(11-21-2013 04:21 PM)michael Wrote:  I'm going to be in the vast minority here...but the wildcat jump pass was a good call in my opinion. It was set up with the previous runs with the wildcat and we ran twice in wildcat at the goaline...then the third was the jump pass. It was a great read by the linebacker and a poor pass. It happens.

I would suggest the turning point in the game was when we had the ball in quarter 3 at NIU's 35 yard line 4th and 1. We had just given up a touchdown...we were trailing...we needed a counter punch. We opted to punt. Up to that point we had been able to power for yards when we needed them. It did seem our running backs were a bit beat up though. I would have run the ball to try for the first down. We punted...great punt and coverage...but they responded with a 99 yard drive that put us down 2 scores. That crushed us. Had we scored on our drive rather than punting...who knows?

Here is what I concede...the jump pass play call is only a good call if it works. It is such a significant play that if the play fails and the ball is intercepted, the person responsible should have consequences

Well, I will anyway. Hopefully a stronger, older, more experienced D will withstand a opponents best shot next year.

(11-21-2013 04:21 PM)michael Wrote:  I'm going to be in the vast minority here...but the wildcat jump pass was a good call in my opinion. It was set up with the previous runs with the wildcat and we ran twice in wildcat at the goaline...then the third was the jump pass. It was a great read by the linebacker and a poor pass. It happens.

I would suggest the turning point in the game was when we had the ball in quarter 3 at NIU's 35 yard line 4th and 1. We had just given up a touchdown...we were trailing...we needed a counter punch. We opted to punt. Up to that point we had been able to power for yards when we needed them. It did seem our running backs were a bit beat up though. I would have run the ball to try for the first down. We punted...great punt and coverage...but they responded with a 99 yard drive that put us down 2 scores. That crushed us. Had we scored on our drive rather than punting...who knows?

Wildcat jump pass is a stupid, stupid call every time it's intercepted. Wildcat jump pass is sheer, offensive genius everytime it' s completed for a score. On the other hand, a power run behind your big line is always the right call on short yardage situations unless you fail to score at which point it becomes predictable, vanilla offense and one that should cost the OC his job for not calling the wildcat jump pass.

BTW, I like using " Rosie the Dozer" in those short yard situations. He won't break any long ones but he's tough to stop for the first two yards.

(11-21-2013 05:48 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:21 PM)michael Wrote:  I'm going to be in the vast minority here...but the wildcat jump pass was a good call in my opinion. It was set up with the previous runs with the wildcat and we ran twice in wildcat at the goaline...then the third was the jump pass. It was a great read by the linebacker and a poor pass. It happens.

I would suggest the turning point in the game was when we had the ball in quarter 3 at NIU's 35 yard line 4th and 1. We had just given up a touchdown...we were trailing...we needed a counter punch. We opted to punt. Up to that point we had been able to power for yards when we needed them. It did seem our running backs were a bit beat up though. I would have run the ball to try for the first down. We punted...great punt and coverage...but they responded with a 99 yard drive that put us down 2 scores. That crushed us. Had we scored on our drive rather than punting...who knows?

Wildcat jump pass is a stupid, stupid call every time it's intercepted. Wildcat jump pass is sheer, offensive genius everytime it' s completed for a score. On the other hand, a power run behind your big line is always the right call on short yardage situations unless you fail to score at which point it becomes predictable, vanilla offense and one that should cost the OC his job for not calling the wildcat jump pass.

BTW, I like using " Rosie the Dozer" in those short yard situations. He won't break any long ones but he's tough to stop for the first two yards.

Correct, If we score everyone is saying awesome gutsy call. Coaches run things that look good in practice and will "probably" work based on what was observed earlier in the game with the formation. Of course, Rosie the Masher would of squashed any would be tackler. You crack me up Water Boy.

(11-21-2013 05:27 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  69 second half points surrenderd in 2 weeks. Nothing more needs to be said.

As compared to 7 total points in the first half of those same two games! A 10:1 differential????? Something is badly wrong with this picture.

I had a wise coach once tell me that in high school, that for every freshmen you play just count a loss to your record because they will not get it done. Now if surrounded by great players, maybe not. Same player is all world junior year. Could this apply for college defensive players also?????

(11-21-2013 12:33 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Sorry, but this sounds like AZZ after we thumped BG. All of a sudden Clawson, their program building coach, is a loser who can only beat weak teams and can't win championships. Next week he was a genius. Campbell is fine, NIU is hugely good and Fluellen just wasn't Fluellen. I'm as disappointed as anyone at our second half collapses but we're better than mediocre and recruiting championships don't mean squat. The team that has recruited the best for the last several years is NIU. They were better in nearly every phase (JD being the obvious exception). Campbell is 17-8. Pretty sure that doesn't qualify as mediocre- if wrre in the East we'd be preparing to play NIU for the MACC ?

SPOILER ALERT: We'd lose.

I was thinking the same thing about this sounding like the AZZ message board after the Toledo loss. Fans are fans.

The guy sitting behind me last night had ALL the answers. After the fact, of course and only when a Toledo play did not work. He also was reffing the game from his seat and making all correct calls.

(11-21-2013 04:21 PM)michael Wrote:  I'm going to be in the vast minority here...but the wildcat jump pass was a good call in my opinion. It was set up with the previous runs with the wildcat and we ran twice in wildcat at the goaline...then the third was the jump pass. It was a great read by the linebacker and a poor pass. It happens.

I would suggest the turning point in the game was when we had the ball in quarter 3 at NIU's 35 yard line 4th and 1. We had just given up a touchdown...we were trailing...we needed a counter punch. We opted to punt. Up to that point we had been able to power for yards when we needed them. It did seem our running backs were a bit beat up though. I would have run the ball to try for the first down. We punted...great punt and coverage...but they responded with a 99 yard drive that put us down 2 scores. That crushed us. Had we scored on our drive rather than punting...who knows?

It's only a good call if he has an option to run or pass. He had a Lb behind him and another who dropped back and picked it off. They were not fooled and it was likely because they saw the line did not move forward like they would on a called run. The could not go past the line of scrimmage on a pass play. They read that and picked up the receiver. It was a bad call to make with a guy that doesn't know how to read the way the receiver is being defended.

(11-21-2013 06:15 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:21 PM)michael Wrote:  I'm going to be in the vast minority here...but the wildcat jump pass was a good call in my opinion. It was set up with the previous runs with the wildcat and we ran twice in wildcat at the goaline...then the third was the jump pass. It was a great read by the linebacker and a poor pass. It happens.

I would suggest the turning point in the game was when we had the ball in quarter 3 at NIU's 35 yard line 4th and 1. We had just given up a touchdown...we were trailing...we needed a counter punch. We opted to punt. Up to that point we had been able to power for yards when we needed them. It did seem our running backs were a bit beat up though. I would have run the ball to try for the first down. We punted...great punt and coverage...but they responded with a 99 yard drive that put us down 2 scores. That crushed us. Had we scored on our drive rather than punting...who knows?

It's only a good call if he has an option to run or pass. He had a Lb behind him and another who dropped back and picked it off. They were not fooled and it was likely because they saw the line did not move forward like they would on a called run. The could not go past the line of scrimmage on a pass play. They read that and picked up the receiver. It was a bad call to make with a guy that doesn't know how to read the way the receiver is being defended.

Yes, even if the guy who intercepted the pass had not existed, the play still would not have worked because the receiver was very well-covered by someone else.

(11-21-2013 03:39 PM)RangerRocket Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 03:36 PM)tampabayrocketfan Wrote:  Campbell needs to let his OC call the plays. He said on the presser that he called the jump pass. I wonder how many times Campbell trumps Candle. Something is going on where a play is called but its getting held up at the sidelines. And that might be Campbell getting the call and then changing it up.

... or did Campbell say that to protect Candle?

(11-21-2013 12:20 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  I'm not ready to throw Campbell under a bus. But, if he doesn't grow a pair and hire an OC I'll volunteer to drive the bus.

The first two TO's were freak occurrences and, frustrating as it is, that sh!t happens. I will not diss freshman RB Kareen Hunt for the pick he threw, but whoever called that play clearly is not ready for his job at Toledo. We've been the top team in the conference in the red-zone and somebody pulls that play out of their @ss in THIS game? Really, coach?

I don't believe the OC you love to hate on called that play. Actually, I'm pretty sure of it.

(11-21-2013 11:59 PM)PurpleRocket Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 12:20 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  I'm not ready to throw Campbell under a bus. But, if he doesn't grow a pair and hire an OC I'll volunteer to drive the bus.

The first two TO's were freak occurrences and, frustrating as it is, that sh!t happens. I will not diss freshman RB Kareen Hunt for the pick he threw, but whoever called that play clearly is not ready for his job at Toledo. We've been the top team in the conference in the red-zone and somebody pulls that play out of their @ss in THIS game? Really, coach?

I don't believe the OC you love to hate on called that play. Actually, I'm pretty sure of it.

OK. Are you pretty sure, or do you know?

If you know, then I have no problem deferring to my, "whoever called that play clearly is not ready for his job at Toledo," comment. That call was unsound.

3rd and goal at the 2.
We are playing for the division championship against an opponent of whom we have very little room for error.
The Rockets are/were atop the conference in redzone performance.
We have already turned the ball over TWICE.
While Kareen Hunt has been nothing less than tremendous, freshmen are KNOWN to be prone to putting the ball on the ground.
At the 2 yard line, in this game, you call that play?
You put that kind of weight on a freshman?
The top team in red zone performance doesn't have a sound play to get us 2 yards? If that fails we don't have a kicker to get us a sure 3?

Had it worked, sure, I would have gone nuts for Kareem. But, I still would have considered the call reckless.

So, point the arrow where it belongs, but I stand behind my opinion. Whoever called that play screwed the pooch big-time. Or maybe got screwed by the pooch states it better.

(11-22-2013 01:23 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 11:59 PM)PurpleRocket Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 12:20 AM)Toledo Football 1st Wrote:  I'm not ready to throw Campbell under a bus. But, if he doesn't grow a pair and hire an OC I'll volunteer to drive the bus.

The first two TO's were freak occurrences and, frustrating as it is, that sh!t happens. I will not diss freshman RB Kareen Hunt for the pick he threw, but whoever called that play clearly is not ready for his job at Toledo. We've been the top team in the conference in the red-zone and somebody pulls that play out of their @ss in THIS game? Really, coach?

I don't believe the OC you love to hate on called that play. Actually, I'm pretty sure of it.

OK. Are you pretty sure, or do you know?

If you know, then I have no problem deferring to my, "whoever called that play clearly is not ready for his job at Toledo," comment. That call was unsound.

3rd and goal at the 2.
We are playing for the division championship against an opponent of whom we have very little room for error.
The Rockets are/were atop the conference in redzone performance.
We have already turned the ball over TWICE.
While Kareen Hunt has been nothing less than tremendous, freshmen are KNOWN to be prone to putting the ball on the ground.
At the 2 yard line, in this game, you call that play?
You put that kind of weight on a freshman?
The top team in red zone performance doesn't have a sound play to get us 2 yards? If that fails we don't have a kicker to get us a sure 3?

Had it worked, sure, I would have gone nuts for Kareem. But, I still would have considered the call reckless.

So, point the arrow where it belongs, but I stand behind my opinion. Whoever called that play screwed the pooch big-time. Or maybe got screwed by the pooch states it better.

I am srill pissed we can't make 2 yds with "the best Offensive line in the MAC, and all our star backs". We pee right down our legs in short yardage plays all season long and end up pouch punting or kicking a 35 yard or under FG. The only reason we are such a great red zone team is we score way to many chip shot FG's. We will never beat teams the likes of NIU with predictable play calling and 3 points instead of 7 points. NIU had no problem all night long on 3rd and short wheter it was a QB call or back call they produced 1st downs and that wins ball games.

(11-21-2013 04:21 PM)michael Wrote:  I'm going to be in the vast minority here...but the wildcat jump pass was a good call in my opinion. It was set up with the previous runs with the wildcat and we ran twice in wildcat at the goaline...then the third was the jump pass. It was a great read by the linebacker and a poor pass. It happens.

I don't know. I thought it was kind of telegraphed. If it was at the 1 or inside the 1, I would have been okay with it, but as soon as Toledo came out in wildcat from the 2 or 3 you kind of had the sense something fishy was up.

As others have said, Durante had the TE well covered anyways.

I'm more upset with the fact we couldn't pound it in with our OL, our Senior QB and Senior TB, even though he was still banged up. That close to the goalline we should be able to score.

My view is that the wildcat does limited good around the goal line. It telegraphs the run and the defense would welcome throwing it out of the wildcat. If it would have worked with our receiver wide open, we would be talking about a great play call because they saw something we did not. It was clearly a surprise call but because it did not work, it was a gamble and not based on something they saw in how they reacted to the wildcat formation. They were well coached. Fundamental reaction if anyone has played linebacker at just about any level. You watch the line to see if it is a run. If not sure because they hold their position, you do the same and read the backfield next.. I do believe that if he ran, he would have scored. He has that kind of power and still does not allow much of a clean shot on him unless he is trying to run someone over. He gets low and he goes in. Conjecture, but he had done it all year long.

(11-21-2013 05:48 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 04:21 PM)michael Wrote:  I'm going to be in the vast minority here...but the wildcat jump pass was a good call in my opinion. It was set up with the previous runs with the wildcat and we ran twice in wildcat at the goaline...then the third was the jump pass. It was a great read by the linebacker and a poor pass. It happens.

I would suggest the turning point in the game was when we had the ball in quarter 3 at NIU's 35 yard line 4th and 1. We had just given up a touchdown...we were trailing...we needed a counter punch. We opted to punt. Up to that point we had been able to power for yards when we needed them. It did seem our running backs were a bit beat up though. I would have run the ball to try for the first down. We punted...great punt and coverage...but they responded with a 99 yard drive that put us down 2 scores. That crushed us. Had we scored on our drive rather than punting...who knows?

Wildcat jump pass is a stupid, stupid call every time it's intercepted. Wildcat jump pass is sheer, offensive genius everytime it' s completed for a score. On the other hand, a power run behind your big line is always the right call on short yardage situations unless you fail to score at which point it becomes predictable, vanilla offense and one that should cost the OC his job for not calling the wildcat jump pass.

BTW, I like using " Rosie the Dozer" in those short yard situations. He won't break any long ones but he's tough to stop for the first two yards.

Rosie the Dozer...lmao!

(11-22-2013 12:07 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  They were well coached. Fundamental reaction if anyone has played linebacker at just about any level. You watch the line to see if it is a run. If not sure because they hold their position, you do the same and read the backfield next..

Great point. I watched the video of this play yesterday, and the OL stands up to pass block on this play. If the D is reading their "keys" they know its a pass, and yes, the LB definitely knew it was a pass....he never even looked at the RB, he read pass the whole time. Now if the OL had "fired out" like its a run, now the LB must play it like a run and probably the TE is wide open. The only risk you take if the OL "fires out" is you might get a lineman downfield. So after watching the video, I really think the design of the play was flawed.
Anyway, time to move on. Face it, NIU was and still is better than us as long as Lynch is around.

Good analysis. The LB has to respect the run if the OL fire out. The TE also could have blocked and ran a delayed route to the flat and Hunt could have rolled out. Who's the LB going to cover TE or RB?

Thank you for the support you have shown on this board all football season. You have shown yourselves to be true supporters through thick and thin.


Signed,
The opposing team