(12-06-2013 02:23 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 02:22 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  What a crazy turn of events. Of course, this might also mean Denver will stick around the Summit for a bit. They are certainly not going back to the WAC.

Big win for Denver. Definitely.

Guess Denver's not coming to the Big West anytime soon :(

Is ORU's return enough to keep Nebraska-Omaha from being poached by the WAC? That is the question I would wonder if I was working in the Summit offices.

(12-06-2013 02:41 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Is ORU's return enough to keep Nebraska-Omaha from being poached by the WAC? That is the question I would wonder if I was working in the Summit offices.

Omaha loves the Summit. They like the Dakotas(long time DII rivals) and Denver(hockey rival). ORU is probably just icing on the cake for them.

Travel would also be vastly more expensive for them in the WAC. With the Summit stabilized I doubt they have any of interest.

This is a big win for the Summit and a big blow to the WAC. It pretty much eliminates the possibility of the WAC prying loose any more Summit members, and could put the conference at risk of losing UTPA. Now the WAC will have to take a hard look at adding more D-2 move-ups.

(12-06-2013 08:42 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  This is a big win for the Summit and a big blow to the WAC. It pretty much eliminates the possibility of the WAC prying loose any more Summit members, and could put the conference at risk of losing UTPA. Now the WAC will have to take a hard look at adding more D-2 move-ups.

UTPA isn't going anywhere. They don't play football so the Southland isn't interested. In addition, with UTPA AND UTB combining with a Med school, they fit the WAC schools more than the typical Southland school.

(12-06-2013 09:27 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 08:42 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  This is a big win for the Summit and a big blow to the WAC. It pretty much eliminates the possibility of the WAC prying loose any more Summit members, and could put the conference at risk of losing UTPA. Now the WAC will have to take a hard look at adding more D-2 move-ups.

UTPA isn't going anywhere. They don't play football so the Southland isn't interested. In addition, with UTPA AND UTB combining with a Med school, they fit the WAC schools more than the typical Southland school.

Agreed. UTPA has been begging the Southland for an invite for years. Everytime the league talks expansion, UTPA throws in their app. Each time, the league turns them down because they have no interest in football.

Right now, the league probably sees more upside on some D2 move ups in than the Broncos

(12-05-2013 11:21 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 11:01 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  My guess is the Southland is going all football members. Corpus is the only remaining basketball school so maybe they join the WaC with pan Am.

There have been talks in the D2 world that members of the Lone Star Conference might be making the move.

Tarleton State played Abilene Christian in front of Southland officials earlier this season. They have solid football and basketball teams, a comprehensive facilities plan, and just approved a $22 per credit hour athletic fee.

West Texas A&M is just outside of Amarillo, has a 20,000 person stadium that they fill, and solid athletic track record.

My guess is one of these two will be taking Oral Roberts spot

I never understood why West Texas A&M wasn't at least Division 1.

Ohio played them in the 1960 Sun Bowl.

They did it to save money.

West Texas State (now A&M) played in the Border Conference with (Arizona, ASU, New Mexico, UTEP, and Texas Tech) from 41-61. Later, they joined the Missouri Valley (with North Texas, Louisville, Cinci, Memphis) and played there until 1984.

In the 1970s enrollment dropped and the university could not afford nice things like providing tenure to faculty. However, they continued to fund D1 sports. This pissed off the Academics. A new president came in 1984 and decided to save the university money by dropping to a regional D2 conference. Later, another president defunded the football team all together. Being West Texas, people threw a fit and it was reinstated.

In the past decade, they have been at or near of the conference in basketball, volleyball, and football. They have raised the athletic fee and created a master plan to be one of the premiere teams in D2.

WT is a regional state school that views its peers as Tarleton, Angelo, ACU, and Texas A&M Commerce. The Lone Star Conference was stable after they dumped the Oklahoma schools and everyone was committed to building the brand. However, Abilene's defection opened everyone's eyes. The available replacement schools are small, private colleges that don't play football or some universities in Mexico (I kid you not). This caused Tarleton to start looking towards FCS.

With ACU gone and Tarleton trying to go, WT will likely do everything in their power to not be left behind

(12-06-2013 12:08 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 11:21 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 11:01 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  My guess is the Southland is going all football members. Corpus is the only remaining basketball school so maybe they join the WaC with pan Am.

There have been talks in the D2 world that members of the Lone Star Conference might be making the move.

Tarleton State played Abilene Christian in front of Southland officials earlier this season. They have solid football and basketball teams, a comprehensive facilities plan, and just approved a $22 per credit hour athletic fee.

West Texas A&M is just outside of Amarillo, has a 20,000 person stadium that they fill, and solid athletic track record.

My guess is one of these two will be taking Oral Roberts spot

I never understood why West Texas A&M wasn't at least Division 1.

Ohio played them in the 1960 Sun Bowl.

They did it to save money.

West Texas State (now A&M) played in the Border Conference with (Arizona, ASU, New Mexico, UTEP, and Texas Tech) from 41-61. Later, they joined the Missouri Valley (with North Texas, Louisville, Cinci, Memphis) and played there until 1984.

NAU, New Mexico State, and Hardin-Simmons were the other members of the Border Conference

(12-06-2013 12:08 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 11:21 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 11:01 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  My guess is the Southland is going all football members. Corpus is the only remaining basketball school so maybe they join the WaC with pan Am.

There have been talks in the D2 world that members of the Lone Star Conference might be making the move.

Tarleton State played Abilene Christian in front of Southland officials earlier this season. They have solid football and basketball teams, a comprehensive facilities plan, and just approved a $22 per credit hour athletic fee.

West Texas A&M is just outside of Amarillo, has a 20,000 person stadium that they fill, and solid athletic track record.

My guess is one of these two will be taking Oral Roberts spot

I never understood why West Texas A&M wasn't at least Division 1.

Ohio played them in the 1960 Sun Bowl.

They did it to save money.

West Texas State (now A&M) played in the Border Conference with (Arizona, ASU, New Mexico, UTEP, and Texas Tech) from 41-61. Later, they joined the Missouri Valley (with North Texas, Louisville, Cinci, Memphis) and played there until 1984.

In the 1970s enrollment dropped and the university could not afford nice things like providing tenure to faculty. However, they continued to fund D1 sports. This pissed off the Academics. A new president came in 1984 and decided to save the university money by dropping to a regional D2 conference. Later, another president defunded the football team all together. Being West Texas, people threw a fit and it was reinstated.

In the past decade, they have been at or near of the conference in basketball, volleyball, and football. They have raised the athletic fee and created a master plan to be one of the premiere teams in D2.

WT is a regional state school that views its peers as Tarleton, Angelo, ACU, and Texas A&M Commerce. The Lone Star Conference was stable after they dumped the Oklahoma schools and everyone was committed to building the brand. However, Abilene's defection opened everyone's eyes. The available replacement schools are small, private colleges that don't play football or some universities in Mexico (I kid you not). This caused Tarleton to start looking towards FCS.

With ACU gone and Tarleton trying to go, WT will likely do everything in their power to not be left behind

That is the most detail on the WT situation that I have EVER read on a sports message board in 20 years of their existence.

Thanks.

I would venture that the Summit League has their eyes on Lindenwood as soon as they can transition to D1.

NDSU/SDSU
USD/Omaha
Denver/Oral Roberts
IUPUI/IPFW
Western Illinois/Lindenwood

(12-06-2013 03:25 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  I would venture that the Summit League has their eyes on Lindenwood as soon as they can transition to D1.

NDSU/SDSU
USD/Omaha
Denver/Oral Roberts
IUPUI/IPFW
Western Illinois/Lindenwood

Lindenwood is a big school. It would be a good pick up.

(12-05-2013 09:30 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The Southland could go the opposite direction and grab Jacksonville State from the OVC. The Southland has a better reputation in football than the OVC. OVC is more of a hoops conference first.

Jacksonville State was previously a member of the Southland from 1996-2003, but they joined at the same time as Troy. After Troy left Jacksonville State wasn't far behind.

I don't see how joining a Texas & Louisiana based conference helps a program that is midway between Birmingham and Atlanta.

(12-06-2013 03:41 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 09:30 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The Southland could go the opposite direction and grab Jacksonville State from the OVC. The Southland has a better reputation in football than the OVC. OVC is more of a hoops conference first.

Jacksonville State was previously a member of the Southland from 1996-2003, but they joined at the same time as Troy. After Troy left Jacksonville State wasn't far behind.

I don't see how joining a Texas & Louisiana based conference helps a program that is midway between Birmingham and Atlanta.

I'm not sure either unless they think it will help football recruiting.

ORU back to the Summit is a moderate surprise. Referencing travel costs in their statement, but travel still has to be much higher for them in the Summit than Southland.

Perhaps UMKC will return to the Summit as well. Of all the realignment moves, that one is by far the most perplexing. Trading trips to Omaha, Denver and the Dakotas for a less stable league with trips to deep South Texas (UTPA), SEATTLE, Bakersfield, Utah Valley??!!! I cannot understand UMKC's decision making at all.... at all.

(12-06-2013 03:37 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 03:25 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  I would venture that the Summit League has their eyes on Lindenwood as soon as they can transition to D1.

NDSU/SDSU
USD/Omaha
Denver/Oral Roberts
IUPUI/IPFW
Western Illinois/Lindenwood

Lindenwood is a big school. It would be a good pick up.

Lindenwood will go to DI at the first available moment. I agree, would be a good pickup for whoever gets them.

(12-06-2013 05:12 PM)MemTGRS Wrote:  Perhaps UMKC will return to the Summit as well. Of all the realignment moves, that one is by far the most perplexing. Trading trips to Omaha, Denver and the Dakotas for a less stable league with trips to deep South Texas (UTPA), SEATTLE, Bakersfield, Utah Valley??!!! I cannot understand UMKC's decision making at all.... at all.

UMKC moved to a league where it could win sooner rather than later - take a look at the RPI of the new WAC schools versus the Summit schools. The WAC also made it easy for UMKC to host conference championships, as the Dakota schools (and now Omaha) pretty much have the conference basketball tournament locked up in Sioux Falls.

I also recall UMKC's AD saying that their athletes would actually miss less class time because they would be flying to WAC schools as opposed to busing to Summit schools.

(12-06-2013 05:12 PM)MemTGRS Wrote:  ORU back to the Summit is a moderate surprise. Referencing travel costs in their statement, but travel still has to be much higher for them in the Summit than Southland.

Perhaps UMKC will return to the Summit as well. Of all the realignment moves, that one is by far the most perplexing. Trading trips to Omaha, Denver and the Dakotas for a less stable league with trips to deep South Texas (UTPA), SEATTLE, Bakersfield, Utah Valley??!!! I cannot understand UMKC's decision making at all.... at all.

I believe that WAC offered UMKC the conf. tournament on their court 3 times if they joined.

If the new UTPA isn't an option, I think they are, since they were a finalist, then I'd look at Angelo St. who withdrew consideration as a finalist, C.Oklahoma, Tarleton St. who was a finalist the previous time but not the last go around.

(12-06-2013 05:12 PM)MemTGRS Wrote:  ORU back to the Summit is a moderate surprise. Referencing travel costs in their statement, but travel still has to be much higher for them in the Summit than Southland.

In the Summit schools are dividing NCAA revenue 9 ways instead of 14 and I think that is an important factor.

Maybe they threatened the Southland saying either you give us the divisional realignment we want or else we walk. The Southland called the bluff and ORU acted on it. This sounds like a fishy situation to me.

Outside of Boise State returning to he MWC, all other moves whether good, great or questionable had the schools making them stick with the decision. Boise State had financial considerations that were well defined with the expectation of making at least 6.0 mil per year on the BE TV contract.

Thanks folks for the responses regarding UMKC's decision (and ORU for that matter).

I suppose hosting the tournament three times is a very nice incentive. The AD of UMKC seems to fail noting the financial hit of all those plane rides instead of bus trips but I'm not privy to all that. Best of luck to them.

(12-11-2013 10:35 AM)MemTGRS Wrote:  Thanks folks for the responses regarding UMKC's decision (and ORU for that matter).

I suppose hosting the tournament three times is a very nice incentive. The AD of UMKC seems to fail noting the financial hit of all those plane rides instead of bus trips but I'm not privy to all that. Best of luck to them.

It was pointed out earlier, but I think the biggest reason for UMKC moving is the ability to win. If they can improve their talent level and start winning 18+ games and maybe some conference championships it gives them something to sell new recruits and would hopefully allow them to keep improving.

I would guess that their long term goal is to get invited to the MVC. I think the MVC sees KC as a good place to be, but I don't think they're willing to invite a team as bad as UMKC is. Although, the essentially did that with Chicago and Loyola. But Loyola had committed to investing in basketball and seem to be doing the right things to improve it. I can't quite say the same thing for the Roos, but winning can help them down the road and the WAC will be easier for them to win in then the Summit.