Attended a barbaque yesterday south of Pittsburgh and a man noticed my WVU shirt and congratulated me on the Mountaineers fine season....turns out he was a Penn St season ticket holder and we immediatly started talking about the old days of the Eastern Indys.....Of course this lead me to ask him how happy the Nits are in the Big 10....As an older fan he said that he missed the days of the Big 4 (Penn St, Pitt, Syracuse and WVU) but that the current BE did not really appeal to him.....Even he said it would be a hard sell to the alums and fans to stop playing in front of huge crowds at (for example) Purdue and Wisconsin and play @ Uconn and Rutgers.... and wasn't impressed with the addition former CUSA football members and the fact that Temple was kicked out.....He was quick to blame the BE football problems on Pitt for joining the BE (shocker I Know ;-) )

---I felt this gentlemen was a solid represenation of the attitudes of the Nit fan base and felt like sharing....sounded to me like even the older fans who remember the Eastern indys are content with PSUs current arrangment


Jackson

Jackson, it just strengthens the argument for Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia and Louisville to force the BE to add Memphis and ECU! PSU, ND, BC and Maryland are not joining the Big East in our life times.

Jackson1011 Wrote:... and wasn't impressed with the addition former CUSA football members and the fact that Temple was kicked out...

So, does this mean he's more impressed with Temple than with UL, USF, or UC? Whatever...

I think is time all current Big East members start looking towards the future and not the past. as was stated before PSU,ND nor Maryland will be joining the BE.
So for the Big East to establish itself as a football conference it will eventually have to split from the basketball schools and grow with schools that at ALL in the same boat about football and other sports.
I know tigershark disagrees and so others and MT etc keeps saying that it will not happen but i think youll see it come 2010.
Lets just wait and see but having HALF a league not interested in the bigggest money making sport is NOT conductive to growth.

Jackson1011 Wrote:Attended a barbaque yesterday south of Pittsburgh and a man noticed my WVU shirt and congratulated me on the Mountaineers fine season....turns out he was a Penn St season ticket holder and we immediatly started talking about the old days of the Eastern Indys.....Of course this lead me to ask him how happy the Nits are in the Big 10....As an older fan he said that he missed the days of the Big 4 (Penn St, Pitt, Syracuse and WVU) but that the current BE did not really appeal to him.....Even he said it would be a hard sell to the alums and fans to stop playing in front of huge crowds at (for example) Purdue and Wisconsin and play @ Uconn and Rutgers.... and wasn't impressed with the addition former CUSA football members and the fact that Temple was kicked out.....He was quick to blame the BE football problems on Pitt for joining the BE (shocker I Know ;-) )

---I felt this gentlemen was a solid represenation of the attitudes of the Nit fan base and felt like sharing....sounded to me like even the older fans who remember the Eastern indys are content with PSUs current arrangment


Jackson

If I were a Nit fan, I wouldn't want PSU to join the Big East either - although playing UConn and Rutgers I imagine would be no worse than playing Northwestern and Indiana.

His 'loyalty' to Temple doesn't seem to jive with his wanting to play to sold out stadiums either.

But still, the current confederation of Big East teams at this moment in time would not be appealing.

And while it is highly unlikely any Eastern football team outside of Penn State will ever reach the attendance figures of a Michigan or a Ohio State, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that West Virginia, Louisville, and Pitt could get to mid 60s in a short period of time (provided stadium expansion takes place where needed).

Also, I suspect Syracuse will return to crowds in the mid 40K to upper 40K within 5 years and USF and UConn could exceed those marks in that time frame (again if expansion takes place where needed).

Rutgers and Cincinnati are the question marks in this area, particularly the Bearcats. But even here, both play in areas that could draw well, if they provide an exciting enough product on the field and rivalries and interest develop with other teams in the conference.

I think this is why the Big East football schools appear to be willing to wait and see what develops. If nothing much changes, you and Wilkie are right. The football schools will never interest the likes of PSU, MD, BC, etc., into joining with them to form an EAC.

On the other hand, a decade ago, the same thing would have been definitely said about the ACC taking Miami, VT, and BC in as members. Things can change over time.

Expand the northeastern viewers' interest in college football to proportionately match their interest in Big East basketball and perhaps that tune will change.

As I've already addressed in several posts over the past few years, college football viewership in the South and Midwest is about at maximum. To significantly increase viewership, there must be interest developed in the sport on the West Coast and in the major northeastern population centers.

The Big 10 knew this when they grabbed Penn State and wait for ND.

The ACC reaffirmed this when they went after Miami, BC, and Syracuse in an attempt to destroy the Big East as a player in the college football.

Now, somehow, the Big East football schools must tap into these markets for their own survival - and at time when it appears Penn State, Notre Dame, and Boston College are relatively strong. Accomplish the task while this is true will garner new-found respect for the league.

And don't underestimate the ESPN hype machine. If they can be turned to our favor, they can certainly accelerate that success.

Cheers,
Neil

I think Memphis, ECU and UCF are all already in. I think the issue is ND and the fourth team, if ND stays independent.

PSU will never leave the Big 10 unless they can remain part of the CIC. It has been a driving force in them improving their academic ratings and the faculty would revolt if they tried to leave.

PSU's all sports conference shared all revenue but FB, which at the time was the only money generating sport at PSU. So it was really just a ploy by Paterno to get the other schools in the East to subsidize PSU athletics.

BJUnklFkr Wrote:So, does this mean he's more impressed with Temple than with UL, USF, or UC? Whatever...

You need to understand something. It was an old time rivalry between state schools for this guy.

omnicarrier Wrote:If I were a Nit fan, I wouldn't want PSU to join the Big East either - although playing UConn and Rutgers I imagine would be no worse than playing Northwestern and Indiana.

His 'loyalty' to Temple doesn't seem to jive with his wanting to play to sold out stadiums either.

But still, the current confederation of Big East teams at this moment in time would not be appealing.

You forgot about something. Temple always sells out their stadium whenever Penn State visits.

Cubanbull Wrote:I think is time all current Big East members start looking towards the future and not the past. as was stated before PSU,ND nor Maryland will be joining the BE.
So for the Big East to establish itself as a football conference it will eventually have to split from the basketball schools and grow with schools that at ALL in the same boat about football and other sports.
I know tigershark disagrees and so others and MT etc keeps saying that it will not happen but i think youll see it come 2010.
Lets just wait and see but having HALF a league not interested in the bigggest money making sport is NOT conductive to growth.

I agree. I mean, really, it's over. Penn State isn't coming. And, really, who cares what Penn State and their fans think. It just makes the Big East look like they have an inferiority complex when they keep running up to Penn State officials and fans and meekly asking them about the Big East, as if the Big East needs their approval or needs to be in their good graces or something. The old Eastern Conference alignment is a thing of the past. Living in the past isn't helping anybody. Lets just move on and make this conference one of the elite. We're already one of the Big Six.

Wilkie01 Wrote:I think Memphis, ECU and UCF are all already in. I think the issue is ND and the fourth team, if ND stays independent.

I love ya Wilkie but you're so far off base its not even funny.

Lolly Popp Wrote:

BJUnklFkr Wrote:So, does this mean he's more impressed with Temple than with UL, USF, or UC? Whatever...

You need to understand something. It was an old time rivalry between state schools for this guy.

omnicarrier Wrote:If I were a Nit fan, I wouldn't want PSU to join the Big East either - although playing UConn and Rutgers I imagine would be no worse than playing Northwestern and Indiana.

His 'loyalty' to Temple doesn't seem to jive with his wanting to play to sold out stadiums either.

But still, the current confederation of Big East teams at this moment in time would not be appealing.

You forgot about something. Temple always sells out their stadium whenever Penn State visits.

Penn State sells out all northeastern stadiums ;-)

Their alumni are all over the Northeast.

Cheers,
Neil

Shannon Panther Wrote:PSU will never leave the Big 10 unless they can remain part of the CIC. It has been a driving force in them improving their academic ratings and the faculty would revolt if they tried to leave.

PSU's all sports conference shared all revenue but FB, which at the time was the only money generating sport at PSU. So it was really just a ploy by Paterno to get the other schools in the East to subsidize PSU athletics.

The CIC remains the #1 academic consortium in the U.S. at this moment in time. But by its very exclusivity, it will be unlikely that will continue forever - partly because there simply is not enough diversity with those 12 institutions.

The federal government is looking for more cross-discipline approaches to research that involve not just academic institutions but partnerships with both the public and private sectors; businesses; and local and state governments - even global participation.

Right now the ACC is looking at a combined consortium between their league and the Big East, but if that should not happen, there are other avenues.

New York's Centers of Excellence (located along the Hudson River) are just now starting to develop. The Centers of Excellence combine both public and private institutions (including Ivy League schools) in the state as well as governmental agencies and businesses.

The original concept for the Syracuse Center of Excellence was the Northeast Environmental Systems Institute (NESI) - in other words, it was not to be restricted by local or state regionality - but meant to be multi-state.

Once established, look for new Centers of Excellence to be developed along the Delaware and an effort to involve the Delaware River states of Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and Maryland.

If that then proves successfully, don't be surprised to see other such northeastern consortiums develop along the Connecticut, Susquehanna, Allegheny, and Ohio Rivers.

If nothing else, the development of other consortiums will force the CIC to respond by changing its 'exclusivity' clause or be passed. They have set the blueprint, but they haven't taken it to the next level.

Cheers,
Neil

omnicarrier Wrote:

Lolly Popp Wrote:

BJUnklFkr Wrote:So, does this mean he's more impressed with Temple than with UL, USF, or UC? Whatever...

You need to understand something. It was an old time rivalry between state schools for this guy.

omnicarrier Wrote:If I were a Nit fan, I wouldn't want PSU to join the Big East either - although playing UConn and Rutgers I imagine would be no worse than playing Northwestern and Indiana.

His 'loyalty' to Temple doesn't seem to jive with his wanting to play to sold out stadiums either.

But still, the current confederation of Big East teams at this moment in time would not be appealing.

You forgot about something. Temple always sells out their stadium whenever Penn State visits.

Penn State sells out all northeastern stadiums ;-)

Their alumni are all over the Northeast.

Cheers,
Neil

They have about a 167 branch campuses at every cross road in the Commonwealth. They ought to have alumni everywhere.

Maybe after Jopa retires, the nostalgia topics will be retired too.

L-yes Wrote:

Wilkie01 Wrote:I think Memphis, ECU and UCF are all already in. I think the issue is ND and the fourth team, if ND stays independent.

I love ya Wilkie but you're so far off base its not even funny.

Only time will tell. :shhh:

omnicarrier Wrote:

Jackson1011 Wrote:Attended a barbaque yesterday south of Pittsburgh and a man noticed my WVU shirt and congratulated me on the Mountaineers fine season....turns out he was a Penn St season ticket holder and we immediatly started talking about the old days of the Eastern Indys.....Of course this lead me to ask him how happy the Nits are in the Big 10....As an older fan he said that he missed the days of the Big 4 (Penn St, Pitt, Syracuse and WVU) but that the current BE did not really appeal to him.....Even he said it would be a hard sell to the alums and fans to stop playing in front of huge crowds at (for example) Purdue and Wisconsin and play @ Uconn and Rutgers.... and wasn't impressed with the addition former CUSA football members and the fact that Temple was kicked out.....He was quick to blame the BE football problems on Pitt for joining the BE (shocker I Know ;-) )

---I felt this gentlemen was a solid represenation of the attitudes of the Nit fan base and felt like sharing....sounded to me like even the older fans who remember the Eastern indys are content with PSUs current arrangment


Jackson

If I were a Nit fan, I wouldn't want PSU to join the Big East either - although playing UConn and Rutgers I imagine would be no worse than playing Northwestern and Indiana.

His 'loyalty' to Temple doesn't seem to jive with his wanting to play to sold out stadiums either.

But still, the current confederation of Big East teams at this moment in time would not be appealing.

And while it is highly unlikely any Eastern football team outside of Penn State will ever reach the attendance figures of a Michigan or a Ohio State, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that West Virginia, Louisville, and Pitt could get to mid 60s in a short period of time (provided stadium expansion takes place where needed).

Also, I suspect Syracuse will return to crowds in the mid 40K to upper 40K within 5 years and USF and UConn could exceed those marks in that time frame (again if expansion takes place where needed).

Rutgers and Cincinnati are the question marks in this area, particularly the Bearcats. But even here, both play in areas that could draw well, if they provide an exciting enough product on the field and rivalries and interest develop with other teams in the conference.

I think this is why the Big East football schools appear to be willing to wait and see what develops. If nothing much changes, you and Wilkie are right. The football schools will never interest the likes of PSU, MD, BC, etc., into joining with them to form an EAC.

On the other hand, a decade ago, the same thing would have been definitely said about the ACC taking Miami, VT, and BC in as members. Things can change over time.

Expand the northeastern viewers' interest in college football to proportionately match their interest in Big East basketball and perhaps that tune will change.

As I've already addressed in several posts over the past few years, college football viewership in the South and Midwest is about at maximum. To significantly increase viewership, there must be interest developed in the sport on the West Coast and in the major northeastern population centers.

The Big 10 knew this when they grabbed Penn State and wait for ND.

The ACC reaffirmed this when they went after Miami, BC, and Syracuse in an attempt to destroy the Big East as a player in the college football.

Now, somehow, the Big East football schools must tap into these markets for their own survival - and at time when it appears Penn State, Notre Dame, and Boston College are relatively strong. Accomplish the task while this is true will garner new-found respect for the league.

And don't underestimate the ESPN hype machine. If they can be turned to our favor, they can certainly accelerate that success.

Cheers,
Neil

I'd have to imagine that playing "little brother" Rutgers and UConn would be more appealing than Northwestern or Indiana simply because the competition is better and the fanbases are growing etc. There's also some tradition with Rutgers across sports offerings. I'd say Rutgers isn't a question mark, our attendance has steadily risen under Schiano if for no other reason than the team has begun to turn the corner. Give us two seasons of straight sellouts and/or a 25K or more season ticket base and some expansion will begin to occur at Rutgers Stadium. The place is supposedly capable of 80K if need be. I don't know if we'll 80K needs anytime soon but adding another section to each end of the lower tier is certainly within the realm of possibility. That would likely raise stadium capacity from 42K to around 48K.

brista21 Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

Jackson1011 Wrote:Attended a barbaque yesterday south of Pittsburgh and a man noticed my WVU shirt and congratulated me on the Mountaineers fine season....turns out he was a Penn St season ticket holder and we immediatly started talking about the old days of the Eastern Indys.....Of course this lead me to ask him how happy the Nits are in the Big 10....As an older fan he said that he missed the days of the Big 4 (Penn St, Pitt, Syracuse and WVU) but that the current BE did not really appeal to him.....Even he said it would be a hard sell to the alums and fans to stop playing in front of huge crowds at (for example) Purdue and Wisconsin and play @ Uconn and Rutgers.... and wasn't impressed with the addition former CUSA football members and the fact that Temple was kicked out.....He was quick to blame the BE football problems on Pitt for joining the BE (shocker I Know ;-) )

---I felt this gentlemen was a solid represenation of the attitudes of the Nit fan base and felt like sharing....sounded to me like even the older fans who remember the Eastern indys are content with PSUs current arrangment


Jackson

If I were a Nit fan, I wouldn't want PSU to join the Big East either - although playing UConn and Rutgers I imagine would be no worse than playing Northwestern and Indiana.

His 'loyalty' to Temple doesn't seem to jive with his wanting to play to sold out stadiums either.

But still, the current confederation of Big East teams at this moment in time would not be appealing.

And while it is highly unlikely any Eastern football team outside of Penn State will ever reach the attendance figures of a Michigan or a Ohio State, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that West Virginia, Louisville, and Pitt could get to mid 60s in a short period of time (provided stadium expansion takes place where needed).

Also, I suspect Syracuse will return to crowds in the mid 40K to upper 40K within 5 years and USF and UConn could exceed those marks in that time frame (again if expansion takes place where needed).

Rutgers and Cincinnati are the question marks in this area, particularly the Bearcats. But even here, both play in areas that could draw well, if they provide an exciting enough product on the field and rivalries and interest develop with other teams in the conference.

I think this is why the Big East football schools appear to be willing to wait and see what develops. If nothing much changes, you and Wilkie are right. The football schools will never interest the likes of PSU, MD, BC, etc., into joining with them to form an EAC.

On the other hand, a decade ago, the same thing would have been definitely said about the ACC taking Miami, VT, and BC in as members. Things can change over time.

Expand the northeastern viewers' interest in college football to proportionately match their interest in Big East basketball and perhaps that tune will change.

As I've already addressed in several posts over the past few years, college football viewership in the South and Midwest is about at maximum. To significantly increase viewership, there must be interest developed in the sport on the West Coast and in the major northeastern population centers.

The Big 10 knew this when they grabbed Penn State and wait for ND.

The ACC reaffirmed this when they went after Miami, BC, and Syracuse in an attempt to destroy the Big East as a player in the college football.

Now, somehow, the Big East football schools must tap into these markets for their own survival - and at time when it appears Penn State, Notre Dame, and Boston College are relatively strong. Accomplish the task while this is true will garner new-found respect for the league.

And don't underestimate the ESPN hype machine. If they can be turned to our favor, they can certainly accelerate that success.

Cheers,
Neil

I'd have to imagine that playing "little brother" Rutgers and UConn would be more appealing than Northwestern or Indiana simply because the competition is better and the fanbases are growing etc. There's also some tradition with Rutgers across sports offerings.

I believe that was my point. ;-)

But one can never predict what a Nits' fan wil say.

Quote:I'd say Rutgers isn't a question mark, our attendance has steadily risen under Schiano if for no other reason than the team has begun to turn the corner. Give us two seasons of straight sellouts and/or a 25K or more season ticket base and some expansion will begin to occur at Rutgers Stadium. The place is supposedly capable of 80K if need be. I don't know if we'll 80K needs anytime soon but adding another section to each end of the lower tier is certainly within the realm of possibility. That would likely raise stadium capacity from 42K to around 48K.

Glad to hear that Brista. The Scarlet Knights have had a good start to their recruiting this year. Let's hope the need to expand the stadium happens quickly. But I'll contain my optimism at this point, to see if your team can pull off two winning seasons in a row.

Cheers,
Neil

Penn State isn't playing Temple as a sign of respect or in deference to their long history.

If they were playing for tradition/history, PSU would be playing PITT (96), WVU (59), OR SYRACUSE (68). In contrast, PSU has only played Temple 35 times.

They're playing Temple because Temple is giving them a 2 for 1, pure and simple. I find it hard to believe that Temple's 3 victories over the Nits inspires much respect.

Jim

brista21 Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

Jackson1011 Wrote:Attended a barbaque yesterday south of Pittsburgh and a man noticed my WVU shirt and congratulated me on the Mountaineers fine season....turns out he was a Penn St season ticket holder and we immediatly started talking about the old days of the Eastern Indys.....Of course this lead me to ask him how happy the Nits are in the Big 10....As an older fan he said that he missed the days of the Big 4 (Penn St, Pitt, Syracuse and WVU) but that the current BE did not really appeal to him.....Even he said it would be a hard sell to the alums and fans to stop playing in front of huge crowds at (for example) Purdue and Wisconsin and play @ Uconn and Rutgers.... and wasn't impressed with the addition former CUSA football members and the fact that Temple was kicked out.....He was quick to blame the BE football problems on Pitt for joining the BE (shocker I Know ;-) )

---I felt this gentlemen was a solid represenation of the attitudes of the Nit fan base and felt like sharing....sounded to me like even the older fans who remember the Eastern indys are content with PSUs current arrangment


Jackson

If I were a Nit fan, I wouldn't want PSU to join the Big East either - although playing UConn and Rutgers I imagine would be no worse than playing Northwestern and Indiana.

His 'loyalty' to Temple doesn't seem to jive with his wanting to play to sold out stadiums either.

But still, the current confederation of Big East teams at this moment in time would not be appealing.

And while it is highly unlikely any Eastern football team outside of Penn State will ever reach the attendance figures of a Michigan or a Ohio State, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that West Virginia, Louisville, and Pitt could get to mid 60s in a short period of time (provided stadium expansion takes place where needed).

Also, I suspect Syracuse will return to crowds in the mid 40K to upper 40K within 5 years and USF and UConn could exceed those marks in that time frame (again if expansion takes place where needed).

Rutgers and Cincinnati are the question marks in this area, particularly the Bearcats. But even here, both play in areas that could draw well, if they provide an exciting enough product on the field and rivalries and interest develop with other teams in the conference.

I think this is why the Big East football schools appear to be willing to wait and see what develops. If nothing much changes, you and Wilkie are right. The football schools will never interest the likes of PSU, MD, BC, etc., into joining with them to form an EAC.

On the other hand, a decade ago, the same thing would have been definitely said about the ACC taking Miami, VT, and BC in as members. Things can change over time.

Expand the northeastern viewers' interest in college football to proportionately match their interest in Big East basketball and perhaps that tune will change.

As I've already addressed in several posts over the past few years, college football viewership in the South and Midwest is about at maximum. To significantly increase viewership, there must be interest developed in the sport on the West Coast and in the major northeastern population centers.

The Big 10 knew this when they grabbed Penn State and wait for ND.

The ACC reaffirmed this when they went after Miami, BC, and Syracuse in an attempt to destroy the Big East as a player in the college football.

Now, somehow, the Big East football schools must tap into these markets for their own survival - and at time when it appears Penn State, Notre Dame, and Boston College are relatively strong. Accomplish the task while this is true will garner new-found respect for the league.

And don't underestimate the ESPN hype machine. If they can be turned to our favor, they can certainly accelerate that success.

Cheers,
Neil

I'd have to imagine that playing "little brother" Rutgers and UConn would be more appealing than Northwestern or Indiana simply because the competition is better and the fanbases are growing etc. There's also some tradition with Rutgers across sports offerings. I'd say Rutgers isn't a question mark, our attendance has steadily risen under Schiano if for no other reason than the team has begun to turn the corner. Give us two seasons of straight sellouts and/or a 25K or more season ticket base and some expansion will begin to occur at Rutgers Stadium. The place is supposedly capable of 80K if need be. I don't know if we'll 80K needs anytime soon but adding another section to each end of the lower tier is certainly within the realm of possibility. That would likely raise stadium capacity from 42K to around 48K.

Yep. Folks in NJ aren't what you'd exactly call followers of college football. Although that could change rapidly if Rutgers started winning consitently. You never know.

bitcruncher Wrote:Yep. Folks in NJ aren't what you'd exactly call followers of college football. Although that could change rapidly if Rutgers started winning consitently. You never know.

Unfortunately this has been an NFL-only area. Last year marked the beginning of the end of that. People started to take notice and the fanbase is growing and the respect is building, etc. etc. Sure there were always pockets of ND, Miami, and PSU fans and the alumni of Big Ten type schools that followed things, but there was nothing homegrown until now.