I have a solution ... hold the game on a neutral field somewhere between Houston and West Virginia. I vote New Orleans, I hear it is a nice city to visit...

(12-01-2013 10:54 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 09:28 AM)clarkent Wrote:  If it comes down to computer rankings (http://www.bcsfootball.org/news/story?id=4765872) here is where we were before yesterday's games:

Sagarin: Marshall 53, RICE 72
Anderson & Hester: RICE 55, Marshall 72
Billingsley: RICE 52, Marshall 70
Colley: RICE 53, Marshall 65
Massey: Marshall 68, RICE 69
Wolfe: RICE 56, Marshall 64

RICE: 52, 53, 55, 56, 69, 72 = 58.25 AVG (after highest and lowest dropped)
Marshall: 53, 64, 65, 68, 70, 72 = 64.25 AVG (after highest and lowest dropped)

And that's precisely why the "objective", non-biased computers are no better than the human polls. Note that these 6 computer rankings range from having Rice 18 spot better than Marshall to Rice 19 place worse than Marshall. That's a 37 spot range differential for teams ranked within the Top 72. Quite a deviation amongst the computers.

The middle of the bell curve is very dense!

Why didn't they just agree to alternate east and west hosts, unless one team was ranked xx places higher in some combination of computer polls? Honestly, Rice being 1-10 spots higher than Marshall means nothing other than that they had different schedules against different opponents, but are otherwise very close.

(12-01-2013 10:58 AM)mrbig Wrote:  Why didn't they just agree to alternate east and west hosts, unless one team was ranked xx places higher in some combination of computer polls? Honestly, Rice being 1-10 spots higher than Marshall means nothing other than that they had different schedules against different opponents, but are otherwise very close.

Or we could have a mid-season all star game to decide who gets home field advantage for the championship.

Oh wait ... that's just too darn silly. No major sport would resort to that kind of BS

That list is incorrect. Rice was above Marshall in the version of the Sagarin poll used in the BCS. The one where margin of victory is not taken into account. Make that correction and the computer rankings agree reasonably well.

Jerry Palm's updated rankings from yesterday...

Rice #55, Marshall #65

Assumes no top-25 votes for either team.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...a_txt_0001

While I saw the Massey Rating out, he has a special one used for BCS and I didn't see that published. It's linked to below.

Sagarin: RICE 56, Marshall 58
Anderson & Hester: (RICE 55, Marshall 72)
Billingsley: (RICE 52, Marshall 70)
Colley: (RICE 53, Marshall 65)
Massey: (RICE 64, Marshall 77)
Wolfe: (RICE 56, Marshall 64)

BOLD = This week's numbers
(Italic Parenthetical = Last week's numbers)

Links to current rankings:
Sagarin (use last column - ELO): http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/
Anderson & Hester: http://www.andersonsports.com/football/ACF_frnk.html
Billingsley: http://www.cfrc.com/Ratings_2013/WK_14.htm
Colley: http://www.colleyrankings.com/currank.html
Massey: http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg...=FBS&mid=6
Wolfe: http://prwolfe.bol.ucla.edu/cfootball/ratings.htm#first

(12-01-2013 08:21 AM)wheredidmypantsgo Wrote:  Don't hate the player, hate the game.... of course Bailiff should vote for Rice. I get that some of you guys trying to take the high road, but doing so leaves open the chance that Rice gets screwed. You cannot take that risk.

You are saying that we should screw over Marshall instead. Marshall doesn't deserve that any more than we deserve to have it done to us.

(12-01-2013 02:51 PM)Caelligh Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 08:21 AM)wheredidmypantsgo Wrote:  Don't hate the player, hate the game.... of course Bailiff should vote for Rice. I get that some of you guys trying to take the high road, but doing so leaves open the chance that Rice gets screwed. You cannot take that risk.

You are saying that we should screw over Marshall instead. Marshall doesn't deserve that any more than we deserve to have it done to us.

Well, we did have it done to us...so how do you feel now?

(12-01-2013 02:51 PM)Caelligh Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 08:21 AM)wheredidmypantsgo Wrote:  Don't hate the player, hate the game.... of course Bailiff should vote for Rice. I get that some of you guys trying to take the high road, but doing so leaves open the chance that Rice gets screwed. You cannot take that risk.

You are saying that we should screw over Marshall instead. Marshall doesn't deserve that any more than we deserve to have it done to us.

It's not about what is deserved.

We did not get screwed.

disregard

(12-01-2013 02:56 PM)At Ease Wrote:  We did not get screwed.

I'm not sure how you figute that. Marshall just jumped 39 spots in the BCS rankings-- and gained 20 spots vis-a-vis Rice-- with their home win over ECU, despite the fact Rice had a home win this past weekend, as well. Yes, the ECU win was a signature win, and a very convincing one at that, but to jump so many spots based on one home victory is a bit ridiculous.

Based on the two computer rankings out so far, it appears Rice will be ranked higher than Marshall based on the more objective (and less biased) computer rankings (as opposed to the coaches poll where votes can be lobbied for amongst friends).

(12-01-2013 02:59 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 02:56 PM)At Ease Wrote:  We did not get screwed.

I'm not sure how you figute that. Marshall just jumped 39 spots in the BCS rankings-- and gained 20 spots vis-a-vis Rice-- with their home win over ECU, despite the fact Rice had a home win this past weekend, as well. Yes, the ECU win was a signature win, and a very convincing one at that, but to jump so many spots based on one home victory is a bit ridiculous.

Based on the two computer rankings out so far, it appears Rice will be ranked higher than Marshall based on the more objective (and less biased) computer rankings (as opposed to the coaches poll where votes can be lobbied for amongst friends).

I agree... this is wrong in so many ways...........

So, despite the computers ranking Rice higher than Marshall, Marshall not only gets the huge of advantage of playing at home and in front of their loyal fans (while Rice makes the difficult travel by plane and bus to Huntington), but Rice will likely have to play in the cold (for which they are unfamiliar and totally unaccustomed) and, if the forecast is correct, the snow as well.

Talk about a home field advantage.

Beat North Texas and we don't get screwed

(12-01-2013 02:59 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 02:56 PM)At Ease Wrote:  We did not get screwed.

I'm not sure how you figute that. Marshall just jumped 39 spots in the BCS rankings-- and gained 20 spots vis-a-vis Rice-- with their home win over ECU, despite the fact Rice had a home win this past weekend, as well. Yes, the ECU win was a signature win, and a very convincing one at that, but to jump so many spots based on one home victory is a bit ridiculous.

Based on the two computer rankings out so far, it appears Rice will be ranked higher than Marshall based on the more objective (and less biased) computer rankings (as opposed to the coaches poll where votes can be lobbied for amongst friends).

Clearly there are issues when the best CUSA teams aren't that good and aren't ranked, and single top 25 votes can create such chaos. Things should probably be re-evaluated, as this is likely to be the norm going forward.

But as posted in the other thread, any non-superficial analysis of the 12 games these teams played indicates to me (emphasis) that Marshall was an easily better team than Rice through the regular season. Obviously this has been reflected as well by the input of the coaches, where nobody has found us worthy of the Top 25, and a few seem to find Marshall (and the team they just annihilated, ECU).

The RPI in baseball is also more objective and less biased than the slew of college baseball polls, yet we're very familiar with how nuanced their use should be every year come tournament time.

It is the system we have..however flawed it may be. Marshall won in a flawed system vs. using RPI or some other more 'objective' metric.

We are seeing why it is going away soon. Coaches polls are self-serving. You only rank the teams you have seen and thus rank the teams you are playing. It only helps you (your team, your job, your fans, etc.) to rank teams you have played or will be playing higher. Coaches are working preparing their team and whoever they are playing all week. They don't get to see all teams/games. Bailiff was working yesterday while Auburn/Alabama was on, but yet he gets to vote on who is better even though he did not most likely see more than the Sportscenter highlights. It is normal for him to be positively biased towards the coaches he knows (e.g., Mack, Sumlin, etc.) At least w/ the writers poll, the sample size is big enough to remove individual bias to a better weighted average.

But to have a team like Marshall jump that many spots in an overall ranking when the computers only moved you a few spots is wrong. Someday, someone can explain why the 'humans' have such a disproportionate say in 'others receiving votes' formula than just the straight top-25 counting towards the top (which I understand for the big time rankings) but we now have to live with it. Does anyone believe Marshall is better than Notre Dame, Va Tech (who they lost to), Ole Miss, Nebraska, and Michigan? They are ranked higher than all of these teams with the 130-something strength of schedule. That is wrong but at end-of-day, we lost to NT. That was the difference.

It is what it is..so we have to live w/ it. We had a bad team go to Huntington two-years ago and were a late game McG fumble from getting a W so the veteran guys are not going to be scared or intimidated. Marshall has had trouble with good running teams all season (they lost to MTSU). The seniors who have been to Huntington before know we can win there.

(12-01-2013 03:15 PM)At Ease Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 02:59 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 02:56 PM)At Ease Wrote:  We did not get screwed.

I'm not sure how you figute that. Marshall just jumped 39 spots in the BCS rankings-- and gained 20 spots vis-a-vis Rice-- with their home win over ECU, despite the fact Rice had a home win this past weekend, as well. Yes, the ECU win was a signature win, and a very convincing one at that, but to jump so many spots based on one home victory is a bit ridiculous.

Based on the two computer rankings out so far, it appears Rice will be ranked higher than Marshall based on the more objective (and less biased) computer rankings (as opposed to the coaches poll where votes can be lobbied for amongst friends).

Clearly there are issues when the best CUSA teams aren't that good and aren't ranked, and single top 25 votes can create such chaos. Things should probably be re-evaluated, as this is likely to be the norm going forward.

But as posted in the other thread, any non-superficial analysis of the 12 games these teams played indicates to me (emphasis) that Marshall was an easily better team than Rice through the regular season.

The RPI in baseball is also more objective and less biased than the slew of college baseball polls, yet we're very familiar with how nuanced their use should be every year come tournament time.

Sorry, but I disagree with you. Both Rice and Marshall are better at home (as is the case with almost every football program), but the discrepency in Marshall's play at home vs. road is much greater than that of Rice. Not only are both of Marshall's losses on the road (blown out by Ohio and OT loss to VaTech), but of three of their four road wins were nailbiters against rather weak opposition (FAU, Middle Tennessee and Tulsa). Their only immpressive road win was against 1-11 FIU.

No question they have a quality offense and a very balanced offensive attack, but their defense is definitely susceptable on the road against even solid opposition.

To be fair, Marshall's loses came by a combined 8 points...

(12-01-2013 03:07 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  So, despite the computers ranking Rice higher than Marshall, Marshall not only gets the huge of advantage of playing at home and in front of their loyal fans (while Rice makes the difficult travel by plane and bus to Huntington), but Rice will likely have to play in the cold (for which they are unfamiliar and totally unaccustomed) and, if the forecast is correct, the snow as well.

Talk about a home field advantage.

Ok. I am not speaking to who should be ranked above who and where the game should be played, but I have seen this "tough trip" to Marshall stuff several times in the thread.

Does Rice not charter flights? If so, then yes it would be tough, but if you charter the team will fly into Huntington, WV (Less than 2.5 hour direct flight)! Bus 10 minutes to the hotel/stadium and be set. What long bus ride are you talking about?

Its a three hour trip from a Houston airport to the Huntington hotel.