Could UMass become a legitimate canditate for a spot in the Big East? The program is taking on a tough early schedule and doing well. They are clearly making a push to be a legitimate national player. http://espn.go.com/boston/story/_/id/100...imate-buzz

They would provide a sixth eastern school from a large state - but does their FBS football team eliminate them from consideration?

(12-06-2013 03:24 PM)orangefan Wrote:  Could UMass become a legitimate canditate for a spot in the Big East? The program is taking on a tough early schedule and doing well. They are clearly making a push to be a legitimate national player. http://espn.go.com/boston/story/_/id/100...imate-buzz

They would provide a sixth eastern school from a large state - or does their FBS football team eliminate them from consideration?

FBS big public school - no gracias.

UMass to me is interesting. If they moved their fb back to FCS(which I think is possible)- they would be a very interesting option.

(12-06-2013 03:45 PM)stever20 Wrote:  UMass to me is interesting. If they moved their fb back to FCS(which I think is possible)- they would be a very interesting option.

If they didn't upgrade their Fb they would already be in the league.

(12-06-2013 09:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 03:45 PM)stever20 Wrote:  UMass to me is interesting. If they moved their fb back to FCS(which I think is possible)- they would be a very interesting option.

If they didn't upgrade their Fb they would already be in the league.

Interesting observation. Truly.

So, if UMass would already be in the league if not for the inconvenient presence of football, I'm wondering why VCU - with no such football inconvenience - isn't already in the league?

Just thinking out loud here . . .

(12-06-2013 10:35 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 09:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 03:45 PM)stever20 Wrote:  UMass to me is interesting. If they moved their fb back to FCS(which I think is possible)- they would be a very interesting option.

If they didn't upgrade their Fb they would already be in the league.

Interesting observation. Truly.

So, if UMass would already be in the league if not for the inconvenient presence of football, I'm wondering why VCU - with no such football inconvenience - isn't already in the league?

Just thinking out loud here . . .

I'd say for one, location. You would have a tight- not going to say division- but maybe core of 6 eastern schools. Georgetown, Nova, Seton Hall, St John's, Providence, UMass.

(12-07-2013 12:43 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 10:35 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 09:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 03:45 PM)stever20 Wrote:  UMass to me is interesting. If they moved their fb back to FCS(which I think is possible)- they would be a very interesting option.

If they didn't upgrade their Fb they would already be in the league.

Interesting observation. Truly.

So, if UMass would already be in the league if not for the inconvenient presence of football, I'm wondering why VCU - with no such football inconvenience - isn't already in the league?

Just thinking out loud here . . .

I'd say for one, location. You would have a tight- not going to say division- but maybe core of 6 eastern schools. Georgetown, Nova, Seton Hall, St John's, Providence, UMass.

That's it? Because VCU extends the footprint 100 miles down I-95 to Richmond?

how about because there is no boston presence while georgetown is resisting VCU?

obvious disclaimer: this in no way implies UMass or VCU 1) owns their market, 2) is noticed in their market, 3) is a good institutional fit 4) has performed well in the distant or recent past or will in the future

what would be more desirable for the presidents of the BE? Getting their school exposure in Richmond or in Boston?

(12-07-2013 05:26 PM)trephin Wrote:  how about because there is no boston presence while georgetown is resisting VCU?

obvious disclaimer: this in no way implies UMass or VCU 1) owns their market, 2) is noticed in their market, 3) is a good institutional fit 4) has performed well in the distant or recent past or will in the future

Yes, UMass has a presence in Boston. But both of these schools have statewide profiles. It's the entire state that is the true market for each of them, and it's Virginia that's the bigger state and the bigger market.

But the point of my comment was not to create a competition between the two. Football is the obvious reason why UMass doesn't fit. My point was that if UMass would already be in if not for football, then why isn't VCU on the fast track for membership since they don't have football and are similar to UMass in almost every other way . . . Except that they have a better basketball program.

(12-07-2013 06:11 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  what would be more desirable for the presidents of the BE? Getting their school exposure in Richmond or in Boston?

Since UMass is in Amherst at the opposite end of the state from Boston, the only exposure that UMass is bringing in Boston is on TV. Similarly, VCU would bring TV exposure throughout the state, not just in Richmond.

so which exposure would I rather have? I'll take the state with a population of 8 million over the one with 6.6 million. That would be Virginia.

(12-07-2013 06:42 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 06:11 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  what would be more desirable for the presidents of the BE? Getting their school exposure in Richmond or in Boston?

Since UMass is in Amherst at the opposite end of the state from Boston, the only exposure that UMass is bringing in Boston is on TV. Similarly, VCU would bring TV exposure throughout the state, not just in Richmond.

so which exposure would I rather have? I'll take the state with a population of 8 million over the one with 6.6 million. That would be Virginia.

Well thats just your opinion on the matter. I also wonder how you come to the conclusion that VCU carries it's whole state?

(12-07-2013 06:38 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 05:26 PM)trephin Wrote:  how about because there is no boston presence while georgetown is resisting VCU?

obvious disclaimer: this in no way implies UMass or VCU 1) owns their market, 2) is noticed in their market, 3) is a good institutional fit 4) has performed well in the distant or recent past or will in the future

Yes, UMass has a presence in Boston. But both of these schools have statewide profiles. It's the entire state that is the true market for each of them, and it's Virginia that's the bigger state and the bigger market.

But the point of my comment was not to create a competition between the two. Football is the obvious reason why UMass doesn't fit. My point was that if UMass would already be in if not for football, then why isn't VCU on the fast track for membership since they don't have football and are similar to UMass in almost every other way . . . Except that they have a better basketball program.

I understood your point. I provided a plausible answer to why someone would think UMass would be a member if not for football rather than VCU - location/market. You think the comparison is apples to apples. I'm saying that to someone else - likely more than a few people - it's apples to oranges. I know where UMass main is located. Boston is a pro sports town and I don't think any school located in Boston wins the scraps of market / exposure / allegiance that may be left over. So potentially UMass Amherst has as likely a claim as BC to the DMA. It's run with Camby and Roe certainly wasn't ignored. And if you want to say statewide following... apples to oranges... at least UMass can claim to be the state flagship, while VCU cannot.

(12-07-2013 10:44 PM)trephin Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 06:38 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 05:26 PM)trephin Wrote:  how about because there is no boston presence while georgetown is resisting VCU?

obvious disclaimer: this in no way implies UMass or VCU 1) owns their market, 2) is noticed in their market, 3) is a good institutional fit 4) has performed well in the distant or recent past or will in the future

Yes, UMass has a presence in Boston. But both of these schools have statewide profiles. It's the entire state that is the true market for each of them, and it's Virginia that's the bigger state and the bigger market.

But the point of my comment was not to create a competition between the two. Football is the obvious reason why UMass doesn't fit. My point was that if UMass would already be in if not for football, then why isn't VCU on the fast track for membership since they don't have football and are similar to UMass in almost every other way . . . Except that they have a better basketball program.

I understood your point. I provided a plausible answer to why someone would think UMass would be a member if not for football rather than VCU - location/market. You think the comparison is apples to apples. I'm saying that to someone else - likely more than a few people - it's apples to oranges. I know where UMass main is located. Boston is a pro sports town and I don't think any school located in Boston wins the scraps of market / exposure / allegiance that may be left over. So potentially UMass Amherst has as likely a claim as BC to the DMA. It's run with Camby and Roe certainly wasn't ignored. And if you want to say statewide following... apples to oranges... at least UMass can claim to be the state flagship, while VCU cannot.

But that's not the question I asked. Here's what I said:

"If UMass would be in already if not for football, why isn't VCU already in?"

My point was not a comparison of UMass and VCU. I'd be very happy to have UMass in. I'm not arguing pro or com on that comparison.

My point is that VCU has the same profile as UMass without the impediment to admission of football. So, why isn't VCU in? Even if UMass would be better in some ways, VCU would still be very good and would fill much the same niche as UMass.

In the minds of some, they do NOT have the same profile simply because of location / market. Stever was the one who made the original post about UMass being in so pardon me for guessing what he thinks on this but I suspect he doesn't think VCU carries the entire state. Therefore UMass - to him - would be in because they have a better market (overcoming on court performance and other concerns) while VCUs market does not overcome the concerns about their candidacy and likely georgetown's objections.

(12-07-2013 06:42 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 06:11 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  what would be more desirable for the presidents of the BE? Getting their school exposure in Richmond or in Boston?

Since UMass is in Amherst at the opposite end of the state from Boston, the only exposure that UMass is bringing in Boston is on TV. Similarly, VCU would bring TV exposure throughout the state, not just in Richmond.

so which exposure would I rather have? I'll take the state with a population of 8 million over the one with 6.6 million. That would be Virginia.

Im not advocating UMass,(in fact imo vcu is probably a better choice at this point) but why would VCU bring all of Virginia but UMass wouldnt bring all of Massachusetts (i realize Mass is more of a pro sport team state)
Maybe its my northern bias but i would think that the boston market is more valuable than central.southern virginia in the eyes of network executives and college presidents
Putting tv aside and focusing on potential "customers" ie future students, are the current BE schools more likley to find more candidates in boston/springfield/worcester or in richmond/norfolk/charlottesville?
i doubt umass is even a candidate but i understand how they could be

isnt there an anti public school stigma that already exists within the BE?

i think that alone explains VCU

(12-08-2013 03:12 AM)john01992 Wrote:  isnt there an anti public school stigma that already exists within the BE?

i think that alone explains VCU

Nope. There is a desire not to have any fbs (or those that may aspire to be fbs) fb sentiment but its not an anti public school stigma.

Simply put the BE doesnt want to invest in a school that is a flight risk. (public or private) Although I think they might be tempted to make an exception, if on the less than 1% chance ND and BC had a FB arrangement with some other conference and wanted to put the rest of their sports in the BE

(12-07-2013 11:19 PM)trephin Wrote:  In the minds of some, they do NOT have the same profile simply because of location / market. Stever was the one who made the original post about UMass being in so pardon me for guessing what he thinks on this but I suspect he doesn't think VCU carries the entire state. Therefore UMass - to him - would be in because they have a better market (overcoming on court performance and other concerns) while VCUs market does not overcome the concerns about their candidacy and likely georgetown's objections.

I don't think the issue is whether anyone carries the entire state. It's whether a school has a statewide profile, i.e. draws their student body from across the entire state and thereby has a presence statewide. After that it's whether the school in combination with the conference can draw ratings across the state. At that point it's about capitolizing on opportunity.

Neither UMass nor VCU are local commuter schools. Both have followings across the state. VCU's central location in Virginia is particularly strategic. Both have instate competition - UMass from BC and pro sports (Celtics), VCU from UVA and VA Tech. So, neither carries it's state but both create the opportunity for statewide interest and a statewide TV contract. In VCU's favor is that they are a better basketball program at this point and have been for some time as wel as the fact that the population of Virginia is 25% larger than the population of Virginia.

(12-08-2013 01:14 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 06:42 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 06:11 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  what would be more desirable for the presidents of the BE? Getting their school exposure in Richmond or in Boston?

Since UMass is in Amherst at the opposite end of the state from Boston, the only exposure that UMass is bringing in Boston is on TV. Similarly, VCU would bring TV exposure throughout the state, not just in Richmond.

so which exposure would I rather have? I'll take the state with a population of 8 million over the one with 6.6 million. That would be Virginia.

Im not advocating UMass,(in fact imo vcu is probably a better choice at this point) but why would VCU bring all of Virginia but UMass wouldnt bring all of Massachusetts (i realize Mass is more of a pro sport team state)
Maybe its my northern bias but i would think that the boston market is more valuable than central.southern virginia in the eyes of network executives and college presidents
Putting tv aside and focusing on potential "customers" ie future students, are the current BE schools more likley to find more candidates in boston/springfield/worcester or in richmond/norfolk/charlottesville?
i doubt umass is even a candidate but i understand how they could be

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say that VCU would bring all of VA or that UMass would not bring all of Massachusetts. I said they are in a similar position. If I were to give either the edge in terms of statewide appeal, it would be UMass. Calipari showed in the '90's what that program can be when all is perfectly aligned, selling out the 9500 seat Mullin Center on campus and creating a fierce rivalry with UConn even though they were in different leagues.

I'm looking at UMass as not an option because of the commitment they've made. To football and because college sports seems to be moving away from the model where a school houses football in one league and it's other sports some place else. Frankly, I think that UMass would like to build their football program to the point where they are a viable candidate for the AAC and renew their old Yankee Conference rivalry with UConn. Were it not for football, I think that UMass would be a terrific candidate for The Big East, but I'm afraid that ship has sailed.

VCU's basketball program has as strong a profile as any candidate that the Big East has had. They are far and away the strongest candidate remotely close to the East Coast part of the conference footprint. If this league aspires to be a player among the power basketball conferences, then it must add this kind of program. Anything else tell us that their priorities are elsewhere.