vandiver49
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
(11-18-2013 02:34 PM)Wedge Wrote: (11-18-2013 01:48 PM)JRsec Wrote: (11-18-2013 01:04 PM)Wedge Wrote: (11-18-2013 12:49 PM)JRsec Wrote: Coach O is good enough to be a head coach. He's not socially acceptable enough to be head coach at USC. His personality is fine. He is a nice guy. What is not socially acceptable is all the "pretty boy stuff" that USC wants in a head coach. Orgeron's speaking voice is not Hollywood. Orgeron's size is not Hollywood. And therein lies his problem. He may be one of the few examples of having the right coach in the wrong place.
No, I think the hesitation over hiring Orgeron is his record at Ole Miss. IMO if he had a winning record at Ole Miss, instead of 10-35, he'd get the USC job. Ole Miss had a winning record in both the three years before Orgeron's three seasons there and the three seasons after Orgeron's tenure. It's not as easy to win at Ole Miss as it is at Bama or LSU, but a good head coach ought to be better than 10-35 there.
Think of it this way: If Orgeron hadn't been the interim HC at USC this year, would a guy with a career 10-35 record as an HC be on the short list for that job? No. Not even if he looked like Brad Pitt.
Wedge, I completely agree about O's record at Ole Miss. It's just that the chemistry "appears" to be different now. As for his looks versus his record, what record did Kiffin have to justify the job?
Much as I'd like to slam USC for being shallow, I can't say they only hire coaches who "look the part" -- John Robinson won a ton of games there, and his physique resembles Orgeron's. And Haden, I'm pretty sure, wants to win games more than maintain an image. Whether his hire succeeds or not, he's not doing it for media buzz.
If you could practically keep Orgeron for another year or two to see if the players still respond when he's the "real head coach" and not just the Not Lane Kiffin guy, that would be a good solution. But the way the business is run now, these guys get long-term contracts with massive buyouts, and it's understandable that you'd hesitate to give one of those to Orgeron.
If we're talking about someone like Jack del Rio taking over USC, keeping Orgeron on his staff would be a major asset.
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11-18-2013 02:37 PM |
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HeartOfDixie
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
USC can afford whomever they want. Value isn't a consideration for them.
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11-18-2013 02:38 PM |
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JRsec
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
(11-18-2013 02:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: (11-18-2013 01:45 PM)JRsec Wrote: (11-18-2013 01:35 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: Let's be honest, he's running a system another man put together.
USC doesn't have to go for a value coach. They can have just about whomever they wish.
My bet is Ed is able to turn this into a good job for himself moving forward.
What system has Kiffin ever put together?
The one at USC.
It isn't as if Ed has installed his own system at USC; he's an interim that's maximizing what has already been laid down.
Ed's success really just shows how Kiffin had really lost the program and he, personally, was the problem.
That's my point. Kiffin had no system. The recruiting has been there for him initially at Tennessee and at USC. His M.O. is to stock talent and fail to do anything with it. Unfortunately at Tennessee he ran them off as fast as he recruited them and then tried to take some with him to USC when he left. In other words he torpedoed the program before leaving it. U.S.C. once had a system, a recruiting system (which is still mostly intact) and a development system which I need to see evidence of beyond Pete Carroll.
My point is that Kiffin has never had a system past hoodwinking recruits.
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11-18-2013 03:46 PM |
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swampbear
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
(11-18-2013 12:36 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: I'm with Vandiver; the Ole Miss catastrophe shows the kind of head coach he may end up being.
Now, a G5 school who loses their coach better jump on him. If Hudspeth leaves Louisiana then I'd hope they would give him a call ASAP.
Nope
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11-18-2013 04:28 PM |
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BuzDawg73
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
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11-18-2013 04:42 PM |
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HeartOfDixie
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
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11-18-2013 04:46 PM |
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MJG
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
(11-18-2013 12:36 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: I'm with Vandiver; the Ole Miss catastrophe shows the kind of head coach he may end up being.
Now, a G5 school who loses their coach better jump on him. If Hudspeth leaves Louisiana then I'd hope they would give him a call ASAP.
This makes to much sense plus being a former SEC and USC coach gives him more credibility than almost any G5 coach .
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11-18-2013 05:11 PM |
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He1nousOne
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
So a man cannot learn from previous mistakes? Perhaps that says more about everyone else and less about him. His less than orthodox methodology seems to have worked well in quickly bringing together a blue chip lush roster.
Thinking that anyone else could just walk in and take over after those kids have rallied behind Orgeron, that kind of thinking is just ignorant in my opinion.
Psychology is always involved.
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11-18-2013 07:55 PM |
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HeartOfDixie
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
(11-18-2013 07:55 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: So a man cannot learn from previous mistakes? Perhaps that says more about everyone else and less about him. His less than orthodox methodology seems to have worked well in quickly bringing together a blue chip lush roster.
Thinking that anyone else could just walk in and take over after those kids have rallied behind Orgeron, that kind of thinking is just ignorant in my opinion.
Psychology is always involved.
I don't disagree.
However, a coach's past performance is really the only thing you can use.
Ed has done a great job getting those kids to play like he has but it's a perfectly legitimate issue to point to his performance at Ole Miss and question whether or not he can have sustained success.
Plus, I think they have already reconciled with the fact that next year will be a building process no matter who they hire.
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11-18-2013 08:25 PM |
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He1nousOne
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
(11-18-2013 08:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: (11-18-2013 07:55 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: So a man cannot learn from previous mistakes? Perhaps that says more about everyone else and less about him. His less than orthodox methodology seems to have worked well in quickly bringing together a blue chip lush roster.
Thinking that anyone else could just walk in and take over after those kids have rallied behind Orgeron, that kind of thinking is just ignorant in my opinion.
Psychology is always involved.
I don't disagree.
However, a coach's past performance is really the only thing you can use.
Ed has done a great job getting those kids to play like he has but it's a perfectly legitimate issue to point to his performance at Ole Miss and question whether or not he can have sustained success.
Plus, I think they have already reconciled with the fact that next year will be a building process no matter who they hire.
I think if a guy like Del Rio is interested then you HAVE to interview him. The Board has to show due diligence in the hiring process. Even if Orgeron has it in the bag, they cant just offer him it without looking at anyone else.
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2013 09:11 PM by He1nousOne.)
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11-18-2013 08:53 PM |
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HeartOfDixie
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
(11-18-2013 08:53 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: (11-18-2013 08:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: (11-18-2013 07:55 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: So a man cannot learn from previous mistakes? Perhaps that says more about everyone else and less about him. His less than orthodox methodology seems to have worked well in quickly bringing together a blue chip lush roster.
Thinking that anyone else could just walk in and take over after those kids have rallied behind Orgeron, that kind of thinking is just ignorant in my opinion.
Psychology is always involved.
I don't disagree.
However, a coach's past performance is really the only thing you can use.
Ed has done a great job getting those kids to play like he has but it's a perfectly legitimate issue to point to his performance at Ole Miss and question whether or not he can have sustained success.
Plus, I think they have already reconciled with the fact that next year will be a building process no matter who they hire.
I think if a guy like Del Rio is interested then you HAVE to interview him. The Board has to show due diligence in the hiring process. Even if Orgeron has it in the bag, they cant just offer him it without looking at anyone else.
I can't speak for the USC folks but if I interviewed Del Rio then I'd give him the job over Ed.
Either way, USC pretty much can do as they please and get whomever they wish.
It should be interesting to see play out.
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11-18-2013 10:37 PM |
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He1nousOne
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
(11-18-2013 10:37 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: (11-18-2013 08:53 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: (11-18-2013 08:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: (11-18-2013 07:55 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: So a man cannot learn from previous mistakes? Perhaps that says more about everyone else and less about him. His less than orthodox methodology seems to have worked well in quickly bringing together a blue chip lush roster.
Thinking that anyone else could just walk in and take over after those kids have rallied behind Orgeron, that kind of thinking is just ignorant in my opinion.
Psychology is always involved.
I don't disagree.
However, a coach's past performance is really the only thing you can use.
Ed has done a great job getting those kids to play like he has but it's a perfectly legitimate issue to point to his performance at Ole Miss and question whether or not he can have sustained success.
Plus, I think they have already reconciled with the fact that next year will be a building process no matter who they hire.
I think if a guy like Del Rio is interested then you HAVE to interview him. The Board has to show due diligence in the hiring process. Even if Orgeron has it in the bag, they cant just offer him it without looking at anyone else.
I can't speak for the USC folks but if I interviewed Del Rio then I'd give him the job over Ed.
Either way, USC pretty much can do as they please and get whomever they wish.
It should be interesting to see play out.
Del Rio being an Alumni too gives him major points with the Board. It would take a guy like him to beat out Orgeron. The season isn't over yet. If USC continues onward, it is only going to be even more difficult for the Board to not select him.
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11-18-2013 10:48 PM |
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stever20
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
I think if Haden didn't/doesn't want Orgeron- he just should be glad that USC lost to Notre Dame. If they had won that game, they are in the top 14 right now, and are a(the) favorite to make the BCS this year to play Clemson likely.
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11-19-2013 12:20 AM |
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DawgNBama
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
Next season, I don't know. Year after next, maybe. I'm pretty sure by that time UF might be in the market for a new HC, and UGa might be also. Sometimes the SEC gives its rejects a second chance. Maybe Orgeron will get one of those.
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11-19-2013 03:59 PM |
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GSU Eagles
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
(11-18-2013 12:49 PM)JRsec Wrote: Coach O is good enough to be a head coach. He's not socially acceptable enough to be head coach at USC. His personality is fine. He is a nice guy. What is not socially acceptable is all the "pretty boy stuff" that USC wants in a head coach. Orgeron's speaking voice is not Hollywood. Orgeron's size is not Hollywood. And therein lies his problem. He may be one of the few examples of having the right coach in the wrong place.
Ole John Robinson would have been a Hollywood movie star had he not decided to coach football at USC.
All kidding aside, Orgeron will not be the coach at USC.
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2013 05:05 PM by GSU Eagles.)
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11-20-2013 05:04 PM |
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Kaplony
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
(11-18-2013 10:48 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: (11-18-2013 10:37 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: (11-18-2013 08:53 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: (11-18-2013 08:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: (11-18-2013 07:55 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: So a man cannot learn from previous mistakes? Perhaps that says more about everyone else and less about him. His less than orthodox methodology seems to have worked well in quickly bringing together a blue chip lush roster.
Thinking that anyone else could just walk in and take over after those kids have rallied behind Orgeron, that kind of thinking is just ignorant in my opinion.
Psychology is always involved.
I don't disagree.
However, a coach's past performance is really the only thing you can use.
Ed has done a great job getting those kids to play like he has but it's a perfectly legitimate issue to point to his performance at Ole Miss and question whether or not he can have sustained success.
Plus, I think they have already reconciled with the fact that next year will be a building process no matter who they hire.
I think if a guy like Del Rio is interested then you HAVE to interview him. The Board has to show due diligence in the hiring process. Even if Orgeron has it in the bag, they cant just offer him it without looking at anyone else.
I can't speak for the USC folks but if I interviewed Del Rio then I'd give him the job over Ed.
Either way, USC pretty much can do as they please and get whomever they wish.
It should be interesting to see play out.
Del Rio being an Alumni too gives him major points with the Board. It would take a guy like him to beat out Orgeron. The season isn't over yet. If USC continues onward, it is only going to be even more difficult for the Board to not select him.
Not to mention the fact that it is entirely possible the Del Rio isn't available to be the full time HC until the Monday before signing day.
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11-20-2013 06:05 PM |
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He1nousOne
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
(11-20-2013 06:05 PM)Kaplony Wrote: (11-18-2013 10:48 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: (11-18-2013 10:37 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: (11-18-2013 08:53 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: (11-18-2013 08:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote: I don't disagree.
However, a coach's past performance is really the only thing you can use.
Ed has done a great job getting those kids to play like he has but it's a perfectly legitimate issue to point to his performance at Ole Miss and question whether or not he can have sustained success.
Plus, I think they have already reconciled with the fact that next year will be a building process no matter who they hire.
I think if a guy like Del Rio is interested then you HAVE to interview him. The Board has to show due diligence in the hiring process. Even if Orgeron has it in the bag, they cant just offer him it without looking at anyone else.
I can't speak for the USC folks but if I interviewed Del Rio then I'd give him the job over Ed.
Either way, USC pretty much can do as they please and get whomever they wish.
It should be interesting to see play out.
Del Rio being an Alumni too gives him major points with the Board. It would take a guy like him to beat out Orgeron. The season isn't over yet. If USC continues onward, it is only going to be even more difficult for the Board to not select him.
Not to mention the fact that it is entirely possible the Del Rio isn't available to be the full time HC until the Monday before signing day.
Yeah, I suppose that could be possible too. I am not privy to any such details. I definitely think Orgeron appears to be fighting for the job, safe to say they havn't even whispered to him yet that the job is his. The reality is that he was the Defensive Line coach and they gave it to him because he had the most Head Coaching experience of the coaches on the staff (I think). That might earn him a promotion but a promotion to Head Coach would basically be a double promotion. If anyone has earned such a double promotion though, it would be Orgeron and what he has done to turn that program around on a dime.
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2013 07:13 PM by He1nousOne.)
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11-20-2013 07:12 PM |
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He1nousOne
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
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11-21-2013 07:37 PM |
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Kaplony
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RE: Will Orgeron be a head coach next season if USC doesn't hire him?
I can't place where I heard/read it, but someone mentioned in the last week that Orgeron isn't totally opposed to returning to USC next season as DL coach/Recruiting Coordinator. If Del Rio is the one who ends up with the job it wouldn't be a bad move at all to keep a strong recruiter like the Ragin' Cajun on staff.
That being said, I would imagine that with the job he has done he should get some looks from any school with an opening. Sure he failed at Ole Miss, but Ole Miss is tough place for anybody to win at. Not only do you have to play two 800lb gorillas every year in Bame and LSU, but you are recruiting in one of the most heavily recruited areas in the country.
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11-21-2013 09:32 PM |
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