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Why FSU is #1 and there's no debate
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CardinalJim Online
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Post: #41
RE: Why FSU is #1 and there's no debate
FSU won't lose to Duke. No court action against Winston can keep him out of a NCG. A FSU friendly judge would simply issue an injunction.

Ohio State better hope Michigan State takes care of business and ends the talk of the Buckeyes playing for a title. Ohio State wants no part of Florida State.
CJ
12-02-2013 10:15 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Why FSU is #1 and there's no debate
(12-02-2013 09:28 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-02-2013 09:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2013 08:40 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-02-2013 06:45 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(12-01-2013 02:46 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  I've seen a few question their schedule, but we could be witnessing the most dominant season in history.

Most of us can probably remember the 1995 Nebraska team that crushed everyone. They won by an avg. of 38.7 points a game. That was probably the last ridiculously dominating team until this year. FSU is currently winning by an avg. of 42.7 points perlled some of trhose teams. game. If that holds up, it may be the most dominant year ever.

They said last night on the ESPN that Floroda State has played the weakest schedule of any BCS champonship team. Their schedule has been horribly weak, NIU would have probably rolled some of those teams.

But that's part of the story. They aren't the only ones that have played a "weak" schedule over the past 50 years. Yet, they have been the most dominant.

Problem is, the ability to RUTS against a bad team isn't indicative of ability to beat good teams.

Wasn't the point of the thread. The point of the thread was pointing out how this level of domination is unprecedented.

No, the point of the thread was to cite this alleged "unprecedented domination" to justify FSU as most deserving of being #1.

That implication begs the questions of what it means to be dominant, and as I and others have shown, merely looking at the MOV number is no more meaningful than merely looking at records. You have to factor in SOS, as it should be plain as day that having an MOV of 15 vs a tough schedule is more "dominant" than having an MOV of 20 versus a soft schedule, etc.
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2013 12:02 AM by quo vadis.)
12-03-2013 12:01 AM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Why FSU is #1 and there's no debate
(12-02-2013 10:15 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  FSU won't lose to Duke. No court action against Winston can keep him out of a NCG. A FSU friendly judge would simply issue an injunction.

Ohio State better hope Michigan State takes care of business and ends the talk of the Buckeyes playing for a title. Ohio State wants no part of Florida State.
CJ

But if he is later convicted and FSU lets him play, couldn't the NCAA vacate their NC? At any rate, we should have an indictment in the next week or two if one is coming, which I doubt will happen. He said-she said. No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. Tough case to prove and it seems like FSU is pretty confident or he would be benched.
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2013 12:51 AM by USAFMEDIC.)
12-03-2013 12:46 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Why FSU is #1 and there's no debate
(12-03-2013 12:46 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(12-02-2013 10:15 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  FSU won't lose to Duke. No court action against Winston can keep him out of a NCG. A FSU friendly judge would simply issue an injunction.

Ohio State better hope Michigan State takes care of business and ends the talk of the Buckeyes playing for a title. Ohio State wants no part of Florida State.
CJ

But if he is later convicted and FSU lets him play, couldn't the NCAA vacate their NC?

First, "Jim" is wrong: If Winston is indicted, FSU will suspend him, so FSU won't be going to court to get an injunction demanding that he be allowed to play.

Second, the NCAA doesn't sanction a national title in FBS, so if FSU won the BCS title game the NCAA could not vacate it. The NCAA could vacate the result of the game, but it would be up to the AP and/or BCS to vacate the title, as the BCS did when USC's win over Oklahoma in the 2005 BCS title game was vacated by the NCAA, and the BCS then stripped them of the title. The AP never stripped USC of their title, but then who cares about the AP these days?
12-03-2013 07:05 AM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Why FSU is #1 and there's no debate
(12-03-2013 12:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2013 09:28 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-02-2013 09:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2013 08:40 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-02-2013 06:45 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  They said last night on the ESPN that Floroda State has played the weakest schedule of any BCS champonship team. Their schedule has been horribly weak, NIU would have probably rolled some of those teams.

But that's part of the story. They aren't the only ones that have played a "weak" schedule over the past 50 years. Yet, they have been the most dominant.

Problem is, the ability to RUTS against a bad team isn't indicative of ability to beat good teams.

Wasn't the point of the thread. The point of the thread was pointing out how this level of domination is unprecedented.

No, the point of the thread was to cite this alleged "unprecedented domination" to justify FSU as most deserving of being #1.

That implication begs the questions of what it means to be dominant, and as I and others have shown, merely looking at the MOV number is no more meaningful than merely looking at records. You have to factor in SOS, as it should be plain as day that having an MOV of 15 vs a tough schedule is more "dominant" than having an MOV of 20 versus a soft schedule, etc.

You still don't get it. Other teams have had "softer" schedules and didn't dominate like this. And the domination isn't alleged. It's pure fact. The teams that FSU hasn't beaten this year, while not world beaters, have shown themselves to be very competitive. They may not win those games but they're not getting beat by 25 or 50 points a game.

FSU beat Pitt 41-13 in Pittsburgh to begin the season. This same Pitt team beat Notre Dame (who also beat Mich St & Arizona St).

FSU beat Clemson 51-14 in Death Valley. This same Clemson team beat Georgia who, over the following 4 weeks, beat South Carolina and LSU. Even after the injuries hit they still came within a hail mary of beating Auburn. Clemson went into Columbia, SC and played a very competitive game against SC. I don't recall see the Gamecocks destroy Clemson like FSU did.

FSU beat Miami 41-14. This same Miami team beat Florida when Florida was still a decent team. After the Gators lost to Miami, they won three straight games (Tenn, Arkansas, Kentucky) before starting their downward spiral.

Speaking of Florida, FSU beat them 37-7 in Gainesville. As I said above, Florida started 4-1 before their downward spiral. Even in their losing streak they were competitive. They were within a score of LSU in the 4th quarter. They came all the way back and almost beat Georgia. They were beating SC until 7 mins left in the 4th quarter in COLUMBIA. Yet, FSU beat them by 30 in Gainesville.

FSU beat Maryland 63-0 who beat WV the previous week by 37. That same WV team beat Oklahoma St the very next week. Also, WV only lost to one other team in convincing fashion...Baylor. Every other game on the schedule was fairly competitive.

FSU beat Wake Forest 59-3. That same Wake Forest team lost on a last minute field goal at Vandy.


Say what you want about FSU's soft schedule. The fact remains the teams they beat were very competitive with most of the teams on their schedule. Even a lot of their opponents' opponents were competitive. You're only looking at this from a wins-losses perspective. I'm looking at it from competitiveness. That's a better indicator of dominance.
12-03-2013 07:19 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Why FSU is #1 and there's no debate
(12-03-2013 07:19 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-03-2013 12:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2013 09:28 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-02-2013 09:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2013 08:40 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  But that's part of the story. They aren't the only ones that have played a "weak" schedule over the past 50 years. Yet, they have been the most dominant.

Problem is, the ability to RUTS against a bad team isn't indicative of ability to beat good teams.

Wasn't the point of the thread. The point of the thread was pointing out how this level of domination is unprecedented.

No, the point of the thread was to cite this alleged "unprecedented domination" to justify FSU as most deserving of being #1.

That implication begs the questions of what it means to be dominant, and as I and others have shown, merely looking at the MOV number is no more meaningful than merely looking at records. You have to factor in SOS, as it should be plain as day that having an MOV of 15 vs a tough schedule is more "dominant" than having an MOV of 20 versus a soft schedule, etc.

You still don't get it. Other teams have had "softer" schedules and didn't dominate like this. And the domination isn't alleged. It's pure fact.

You still don't get it: Nobody is saying FSU hasn't been more dominant than many teams over the years. It has. But that's a far cry from saying they should be called the MOST dominant team ever. E.g., as others have explained, Nebraska 1995's MOV number is clearly more impressive than FSU's, because Nebraska played a tougher schedule.

Whether any other school's MOV numbers are more or less impressive than FSU's would have to be evaluated case-by-case, factoring in SOS.
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2013 08:35 AM by quo vadis.)
12-03-2013 08:35 AM
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LSU04_08 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Why FSU is #1 and there's no debate
(12-03-2013 07:19 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-03-2013 12:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2013 09:28 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-02-2013 09:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2013 08:40 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  But that's part of the story. They aren't the only ones that have played a "weak" schedule over the past 50 years. Yet, they have been the most dominant.

Problem is, the ability to RUTS against a bad team isn't indicative of ability to beat good teams.

Wasn't the point of the thread. The point of the thread was pointing out how this level of domination is unprecedented.

No, the point of the thread was to cite this alleged "unprecedented domination" to justify FSU as most deserving of being #1.

That implication begs the questions of what it means to be dominant, and as I and others have shown, merely looking at the MOV number is no more meaningful than merely looking at records. You have to factor in SOS, as it should be plain as day that having an MOV of 15 vs a tough schedule is more "dominant" than having an MOV of 20 versus a soft schedule, etc.

You still don't get it. Other teams have had "softer" schedules and didn't dominate like this. And the domination isn't alleged. It's pure fact. The teams that FSU hasn't beaten this year, while not world beaters, have shown themselves to be very competitive. They may not win those games but they're not getting beat by 25 or 50 points a game.

FSU beat Pitt 41-13 in Pittsburgh to begin the season. This same Pitt team beat Notre Dame (who also beat Mich St & Arizona St).

FSU beat Clemson 51-14 in Death Valley. This same Clemson team beat Georgia who, over the following 4 weeks, beat South Carolina and LSU. Even after the injuries hit they still came within a hail mary of beating Auburn. Clemson went into Columbia, SC and played a very competitive game against SC. I don't recall see the Gamecocks destroy Clemson like FSU did.

FSU beat Miami 41-14. This same Miami team beat Florida when Florida was still a decent team. After the Gators lost to Miami, they won three straight games (Tenn, Arkansas, Kentucky) before starting their downward spiral.

Speaking of Florida, FSU beat them 37-7 in Gainesville. As I said above, Florida started 4-1 before their downward spiral. Even in their losing streak they were competitive. They were within a score of LSU in the 4th quarter. They came all the way back and almost beat Georgia. They were beating SC until 7 mins left in the 4th quarter in COLUMBIA. Yet, FSU beat them by 30 in Gainesville.

FSU beat Maryland 63-0 who beat WV the previous week by 37. That same WV team beat Oklahoma St the very next week. Also, WV only lost to one other team in convincing fashion...Baylor. Every other game on the schedule was fairly competitive.

FSU beat Wake Forest 59-3. That same Wake Forest team lost on a last minute field goal at Vandy.


Say what you want about FSU's soft schedule. The fact remains the teams they beat were very competitive with most of the teams on their schedule. Even a lot of their opponents' opponents were competitive. You're only looking at this from a wins-losses perspective. I'm looking at it from competitiveness. That's a better indicator of dominance.

Do you really go by the MOV the teams that FSU beat, beat other teams by, that beat other teams by, that beat other teams who lost to another team that was walloped by FSU and using an 8 loss Florida team that got beat by Miami "back when Florida was good?"

Over-analyze much? You sound exactly like a 2012 Notre Dame fan... FSU is not the most dominant team, not even for this decade, much less, ever.
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2013 09:57 AM by LSU04_08.)
12-03-2013 09:55 AM
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loki_the_bubba Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Why FSU is #1 and there's no debate
(12-01-2013 02:46 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  I've seen a few question their schedule, but we could be witnessing the most dominant season in history.

Most of us can probably remember the 1995 Nebraska team that crushed everyone. They won by an avg. of 38.7 points a game. That was probably the last ridiculously dominating team until this year. FSU is currently winning by an avg. of 42.7 points per game. If that holds up, it may be the most dominant year ever.

The most dominant season ever was Sewanee in 1899.
12-03-2013 11:57 AM
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