even happened at Texas - and they had 8 wins this season. Virginia Tech may be next. It happened at Florida State with Bowden.

So personally, I'd much rather be looking for a new coach every 4 years. Every year like Arkansas State may be a bit much, but it does mean they are winning. I do not understand why fans are so concerned about keeping the same coach. In fact, if you do, odds are you are winning enough to not fire the coach, but not enough for anyone else to really want him either.

04-cheers

people forget (or ignore) the other obvious conclusion about a team that loses it's coach to another program every few years; yes, they are winning, but they aren't rising in national prominence, either.

and isn't that the whole point of winning in the first place?
12-16-2013 12:56 PM
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AndreWhere Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Question for USM fans
(12-16-2013 12:40 PM)EagleX Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 12:28 PM)southernmiss4ever Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 11:49 AM)EagleX Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 11:31 AM)southernmiss4ever Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 03:00 AM)EagNBran Wrote:  The reason Anderson wasn't chosen was because when Fedora left, some people felt offended that someone would leave us, so they wanted someone who didn't see us as a stepping stone, but someone who saw us as the destination. We see what that got us.

But yet, USM fans and administration knew that's EXACTLY what we were getting with Fedora, and then got pissed when it came to fruition.

I never really understood the willingness to happily rent a coach for 3 or 4 years, and I never really understood the insistence on being happy about it when he bailed -- "Good luck, Larry, and thanks for everything". but we were totally spoiled by a couple of decades of jeff bower.

but apparently, the logic goes like this; coaches are willing to come here because it was a perennial winner, and the perfect place to shine up your resume. EJ sorta fixed that. I guess we should all be glad monk has a decent memory.

I don't want any head coach that is content with being at a C-USA program for over a decade. Sorry, that shows that he isn't hungry, IMO.

Fedora knew that to get a better job, he had to prove himself at USM. Win-win for both people involved.

We saw what happens when you hire someone that "wants this to be my last job". No urgency. No give a damn, et al.

that is a wonderful reason to want to improve the conference* or change conferences, but a really crappy reason to be willing to happily rent a coach.

*which actually happened before aresco apparently drugged enough c-usa ADs and presidents and convinced them to commit suicide.

Conferences don't improve, or really even have much of an identity beyond the constituent schools. USM fans need to learn that. While we were sitting around waiting for CUSA to add enough TCUs / Tulsas / ECUs to become the next football major, the exact opposite happened. The only reason CUSA seemed to improve, briefly, was that the WAC was getting worse faster than we were.

If it were up to me, we'd take down all our CUSA banners. Celebrate the victories, but not the affiliation.

A lot of people though Blake was a slam dunk hire after EJ. This has only grown more true since then. I don't agree. To be brutally honest, he looks too young to me. BA exacerbated this problem by not wearing real big boy pants to his interview.

If I were Fedora, I think I'd take my protégé shopping: neck tie, suit... the whole deal. Then, we'd go to the hair care aisle, but not for that trademark Larry Fedora hair gel. Rather, I'd get BA some Just For Men or some Grecian Formula to cover up the blonde. You don't get anywhere in life as a man if you've got hair like Vanna White. Even Ron Howard wears a hat / is bald.

Unless and until BA does these things, everyone who interviews him will be thinking "do I want Opie coaching my football team? Or, do I need to hold out for Sheriff Andy?"

The real "slam dunk" for USM will be whoever's worth what we paid Fedora. It won't be Monken at 80% of Fedora's salary, or Ellis Johnson at 80% of Fedora's salary, or BA at 80% of Fedora's salary. That's what Jeff Hammond, or whoever was giving him orders, did not realize / consider / admit.
12-16-2013 02:02 PM
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Up2stuff Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Question for USM fans
(12-16-2013 12:56 PM)EagleX Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 12:41 PM)Up2stuff Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 11:49 AM)EagleX Wrote:  I never really understood the willingness to happily rent a coach for 3 or 4 years, and I never really understood the insistence on being happy about it when he bailed -- "Good luck, Larry, and thanks for everything". but we were totally spoiled by a couple of decades of jeff bower.

Maybe I can help explain, since I am one of those fans.

When you hire a coach, it's just a fact of life that he will probably move on at some point. Think about it - LSU couldn't even keep Saban from moving on at that point of his life, Lousiville has lost coaches over the years, University of Arkansas, and many others. It's not losing the coach that matters - it's the hiring of the next. There are a lot of great unknown coaches and it's the job of the administration to find them. Not to mention a new unknown coach can bring new excitement to a stale program.

Larry Fedora did what he was asked to do. Get us back to the top of CUSA and bring an exciting offense that would bring in more fans. 6 or 7 wins a season will get you to a bowl game, but it doesn't take a program to a higher level. Teams in CUSA that were having the most success were the teams that had gone to the spread, faster paced (Houston, Tulsa especially come to mind). The problem was not that Fedora left, the problem was that the administration blew it with the follow-up hire and did not have too. Look at Boise, Arkansas State, and I'm sure there are other examples.

When a coach does choose to stay put, things eventually become stale anyway. And as much as I liked and appreciated Jeff, I think that was the case. We needed a change. The same thing even happened at Texas - and they had 8 wins this season. Virginia Tech may be next. It happened at Florida State with Bowden.

So personally, I'd much rather be looking for a new coach every 4 years. Every year like Arkansas State may be a bit much, but it does mean they are winning. I do not understand why fans are so concerned about keeping the same coach. In fact, if you do, odds are you are winning enough to not fire the coach, but not enough for anyone else to really want him either.

04-cheers

people forget (or ignore) the other obvious conclusion about a team that loses it's coach to another program every few years; yes, they are winning, but they aren't rising in national prominence, either.

and isn't that the whole point of winning in the first place?

What? Is this true because you believe it? Sorry, doesn't wash.... Tell that to Louisville, Boise, Utah, and I'm sure others.

And by the way, you may be beating your own point. I mean, after all, we had the same coach for 17 (or whatever) years. Exactly how far did we rise in national prominence? Not really that far. No further than when we beat an undefeated Houston in the conference championship game.

Rising in national prominence has more to do with big wins and 10 or 11 win seasons than it does with who the coach is or how many times the coach is changed. Give me an undefeated season with a few wins against the big boys with several more 10+ win season with some big wins and I couldn't care less who coaches them. Heck, I'd even throw in a couple of years not even going to a bowl that can be called building years. You don't have to have the same coach to do that, just the right coach, and no one would give a fip who the coach was either.
(This post was last modified: 12-16-2013 02:31 PM by Up2stuff.)
12-16-2013 02:18 PM
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AndreWhere Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Question for USM fans
Up2Stuff, when we hired Fedora, it seemed like we had gotten the message. I really wonder what happened to Martha Saunders between the Bower firing and the Johnson hire. All I can figure is that the AD made the decision in both cases. Whatever happened, I view everything that's happened since that UH game as a complete failure to follow the road we started down when we fired Bower. We lost any sense of a unified goal or plan at that point.
12-16-2013 03:04 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Question for USM fans
Shifty is right....old fodder

One can make a variety of arguments trying to validate one's personal position....they are all off the mark because they aren't relevant to the real issue.

Unless we increase our budget by an extremely large amount it won't matter who the coach is or how long he stays.

Politics is about MONEY and large amounts of it.

Boys, this is all about POLITICS.

The ship has long since sailed and USM politics sat around in a circle jerk not paying attention for the last 20 years.
12-16-2013 03:13 PM
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AndreWhere Offline
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RE: Question for USM fans
(12-16-2013 03:13 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  Shifty is right....old fodder

One can make a variety of arguments trying to validate one's personal position....they are all off the mark because they aren't relevant to the real issue.

Unless we increase our budget by an extremely large amount it won't matter who the coach is or how long he stays.

Politics is about MONEY and large amounts of it.

Boys, this is all about POLITICS.

The ship has long since sailed and USM politics sat around in a circle jerk not paying attention for the last 20 years.

It's not as if this barricade blocks the only road.

It's not as if you're all alone in wanting to explode.
12-16-2013 03:40 PM
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stinkfist Online
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Post: #33
RE: Question for USM fans
(12-16-2013 03:40 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 03:13 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  Shifty is right....old fodder

One can make a variety of arguments trying to validate one's personal position....they are all off the mark because they aren't relevant to the real issue.

Unless we increase our budget by an extremely large amount it won't matter who the coach is or how long he stays.

Politics is about MONEY and large amounts of it.

Boys, this is all about POLITICS.

The ship has long since sailed and USM politics sat around in a circle jerk not paying attention for the last 20 years.

It's not as if this barricade blocks the only road.

It's not as if you're all alone in wanting to explode.

realism is a tough pill to dislodge, eh?
12-16-2013 03:42 PM
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AndreWhere Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Question for USM fans
(12-16-2013 03:42 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 03:40 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 03:13 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  Shifty is right....old fodder

One can make a variety of arguments trying to validate one's personal position....they are all off the mark because they aren't relevant to the real issue.

Unless we increase our budget by an extremely large amount it won't matter who the coach is or how long he stays.

Politics is about MONEY and large amounts of it.

Boys, this is all about POLITICS.

The ship has long since sailed and USM politics sat around in a circle jerk not paying attention for the last 20 years.

It's not as if this barricade blocks the only road.

It's not as if you're all alone in wanting to explode.

realism is a tough pill to dislodge, eh?
We've just gotta turn around and walk the razor's edge. The mirror always lies. Life is a diamond you turn into dust.
12-16-2013 04:15 PM
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EagleX Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Question for USM fans
(12-16-2013 02:18 PM)Up2stuff Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 12:56 PM)EagleX Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 12:41 PM)Up2stuff Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 11:49 AM)EagleX Wrote:  I never really understood the willingness to happily rent a coach for 3 or 4 years, and I never really understood the insistence on being happy about it when he bailed -- "Good luck, Larry, and thanks for everything". but we were totally spoiled by a couple of decades of jeff bower.

Maybe I can help explain, since I am one of those fans.

When you hire a coach, it's just a fact of life that he will probably move on at some point. Think about it - LSU couldn't even keep Saban from moving on at that point of his life, Lousiville has lost coaches over the years, University of Arkansas, and many others. It's not losing the coach that matters - it's the hiring of the next. There are a lot of great unknown coaches and it's the job of the administration to find them. Not to mention a new unknown coach can bring new excitement to a stale program.

Larry Fedora did what he was asked to do. Get us back to the top of CUSA and bring an exciting offense that would bring in more fans. 6 or 7 wins a season will get you to a bowl game, but it doesn't take a program to a higher level. Teams in CUSA that were having the most success were the teams that had gone to the spread, faster paced (Houston, Tulsa especially come to mind). The problem was not that Fedora left, the problem was that the administration blew it with the follow-up hire and did not have too. Look at Boise, Arkansas State, and I'm sure there are other examples.

When a coach does choose to stay put, things eventually become stale anyway. And as much as I liked and appreciated Jeff, I think that was the case. We needed a change. The same thing even happened at Texas - and they had 8 wins this season. Virginia Tech may be next. It happened at Florida State with Bowden.

So personally, I'd much rather be looking for a new coach every 4 years. Every year like Arkansas State may be a bit much, but it does mean they are winning. I do not understand why fans are so concerned about keeping the same coach. In fact, if you do, odds are you are winning enough to not fire the coach, but not enough for anyone else to really want him either.

04-cheers

people forget (or ignore) the other obvious conclusion about a team that loses it's coach to another program every few years; yes, they are winning, but they aren't rising in national prominence, either.

and isn't that the whole point of winning in the first place?

What? Is this true because you believe it? Sorry, doesn't wash.... Tell that to Louisville, Boise, Utah, and I'm sure others.

And by the way, you may be beating your own point. I mean, after all, we had the same coach for 17 (or whatever) years. Exactly how far did we rise in national prominence? Not really that far. No further than when we beat an undefeated Houston in the conference championship game.

Rising in national prominence has more to do with big wins and 10 or 11 win seasons than it does with who the coach is or how many times the coach is changed. Give me an undefeated season with a few wins against the big boys with several more 10+ win season with some big wins and I couldn't care less who coaches them. Heck, I'd even throw in a couple of years not even going to a bowl that can be called building years. You don't have to have the same coach to do that, just the right coach, and no one would give a fip who the coach was either.

You either aren't reading or you aren't thinking. Or both.
12-16-2013 10:23 PM
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AndreWhere Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Question for USM fans
Even LSU loses coaches. They lost Saban, and Les Miles has played footsie with Michigan. The goal of keeping a coach long-term is just misguided. The goal has to be to first generate success, of the 11-12 win variety, and then use it as a springboard to better things (in terms of budget and affiliation). Unfortunately, Aunt Martha and Giannini turned out to be incapable of doing this second part.

I really point to laziness: too lazy to fund a $1,000,000 per year salary instead of the $800,00 that Richard and Martha were able to find easily, too lazy to admit they needed to be hiring someone every 3-5 years (and looking for a quick fix in Ellis Johnson), too lazy to expand our facilities even at the most critical juncture.

Richard and Martha were too lazy to do their jobs. If they'd sent me something asking for money for a capital improvement plan, I would have sent them money. Can't help but think I'm not the only one who can say that, and there are probably some good coaches and conference administrators in that number.

(None of the this is to say that BA was the man... I said that I don't think he was. The point is that hiring coaches every 5 years or so is an AD's job, and a good AD does it.)
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2013 09:31 AM by AndreWhere.)
12-17-2013 09:28 AM
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southernmiss4ever Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Question for USM fans
(12-16-2013 12:40 PM)USM@FTL Wrote:  Somewhere down the line we'll hire another USM grad and we can hope he'll have the same or better level of success.

I hope not.

That will only cause more division within the fan base.

That was the whole thing with Bower, he was "one of us". Too many fans had personal relationships and interests in hand when it came to Bower, and that's why so many USM fans were angry and vowed to not support Fedora and whatnot.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2013 12:19 PM by southernmiss4ever.)
12-17-2013 12:17 PM
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AndreWhere Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Question for USM fans
(12-17-2013 12:17 PM)southernmiss4ever Wrote:  
(12-16-2013 12:40 PM)USM@FTL Wrote:  Somewhere down the line we'll hire another USM grad and we can hope he'll have the same or better level of success.

I hope not.

That will only cause more division within the fan base.

That was the whole thing with Bower, he was "one of us". Too many fans had personal relationships and interests in hand when it came to Bower, and that's why so many USM fans were angry and vowed to not support Fedora and whatnot.
Yup. There's a whole contingent of us who basically want to turn USM football into an overgrown version of the Sumrall Bobcats Booster Club. They don't want a great university, they want THEIR university. They don't want USM to be the next FSU or Miami, because that would endanger their own king-of-the-anthill status.
12-17-2013 04:37 PM
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cyc46 Offline
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Post: #39
Re: Question for USM fans
A little truth in a lot of these posts. Hopefully we never have another USM grad as coach or some one who feels USM is their destination.

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12-17-2013 08:07 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Question for USM fans
I think ASU is going to announce Anderson tomorrow. That's what my gut says.
12-17-2013 10:49 PM
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