(12-06-2013 12:21 AM)mjs Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 12:03 AM)mjs Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 11:19 PM)hb8 Wrote:  An unsolicited point of view from an outsider. Even worse, a stAte fan. I am surprised at what I perceive as the hostility to Mike Newell by some of the long time fans here and even by your university.

Newell's contemporary at stAte was Nelson Catalina. Catalina was separated from our program during the Dicky Nutt era. The type of ill will that happens when you get fired and your assistant gets hired. By Brady's second year he brought Catalina back. On the final game that year we played WKU with the division on the line (lost). At halftime "the Cat" was introduced to a thundering and long lasting standing ovation. Seems a shame that can't happen for Newell.

I always liked Cat. I thought he was an excellent coach. His teams often had excellent regular seasons only to lose in the tournament. My theory was that the cream rises to the top in the tourney. Cat got the most out of his talent, but the team's with the most talent (ex. ULL) would end up winning the tourney.

Newell came back and was inducted into the UALR Hall of Fame. He was introduced at halftime. I can't recall a "thundering" ovation, but I think he was warmly received by the fans who remember him. Our students weren't born yet when he was the coach here. When Newell was here most envisioned him as eventually becoming one of the top coaches in college basketball. He basically fell off the face of the earth after he left for Lamar. Sad and somewhat hard to explain.

Newell obviously had some problem outside of basketball, because he was hot property at one time, and talk about mistakes in life. He turned down the Marquette job. I guess hindsight is always 20-20, but it still puzzles me why he turned down that job. I wish Mike would have had the success most of thought he would have. Some things you just can't explain.

If your theory is correct, not much cream in the coffee around here lately.
[/quote]


BOOM!

We like our coffee plain........

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

(12-06-2013 12:21 AM)mjs Wrote:  Newell came back and was inducted into the UALR Hall of Fame. He was introduced at halftime. I can't recall a "thundering" ovation, but I think he was warmly received by the fans who remember him. Our students weren't born yet when he was the coach here. When Newell was here most envisioned him as eventually becoming one of the top coaches in college basketball. He basically fell off the face of the earth after he left for Lamar. Sad and somewhat hard to explain.

When was the last time you've ever heard a "thundering" ovation at the Jack? Never. There hasn't been enough people in the Jack at any one time to produce a "thundering" fart, if they all farted on cue. They waited so long to honor him, that many of the Newell era fans were either in cemeteries or nursing homes, and the students and the young people had no idea who he was.

(12-06-2013 12:15 AM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 12:03 AM)mjs Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 11:19 PM)hb8 Wrote:  An unsolicited point of view from an outsider. Even worse, a stAte fan. I am surprised at what I perceive as the hostility to Mike Newell by some of the long time fans here and even by your university.

Newell's contemporary at stAte was Nelson Catalina. Catalina was separated from our program during the Dicky Nutt era. The type of ill will that happens when you get fired and your assistant gets hired. By Brady's second year he brought Catalina back. On the final game that year we played WKU with the division on the line (lost). At halftime "the Cat" was introduced to a thundering and long lasting standing ovation. Seems a shame that can't happen for Newell.

I always liked Cat. I thought he was an excellent coach. His teams often had excellent regular seasons only to lose in the tournament. My theory was that the cream rises to the top in the tourney. Cat got the most out of his talent, but the team's with the most talent (ex. ULL) would end up winning the tourney.

If your theory is correct, not much cream in the coffee around here lately.

We know that most years, we haven't had the talent of Western, ULL, North Texas or USA. But we've done well with the talent we've had.
I do think our talent level has improved since winning the tournament.
Whether it's good enough to win it all is yet to be determined.

When I pull open the bottom drawer of my desk, Jeff Slatton's book about the Trojan's 1985-86 season is there. Took time to re-read parts of it. I know it was a different time, different era but, anyone doubting the excitement Newell brought to UALR BB could check out the last 2 or 3 chapters of that book. UALR BB has never been close to that since. And like Guy Lombardo's Auld Lang Syne will never be again. Not only at UALR but at any other small program. Hindsight. Newell probably should have left after that season. It seemed that people in important places had determined that UALR BB had to be put down to protect hogism. (IMO). I recall visiting with Mike Hamrick when he first came. He was looking at his budget and couldn't believe it was so small. It seems pointless to keep discussing old times. It just seems to some of us that UALR MBB could be better.

(12-05-2013 12:20 AM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-04-2013 11:51 PM)mjs Wrote:  

(12-04-2013 11:25 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(12-04-2013 10:58 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-04-2013 08:47 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  You may not be a Newell hater Jim, but you are without a doubt a Shields lover, come hell or high water. You just can't force yourself to admit that Newell was a better coach and his teams played much more exciting basketball than Shields teams do.

Sure tickets were cheaper then, and now are too damn high for the quality of product that we've being given, but what was the price of gas twenty-five or thirty years ago? People knew a good product when they saw it, and went out to a dirty old arena, with insulation hanging down, and in a bad part of town to go to the games because they won, and played exciting basketball. Now we have a state of the art arena, and we can't draw 3,000 a game. Of course that's probably because of the price of gas now. Right Jim?

People want winners and they want to watch exciting basketball, and evidently it didn't make a big difference to many fans that we were in the TAAC. Now it evidently doesn't excite many that we're a mediocre program, have very mediocre coach of eleven years, and are usually about the 3rd or 4th best team in a primarily weak Sun Belt Conference . Win baby, that's the name of the game.

And you're the guy that wants to accuse others of wanting to revise history.

Just laugh at those who fawn over all the 75 dollar season ticket sales and then say others are revising history. Nothing to do with liking Steve. Hard to ignore the fact that I had to beg people to buy those cheapies after Newell just about ended our program . . . without revising history. Which part of coaching do you believe Newell exceeded Steve in? Couldn't draw 1500 when we were at the Convention Center . . .
even with the cheapie tickets. If you think the basketball games were more exciting back then, that's fine. More revisionist history. We all prefer winners. Duh. We all like to watch exciting basketball. What's your point? Once again, I just can't root for us to lose.

Just pick any phase of the coaching game and you'll answer you're own question. You're bound to be a better lawyer than you are at estimating the attendance at basketball games, or you wouldn't still be in business. Must have disliked Newell pretty bad Jim.

What do you mean with "what's your point"? I think I made my point pretty clear.

Look, attendance sucked during most of the Newell era. Yes, we had occasional big crowds when we gave away a truck full of groceries, had Houston and Xavier come in, played in the NIT. For meaningless nonconference games it was no better than we draw now. I will agree that on average it was better than it is now. But cable television was just beginning, VCR's were just coming out, Pong was the big video game, and Red Box and On Demand movies did not exist. My seats cost $75 instead of $600. Times have changed. Attendance is down at all but the top BCS programs. That's just the way it is. We draw as well as about anyone else in the Belt, once WKU joins MTSU in Conference USA. I don't see our attendance changing significantly, but I still wish we would try to do more in the area of promotions. None of this is a put down of Mike Newell. He was more frustrated with our attendance than anyone- maybe except Chancellor White who threatened to shut the program if we didn't sell a **** load of season tickets.

Chancellor White? As I recall the guy's name was Young. But even taking inflation into account, do you really believe that UALR season tickets are worth $600 per? As you point out, there is more competition from cable TV, etc. So why does UALR price its product at prices that guarantee they won't sell well with the public at large? It's not like there is a waiting list. Our AD decided to place price before creating demand, and that's a big reason the program is in such a downward spiral.

While higher prices may chase away some attendees who don't think they are getting their money's worth, those prices certainly don't prevent first-timers from coming to games. Marketing studies show that higher prices make the uninitiated think you are good. For those who don't think that our home schedule is worth 600, heck, I think they could have sat in my section all year for $456 or in your "crappy" seats all year for about 84 dollars. Anyone that doesn't want to pay 84 dollars for a season's worth of what I think is fun, well, then, oh, whatever.

(12-05-2013 09:43 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 08:09 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-04-2013 11:25 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(12-04-2013 10:58 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-04-2013 08:47 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  You may not be a Newell hater Jim, but you are without a doubt a Shields lover, come hell or high water. You just can't force yourself to admit that Newell was a better coach and his teams played much more exciting basketball than Shields teams do.

Sure tickets were cheaper then, and now are too damn high for the quality of product that we've being given, but what was the price of gas twenty-five or thirty years ago? People knew a good product when they saw it, and went out to a dirty old arena, with insulation hanging down, and in a bad part of town to go to the games because they won, and played exciting basketball. Now we have a state of the art arena, and we can't draw 3,000 a game. Of course that's probably because of the price of gas now. Right Jim?

People want winners and they want to watch exciting basketball, and evidently it didn't make a big difference to many fans that we were in the TAAC. Now it evidently doesn't excite many that we're a mediocre program, have very mediocre coach of eleven years, and are usually about the 3rd or 4th best team in a primarily weak Sun Belt Conference . Win baby, that's the name of the game.

And you're the guy that wants to accuse others of wanting to revise history.

Just laugh at those who fawn over all the 75 dollar season ticket sales and then say others are revising history. Nothing to do with liking Steve. Hard to ignore the fact that I had to beg people to buy those cheapies after Newell just about ended our program . . . without revising history. Which part of coaching do you believe Newell exceeded Steve in? Couldn't draw 1500 when we were at the Convention Center . . .
even with the cheapie tickets. If you think the basketball games were more exciting back then, that's fine. More revisionist history. We all prefer winners. Duh. We all like to watch exciting basketball. What's your point? Once again, I just can't root for us to lose.

Just pick any phase of the coaching game and you'll answer you're own question. You're bound to be a better lawyer than you are at estimating the attendance at basketball games, or you wouldn't still be in business. Must have disliked Newell pretty bad Jim.

What do you mean with "what's your point"? I think I made my point pretty clear.

I think I will start by picking -- oh -- not getting the chancellor to threaten to **** the program down. How about recruiting kids who can add, subtract and graduate?
Didn't and don't dislike Newell in the slightest. Just have to laugh at the memory loss of some of our more senior fans... either memory loss or flat out intentional revision of history. Revising history and rooting for us to lose are two things I will never do.

Recruiting kids who can add, subtract and graduate? Can you spell Javes? Who has a selective memory of something much more recent?

You talking about the kid from Columbia who spoke some English as a second language? Get back with me after you have tried to get As's and B's at the Columbian university of your choice. I don 't think adding and subtracting we're MJ's problem. Come on, Man. You can do better than that. Reaching like that is beneath you.

(12-05-2013 09:45 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 08:09 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  I think I will start by picking -- oh -- not getting the chancellor to threaten to **** the program down. How about recruiting kids who can add, subtract and graduate?
Didn't and don't dislike Newell in the slightest. Just have to laugh at the memory loss of some of our more senior fans... either memory loss or flat out intentional revision of history. Revising history and rooting for us to lose are two things I will never do.

You didn't name one aspect of coaching. You wanted to compare "coaching", and I did. Give me the name of one of Newell's players that you know for a fact that couldn't add or subtract. Come on big boy, you've let your mouth overload your ass, so give me some names. As I said, I made my point, and you want to talk about revising history. You're the ******* king of revising history, and obviously you know less about coaching than I do. Never could understand a guy that was supposedly a fan of a great coach and program, and defends this **** that we get year after year. Evidently someone must have told you Knight was a great coach, because I'm not sure you'd know one if you saw one.

In coaching, recruiting kids who can graduate and don't steal credit cards is not part of it? I'll just use initials to name the academic geniuses we used to have. MJS will know who I'm talking about even if you feign ignorance or Alzheimer's. Try JC. How about MM? Maybe they left here and transferred to MIT?

Someone did tell me Knight was a great coach. I just about fell over.

(12-06-2013 06:09 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  In coaching, recruiting kids who can graduate and don't steal credit cards is not part of it? I'll just use initials to name the academic geniuses we used to have. MJS will know who I'm talking about even if you feign ignorance or Alzheimer's. Try JC. How about MM? Maybe they left here and transferred to MIT?

Someone did tell me Knight was a great coach. I just about fell over.

Just how would you know who couldn't add and subtract? That information should be private, even to divorce lawyers. Somebody would have had to tell you, because you wouldn't know a basketball coach if you ran into one. And watch who you're referring to as ignorant. Someone might take offense to that. You savvy?

(12-06-2013 06:00 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 09:43 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 08:09 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-04-2013 11:25 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(12-04-2013 10:58 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  Just laugh at those who fawn over all the 75 dollar season ticket sales and then say others are revising history. Nothing to do with liking Steve. Hard to ignore the fact that I had to beg people to buy those cheapies after Newell just about ended our program . . . without revising history. Which part of coaching do you believe Newell exceeded Steve in? Couldn't draw 1500 when we were at the Convention Center . . .
even with the cheapie tickets. If you think the basketball games were more exciting back then, that's fine. More revisionist history. We all prefer winners. Duh. We all like to watch exciting basketball. What's your point? Once again, I just can't root for us to lose.

Just pick any phase of the coaching game and you'll answer you're own question. You're bound to be a better lawyer than you are at estimating the attendance at basketball games, or you wouldn't still be in business. Must have disliked Newell pretty bad Jim.

What do you mean with "what's your point"? I think I made my point pretty clear.

I think I will start by picking -- oh -- not getting the chancellor to threaten to **** the program down. How about recruiting kids who can add, subtract and graduate?
Didn't and don't dislike Newell in the slightest. Just have to laugh at the memory loss of some of our more senior fans... either memory loss or flat out intentional revision of history. Revising history and rooting for us to lose are two things I will never do.

Recruiting kids who can add, subtract and graduate? Can you spell Javes? Who has a selective memory of something much more recent?

You talking about the kid from Columbia who spoke some English as a second language? Get back with me after you have tried to get As's and B's at the Columbian university of your choice. I don 't think adding and subtracting we're MJ's problem. Come on, Man. You can do better than that. Reaching like that is beneath you.

Aw come on now. You are using a selective scale to fit your argument. You brought up the poor student stuff, not me. So being a poor student only applies to recruited Americans huh?

(12-06-2013 07:17 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 06:00 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 09:43 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 08:09 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-04-2013 11:25 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  Just pick any phase of the coaching game and you'll answer you're own question. You're bound to be a better lawyer than you are at estimating the attendance at basketball games, or you wouldn't still be in business. Must have disliked Newell pretty bad Jim.

What do you mean with "what's your point"? I think I made my point pretty clear.

I think I will start by picking -- oh -- not getting the chancellor to threaten to **** the program down. How about recruiting kids who can add, subtract and graduate?
Didn't and don't dislike Newell in the slightest. Just have to laugh at the memory loss of some of our more senior fans... either memory loss or flat out intentional revision of history. Revising history and rooting for us to lose are two things I will never do.

Recruiting kids who can add, subtract and graduate? Can you spell Javes? Who has a selective memory of something much more recent?

You talking about the kid from Columbia who spoke some English as a second language? Get back with me after you have tried to get As's and B's at the Columbian university of your choice. I don 't think adding and subtracting we're MJ's problem. Come on, Man. You can do better than that. Reaching like that is beneath you.

Aw come on now. You are using a selective scale to fit your argument. You brought up the poor student stuff, not me. So being a poor student only applies to recruited Americans huh?

And your posts in this thread really show that your title for the thread is a joke. You really are a Newell hater, and not just in the slightest!

(12-06-2013 06:59 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 06:09 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  In coaching, recruiting kids who can graduate and don't steal credit cards is not part of it? I'll just use initials to name the academic geniuses we used to have. MJS will know who I'm talking about even if you feign ignorance or Alzheimer's. Try JC. How about MM? Maybe they left here and transferred to MIT?

Someone did tell me Knight was a great coach. I just about fell over.

Just how would you know who couldn't add and subtract? That information should be private, even to divorce lawyers. Somebody would have had to tell you, because you wouldn't know a basketball coach if you ran into one. And watch who you're referring to as ignorant. Someone might take offense to that. You savvy?

The savviest. LOL!

(12-06-2013 07:17 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 06:00 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 09:43 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 08:09 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-04-2013 11:25 PM)LRTrojan Wrote:  Just pick any phase of the coaching game and you'll answer you're own question. You're bound to be a better lawyer than you are at estimating the attendance at basketball games, or you wouldn't still be in business. Must have disliked Newell pretty bad Jim.

What do you mean with "what's your point"? I think I made my point pretty clear.

I think I will start by picking -- oh -- not getting the chancellor to threaten to **** the program down. How about recruiting kids who can add, subtract and graduate?
Didn't and don't dislike Newell in the slightest. Just have to laugh at the memory loss of some of our more senior fans... either memory loss or flat out intentional revision of history. Revising history and rooting for us to lose are two things I will never do.

Recruiting kids who can add, subtract and graduate? Can you spell Javes? Who has a selective memory of something much more recent?

You talking about the kid from Columbia who spoke some English as a second language? Get back with me after you have tried to get As's and B's at the Columbian university of your choice. I don 't think adding and subtracting we're MJ's problem. Come on, Man. You can do better than that. Reaching like that is beneath you.

Aw come on now. You are using a selective scale to fit your argument. You brought up the poor student stuff, not me. So being a poor student only applies to recruited Americans huh?

Maybe apply it to those who grew up with English as their first language?

(12-06-2013 07:36 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 07:17 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 06:00 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 09:43 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 08:09 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  I think I will start by picking -- oh -- not getting the chancellor to threaten to **** the program down. How about recruiting kids who can add, subtract and graduate?
Didn't and don't dislike Newell in the slightest. Just have to laugh at the memory loss of some of our more senior fans... either memory loss or flat out intentional revision of history. Revising history and rooting for us to lose are two things I will never do.

Recruiting kids who can add, subtract and graduate? Can you spell Javes? Who has a selective memory of something much more recent?

You talking about the kid from Columbia who spoke some English as a second language? Get back with me after you have tried to get As's and B's at the Columbian university of your choice. I don 't think adding and subtracting we're MJ's problem. Come on, Man. You can do better than that. Reaching like that is beneath you.

Aw come on now. You are using a selective scale to fit your argument. You brought up the poor student stuff, not me. So being a poor student only applies to recruited Americans huh?

Maybe apply it to those who grew up with English as their first language?

If they are recruited to be students at UALR, they should all be held to the same standard. Otherwise, they shouldn't be recruited. Double standards don't cut it.

(12-06-2013 08:38 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 07:36 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 07:17 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 06:00 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-05-2013 09:43 PM)PTJR Wrote:  Recruiting kids who can add, subtract and graduate? Can you spell Javes? Who has a selective memory of something much more recent?

You talking about the kid from Columbia who spoke some English as a second language? Get back with me after you have tried to get As's and B's at the Columbian university of your choice. I don 't think adding and subtracting we're MJ's problem. Come on, Man. You can do better than that. Reaching like that is beneath you.

Aw come on now. You are using a selective scale to fit your argument. You brought up the poor student stuff, not me. So being a poor student only applies to recruited Americans huh?

Maybe apply it to those who grew up with English as their first language?

If they are recruited to be students at UALR, they should all be held to the same standard. Otherwise, they shouldn't be recruited. Double standards don't cut it.

Don't recruit foreign-speaking students? Wow!

(12-06-2013 08:44 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 08:38 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 07:36 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 07:17 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 06:00 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  You talking about the kid from Columbia who spoke some English as a second language? Get back with me after you have tried to get As's and B's at the Columbian university of your choice. I don 't think adding and subtracting we're MJ's problem. Come on, Man. You can do better than that. Reaching like that is beneath you.

Aw come on now. You are using a selective scale to fit your argument. You brought up the poor student stuff, not me. So being a poor student only applies to recruited Americans huh?

Maybe apply it to those who grew up with English as their first language?

If they are recruited to be students at UALR, they should all be held to the same standard. Otherwise, they shouldn't be recruited. Double standards don't cut it.

Don't recruit foreign-speaking students? Wow!

No moron, don't recruit foreign students who have no chance of making the academic grades! We have tons of foreign athletes who can run academic circles around most of the kids from the old USA.

(12-06-2013 08:52 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 08:44 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 08:38 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 07:36 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 07:17 PM)PTJR Wrote:  Aw come on now. You are using a selective scale to fit your argument. You brought up the poor student stuff, not me. So being a poor student only applies to recruited Americans huh?

Maybe apply it to those who grew up with English as their first language?

If they are recruited to be students at UALR, they should all be held to the same standard. Otherwise, they shouldn't be recruited. Double standards don't cut it.

Don't recruit foreign-speaking students? Wow!

No moron, don't recruit foreign students who have no chance of making the academic grades! We have tons of foreign athletes who can run academic circles around most of the kids from the old USA.

Hey, Sweetheart, how does one know if a foreign student can pick up English fast enough until you give him a chance?

(12-06-2013 09:02 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 08:52 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 08:44 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 08:38 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 07:36 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  Maybe apply it to those who grew up with English as their first language?

If they are recruited to be students at UALR, they should all be held to the same standard. Otherwise, they shouldn't be recruited. Double standards don't cut it.

Don't recruit foreign-speaking students? Wow!

No moron, don't recruit foreign students who have no chance of making the academic grades! We have tons of foreign athletes who can run academic circles around most of the kids from the old USA.

Hey, Sweetheart, how does one know if a foreign student can pick up English fast enough until you give him a chance?

Man, it's a good thing you are not a college recruiter! You obviously would be lost.

(12-06-2013 09:19 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 09:02 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 08:52 PM)PTJR Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 08:44 PM)Ynocpirt Wrote:  

(12-06-2013 08:38 PM)PTJR Wrote:  If they are recruited to be students at UALR, they should all be held to the same standard. Otherwise, they shouldn't be recruited. Double standards don't cut it.

Don't recruit foreign-speaking students? Wow!

No moron, don't recruit foreign students who have no chance of making the academic grades! We have tons of foreign athletes who can run academic circles around most of the kids from the old USA.

Hey, Sweetheart, how does one know if a foreign student can pick up English fast enough until you give him a chance?

Man, it's a good thing you are not a college recruiter! You obviously would be lost.

Pretty low bar being a college recruiter, isn't it?