Although it's still November, all the enthusiasm so many of us had for the Johnnies upcoming season, is being drained little by little after each lackluster performance. For the sixth consecutive game, they came out flat in the first half, and a furious second half comeback attempt came up short as they fell tonight in overtime to Penn St. In their four wins, against four cupcakes, they've played uninspired, flat basketball, finding themselves trailing a couple of times in the second half. Against better competition they've fared no better. They don't defend the three against anyone, and coming into tonights game they were the third worst team in the nation shooting the three themselves, although they did shoot it well tonight. There are way too many undisciplined, idiotic mistakes, like tonights foul by Sampson behind the three point line with 8 seconds to go and a two point lead. ( All three foul shots were made) Even in games they won, they're heaving up three's when they should be running clock, it's like there's no fundamental understanding of the game. In each game they play, they're clearly the more athletic team, they can all run and jump out of the gym, but playing good team basketball is another story. So far the only thing that's been note worthy about heralded recruit Rysheed Jordon, is his getting suspended three games into the season, although he is back now. The past two years, the teams youth and lack of depth, were reasonable excuses for the teams lack of success. This year though, they have a couple of seasons under their belt, and there's plenty of depth, so thats no longer an excuse. Lavin's been great at getting the four star recruits to commit, now it's time to mold them into a basketball team and start beating some teams that actually have a pulse. It's probably in the whole leagues interest to see St. Johns have a successful season. People will be curious to see what kind of buzz the BE tournament has this year without a lot of old familiar faces. Having St. Johns captivating NYC's interest come tournament time would count for a lot. In any case, for six games now we've seen nothing but sloppy, uninspired basketball from this group. It's time to get serious and start playing basketball from the opening tip, and playing up to the potential we've been hearing so much about for so long. Enough is enough.

I agree with everything you wrote, Hoops. I was high on St. John's this year. Picked them to finish 4th in the conference behind Georgetown, Villanova, and Creighton and ahead of PC and Marquette. I thought sky's the limit and expected to see them ranked.

In light of all that, I was surprised to hear Lavin tell Franesa earlier this week - before the Penn State loss - that he thought the program was a year ahead of schedule. So, in his mind, he's expected them to struggle at times this year.

The cynic in me says that's just the Lavin protecting his job. Your doctor and your basketball coach both prepare you with worst case prognosis so they look like miracle workers when you do better than expected.

But he does have a point. The most important position on the floor is in the hands of a freshman - a freshman whom Lavin has had to suspend. And from what I can see so far, Jordan is not the answer at the point. Maybe that's why Lavin has limited his role by using his big men in a passing role off the high post.

Jordan may have a big up side down the road as a scorer, but he's not been the answer at the team's QB so far. Contrast him with Nova's Ryan Arcidiacono as freshman last year, who was immediately a coach on the floor. He didn't always make the right decisions, but he was always in charge even as he was learning on the floor. Jordan brings none of that regardless of whether he's the better athlete. Add to that what RA can do in the big spot as we saw tonight and we have a player whom other kids will look to as a leader. That's what SJU needs. And that's not something the coach can simply manufacture.

(11-30-2013 04:23 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  I agree with everything you wrote, Hoops. I was high on St. John's this year. Picked them to finish 4th in the conference behind Georgetown, Villanova, and Creighton and ahead of PC and Marquette. I thought sky's the limit and expected to see them ranked.

In light of all that, I was surprised to hear Lavin tell Franesa earlier this week - before the Penn State loss - that he thought the program was a year ahead of schedule. So, in his mind, he's expected them to struggle at times this year.

The cynic in me says that's just the Lavin protecting his job. Your doctor and your basketball coach both prepare you with worst case prognosis so they look like miracle workers when you do better than expected.

But he does have a point. The most important position on the floor is in the hands of a freshman - a freshman whom Lavin has had to suspend. And from what I can see so far, Jordan is not the answer at the point. Maybe that's why Lavin has limited his role by using his big men in a passing role off the high post.

Jordan may have a big up side down the road as a scorer, but he's not been the answer at the team's QB so far. Contrast him with Nova's Ryan Arcidiacono as freshman last year, who was immediately a coach on the floor. He didn't always make the right decisions, but he was always in charge even as he was learning on the floor. Jordan brings none of that regardless of whether he's the better athlete. Add to that what RA can do in the big spot as we saw tonight and we have a player whom other kids will look to as a leader. That's what SJU needs. And that's not something the coach can simply manufacture.

You make some good points Melky, although I think it might be a bit unfair to pin too much of this on Jordan, since he is a freshman with only six games under his belt. Supposedly he runs home to Philly every chance he gets, I'm hoping that's not due to his not having bonded much with his teammates. He has an amazing ability to get to the basket, but Lavin seems to have held the reins on him. You're right about Arcidiacono, early last year he was sometimes shaky, taking way too many ill-advised shots, but he grew into his role, and Nova was a much improved team the second half of last season. However, with them losing Yarou and St. Johns adding the pieces they did, I honestly expected the Johnnies to be the better team this year.

I also heard the Lavin interview with Francesa, but I took Lavin's comments to mean he thought recruiting was a year ahead of schedule. I think he knows he's expected to make some noise with this team. Part of my uneasiness concerns Lavin's bench coaching skills. The perimeter defense is simply awful. You and I could get open looks against that zone.

Other problems include Sampson not producing the way he should. He was pretty much automatic with that little 12-14 foot jumper he had, but this year he's playing much further from the basket, I'm hoping that's not to impress the NBA scouts that he has more range than they think. But he's been invisible too much of the time. Obekpa is a human highlight reel with all the blocked shots, but many of those come from behind or the side, when he's been beaten on defense. I'd like to see him focus more on fundamental rebounding, although last night he did give a solid effort in that department.

And finally, as you mentioned, they really need more on court leadership. I'm thinking Harrison might be the right player for that role. He seem to have made huge strides in maturity from last year. Someone needs to take charge out there and get these guys playing at the level they're capable of. This ship needs to be righted ASAP

(11-30-2013 04:23 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  I agree with everything you wrote, Hoops. I was high on St. John's this year. Picked them to finish 4th in the conference behind Georgetown, Villanova, and Creighton and ahead of PC and Marquette. I thought sky's the limit and expected to see them ranked.

In light of all that, I was surprised to hear Lavin tell Franesa earlier this week - before the Penn State loss - that he thought the program was a year ahead of schedule. So, in his mind, he's expected them to struggle at times this year.

The cynic in me says that's just the Lavin protecting his job. Your doctor and your basketball coach both prepare you with worst case prognosis so they look like miracle workers when you do better than expected.

But he does have a point. The most important position on the floor is in the hands of a freshman - a freshman whom Lavin has had to suspend. And from what I can see so far, Jordan is not the answer at the point. Maybe that's why Lavin has limited his role by using his big men in a passing role off the high post.

Jordan may have a big up side down the road as a scorer, but he's not been the answer at the team's QB so far. Contrast him with Nova's Ryan Arcidiacono as freshman last year, who was immediately a coach on the floor. He didn't always make the right decisions, but he was always in charge even as he was learning on the floor. Jordan brings none of that regardless of whether he's the better athlete. Add to that what RA can do in the big spot as we saw tonight and we have a player whom other kids will look to as a leader. That's what SJU needs. And that's not something the coach can simply manufacture.

You make some good points Melky, although I think it might be a bit unfair to pin too much of this on Jordan, since he is a freshman with only six games under his belt. Supposedly he runs home to Philly every chance he gets, I'm hoping that's not due to his not having bonded much with his teammates. He has an amazing ability to get to the basket, but Lavin seems to have held the reins on him. You're right about Arcidiacono, early last year he was sometimes shaky, taking way too many ill-advised shots, but he grew into his role, and Nova was a much improved team the second half of last season. However, with them losing Yarou and St. Johns adding the pieces they did, I honestly expected the Johnnies to be the better team this year.

I also heard the Lavin interview with Francesa, but I took Lavin's comments to mean he thought recruiting was a year ahead of schedule. I think he knows he's expected to make some noise with this team. Part of my uneasiness concerns Lavin's bench coaching skills. The perimeter defense is simply awful. You and I could get open looks against that zone.

Other problems include Sampson not producing the way he should. He was pretty much automatic with that little 12-14 foot jumper he had, but this year he's playing much further from the basket, I'm hoping that's not to impress the NBA scouts that he has more range than they think. But he's been invisible too much of the time. Obekpa is a human highlight reel with all the blocked shots, but many of those come from behind or the side, when he's been beaten on defense. I'd like to see him focus more on fundamental rebounding, although last night he did give a solid effort in that department.

And finally, as you mentioned, they really need more on court leadership. I'm thinking Harrison might be the right player for that role. He seem to have made huge strides in maturity from last year. Someone needs to take charge out there and get these guys playing at the level they're capable of. This ship needs to be righted ASAP

I was all on board for Lavin in his first three years but this season he's showing no sign of being able to teach these kids how to play the game. Losing Dunlap hurt us more than one can say in words. Michael Jordan ruined this team for nothing more than one season of futility in the NBA. I wish Dunlap would come back but I know that ship has sailed. We brought in a top assistant from SLU who we all thought would install a nice half court O to help these kids actually transform into a real life basketball team, but that clearly isn't the case.

If we miss the NCAA's this season (That is a definite possibility) Lavin will and SHOULD be on the hot seat. Our AD Chris Monash should really start looking around at who could possibly fill that position and teach these kids how to properly play the game and beat the teams they should beat. Losing to Penn State is a horrendous loss. Letting them score over 80 points is also pathetic. Stupid fouls, poor free throw shooting, bad shot decisions and a lack of ability to play a whole game is whats killing this team. It's not an easy fix. I have yet to see these juniors play a whole game. I see no change from their freshman year until now. Same players doing the same silly things.

It's going to be a looooong season, thats for sure. Kind of regret buying tix to the Cuse game. They are going to run us out of our own building all while taunting us. Ugh

(11-30-2013 11:08 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I was all on board for Lavin in his first three years but this season he's showing no sign of being able to teach these kids how to play the game. Losing Dunlap hurt us more than one can say in words. Michael Jordan ruined this team for nothing more than one season of futility in the NBA. I wish Dunlap would come back but I know that ship has sailed. We brought in a top assistant from SLU who we all thought would install a nice half court O to help these kids actually transform into a real life basketball team, but that clearly isn't the case.

If we miss the NCAA's this season (That is a definite possibility) Lavin will and SHOULD be on the hot seat. Our AD Chris Monash should really start looking around at who could possibly fill that position and teach these kids how to properly play the game and beat the teams they should beat. Losing to Penn State is a horrendous loss. Letting them score over 80 points is also pathetic. Stupid fouls, poor free throw shooting, bad shot decisions and a lack of ability to play a whole game is whats killing this team. It's not an easy fix. I have yet to see these juniors play a whole game. I see no change from their freshman year until now. Same players doing the same silly things.

It's going to be a looooong season, thats for sure. Kind of regret buying tix to the Cuse game. They are going to run us out of our own building all while taunting us. Ugh

I feel your pain RedMan. Before the season started I thought Syracuse was one of the games on the schedule we would win. Now it looks like it has the potential to get pretty ugly. I have tickets to MSG for the Fordham game next Saturday, and I'm worried we'll be getting taunted even by them. Also agree 100% about Dunlap being a huge loss. It was his game plan a few seasons ago, that had us blowing Duke out at MSG in one of the more pleasant games in recent memory. We haven't had an x's and o's guy like him since. Let's hope we're both wrong and that things will start getting better soon.

(11-30-2013 11:08 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I was all on board for Lavin in his first three years but this season he's showing no sign of being able to teach these kids how to play the game. Losing Dunlap hurt us more than one can say in words. Michael Jordan ruined this team for nothing more than one season of futility in the NBA. I wish Dunlap would come back but I know that ship has sailed. We brought in a top assistant from SLU who we all thought would install a nice half court O to help these kids actually transform into a real life basketball team, but that clearly isn't the case.

If we miss the NCAA's this season (That is a definite possibility) Lavin will and SHOULD be on the hot seat. Our AD Chris Monash should really start looking around at who could possibly fill that position and teach these kids how to properly play the game and beat the teams they should beat. Losing to Penn State is a horrendous loss. Letting them score over 80 points is also pathetic. Stupid fouls, poor free throw shooting, bad shot decisions and a lack of ability to play a whole game is whats killing this team. It's not an easy fix. I have yet to see these juniors play a whole game. I see no change from their freshman year until now. Same players doing the same silly things.

It's going to be a looooong season, thats for sure. Kind of regret buying tix to the Cuse game. They are going to run us out of our own building all while taunting us. Ugh

I was ticked off when SLU lost Whitesell. He did a lot of our gameplanning last year. You can see a definite difference in our play this year. You guys will like having him around. He was an extension of Majerus on the sidelines.

(11-30-2013 10:31 AM)hoops22 Wrote:  

(11-30-2013 04:23 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  I agree with everything you wrote, Hoops. I was high on St. John's this year. Picked them to finish 4th in the conference behind Georgetown, Villanova, and Creighton and ahead of PC and Marquette. I thought sky's the limit and expected to see them ranked.

In light of all that, I was surprised to hear Lavin tell Franesa earlier this week - before the Penn State loss - that he thought the program was a year ahead of schedule. So, in his mind, he's expected them to struggle at times this year.

The cynic in me says that's just the Lavin protecting his job. Your doctor and your basketball coach both prepare you with worst case prognosis so they look like miracle workers when you do better than expected.

But he does have a point. The most important position on the floor is in the hands of a freshman - a freshman whom Lavin has had to suspend. And from what I can see so far, Jordan is not the answer at the point. Maybe that's why Lavin has limited his role by using his big men in a passing role off the high post.

Jordan may have a big up side down the road as a scorer, but he's not been the answer at the team's QB so far. Contrast him with Nova's Ryan Arcidiacono as freshman last year, who was immediately a coach on the floor. He didn't always make the right decisions, but he was always in charge even as he was learning on the floor. Jordan brings none of that regardless of whether he's the better athlete. Add to that what RA can do in the big spot as we saw tonight and we have a player whom other kids will look to as a leader. That's what SJU needs. And that's not something the coach can simply manufacture.

You make some good points Melky, although I think it might be a bit unfair to pin too much of this on Jordan, since he is a freshman with only six games under his belt. Supposedly he runs home to Philly every chance he gets, I'm hoping that's not due to his not having bonded much with his teammates. He has an amazing ability to get to the basket, but Lavin seems to have held the reins on him. You're right about Arcidiacono, early last year he was sometimes shaky, taking way too many ill-advised shots, but he grew into his role, and Nova was a much improved team the second half of last season. However, with them losing Yarou and St. Johns adding the pieces they did, I honestly expected the Johnnies to be the better team this year.

I also heard the Lavin interview with Francesa, but I took Lavin's comments to mean he thought recruiting was a year ahead of schedule. I think he knows he's expected to make some noise with this team. Part of my uneasiness concerns Lavin's bench coaching skills. The perimeter defense is simply awful. You and I could get open looks against that zone.

Other problems include Sampson not producing the way he should. He was pretty much automatic with that little 12-14 foot jumper he had, but this year he's playing much further from the basket, I'm hoping that's not to impress the NBA scouts that he has more range than they think. But he's been invisible too much of the time. Obekpa is a human highlight reel with all the blocked shots, but many of those come from behind or the side, when he's been beaten on defense. I'd like to see him focus more on fundamental rebounding, although last night he did give a solid effort in that department.

And finally, as you mentioned, they really need more on court leadership. I'm thinking Harrison might be the right player for that role. He seem to have made huge strides in maturity from last year. Someone needs to take charge out there and get these guys playing at the level they're capable of. This ship needs to be righted ASAP

Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking Jordan. He's a very good player. I just haven't seen him demonstrating point guard skills, which is what he was advertised to be. I see him as a 2-guard and not as a natural point. So, my question is whether St. John's even has a true PG on the roster. I'm not seeing that they recruited anyone as a PG over the last 4 years other than Jordan. That seems to be the missing piece to me. I only mentioned Arcidiacono because even with his mistakes, you could see from day one that he was a natural point and that he was very comfortable with running the team.

I know that Villanova lost Yarou, but that's all they lost. As important as his inside physicality was to them, I think they have enough else to make up for that loss. If there iw one coach that I have faith in to be able to coach a smaller lineup to great heights, it's Jay Wright. I picked Villanova #2 behind Georgetown, but based on the early results, they're emerging as the top team in the conference in my view.

I too expected a lot of the Johnnies, but I picked them at #4 because they have greater development to achieve than more experienced teams like Georgetown, Villanova, and Creighton. They've slipped in the early going from where I thought they would be. I haven't given up on their potential, but they have a lot of work to do.

Big East isn't looking too hot….

(11-30-2013 06:32 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Big East isn't looking too hot….

Not at all.

Well, after the first 3 weeks, Nova is a pretty clear favorite now.

tomorrow a huge day with
Providence/Kentucky
Marquette/San Diego St
Butler/LSU

all as huge games. And even DePaul/Oregon St(kind of game we need DePaul to win). A Providence win (coupled with Nova winning this weekend vs Kansas and Iowa)- and a Marquette win- and we get 2 of the big preseason tournaments.

(12-01-2013 01:47 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Well, after the first 3 weeks, Nova is a pretty clear favorite now.

tomorrow a huge day with
Providence/Kentucky
Marquette/San Diego St
Butler/LSU

all as huge games. And even DePaul/Oregon St(kind of game we need DePaul to win). A Providence win (coupled with Nova winning this weekend vs Kansas and Iowa)- and a Marquette win- and we get 2 of the big preseason tournaments.

I'm liking both Butler's and PC's chances for upsets today. A win over Kentucky in particular would feel really good.