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Did anyone else think Washington's finishing around the basket was particularly weak against UNC? He definitely had the hustle with blocking out and fighting for rebounds, but he had at least one (maybe two) certain dunk completely blocked and couldn't finish a lot of chances right at the rim. I'd like to mark that down to UNC's talent down low - it's the only game this season where it seemed to stand out to me - but some of those chances you want to see your big man at least get to the line regardless of defenders. Frazier fed him a pass in the 2nd half where he was right under the basket, a full step clear of the wide-body UNC defender (can't recall his name) who started to recover towards him, and CJ put the ball right into the underside of the rim.

(12-04-2013 11:49 PM)blazr Wrote:  Did anyone else think Washington's finishing around the basket was particularly weak against UNC? He definitely had the hustle with blocking out and fighting for rebounds, but he had at least one (maybe two) certain dunk completely blocked and couldn't finish a lot of chances right at the rim. I'd like to mark that down to UNC's talent down low - it's the only game this season where it seemed to stand out to me - but some of those chances you want to see your big man at least get to the line regardless of defenders. Frazier fed him a pass in the 2nd half where he was right under the basket, a full step clear of the wide-body UNC defender (can't recall his name) who started to recover towards him, and CJ put the ball right into the underside of the rim.

they should practice dunking everything in practice when they get around the basket.

maybe he is nursing a sore wrist or a bodgy knee. I wouldn't read too much into it .

(12-04-2013 11:49 PM)blazr Wrote:  Did anyone else think Washington's finishing around the basket was particularly weak against UNC? He definitely had the hustle with blocking out and fighting for rebounds, but he had at least one (maybe two) certain dunk completely blocked and couldn't finish a lot of chances right at the rim. I'd like to mark that down to UNC's talent down low - it's the only game this season where it seemed to stand out to me - but some of those chances you want to see your big man at least get to the line regardless of defenders. Frazier fed him a pass in the 2nd half where he was right under the basket, a full step clear of the wide-body UNC defender (can't recall his name) who started to recover towards him, and CJ put the ball right into the underside of the rim.

Yep. It reminded me of Howard Crawford's NIT game against UNC in 2010.

I haven't seen him dunk without full stride lift-off all season. It's been a common theme through most of our home games at least...for a while I wasn't sure if he even COULD dunk. He doesn't finish hard, and always goes for the finesse layup.

Give credit where it is due though - UNC made several very strong defensive plays. There were several hustle plays that led to blocks from behind, a couple of times that they made a clean grab for the ball that resulted in held balls. I don't doubt that they altered some shots through defensive intimidation.

i don't think it was just Washington. as a team, i counted 392 shots we missed within 2 feet of the rim. i think UNC had a lot to do with it

Take it to the rack!

Washington has excellent touch around the basket, but he doesn't play above the rim.

Also, UNC has freak athletes.

(12-05-2013 08:16 AM)jthrashr Wrote:  Washington has excellent touch around the basket, but he doesn't play above the rim.

Also, UNC has freak athletes.

Yep. CJ isn't going to be facing front lines like that regularly, and he will be just fine. We don't need the guy to dunk the ball if that isn't his game.

Kennedy Meeks 6-9 290
Joel James 6-10 280
James Michael McAdoo 6-9 230
Brice Johnson 6-9 210

Against UAB, McAdoo had four blocks, James had two, and Johnson had two.

(12-04-2013 11:49 PM)blazr Wrote:  Did anyone else think Washington's finishing around the basket was particularly weak against UNC? He definitely had the hustle with blocking out and fighting for rebounds, but he had at least one (maybe two) certain dunk completely blocked and couldn't finish a lot of chances right at the rim. I'd like to mark that down to UNC's talent down low - it's the only game this season where it seemed to stand out to me - but some of those chances you want to see your big man at least get to the line regardless of defenders. Frazier fed him a pass in the 2nd half where he was right under the basket, a full step clear of the wide-body UNC defender (can't recall his name) who started to recover towards him, and CJ put the ball right into the underside of the rim.

I completely agree. I said this in the game thread. He took it up soft and slow close to the basket. There were two GIMME baskets that he got blocked on or missed where he was a full 2 steps ahead of his defender.

He's a great player, but the UNC game wasn't his best. UNC definitely had some monsters size and athleticism wise, so I don't think that problem will rear its ugly head too often. Those missed baskets could've been the deciding factor in the game, though.

(12-05-2013 09:13 AM)KevMo4UAB Wrote:  Kennedy Meeks 6-9 290
Joel James 6-10 280
James Michael McAdoo 6-9 230
Brice Johnson 6-9 210

Against UAB, McAdoo had four blocks, James had two, and Johnson had two.

At least one of those blocks, probably more like 2-3, were because CJ took it up slow and indecisively against the UNC defenders. They were gimme baskets that were blown.

There is no such thing as a gimme basket against UNC, and there weren't any in that game. Did anyone watch what those UNC bigs did to the #1 team in the country last night? CJ was facing elite big men who are all extremely physical. And quick. And smart. Their recovery to block shots last night (and in our game) was incredible; they ate MSU alive inside. CJ has never seen anything like that before. And he's not a traditional 4 anyway. His game is pure quickness and length and not really strength (at least not yet). And I'm sure it threw him off when a couple of his moves that work at every level at which he's ever played yielded nothing.

But not only is CJ absolutely not soft, I think what he and Foz and Rucker (mainly those guys) did against those UNC big guys on the boards and on the defensive end was frankly incredible. CJ was defending guys all night that he was not physically equipped to handle. But he did handle them; he was banging inside like a beast. So he got a shot or two blocked on the offensive end? It wouldn't have mattered if he was quick and decisive or slow and indecisive, there were absolutely going to be some shots blocked if we tried to score in the paint against that size. (See, e.g., Brice Johnson's block of a Matt Costello dunk attempt; Costello looked wide open for an easy dunk, he sure as hell went up strong and decisively, he's bigger than CJ, and Johnson promptly came out of nowhere to swat it to midcourt for a fast break bucket.)

That's the way basketball works. Elite talent is elite for a reason. The point was that our guys were going right at those UNC bigs all night, didn't let one or two failures deter them, and made very clear they weren't intimidated. UNC fans and Jay Bilas can chalk it up to UNC "not competing" or "not ready to play" all they want. But screw them. CJ, Foz and Rucker collectively dominated the paint against a team that went out its next game and dominated the paint against the best team in college basketball.

Nothing has made me more optimistic about this team's chances the rest of the way than watching our game Sunday and then the UNC/MSU game last night. And CJ is going to be one of the main reasons we succeed; we just have to stop trying to make him something he's not. It'd be like criticizing Rucker for not making 3s.

CJ is a great player. He's also a good rebounder. He rebounded well against UNC, but at finishing baskets not so much..

He had a two step lead and wide open path to the basket on at least two occasions, and either missed or was swatted from behind. He took the ball up indecisively, and he paid for it. No other way to spin it. Hopefully he learns from it, but I agree he's a finesse player.

(12-05-2013 11:05 AM)The Answer UAB Wrote:  CJ is a great player. He's also a good rebounder. He rebounded well against UNC, but at finishing baskets not so much..

He had a two step lead and wide open path to the basket on at least two occasions, and either missed or was swatted from behind. He took the ball up indecisively, and he paid for it. No other way to spin it. Hopefully he learns from it, but I agree he's a finesse player.

But that's my point. He wasn't indecisive. He decided that he had a clear path and time to lay it up and in. And he learned that you can't do that against elite talent. Just like Matt Costello learned last night when he got his clear-path dunk swatted by one of those same guys.

And watching CJ use his left hand on three straight interior moves in the Charleston tournament demonstrates that he can finish. But much like occasionally Shaq would swat a Tim Duncan shot, CJ will have shots blocked by really, really good players. My point is he's not going to see a front line like that again until at least the Sweet 16.

(12-05-2013 11:16 AM)freeblazer Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 11:05 AM)The Answer UAB Wrote:  CJ is a great player. He's also a good rebounder. He rebounded well against UNC, but at finishing baskets not so much..

He had a two step lead and wide open path to the basket on at least two occasions, and either missed or was swatted from behind. He took the ball up indecisively, and he paid for it. No other way to spin it. Hopefully he learns from it, but I agree he's a finesse player.

But that's my point. He wasn't indecisive. He decided that he had a clear path and time to lay it up and in. And he learned that you can't do that against elite talent. Just like Matt Costello learned last night when he got his clear-path dunk swatted by one of those same guys.

And watching CJ use his left hand on three straight interior moves in the Charleston tournament demonstrates that he can finish. But much like occasionally Shaq would swat a Tim Duncan shot, CJ will have shots blocked by really, really good players. My point is he's not going to see a front line like that again until at least the Sweet 16.

He was decisively slow and timid.

He is good at finishing, with finesse, around the rim. I'm an ambidextrous player, so I truly enjoy seeing players who can finish so well with both hands.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous

(12-05-2013 11:34 AM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous

Then you'd be antidextrous

I know we are contributing a lot of this to UNC being our opponent...but I and others in my section noticed this long before the UNC game. All season he's been hesitant to finish strong at the rim and I honestly think it's because he can't get the vertical to do it unless he's got a running start and clear path. Maybe I'm wrong, but all season I've heard, "Why doesn't he slam it in?"