UGLY

http://deadspin.com/jameis-winston-isnt-...socialflow

(11-21-2013 04:01 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  UGLY

http://deadspin.com/jameis-winston-isnt-...socialflow

This story could be about any P5 school and still be accurate. Even most G5 schools would be guilty of this too.

(11-21-2013 04:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:01 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  UGLY

http://deadspin.com/jameis-winston-isnt-...socialflow

This story could be about any P5 school and still be accurate. Even most G5 schools would be guilty of this too.

I don't believe that for a minute. There a lot of schools that wouldn't tolerate this. Especially the threats. Now all the state schools and some of privates have players who are real marginal academically. But the rest? There are a lot of schools that wouldn't put up with that nonsense.

(11-21-2013 04:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:01 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  UGLY

http://deadspin.com/jameis-winston-isnt-...socialflow

This story could be about any P5 school and still be accurate. Even most G5 schools would be guilty of this too.

I don't believe that for a minute. There a lot of schools that wouldn't tolerate this. Especially the threats. Now all the state schools and some of privates have players who are real marginal academically. But the rest? There are a lot of schools that wouldn't put up with that nonsense.

I don't believe what you said for a minute. The SEC would most definitely fall into this category as well as the Big XII and most of the ACC, Pac and B1G.

This isn't some isolated incident.

(11-21-2013 05:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:01 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  UGLY

http://deadspin.com/jameis-winston-isnt-...socialflow

This story could be about any P5 school and still be accurate. Even most G5 schools would be guilty of this too.

I don't believe that for a minute. There a lot of schools that wouldn't tolerate this. Especially the threats. Now all the state schools and some of privates have players who are real marginal academically. But the rest? There are a lot of schools that wouldn't put up with that nonsense.

I don't believe what you said for a minute. The SEC would most definitely fall into this category as well as the Big XII and most of the ACC, Pac and B1G.

This isn't some isolated incident.

Agreed. For those who think this stuff doesn't happen all over, my question is: Give us some examples of schools forcing out star athletes who do stuff like this, and forcing them out before the problems become public and public opinion leaves them little choice.

I have no doubt that marginal team members are usually kept in line, even at the most intense football factories. There is a balancing act -- you can discipline a kid who rarely plays and/or is easily replaced, and that example might help you keep others in line. But starters and key members of the team? How often do head coaches run them off, absent embarrassing public incidents?

If anyone sees his (the "author" of that article) tweets and comments towards other professionals in the journalism field, it's hard not to think he's a complete and total a**hole. Some of what he says is valid and has its merit, but he's completely unprofessional in his delivery and is pandering to audiences in the same fashion he accuses of other people of pandering to - or lowering their standards for - theirs.

I honestly find it a bit repulsive he's trying to make a name for himself in the wake of a pretty visible and potentially terrible story/investigation.

(11-21-2013 05:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 05:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:01 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  UGLY

http://deadspin.com/jameis-winston-isnt-...socialflow

This story could be about any P5 school and still be accurate. Even most G5 schools would be guilty of this too.

I don't believe that for a minute. There a lot of schools that wouldn't tolerate this. Especially the threats. Now all the state schools and some of privates have players who are real marginal academically. But the rest? There are a lot of schools that wouldn't put up with that nonsense.

I don't believe what you said for a minute. The SEC would most definitely fall into this category as well as the Big XII and most of the ACC, Pac and B1G.

This isn't some isolated incident.

Agreed. For those who think this stuff doesn't happen all over, my question is: Give us some examples of schools forcing out star athletes who do stuff like this, and forcing them out before the problems become public and public opinion leaves them little choice.

I have no doubt that marginal team members are usually kept in line, even at the most intense football factories. There is a balancing act -- you can discipline a kid who rarely plays and/or is easily replaced, and that example might help you keep others in line. But starters and key members of the team? How often do head coaches run them off, absent embarrassing public incidents?

Michael Dyer at Auburn, reasons undisclosed, was dismissed for disciplinary reasons. Isaiah Crowell at Georgia, dismissed for actions off the field. And there are others. You just don't hear about them because a trial was not involved and they were dismissed before a serious crime was committed.

And while I agree with Redman on the issue of grade fixing, ghost writers, ghost test takers, and general assy behavior, threatening instructors, coaches, or other students will get you a dismissal at many of these public and private universities. So while some of it is epidemic, the crassest of the offenses listed are not and really reveal what the essence of lack of institutional control is all about. We want to apply that term to boosters, but players behaviors need to be a large part of it as well.

(11-21-2013 05:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 05:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:01 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  UGLY

http://deadspin.com/jameis-winston-isnt-...socialflow

This story could be about any P5 school and still be accurate. Even most G5 schools would be guilty of this too.

I don't believe that for a minute. There a lot of schools that wouldn't tolerate this. Especially the threats. Now all the state schools and some of privates have players who are real marginal academically. But the rest? There are a lot of schools that wouldn't put up with that nonsense.

I don't believe what you said for a minute. The SEC would most definitely fall into this category as well as the Big XII and most of the ACC, Pac and B1G.

This isn't some isolated incident.

Agreed. For those who think this stuff doesn't happen all over, my question is: Give us some examples of schools forcing out star athletes who do stuff like this, and forcing them out before the problems become public and public opinion leaves them little choice.

I have no doubt that marginal team members are usually kept in line, even at the most intense football factories. There is a balancing act -- you can discipline a kid who rarely plays and/or is easily replaced, and that example might help you keep others in line. But starters and key members of the team? How often do head coaches run them off, absent embarrassing public incidents?

Do you think Cal would put up with this? I don't think Texas would.

Zach Mettenberger and Nick Marshall are starting QBs for LSU and Auburn. They both lost their scholarships at Georgia. Mettenberger got arrested for molesting a waitress. Marshall helped someone steal money from a teammate's dorm room. Marshall got kicked out before the publicity. Mettenberger immediately was suspended (and his mom works for Mark Richt and he might have beaten out Aaron Murray for starter). Spurrier made fun of all the suspensions at Georgia, but Richt suspended people for drug violations while Spurrier's former school did nothing and had one of the most lenient drug policies even in the SEC. Some schools look the other way like Florida. Others don't.

Randy Moss lost his Notre Dame scholarship for beating up a person in HS. He was probably the most talented college receiver ever. He actually lost a scholarship at FSU as well with some drug problems when Bowden was coach. That's how he ended up at Marshall.

(11-21-2013 05:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 05:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 05:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  This story could be about any P5 school and still be accurate. Even most G5 schools would be guilty of this too.

I don't believe that for a minute. There a lot of schools that wouldn't tolerate this. Especially the threats. Now all the state schools and some of privates have players who are real marginal academically. But the rest? There are a lot of schools that wouldn't put up with that nonsense.

I don't believe what you said for a minute. The SEC would most definitely fall into this category as well as the Big XII and most of the ACC, Pac and B1G.

This isn't some isolated incident.

Agreed. For those who think this stuff doesn't happen all over, my question is: Give us some examples of schools forcing out star athletes who do stuff like this, and forcing them out before the problems become public and public opinion leaves them little choice.

I have no doubt that marginal team members are usually kept in line, even at the most intense football factories. There is a balancing act -- you can discipline a kid who rarely plays and/or is easily replaced, and that example might help you keep others in line. But starters and key members of the team? How often do head coaches run them off, absent embarrassing public incidents?

Do you think Cal would put up with this? I don't think Texas would.

Zach Mettenberger and Nick Marshall are starting QBs for LSU and Auburn. They both lost their scholarships at Georgia. Mettenberger got arrested for molesting a waitress. Marshall helped someone steal money from a teammate's dorm room. Marshall got kicked out before the publicity. Mettenberger immediately was suspended (and his mom works for Mark Richt and he might have beaten out Aaron Murray for starter). Spurrier made fun of all the suspensions at Georgia, but Richt suspended people for drug violations while Spurrier's former school did nothing and had one of the most lenient drug policies even in the SEC. Some schools look the other way like Florida. Others don't.

Well like you said, one was arrested for molesting a waitress and one was stealing from teammates.

The arrest was public so he had to go, Wedge was saying how many times do you hear about this without it being forced on them. No way a team keeps a kid who steals from teammates. The TEAM wants that player gone.

(11-21-2013 06:00 PM)bullet Wrote:  Randy Moss lost his Notre Dame scholarship for beating up a person in HS. He was probably the most talented college receiver ever. He actually lost a scholarship at FSU as well with some drug problems when Bowden was coach. That's how he ended up at Marshall.

Yeah, because he had a public arrest that everyone knew about. They couldn't cover it up. Not even close to the same thing.

(11-21-2013 05:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 05:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:01 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  UGLY

http://deadspin.com/jameis-winston-isnt-...socialflow

This story could be about any P5 school and still be accurate. Even most G5 schools would be guilty of this too.

I don't believe that for a minute. There a lot of schools that wouldn't tolerate this. Especially the threats. Now all the state schools and some of privates have players who are real marginal academically. But the rest? There are a lot of schools that wouldn't put up with that nonsense.

I don't believe what you said for a minute. The SEC would most definitely fall into this category as well as the Big XII and most of the ACC, Pac and B1G.

This isn't some isolated incident.

Agreed. For those who think this stuff doesn't happen all over, my question is: Give us some examples of schools forcing out star athletes who do stuff like this, and forcing them out before the problems become public and public opinion leaves them little choice.

I have no doubt that marginal team members are usually kept in line, even at the most intense football factories. There is a balancing act -- you can discipline a kid who rarely plays and/or is easily replaced, and that example might help you keep others in line. But starters and key members of the team? How often do head coaches run them off, absent embarrassing public incidents?

You are so wrong.

Coach Richt at UGA kicks you out for DUI, fighting, stealing and drug use, including marijuana. Familiar with the carrer histories of the qb at LSU or Auburn?

You can believe what you want, but at some schools the alumni and faculty wouldn't tolerate what was described in the article.

What you are asking for as proof is something that generally wouldn't be publically available. For legal reasons they don't explain why players got kicked off for "undisclosed violations of team rules." But the players have sometimes admitted what happened, like with the drug test issues at Georgia.

(11-21-2013 06:21 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 05:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 05:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  This story could be about any P5 school and still be accurate. Even most G5 schools would be guilty of this too.

I don't believe that for a minute. There a lot of schools that wouldn't tolerate this. Especially the threats. Now all the state schools and some of privates have players who are real marginal academically. But the rest? There are a lot of schools that wouldn't put up with that nonsense.

I don't believe what you said for a minute. The SEC would most definitely fall into this category as well as the Big XII and most of the ACC, Pac and B1G.

This isn't some isolated incident.

Agreed. For those who think this stuff doesn't happen all over, my question is: Give us some examples of schools forcing out star athletes who do stuff like this, and forcing them out before the problems become public and public opinion leaves them little choice.

I have no doubt that marginal team members are usually kept in line, even at the most intense football factories. There is a balancing act -- you can discipline a kid who rarely plays and/or is easily replaced, and that example might help you keep others in line. But starters and key members of the team? How often do head coaches run them off, absent embarrassing public incidents?

You are so wrong.

Coach Richt at UGA kicks you out for DUI, fighting, stealing and drug use, including marijuana. Familiar with the carrer histories of the qb at LSU or Auburn?

This is not about teams who kick a kid out for PUBLIC arrests. This about teams who influence how the SCHOOL deals with kids in SCHOLASTIC situations. The article wasn't about DUI's or assaults.

Did anyone even read the article?

(11-21-2013 06:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  You can believe what you want, but at some schools the alumni and faculty wouldn't tolerate what was described in the article.

What you are asking for as proof is something that generally wouldn't be publically available. For legal reasons they don't explain why players got kicked off for "undisclosed violations of team rules." But the players have sometimes admitted what happened, like with the drug test issues at Georgia.

And clearly you already made your mind up about your own institution and many others. You clearly have blinders on to what actually transpires at these FB factories.

(11-21-2013 06:29 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 06:21 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 05:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 05:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  I don't believe that for a minute. There a lot of schools that wouldn't tolerate this. Especially the threats. Now all the state schools and some of privates have players who are real marginal academically. But the rest? There are a lot of schools that wouldn't put up with that nonsense.

I don't believe what you said for a minute. The SEC would most definitely fall into this category as well as the Big XII and most of the ACC, Pac and B1G.

This isn't some isolated incident.

Agreed. For those who think this stuff doesn't happen all over, my question is: Give us some examples of schools forcing out star athletes who do stuff like this, and forcing them out before the problems become public and public opinion leaves them little choice.

I have no doubt that marginal team members are usually kept in line, even at the most intense football factories. There is a balancing act -- you can discipline a kid who rarely plays and/or is easily replaced, and that example might help you keep others in line. But starters and key members of the team? How often do head coaches run them off, absent embarrassing public incidents?

You are so wrong.

Coach Richt at UGA kicks you out for DUI, fighting, stealing and drug use, including marijuana. Familiar with the carrer histories of the qb at LSU or Auburn?

This is not about teams who kick a kid out for PUBLIC arrests. This about teams who influence how the SCHOOL deals with kids in SCHOLASTIC situations. The article wasn't about DUI's or assaults.

Did anyone even read the article?

Again, you are so wrong. A majority of the time at UGA players are dismissed from the team without anyone knowing why. At UGA, all violations that are crimes are disclosed and are in the newspaper, even driving on an expired license, failure to pay a speeding ticket and appear at court, etc. and most of such violations warrants a suspension from CMR. Two years ago UGA was down to 64 scholarship players largely due to this.

(11-21-2013 05:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 05:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 05:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  This story could be about any P5 school and still be accurate. Even most G5 schools would be guilty of this too.

I don't believe that for a minute. There a lot of schools that wouldn't tolerate this. Especially the threats. Now all the state schools and some of privates have players who are real marginal academically. But the rest? There are a lot of schools that wouldn't put up with that nonsense.

I don't believe what you said for a minute. The SEC would most definitely fall into this category as well as the Big XII and most of the ACC, Pac and B1G.

This isn't some isolated incident.

Agreed. For those who think this stuff doesn't happen all over, my question is: Give us some examples of schools forcing out star athletes who do stuff like this, and forcing them out before the problems become public and public opinion leaves them little choice.

I have no doubt that marginal team members are usually kept in line, even at the most intense football factories. There is a balancing act -- you can discipline a kid who rarely plays and/or is easily replaced, and that example might help you keep others in line. But starters and key members of the team? How often do head coaches run them off, absent embarrassing public incidents?

Do you think Cal would put up with this? I don't think Texas would.

Zach Mettenberger and Nick Marshall are starting QBs for LSU and Auburn. They both lost their scholarships at Georgia. Mettenberger got arrested for molesting a waitress. Marshall helped someone steal money from a teammate's dorm room. Marshall got kicked out before the publicity. Mettenberger immediately was suspended (and his mom works for Mark Richt and he might have beaten out Aaron Murray for starter). Spurrier made fun of all the suspensions at Georgia, but Richt suspended people for drug violations while Spurrier's former school did nothing and had one of the most lenient drug policies even in the SEC. Some schools look the other way like Florida. Others don't.

No, Cal wouldn't put up with it. Or Texas. Because it was public or would have become public.

But yeah, if it never became public, and didn't involve teammates or coaches, and was easy to keep under wraps, and involved a star player? Sure. If it was a star like Jason Kidd (Cal) or Vince Young (Texas), absolutely. Flunking drug tests is different. There are still some lenient schools, but most have taken a harder line -- but that's still different from the intimidating-the-professor BS. Sadly, I think almost every big-time program would look the other way at that.

While there are many issues I can take up on about Ferentz, allowing his players to pull crap like this isn't one of them.

No, not every Major University has a culture like this on campus.

(11-21-2013 06:29 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 06:21 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 05:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 05:02 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  I don't believe that for a minute. There a lot of schools that wouldn't tolerate this. Especially the threats. Now all the state schools and some of privates have players who are real marginal academically. But the rest? There are a lot of schools that wouldn't put up with that nonsense.

I don't believe what you said for a minute. The SEC would most definitely fall into this category as well as the Big XII and most of the ACC, Pac and B1G.

This isn't some isolated incident.

Agreed. For those who think this stuff doesn't happen all over, my question is: Give us some examples of schools forcing out star athletes who do stuff like this, and forcing them out before the problems become public and public opinion leaves them little choice.

I have no doubt that marginal team members are usually kept in line, even at the most intense football factories. There is a balancing act -- you can discipline a kid who rarely plays and/or is easily replaced, and that example might help you keep others in line. But starters and key members of the team? How often do head coaches run them off, absent embarrassing public incidents?

You are so wrong.

Coach Richt at UGA kicks you out for DUI, fighting, stealing and drug use, including marijuana. Familiar with the carrer histories of the qb at LSU or Auburn?

This is not about teams who kick a kid out for PUBLIC arrests. This about teams who influence how the SCHOOL deals with kids in SCHOLASTIC situations. The article wasn't about DUI's or assaults.

Did anyone even read the article?

The physical intimidation of a small female instructor could qualify. And yes I read every word of the article. I wasn't shocked at all about the classroom stuff, but no not all schools look the other way on the intimidation of faculty or staff.

When some on the faculty are already in the bag, perks and such, then there is no need for intimidation.

Doesn't just happen at the college level either, decades ago one of the top 3 high school basketball recruits wasn't going to graduate from high school because of an F in one class. Teacher refused to give in to numerous requests to change the grade by multiple people at the school. Local school board head eventually made him change his mind. Kid ended up at a northeast power.