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Duke AD on network and NYC
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CrazyPaco Offline
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Post: #1
Duke AD on network and NYC
11-21-2013 12:47 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
He's wrong. Screw Greensboro. He's right. Moving to NYC is good. Just do it permanently.

The rest of the story about an ACCN is just conjecture with no substance. Disappointed on that front.
11-21-2013 01:40 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
The tournament should be held in Greensboro still. It should, at minimum, be on equal rotation. Atlanta, Greensboro, DC, NYC.
11-21-2013 03:25 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
Rounds 1 and 2 should be at regional sites to make it easier for fans to get to. Rounds 3 and 4 should be in NYC.
11-21-2013 08:22 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
(11-21-2013 08:22 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Rounds 1 and 2 should be at regional sites to make it easier for fans to get to. Rounds 3 and 4 should be in NYC.

+1 million
11-21-2013 11:35 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
(11-21-2013 08:22 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Rounds 1 and 2 should be at regional sites to make it easier for fans to get to. Rounds 3 and 4 should be in NYC.

The problem with that is you have to decide in advance where the regional sites are going to be so you run the very real chance of having your regional sites being competitively unbalanced in the name of keeping it regional, or you defeat the purpose of having regional sites by assigning the teams for competitive reasons. Let's say you have a regional site in Charlotte and one in say NYC, but because of the way the seedings fall UNC and NC State are assigned to NYC with BC and ND and Syracuse and Pitt are in Charlotte with Duke and GT? What did we accomplish?

It isn't going to please the majority of our fans but the best thing the ACC can do for the entire conference is establish an equal rotation of Greensboro, NYC, Atlanta and DC with an occasional bone thrown to Boston, Pittsburgh, Louisville, Charlotte, and a Florida site . That way you maximize your exposure in all four of the regions (NYC & the NE, the Mid Atlantic, Tobacco Rd and the southern flank) while giving the secondary markets an occasional boost.

A hypothetical rotation could work something like this:

2015 - Greensboro
2016 - DC
2017 - NYC
2018 - Atlanta
2019 - Charlotte
2020 - Greensboro
2021 - DC
2022 - NYC
2023 - Atlanta
2024 - Louisville
So on and so forth.

You are going to alienate some portion of the conference by giving preference for either NYC or Greensboro, and IMO you are not maximizing the exposure of the conference by limiting it to one or two sites year after year. I know there will be some drawbacks to holding the tourney at the home site of a conference member (like at the Yum!) but with the way the ACC distributes tickets the home court effect will be minimal at best.

We need to get past the parochial line of thinking that it's all or nothing when the reality is we need to be doing what we can to maximize our exposure in ALL of our markets.
11-22-2013 02:40 AM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
(11-22-2013 02:40 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(11-21-2013 08:22 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Rounds 1 and 2 should be at regional sites to make it easier for fans to get to. Rounds 3 and 4 should be in NYC.

The problem with that is you have to decide in advance where the regional sites are going to be so you run the very real chance of having your regional sites being competitively unbalanced in the name of keeping it regional, or you defeat the purpose of having regional sites by assigning the teams for competitive reasons. Let's say you have a regional site in Charlotte and one in say NYC, but because of the way the seedings fall UNC and NC State are assigned to NYC with BC and ND and Syracuse and Pitt are in Charlotte with Duke and GT? What did we accomplish?

It isn't going to please the majority of our fans but the best thing the ACC can do for the entire conference is establish an equal rotation of Greensboro, NYC, Atlanta and DC with an occasional bone thrown to Boston, Pittsburgh, Louisville, Charlotte, and a Florida site . That way you maximize your exposure in all four of the regions (NYC & the NE, the Mid Atlantic, Tobacco Rd and the southern flank) while giving the secondary markets an occasional boost.

A hypothetical rotation could work something like this:

2015 - Greensboro
2016 - DC
2017 - NYC
2018 - Atlanta
2019 - Charlotte
2020 - Greensboro
2021 - DC
2022 - NYC
2023 - Atlanta
2024 - Louisville
So on and so forth.

You are going to alienate some portion of the conference by giving preference for either NYC or Greensboro, and IMO you are not maximizing the exposure of the conference by limiting it to one or two sites year after year. I know there will be some drawbacks to holding the tourney at the home site of a conference member (like at the Yum!) but with the way the ACC distributes tickets the home court effect will be minimal at best.

We need to get past the parochial line of thinking that it's all or nothing when the reality is we need to be doing what we can to maximize our exposure in ALL of our markets.

+1
11-22-2013 03:29 AM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
(11-22-2013 02:40 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(11-21-2013 08:22 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Rounds 1 and 2 should be at regional sites to make it easier for fans to get to. Rounds 3 and 4 should be in NYC.

The problem with that is you have to decide in advance where the regional sites are going to be so you run the very real chance of having your regional sites being competitively unbalanced in the name of keeping it regional, or you defeat the purpose of having regional sites by assigning the teams for competitive reasons. Let's say you have a regional site in Charlotte and one in say NYC, but because of the way the seedings fall UNC and NC State are assigned to NYC with BC and ND and Syracuse and Pitt are in Charlotte with Duke and GT? What did we accomplish?

It isn't going to please the majority of our fans but the best thing the ACC can do for the entire conference is establish an equal rotation of Greensboro, NYC, Atlanta and DC with an occasional bone thrown to Boston, Pittsburgh, Louisville, Charlotte, and a Florida site . That way you maximize your exposure in all four of the regions (NYC & the NE, the Mid Atlantic, Tobacco Rd and the southern flank) while giving the secondary markets an occasional boost.

A hypothetical rotation could work something like this:

2015 - Greensboro
2016 - DC
2017 - NYC
2018 - Atlanta
2019 - Charlotte
2020 - Greensboro
2021 - DC
2022 - NYC
2023 - Atlanta
2024 - Louisville
So on and so forth.

You are going to alienate some portion of the conference by giving preference for either NYC or Greensboro, and IMO you are not maximizing the exposure of the conference by limiting it to one or two sites year after year. I know there will be some drawbacks to holding the tourney at the home site of a conference member (like at the Yum!) but with the way the ACC distributes tickets the home court effect will be minimal at best.

We need to get past the parochial line of thinking that it's all or nothing when the reality is we need to be doing what we can to maximize our exposure in ALL of our markets.

All true. It is easy to throw out one-liners but working out all the intricate details with all the personalities involved is a nightmare.

The regional thing only works with pods. Pods only work with 16 which is a whole other discussion.

I have no problem with a school hosting the regional if they have a reasonable size facility (15k?). I don't have a problem with rounds 1 & 2 being played at the higher seeds home. It adds complexity and it sucks if BC has to go to Miami for round one but that is our conference now.
11-22-2013 06:36 AM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
(11-22-2013 02:40 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(11-21-2013 08:22 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Rounds 1 and 2 should be at regional sites to make it easier for fans to get to. Rounds 3 and 4 should be in NYC.

The problem with that is you have to decide in advance where the regional sites are going to be so you run the very real chance of having your regional sites being competitively unbalanced in the name of keeping it regional, or you defeat the purpose of having regional sites by assigning the teams for competitive reasons. Let's say you have a regional site in Charlotte and one in say NYC, but because of the way the seedings fall UNC and NC State are assigned to NYC with BC and ND and Syracuse and Pitt are in Charlotte with Duke and GT? What did we accomplish?

It isn't going to please the majority of our fans but the best thing the ACC can do for the entire conference is establish an equal rotation of Greensboro, NYC, Atlanta and DC with an occasional bone thrown to Boston, Pittsburgh, Louisville, Charlotte, and a Florida site . That way you maximize your exposure in all four of the regions (NYC & the NE, the Mid Atlantic, Tobacco Rd and the southern flank) while giving the secondary markets an occasional boost.

A hypothetical rotation could work something like this:

2015 - Greensboro
2016 - DC
2017 - NYC
2018 - Atlanta
2019 - Charlotte
2020 - Greensboro
2021 - DC
2022 - NYC
2023 - Atlanta
2024 - Louisville
So on and so forth.

You are going to alienate some portion of the conference by giving preference for either NYC or Greensboro, and IMO you are not maximizing the exposure of the conference by limiting it to one or two sites year after year. I know there will be some drawbacks to holding the tourney at the home site of a conference member (like at the Yum!) but with the way the ACC distributes tickets the home court effect will be minimal at best.

We need to get past the parochial line of thinking that it's all or nothing when the reality is we need to be doing what we can to maximize our exposure in ALL of our markets.

Everything is cool except Louisville. The league doesn't play on anyone's home court.
11-22-2013 06:36 AM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
(11-22-2013 06:36 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(11-22-2013 02:40 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(11-21-2013 08:22 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Rounds 1 and 2 should be at regional sites to make it easier for fans to get to. Rounds 3 and 4 should be in NYC.

The problem with that is you have to decide in advance where the regional sites are going to be so you run the very real chance of having your regional sites being competitively unbalanced in the name of keeping it regional, or you defeat the purpose of having regional sites by assigning the teams for competitive reasons. Let's say you have a regional site in Charlotte and one in say NYC, but because of the way the seedings fall UNC and NC State are assigned to NYC with BC and ND and Syracuse and Pitt are in Charlotte with Duke and GT? What did we accomplish?

It isn't going to please the majority of our fans but the best thing the ACC can do for the entire conference is establish an equal rotation of Greensboro, NYC, Atlanta and DC with an occasional bone thrown to Boston, Pittsburgh, Louisville, Charlotte, and a Florida site . That way you maximize your exposure in all four of the regions (NYC & the NE, the Mid Atlantic, Tobacco Rd and the southern flank) while giving the secondary markets an occasional boost.

A hypothetical rotation could work something like this:

2015 - Greensboro
2016 - DC
2017 - NYC
2018 - Atlanta
2019 - Charlotte
2020 - Greensboro
2021 - DC
2022 - NYC
2023 - Atlanta
2024 - Louisville
So on and so forth.

You are going to alienate some portion of the conference by giving preference for either NYC or Greensboro, and IMO you are not maximizing the exposure of the conference by limiting it to one or two sites year after year. I know there will be some drawbacks to holding the tourney at the home site of a conference member (like at the Yum!) but with the way the ACC distributes tickets the home court effect will be minimal at best.

We need to get past the parochial line of thinking that it's all or nothing when the reality is we need to be doing what we can to maximize our exposure in ALL of our markets.

Everything is cool except Louisville. The league doesn't play on anyone's home court.

I was thinking we could have the game in Rupp Arena but then I remembered we own that place too!07-coffee3
11-22-2013 10:37 AM
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Post: #11
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
(11-22-2013 10:37 AM)Dasville Wrote:  
(11-22-2013 06:36 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(11-22-2013 02:40 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(11-21-2013 08:22 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Rounds 1 and 2 should be at regional sites to make it easier for fans to get to. Rounds 3 and 4 should be in NYC.

The problem with that is you have to decide in advance where the regional sites are going to be so you run the very real chance of having your regional sites being competitively unbalanced in the name of keeping it regional, or you defeat the purpose of having regional sites by assigning the teams for competitive reasons. Let's say you have a regional site in Charlotte and one in say NYC, but because of the way the seedings fall UNC and NC State are assigned to NYC with BC and ND and Syracuse and Pitt are in Charlotte with Duke and GT? What did we accomplish?

It isn't going to please the majority of our fans but the best thing the ACC can do for the entire conference is establish an equal rotation of Greensboro, NYC, Atlanta and DC with an occasional bone thrown to Boston, Pittsburgh, Louisville, Charlotte, and a Florida site . That way you maximize your exposure in all four of the regions (NYC & the NE, the Mid Atlantic, Tobacco Rd and the southern flank) while giving the secondary markets an occasional boost.

A hypothetical rotation could work something like this:

2015 - Greensboro
2016 - DC
2017 - NYC
2018 - Atlanta
2019 - Charlotte
2020 - Greensboro
2021 - DC
2022 - NYC
2023 - Atlanta
2024 - Louisville
So on and so forth.

You are going to alienate some portion of the conference by giving preference for either NYC or Greensboro, and IMO you are not maximizing the exposure of the conference by limiting it to one or two sites year after year. I know there will be some drawbacks to holding the tourney at the home site of a conference member (like at the Yum!) but with the way the ACC distributes tickets the home court effect will be minimal at best.

We need to get past the parochial line of thinking that it's all or nothing when the reality is we need to be doing what we can to maximize our exposure in ALL of our markets.

Everything is cool except Louisville. The league doesn't play on anyone's home court.

I was thinking we could have the game in Rupp Arena but then I remembered we own that place too!07-coffee3

Why You Wanna Go There?


Kentucky fans rebuttal in 3-2-1......
11-22-2013 10:57 AM
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HRFlossY Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
(11-22-2013 10:57 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  Why You Wanna Go There?


Kentucky fans rebuttal in 3-2-1......

We can't help it. It's fun to make fun of those losers.03-rotfl
FlossY out...04-wine
11-22-2013 02:36 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
(11-21-2013 08:22 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Rounds 1 and 2 should be at regional sites to make it easier for fans to get to. Rounds 3 and 4 should be in NYC.

Defeats the purpose of having the tourney in NYC
11-22-2013 03:32 PM
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Post: #14
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
(11-22-2013 02:40 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(11-21-2013 08:22 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Rounds 1 and 2 should be at regional sites to make it easier for fans to get to. Rounds 3 and 4 should be in NYC.

The problem with that is you have to decide in advance where the regional sites are going to be so you run the very real chance of having your regional sites being competitively unbalanced in the name of keeping it regional, or you defeat the purpose of having regional sites by assigning the teams for competitive reasons. Let's say you have a regional site in Charlotte and one in say NYC, but because of the way the seedings fall UNC and NC State are assigned to NYC with BC and ND and Syracuse and Pitt are in Charlotte with Duke and GT? What did we accomplish?

It isn't going to please the majority of our fans but the best thing the ACC can do for the entire conference is establish an equal rotation of Greensboro, NYC, Atlanta and DC with an occasional bone thrown to Boston, Pittsburgh, Louisville, Charlotte, and a Florida site . That way you maximize your exposure in all four of the regions (NYC & the NE, the Mid Atlantic, Tobacco Rd and the southern flank) while giving the secondary markets an occasional boost.

A hypothetical rotation could work something like this:

2015 - Greensboro
2016 - DC
2017 - NYC
2018 - Atlanta
2019 - Charlotte
2020 - Greensboro
2021 - DC
2022 - NYC
2023 - Atlanta
2024 - Louisville
So on and so forth.

You are going to alienate some portion of the conference by giving preference for either NYC or Greensboro, and IMO you are not maximizing the exposure of the conference by limiting it to one or two sites year after year. I know there will be some drawbacks to holding the tourney at the home site of a conference member (like at the Yum!) but with the way the ACC distributes tickets the home court effect will be minimal at best.

We need to get past the parochial line of thinking that it's all or nothing when the reality is we need to be doing what we can to maximize our exposure in ALL of our markets.

As long as the KFC Yum Center is the home court to Louisville --- no.

If that's going to be the case, then I'm going to suggest the Tourney find its way to PNC Arena in Raleigh.
11-22-2013 04:07 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
(11-22-2013 03:32 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(11-21-2013 08:22 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Rounds 1 and 2 should be at regional sites to make it easier for fans to get to. Rounds 3 and 4 should be in NYC.

Defeats the purpose of having the tourney in NYC

No, it gets the 1st round losers out of the way and presents the best possible games in MSG...
11-22-2013 04:47 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
(11-22-2013 06:36 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Everything is cool except Louisville. The league doesn't play on anyone's home court.

(11-22-2013 04:07 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  As long as the KFC Yum Center is the home court to Louisville --- no.

Again, with the equitable way the ACC distributes tickets to the tourney home court advantage shouldn't be that big of a problem. Would there be more Louisville fans at the Yum! center? Of course. No different than more Duke/UNC fans being in Greensboro, or more Cuse fans being in NYC.

Quote:If that's going to be the case, then I'm going to suggest the Tourney find its way to PNC Arena in Raleigh.
That's fine. The Tobacco Road portion of the rotation can be shared between Greensboro and Raleigh. Anything other than that defeats the purpose of trying to maximize our exposure in ALL of our regions.

If we are striving to be THE east coast conference then we need to do our level best to maximize our exposure over the entire east coast. What we don't need to do is maintain this 1960's/70's/80's/90's idea that Tobacco Road is the center of the universe. That line of thinking is what has the ACC sucking hind tit when it comes to conference payouts with our peer conferences, and a big reason as to why our TV partner is lukewarm at best whenever they discuss a possible ACC Network.

IMO the plan I listed above gives an equitable amount of exposure to the four major areas of support while allowing secondary areas like Boston, Pittsburgh, Florida, etc. who while wouldn't be able to match the core areas year by year in level of support with unique opportunities to get both the region and the conference good exposure.
11-22-2013 06:08 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
(11-22-2013 04:47 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(11-22-2013 03:32 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(11-21-2013 08:22 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Rounds 1 and 2 should be at regional sites to make it easier for fans to get to. Rounds 3 and 4 should be in NYC.

Defeats the purpose of having the tourney in NYC

No, it gets the 1st round losers out of the way and presents the best possible games in MSG...

Like I said defeats the purpose of having it in NYC, which is the exposure for the entire week. You don't need to weed anyone out.
11-22-2013 06:18 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
(11-22-2013 06:36 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  The regional thing only works with pods. Pods only work with 16 which is a whole other discussion.

The problem even with pods is that you run the very real risk of one region being far stronger than the other, thus you still have a competitive imbalance. If "team blue" is the four seed in Region A and is stronger than "team green", the 2 seed in Region B, and gets bounced earlier in the ACC Tournament it could result in "team blue receiving a lower seeding in the NCAA tournament. I just do not see a way you can go to regional sites without assuring you have the good competitive balance to ensure that the tournament isn't a complete joke.

The reality is there is no answer that everyone is going to be happy with, but IMHO my idea above is the most equitable I have seen in any discussion on the subject. I have no doubt it could be tweaked by someone with far more knowledge on the subject and in no way do I claim it is the perfect solution. Perhaps in the core areas Tobacco Rd and NYC get double the chances of DC and Atlanta, and perhaps you add additional locations to the "wildcards" like Boston/Florida/etc. for areas we would like greater market penetration. As one of, if not the best basketball conferences we should be able to draw anywhere east of the Mississippi, so that shouldn't be much of a concern.
11-22-2013 06:25 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
(11-22-2013 06:08 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(11-22-2013 06:36 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Everything is cool except Louisville. The league doesn't play on anyone's home court.

(11-22-2013 04:07 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  As long as the KFC Yum Center is the home court to Louisville --- no.

Again, with the equitable way the ACC distributes tickets to the tourney home court advantage shouldn't be that big of a problem. Would there be more Louisville fans at the Yum! center? Of course. No different than more Duke/UNC fans being in Greensboro, or more Cuse fans being in NYC.

Quote:If that's going to be the case, then I'm going to suggest the Tourney find its way to PNC Arena in Raleigh.
That's fine. The Tobacco Road portion of the rotation can be shared between Greensboro and Raleigh. Anything other than that defeats the purpose of trying to maximize our exposure in ALL of our regions.

If we are striving to be THE east coast conference then we need to do our level best to maximize our exposure over the entire east coast. What we don't need to do is maintain this 1960's/70's/80's/90's idea that Tobacco Road is the center of the universe. That line of thinking is what has the ACC sucking hind tit when it comes to conference payouts with our peer conferences, and a big reason as to why our TV partner is lukewarm at best whenever they discuss a possible ACC Network.

IMO the plan I listed above gives an equitable amount of exposure to the four major areas of support while allowing secondary areas like Boston, Pittsburgh, Florida, etc. who while wouldn't be able to match the core areas year by year in level of support with unique opportunities to get both the region and the conference good exposure.

Kap you can't be serious. There is no reason in the world to have one of the schools host the tourney. That's what mid-major conferences do.
11-22-2013 06:43 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Duke AD on network and NYC
(11-22-2013 06:43 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(11-22-2013 06:08 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(11-22-2013 06:36 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Everything is cool except Louisville. The league doesn't play on anyone's home court.

(11-22-2013 04:07 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  As long as the KFC Yum Center is the home court to Louisville --- no.

Again, with the equitable way the ACC distributes tickets to the tourney home court advantage shouldn't be that big of a problem. Would there be more Louisville fans at the Yum! center? Of course. No different than more Duke/UNC fans being in Greensboro, or more Cuse fans being in NYC.

Quote:If that's going to be the case, then I'm going to suggest the Tourney find its way to PNC Arena in Raleigh.
That's fine. The Tobacco Road portion of the rotation can be shared between Greensboro and Raleigh. Anything other than that defeats the purpose of trying to maximize our exposure in ALL of our regions.

If we are striving to be THE east coast conference then we need to do our level best to maximize our exposure over the entire east coast. What we don't need to do is maintain this 1960's/70's/80's/90's idea that Tobacco Road is the center of the universe. That line of thinking is what has the ACC sucking hind tit when it comes to conference payouts with our peer conferences, and a big reason as to why our TV partner is lukewarm at best whenever they discuss a possible ACC Network.

IMO the plan I listed above gives an equitable amount of exposure to the four major areas of support while allowing secondary areas like Boston, Pittsburgh, Florida, etc. who while wouldn't be able to match the core areas year by year in level of support with unique opportunities to get both the region and the conference good exposure.

Kap you can't be serious. There is no reason in the world to have one of the schools host the tourney. That's what mid-major conferences do.

When it's a NBA level facility like the Yum! Center I am absolutely serious.

It's not like I am saying have it at Littlejohn or Cassell. We are talking about a facility that by the time it gets to their turn in the rotation they will have already hosted at least one set of NCAA tournament games.

As for the mid-major comment....the SoCon has had their tournament at the Greensboro Coliseum in the past. Does that make having it in Greensboro "something mid-majors do"?
11-22-2013 07:01 PM
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