(11-25-2013 09:16 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(11-24-2013 11:26 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Princeton probably hasn't had a single player get drafted early... so they're taking 4-5 years of classes... I suspect graduating to a high degree (90%+?) whether or not they were "exceptions".

Safe to assume there are very few (and likely zero) exceptions in the Ivy League. It uses an academic index method with a minimum of 171.

It is possible to qualify a valedictorian with what we would consider to be low scores (920 on the 1600 scale SAT). But I'm not sure many of those people exist (ie, how many high schools are there where the valedictorian doesn't score at least 1000)

The more B's you have on your transcript--or the lower you go in your class rank--the higher scores you need on standardized tests to offset it

Part of the reason I put "exception" in quotes is that I meant outside THEIR norm and not outside any traditional norm. I think you'd be surprised to find that many of their athletes are well below their traditional norm. Like us, they value the WHOLE person and realize that someone trying to excel in two activities (athletics AND academics) will suffer somewhat in both versus someone who only has to/chooses to focus on one.

Thrill needs work on his headline writing. I was very disappointed I had to go to google to find this...

(11-23-2013 04:52 PM)johncatworth Wrote:  For comparison, according to this (below) in 2010-11 Duke's athletic budget was 67 million in expenses, 68 mil in revenue, far below FSU's 87 Million but significantly above the 42 million at Wake. The Chron says UH's budget was 25 million in an 09 article, and Baylor at 60 million in 2012, 14 million on football alone (up from 7.5 million in 95).

Does anyone have recent comparable figures for Rice?

ACC http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2012/3...gets-10-11

UH http://www.chron.com/sports/rice/article...681490.php

BU http://www.ethicsdaily.com/baptist-colle...-cms-19518

109 public uni's http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=208&f=2745&t=5759722

Duke Athletics is (or at least was, 20 years ago) very unique within the NCAA. Prior to the creation of the BCS, I believe Duke stood alone among the top grossing athletic programs in the US insofar as (1) their football team was terrible and a non-contributor to their revenue, and (2) much of their income came from apparel licensing - perhaps only Notre Dame was comparable among private institutions. Their strength came from a high performing basketball program alone, and having a pretty cool logo that they were able to market nationwide. I believe their revenue back in the early 1990s was somewhere in the $30-40 million range, perhaps 60-80% of UT's revenue at the time.

(11-25-2013 12:14 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Part of the reason I put "exception" in quotes is that I meant outside THEIR norm and not outside any traditional norm. I think you'd be surprised to find that many of their athletes are well below their traditional norm. Like us, they value the WHOLE person and realize that someone trying to excel in two activities (athletics AND academics) will suffer somewhat in both versus someone who only has to/chooses to focus on one.

Got it. that is spot on. In fact, the whole system is designed so that the athletes as a group have an average academic index within one standard deviation of the campus mean (the particulars for football are a bit more complicated and net out to a slightly wider gap).

An Ivy AD is, in part, a portfolio manager. Every athlete he can matriculate with a 2400 SAT gives him a spot to recruit a 1900 or so.

The Ivies are very upfront that their athletes have test scores below the campus mean--but well above the level required to be successful academically.

(11-25-2013 02:04 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 12:14 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Part of the reason I put "exception" in quotes is that I meant outside THEIR norm and not outside any traditional norm. I think you'd be surprised to find that many of their athletes are well below their traditional norm. Like us, they value the WHOLE person and realize that someone trying to excel in two activities (athletics AND academics) will suffer somewhat in both versus someone who only has to/chooses to focus on one.

Got it. that is spot on. In fact, the whole system is designed so that the athletes as a group have an average academic index within one standard deviation of the campus mean (the particulars for football are a bit more complicated and net out to a slightly wider gap).

An Ivy AD is, in part, a portfolio manager. Every athlete he can matriculate with a 2400 SAT gives him a spot to recruit a 1900 or so.

The Ivies are very upfront that their athletes have test scores below the campus mean--but well above the level required to be successful academically.

I think our model is somewhat similar to this... Stanford takes it even a step further as I understand it... and has many many many Olympic sports than we or the ivies do to create those "opportunities". This is one of the reasons I want us to spend more NOT just on football, but sports where the overall additional investment isn't that high... hoping I don't prove my ignorance here, but bowling, fencing, badminton, shooting, men's swimming, rugby, men's soccer, cycling, Field Hockey, LAX, Cheer (if it becomes an ncaa sport) come to mind. Things that could use existing real estate. ALL of these things could help us with that 2400/1900 thing.

Rice and the Ivies are probably similar in that they will admit only those who are expected to have the ability to graduate. They might not end up at the top of the class, but they will probably graduate which is unlike what many ESUs do which is use up the eligibility of someone who is not eve college material and then kick them out in the cold.

Speaking of Duke, the Saturday Chronicle briefly mentioned that Chystal Magnum, the accuser of the lacrosse players, has been sentenced to 14-18 years in prison for the murder of her boyfriend. Being falsely aaccused was not the danger of being around her. Duke really disgraced itself by letting the politically correct get rid of the lacrosse players before finding out the real story.

(11-25-2013 09:16 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(11-24-2013 11:26 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Princeton probably hasn't had a single player get drafted early... so they're taking 4-5 years of classes... I suspect graduating to a high degree (90%+?) whether or not they were "exceptions".

Safe to assume there are very few (and likely zero) exceptions in the Ivy League. It uses an academic index method with a minimum of 171.

It is possible to qualify a valedictorian with what we would consider to be low scores (920 on the 1600 scale SAT). But I'm not sure many of those people exist (ie, how many high schools are there where the valedictorian doesn't score at least 1000)

The more B's you have on your transcript--or the lower you go in your class rank--the higher scores you need on standardized tests to offset it