(12-01-2013 06:22 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 04:40 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I don't think Ohio State should get a shot….there should be a penalty for playing a bunch of losers at Ohio Stadium. OSU wants 8 home games and usually stocks them with dregs, that's fine, but they shouldn't gripe when they get left out of the NCG due to a POS schedule. It would be one thing if OSU scheduled some good programs in the OOC that just happen to have down years, I could understand but playing Kent St, Bowling Green, and Devry aren't going to help you get the nod for a NCG. And they sure as heck don't get you ready for the SEC (see OSU's bowl record vs the SEC as Exhibit A).

I'm not about to defend Ohio St.'s schedule. But if you weren't a jealous Cincinnati fan, it would be hard to see much difference between:
Buffalo, San Diego St., Florida A&M, Cal
Murray St., Toledo, Arkansas St., Indiana
W. Carolina, Florida Atlantic, Arkansas St., Washington St.
Virginia Tech, Georgia State, Chattanooga, Colorado St.
Nevada, Idaho, Bethune-Cookman, Florida

For anyone who's curious, that's Ohio St., Missouri, Auburn, Alabama, Florida St., the 5 teams who almost certainly will comprise the BCS title game. For good measure, Oklahoma St. who gets in only with a bunch of upsets and a desire to avoid an Alabama/Auburn rematch-Lamar, UTSA, Mississippi St. (+1 extra conference game).

You should have stopped there….because everything after that is you defending OSU POS schedule.

I don't like OSU, it's true, but my opinion of the school doesn't change the fact that they have played a poor schedule AND looked bad doing it. FSU, Bama, Auburn, Mizzou all deserve a title shot before OSU. Again, you want to bring Devry and ITT Tech into the Horseshoe for lambs to the slaughter so all the people in Cbus can feel good about themselves, go for it, but don't ***** when you get jumped by a team from a real conference.

Look, if OSU beats Sparty by a decent margin, they're in.

But if you have a weak OOC schedule, the strength of your conference matters. Otherwise, why isn't NIU in the NCG discussion.

Don't know why anyone bothers to try to explain reality to these whiny little Cincy people.

(12-01-2013 04:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 01:41 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I love how people whom have most likely not watched a single Ohio State game, except maybe for the Michigan game, think they know how Ohio State stacks up against Florida State.

They don't have to know H1. They know how the Buckeyes have stacked up next to of one of the weakest schedules in the history of the BCS.

Ohio State will play Florida State if they beat Michigan State. Simple as that.

(12-01-2013 09:28 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 04:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 01:41 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I love how people whom have most likely not watched a single Ohio State game, except maybe for the Michigan game, think they know how Ohio State stacks up against Florida State.

They don't have to know H1. They know how the Buckeyes have stacked up next to of one of the weakest schedules in the history of the BCS.

Ohio State will play Florida State if they beat Michigan State. Simple as that.

It depends H1. Right now the voters are splitting votes between Auburn, Missouri, and Alabama. After next week they will all be behind 1 team. The gap in the Polls could favor Auburn by a good bit more, or Missouri by a good bit more. Should Ohio State play a poor game against Michigan Street but win and either Missouri or Auburn has a big game in the SEC championship, the jump could still take place. Simple as that.

(12-01-2013 09:28 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 04:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 01:41 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I love how people whom have most likely not watched a single Ohio State game, except maybe for the Michigan game, think they know how Ohio State stacks up against Florida State.

They don't have to know H1. They know how the Buckeyes have stacked up next to of one of the weakest schedules in the history of the BCS.

Ohio State will play Florida State if they beat Michigan State. Simple as that.

You are 100% correct my friend!

(12-01-2013 06:21 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 02:58 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  If OSU beats Mich State then they deserve a shot. You can't go undefeated two years in a row and not have one.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

They started the season at #2. If we were comparing all one and two loss teams here then there's a good argument that a one-loss Ohio State doesn't make it. But undefeated; history says they deserve a chance.

They played Iowa at home. Iowa is probably the best 4-loss team in the country.

If Michigan State can't stop their offense, Florida State won't.

To be fair, OSU could not go to a Bowl last year. If they could have, it probably would have been OSU v. Notre Dame for the title. It seemed OSU was being penalized more for the sanctions than any on the field issues. This year, it is more about on the field, but its hard to say whether anyone is right or wrong.

As to my 2 cents...

Everyone wants to draw sweeping conclusions based on sparse evidence. In statistics, there's something referred to as statistical significance. It basically tried to address how confident one can be about something based on the numbers. The small the sample size, the lower the statistical significance. Since most BCS teams spend most of their season playing inside the conference, its hard to say how good one conference is against another. And since most out of conference games are against terrible teams, people try to read way more than they should into the few decent out of conference match-ups. Problem is, no one can really say anything with any certainty given the lack of information. Yeah, there's at least good evidence to suggest the SEC is superior to the Big 10. But there's no real evidence that OSU is better or worse than Auburn. It's all guesswork. At least somewhat educated guesswork, but it's still way more guess than truth. But Auburn lost and OSU did not. So if I had to choose, I'd err for the team that did not falter. Which means OSU....if they can win against MSU.

(12-01-2013 08:53 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 06:22 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 04:40 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I don't think Ohio State should get a shot….there should be a penalty for playing a bunch of losers at Ohio Stadium. OSU wants 8 home games and usually stocks them with dregs, that's fine, but they shouldn't gripe when they get left out of the NCG due to a POS schedule. It would be one thing if OSU scheduled some good programs in the OOC that just happen to have down years, I could understand but playing Kent St, Bowling Green, and Devry aren't going to help you get the nod for a NCG. And they sure as heck don't get you ready for the SEC (see OSU's bowl record vs the SEC as Exhibit A).

I'm not about to defend Ohio St.'s schedule. But if you weren't a jealous Cincinnati fan, it would be hard to see much difference between:
Buffalo, San Diego St., Florida A&M, Cal
Murray St., Toledo, Arkansas St., Indiana
W. Carolina, Florida Atlantic, Arkansas St., Washington St.
Virginia Tech, Georgia State, Chattanooga, Colorado St.
Nevada, Idaho, Bethune-Cookman, Florida

For anyone who's curious, that's Ohio St., Missouri, Auburn, Alabama, Florida St., the 5 teams who almost certainly will comprise the BCS title game. For good measure, Oklahoma St. who gets in only with a bunch of upsets and a desire to avoid an Alabama/Auburn rematch-Lamar, UTSA, Mississippi St. (+1 extra conference game).

You should have stopped there….because everything after that is you defending OSU POS schedule.

I don't like OSU, it's true, but my opinion of the school doesn't change the fact that they have played a poor schedule AND looked bad doing it. FSU, Bama, Auburn, Mizzou all deserve a title shot before OSU. Again, you want to bring Devry and ITT Tech into the Horseshoe for lambs to the slaughter so all the people in Cbus can feel good about themselves, go for it, but don't ***** when you get jumped by a team from a real conference.

Still too jealous to understand. All 5 played weak schedules. What Ohio St. did is the same thing as those 5, so their ooc is no justification for jumping them.

(12-02-2013 12:38 AM)Jericho Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 06:21 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 02:58 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  If OSU beats Mich State then they deserve a shot. You can't go undefeated two years in a row and not have one.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

They started the season at #2. If we were comparing all one and two loss teams here then there's a good argument that a one-loss Ohio State doesn't make it. But undefeated; history says they deserve a chance.

They played Iowa at home. Iowa is probably the best 4-loss team in the country.

If Michigan State can't stop their offense, Florida State won't.

To be fair, OSU could not go to a Bowl last year. If they could have, it probably would have been OSU v. Notre Dame for the title. It seemed OSU was being penalized more for the sanctions than any on the field issues. This year, it is more about on the field, but its hard to say whether anyone is right or wrong.

As to my 2 cents...

Everyone wants to draw sweeping conclusions based on sparse evidence. In statistics, there's something referred to as statistical significance. It basically tried to address how confident one can be about something based on the numbers. The small the sample size, the lower the statistical significance. Since most BCS teams spend most of their season playing inside the conference, its hard to say how good one conference is against another. And since most out of conference games are against terrible teams, people try to read way more than they should into the few decent out of conference match-ups. Problem is, no one can really say anything with any certainty given the lack of information. Yeah, there's at least good evidence to suggest the SEC is superior to the Big 10. But there's no real evidence that OSU is better or worse than Auburn. It's all guesswork. At least somewhat educated guesswork, but it's still way more guess than truth. But Auburn lost and OSU did not. So if I had to choose, I'd err for the team that did not falter. Which means OSU....if they can win against MSU.

Good logic. Befitting a Rice fan.

Congrats on the CUSA division championship!

Its very difficult to go undefeated against any schedule. Ask Fresno St. (or about 100 other teams who have fallen short at the end of a season). And the general consensus of who is better has been quite frequently been proven wrong. Remember Miami-Ohio St.? Ohio St. had no chance. Or Ohio ST.-Florida when Michigan really was the 2nd best team, not Florida? Or the best team in college football history-USC 2005 (they forgot to tell Texas and Vince Young)? So you have to go with a major unbeaten over a 1 loss team.

(12-02-2013 12:38 AM)Jericho Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 06:21 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 02:58 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  If OSU beats Mich State then they deserve a shot. You can't go undefeated two years in a row and not have one.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

They started the season at #2. If we were comparing all one and two loss teams here then there's a good argument that a one-loss Ohio State doesn't make it. But undefeated; history says they deserve a chance.

They played Iowa at home. Iowa is probably the best 4-loss team in the country.

If Michigan State can't stop their offense, Florida State won't.

To be fair, OSU could not go to a Bowl last year. If they could have, it probably would have been OSU v. Notre Dame for the title. It seemed OSU was being penalized more for the sanctions than any on the field issues. This year, it is more about on the field, but its hard to say whether anyone is right or wrong.

As to my 2 cents...

Everyone wants to draw sweeping conclusions based on sparse evidence. In statistics, there's something referred to as statistical significance. It basically tried to address how confident one can be about something based on the numbers. The small the sample size, the lower the statistical significance. Since most BCS teams spend most of their season playing inside the conference, its hard to say how good one conference is against another. And since most out of conference games are against terrible teams, people try to read way more than they should into the few decent out of conference match-ups. Problem is, no one can really say anything with any certainty given the lack of information. Yeah, there's at least good evidence to suggest the SEC is superior to the Big 10. But there's no real evidence that OSU is better or worse than Auburn. It's all guesswork. At least somewhat educated guesswork, but it's still way more guess than truth. But Auburn lost and OSU did not. So if I had to choose, I'd err for the team that did not falter. Which means OSU....if they can win against MSU.

Texas A&M?

Southern Cal?

Georgia?

Minnesota?

Notre Dame?

Vanderbilt?

Washington?

Virginia Tech?

(12-02-2013 08:18 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 08:53 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 06:22 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 04:40 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I don't think Ohio State should get a shot….there should be a penalty for playing a bunch of losers at Ohio Stadium. OSU wants 8 home games and usually stocks them with dregs, that's fine, but they shouldn't gripe when they get left out of the NCG due to a POS schedule. It would be one thing if OSU scheduled some good programs in the OOC that just happen to have down years, I could understand but playing Kent St, Bowling Green, and Devry aren't going to help you get the nod for a NCG. And they sure as heck don't get you ready for the SEC (see OSU's bowl record vs the SEC as Exhibit A).

I'm not about to defend Ohio St.'s schedule. But if you weren't a jealous Cincinnati fan, it would be hard to see much difference between:
Buffalo, San Diego St., Florida A&M, Cal
Murray St., Toledo, Arkansas St., Indiana
W. Carolina, Florida Atlantic, Arkansas St., Washington St.
Virginia Tech, Georgia State, Chattanooga, Colorado St.
Nevada, Idaho, Bethune-Cookman, Florida

For anyone who's curious, that's Ohio St., Missouri, Auburn, Alabama, Florida St., the 5 teams who almost certainly will comprise the BCS title game. For good measure, Oklahoma St. who gets in only with a bunch of upsets and a desire to avoid an Alabama/Auburn rematch-Lamar, UTSA, Mississippi St. (+1 extra conference game).

You should have stopped there….because everything after that is you defending OSU POS schedule.

I don't like OSU, it's true, but my opinion of the school doesn't change the fact that they have played a poor schedule AND looked bad doing it. FSU, Bama, Auburn, Mizzou all deserve a title shot before OSU. Again, you want to bring Devry and ITT Tech into the Horseshoe for lambs to the slaughter so all the people in Cbus can feel good about themselves, go for it, but don't ***** when you get jumped by a team from a real conference.

Still too jealous to understand. All 5 played weak schedules. What Ohio St. did is the same thing as those 5, so their ooc is no justification for jumping them.

Don't confuse OOC schedule with overall schedule. Both Ohio State and Auburn played weak OOC schedules, but Auburn has played a far tougher overall schedule, and that is what matters.

I'll take Auburn playing 3 bowl teams OOC over Ohio St's 2.

(12-01-2013 08:56 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Look, if OSU beats Sparty by a decent margin, they're in.

But if you have a weak OOC schedule, the strength of your conference matters. Otherwise, why isn't NIU in the NCG discussion.

This ^^^

I saw a post on my news feed, from an Ohio State fan, that read, "Ohio State playing for a BCS National Championship!!!" Talk about counting your chickens before they hatch, especially if tOSU plays a bad game and Aub plays a good game, or if tOSU loses... tOSU beat one ranked team (#21), by one touchdown. Aub has beaten three ranked teams, which includes the former #1. And while Aub plays #5 this weekend, tOSU plays #10. A better showing by Aub could easily put them ahead of tOSU.

(12-02-2013 10:39 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 08:56 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Look, if OSU beats Sparty by a decent margin, they're in.

But if you have a weak OOC schedule, the strength of your conference matters. Otherwise, why isn't NIU in the NCG discussion.

This ^^^

I saw a post on my news feed, from an Ohio State fan, that read, "Ohio State playing for a BCS National Championship!!!" Talk about counting your chickens before they hatch, especially if tOSU plays a bad game and Aub plays a good game, or if tOSU loses... tOSU beat one ranked team (#21), by one touchdown. Aub has beaten three ranked teams, which includes the former #1. And while Aub plays #5 this weekend, tOSU plays #10. A better showing by Aub could easily put them ahead of tOSU.

as much as i hate ohio state. if they win out they should not be passed by a 1-loss team.

if you say otherwise you are basically saying that no matter what a b10 team does (win 20 something straight) they shouldnt have a shot to win the natty

(12-02-2013 08:18 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 08:53 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 06:22 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 04:40 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I don't think Ohio State should get a shot….there should be a penalty for playing a bunch of losers at Ohio Stadium. OSU wants 8 home games and usually stocks them with dregs, that's fine, but they shouldn't gripe when they get left out of the NCG due to a POS schedule. It would be one thing if OSU scheduled some good programs in the OOC that just happen to have down years, I could understand but playing Kent St, Bowling Green, and Devry aren't going to help you get the nod for a NCG. And they sure as heck don't get you ready for the SEC (see OSU's bowl record vs the SEC as Exhibit A).

I'm not about to defend Ohio St.'s schedule. But if you weren't a jealous Cincinnati fan, it would be hard to see much difference between:
Buffalo, San Diego St., Florida A&M, Cal
Murray St., Toledo, Arkansas St., Indiana
W. Carolina, Florida Atlantic, Arkansas St., Washington St.
Virginia Tech, Georgia State, Chattanooga, Colorado St.
Nevada, Idaho, Bethune-Cookman, Florida

For anyone who's curious, that's Ohio St., Missouri, Auburn, Alabama, Florida St., the 5 teams who almost certainly will comprise the BCS title game. For good measure, Oklahoma St. who gets in only with a bunch of upsets and a desire to avoid an Alabama/Auburn rematch-Lamar, UTSA, Mississippi St. (+1 extra conference game).

You should have stopped there….because everything after that is you defending OSU POS schedule.

I don't like OSU, it's true, but my opinion of the school doesn't change the fact that they have played a poor schedule AND looked bad doing it. FSU, Bama, Auburn, Mizzou all deserve a title shot before OSU. Again, you want to bring Devry and ITT Tech into the Horseshoe for lambs to the slaughter so all the people in Cbus can feel good about themselves, go for it, but don't ***** when you get jumped by a team from a real conference.

Still too jealous to understand. All 5 played weak schedules. What Ohio St. did is the same thing as those 5, so their ooc is no justification for jumping them.

There are differences in those OOC schedules, but they are closer to slight differences, rather than moderate differences. That said Bullet, the real difference is the total schedule. Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, and Illinois are proving to be 4 fairly weak to very weak conference games. Penn State is just a hamstrung shadow of themselves. Michigan and Iowa are average games at best. Wisconsin is finishing just slightly better than Iowa and Michigan. And, who knows what Michigan State has their schedule in conference may not even be better than that of the Buckeyes and their loss is to a 4 loss Notre Dame team. That is the elephant in the room that is not being focused on here. And that is quite different than playing the Western Division of the SEC (Arkansas excluded). Remember when it is all done Georgia is the equivalent record wise of Wisconsin, Ole Miss the equivalent of Iowa. Tennessee is the equivalent of Indiana. Arkansas was better than Purdue. And the rest (L.S.U., Alabama, Texas A&M, and Miss State are all Bowl eligible, as are Georgia and Ole Miss) is all on Auburn's side including who they play in the CCG. And that by anyone's measure is a big big difference.

If the Buckeyes get in so be it. The hangover issue will be that the Big 10 will then have no incentive to clean up what is a ridiculous OOC schedule which in light of the overall weakness of the conference needs at least 1 marquee game on each schedule. The SOS is an issue but it is a comprehensive problem not just an OOC one.

(12-02-2013 10:48 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(12-02-2013 10:39 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 08:56 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Look, if OSU beats Sparty by a decent margin, they're in.

But if you have a weak OOC schedule, the strength of your conference matters. Otherwise, why isn't NIU in the NCG discussion.

This ^^^

I saw a post on my news feed, from an Ohio State fan, that read, "Ohio State playing for a BCS National Championship!!!" Talk about counting your chickens before they hatch, especially if tOSU plays a bad game and Aub plays a good game, or if tOSU loses... tOSU beat one ranked team (#21), by one touchdown. Aub has beaten three ranked teams, which includes the former #1. And while Aub plays #5 this weekend, tOSU plays #10. A better showing by Aub could easily put them ahead of tOSU.

as much as i hate ohio state. if they win out they should not be passed by a 1-loss team.

if you say otherwise you are basically saying that no matter what a b10 team does (win 20 something straight) they shouldnt have a shot to win the natty

I don't even hate Ohio State, but it's like starting #2 and playing nobody. Like Lazybrook said, if strength of schedule didn't matter, why isn't NIU up there in the conversation? Plus last year, tOSU struggled heavily with some poor teams, and they haven't dominated average teams. They just haven't had much competition, that's all.

(12-02-2013 10:39 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 08:56 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Look, if OSU beats Sparty by a decent margin, they're in.

But if you have a weak OOC schedule, the strength of your conference matters. Otherwise, why isn't NIU in the NCG discussion.

This ^^^

I saw a post on my news feed, from an Ohio State fan, that read, "Ohio State playing for a BCS National Championship!!!" Talk about counting your chickens before they hatch, especially if tOSU plays a bad game and Aub plays a good game, or if tOSU loses... tOSU beat one ranked team (#21), by one touchdown. Aub has beaten three ranked teams, which includes the former #1. And while Aub plays #5 this weekend, tOSU plays #10. A better showing by Aub could easily put them ahead of tOSU.

After the coaches poll came out yesterday, I thought the same. But after the Harris and computers came out, it is clear that the overall BCS gap is pretty significant.

In short, if OSU beats MSU, they are very likely to make the BCS title game. It will take a very significant shift in voters to put Auburn in, and that is unlikely to happen even if OSU barely squeaks by MSU and Auburn beats Mizzou impressively.

(12-02-2013 11:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-02-2013 10:39 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 08:56 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Look, if OSU beats Sparty by a decent margin, they're in.

But if you have a weak OOC schedule, the strength of your conference matters. Otherwise, why isn't NIU in the NCG discussion.

This ^^^

I saw a post on my news feed, from an Ohio State fan, that read, "Ohio State playing for a BCS National Championship!!!" Talk about counting your chickens before they hatch, especially if tOSU plays a bad game and Aub plays a good game, or if tOSU loses... tOSU beat one ranked team (#21), by one touchdown. Aub has beaten three ranked teams, which includes the former #1. And while Aub plays #5 this weekend, tOSU plays #10. A better showing by Aub could easily put them ahead of tOSU.

After the coaches poll came out yesterday, I thought the same. But after the Harris and computers came out, it is clear that the overall BCS gap is pretty significant.

In short, if OSU beats MSU, they are very likely to make the BCS title game. It will take a very significant shift in voters to put Auburn in, and that is unlikely to happen even if OSU barely squeaks by MSU and Auburn beats Mizzou impressively.

Which is why their OOC is important. In the present Big 10 a weak Ohio State team cannot be tested by an even weaker conference. Therefore judging their relative strength is impossible if they play one of the poorest OOC schedules in the nation, especially since they are considered to be a traditional power and there is no excuse for it.

(12-02-2013 11:09 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(12-02-2013 10:48 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(12-02-2013 10:39 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 08:56 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Look, if OSU beats Sparty by a decent margin, they're in.

But if you have a weak OOC schedule, the strength of your conference matters. Otherwise, why isn't NIU in the NCG discussion.

This ^^^

I saw a post on my news feed, from an Ohio State fan, that read, "Ohio State playing for a BCS National Championship!!!" Talk about counting your chickens before they hatch, especially if tOSU plays a bad game and Aub plays a good game, or if tOSU loses... tOSU beat one ranked team (#21), by one touchdown. Aub has beaten three ranked teams, which includes the former #1. And while Aub plays #5 this weekend, tOSU plays #10. A better showing by Aub could easily put them ahead of tOSU.

as much as i hate ohio state. if they win out they should not be passed by a 1-loss team.

if you say otherwise you are basically saying that no matter what a b10 team does (win 20 something straight) they shouldnt have a shot to win the natty

I don't even hate Ohio State, but it's like starting #2 and playing nobody. Like Lazybrook said, if strength of schedule didn't matter, why isn't NIU up there in the conversation? Plus last year, tOSU struggled heavily with some poor teams, and they haven't dominated average teams. They just haven't had much competition, that's all.

hey dont blame me for N. illinois.......

im a huge proponent of the mentality that no undefeated should be passed over for a 1-loss

if there were only 2 undefeated teams and one of them was NIU......we can have this conversation ==> but as it stands now theres 3 and the 2 with the hardest SOS should get in.