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What an 8-Team National Playoff would look like with current BCS rankings.
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BIgCatonProwl Offline
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Post: #41
RE: What an 8-Team National Playoff would look like with current BCS rankings.
(11-18-2013 02:09 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(11-18-2013 01:40 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The thing is Frank, if you are buying the power of $$$, I think you would have to agree that TV isn't going to want something like this year where if Oregon had beaten Stanford a 2 vs 4 or 5 quarterfinal game- or on the other hand having a Michigan St/UCLA-Arizona St game with both being seeded 6/7. TV wants a natural buildup and if you have a 2 vs 4 game 1st round- that knocks out 1 really good team right away that should make the sf.

Well, it's a give and take. Are the TV networks bothered when the SEC Championship Game knocks out a team that would otherwise make the playoff (i.e. last year)? Heck no! Honestly, the only time that TV gets really queasy is when a no-name brand team gets through. Fresno State or Northern Illinois beating Alabama in the first round is where a TV disaster ensues. In fact, guaranteeing that a marketable team from either the Big Ten or Pac-12 advances from the Rose Bowl is a much more compelling hedge for TV interests. Even within the power conference ranks, who do you think the TV people want to see in a hypothetical playoff this year: the winner of Ohio State/Oregon or any game involving Baylor, regardless of whether Baylor is seeded higher? The seeding is very minor to TV interests compared to the brand names that are playing.

What TV interests *do* care about (and I've heard this directly from someone that would know) are elimination games. That's what made the "true" plus-one proposal (where the traditional bowls are played and then the #1 vs. #2 matchup determined after that) untenable. So, the TV people definitely want knockout games, but the fan bases and brand names involved are more critical than the seedings to them. They'll take USC/Ohio State/Florida/Texas ranked anywhere over a #1 Baylor. (That's not a knock against Baylor as a team - they can play with anyone this year. It's simply a reflection of the TV desirability.)

I’m sensing something insidious and totally in conflict and downright Un-American to what true sports is about in this nation and what TV execs want it to be. What tv exec’s want is totally alien to what true sports is about. They did not invent football, basketball, these sports and others were created and made for the per enjoyment and entertainment by those and of those, who wanted to participate in such sports and for those who wanted to watch these athletes perform in the pure act of competition by those who were participating in these sports or games. This was the foundation and principles upon, what the ancient Greek Games were built on and to which our present day culture derives much of its sense of what good sportmanship is and fair play is, to this very day. If the people who are the powers that be forget this and totally sell out the sport to the t.v. people because certain perceived teams might not get the rating, and therefore we need to rig a system to assure the type of outcome we want. Whereby they, quote and quote get the right result with the right teams, in the right contests , then it's not a true contest, and it’s not true sport, it’s something, but it’s not true sport, it’ll be nothing more, than something that is akin or tantamount to a Japanese kabuki dance, all based on what t.v. money wants. I know I maybe a voice in the wilderness. I know I may be speaking to an audience that’s enamored with we are the royalty of football ala the NFL saying to the AFL, but once the Jet’s beat Baltimore, it did away with this fallacious argument the NFL merged with the AFL . The Baylor’s the G5's and the other’s like’em deserve just as much as a shot as Texas or any other so called marquee team at a NC. I personally believe rating would not suffer. Hence, that’s why I have as my signature the sum can be no greater than its parts as my signature because the sum cannot be.
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2013 09:59 PM by BIgCatonProwl.)
11-18-2013 03:51 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: What an 8-Team National Playoff would look like with current BCS rankings.
I think you also look at the basketball tournament. They put in changes this year to make it more where it'll be true seeding rather than having a ton of teams moved 1 seed line to accomdate scheduling rules. Also, a few years back, they started seeding the entire tournament, making it where if all 4 teams made the final 4, it'd be 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3. End of the day, they know that matters. They had a few years where 1/2 played in the sf, and it made the final game a joke in some ways. I think the same principals apply to the football.
11-18-2013 04:01 PM
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FloridaJag Offline
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Post: #43
RE: What an 8-Team National Playoff would look like with current BCS rankings.
(11-18-2013 02:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(11-18-2013 02:26 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(11-18-2013 01:42 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(11-18-2013 01:40 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(11-18-2013 01:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I think one major point Frank is that the 1st round would likely be done prior to the 1st of the year. I don't think they want to extend the season to where the title game is being played 3rd week in January. I think they already aren't all that happy that the title game is some years like 13th of January. now imagine extending out another week. I don't think so.


The first round would actually be the Conference Championship games. You win and your in.

TV has shown time and time again they want no part of this. Just look at the playoff we are getting next year. It's in no way conference champions only. Like 2 years ago, TV wanted Alabama over Wisconsin 100%.

This year the conference championship games look like

Alabama vs Missouri
Oregon vs Arizona State
Michigan State vs Ohio State
Bowling Green vs Northern Illinois
Fresno State vs Boise State
East Carolina vs North Texas

Then you could match

UCF vs ULL
Baylor vs Notre Dame


That is a 16 game playoff that the whole nation will/would be watching.

sorry that's doa

Why is it DOA? Except for the last two that is the Conference Championship games starting in two weeks.

I just realized that I forgot FSU vs Duke.

Alabama vs Missouri
Oregon vs Arizona State
Michigan State vs Ohio State
Florida State vs Duke
Bowling Green vs Northern Illinois
Fresno State vs Boise State
East Carolina vs North Texas
UCF vs ULL
Baylor vs Notre Dame
11-18-2013 04:04 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: What an 8-Team National Playoff would look like with current BCS rankings.
the conferences have already indicated they have no zero nada interest in a conference champions only model. If they were going to do it, it happens with 4 teams. If they go up to 8 teams, they're not going to make it more restrictive. The conference champions only model is totally doa.
11-18-2013 04:10 PM
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FloridaJag Offline
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Post: #45
RE: What an 8-Team National Playoff would look like with current BCS rankings.
(11-18-2013 04:10 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the conferences have already indicated they have no zero nada interest in a conference champions only model. If they were going to do it, it happens with 4 teams. If they go up to 8 teams, they're not going to make it more restrictive. The conference champions only model is totally doa.

No that was the SEC and PAC 12 position. I beleive the Big TEN and the ACC would be ok with the Champions model.
11-18-2013 04:26 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: What an 8-Team National Playoff would look like with current BCS rankings.
(11-18-2013 04:26 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(11-18-2013 04:10 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the conferences have already indicated they have no zero nada interest in a conference champions only model. If they were going to do it, it happens with 4 teams. If they go up to 8 teams, they're not going to make it more restrictive. The conference champions only model is totally doa.

No that was the SEC and PAC 12 position. I beleive the Big TEN and the ACC would be ok with the Champions model.

And what system do we have? Exactly.
11-18-2013 04:27 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #47
RE: What an 8-Team National Playoff would look like with current BCS rankings.
(11-18-2013 03:32 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(11-18-2013 03:14 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  No, I don't think it's crap. It's the truth based on years and years of ratings data.

Are you so sure the Rose Bowl only does well on TV when it's a Pac-12 vs. Big Ten game?

The two BCS-era Rose Bowls that were not BCS title games and didn't have a Pac vs. B1G matchup (Washington State vs. Oklahoma, and Wisconsin vs. TCU) still had better TV ratings than every bowl game that year other than the BCS title game. The Rose Bowl in '03 was unhappy that the Orange had USC-Iowa while the Rose had Wazzu-OU, yet the Rose still had far better TV ratings that year.

One might argue that the Rose Bowl brand, plus the choice time slot, plus any attractive matchup, would get great TV ratings.

The Big Ten and old Pac-10 built that brand and are an inextricable part of that, though. A novelty of schools outside of those conferences playing (particularly when they're marquee schools like Oklahoma and Texas) is one thing, but it's an entirely different matter when it becomes an annual thing, in which case, it ceases to be the Rose Bowl and simply becomes a game on January 1st that happens to be played in Pasadena. I'd say the same thing about the Sugar Bowl - it ain't the Sugar Bowl when it doesn't feature an SEC team. This is already sadly going to be diluted with the current CFP system.

Plus, you have to compare those Rose Bowl matchups you noted to what could have been and how they compared relatively speaking. The Wazzu-OU and Wisconsin-TCU Rose Bowls had the 2nd and 3rd worst Rose Bowl TV ratings in the history of it being on over-the-air television (the only one worse than them was the Illinois-USC blowout of the 2006-07 season, and even then we're only talking about less than a tenth of ratings point difference). Under the system I proposed above, the Wazzu-OU game would have instead featured then-#2 Ohio State, while that Wisconsin-TCU matchup would have instead featured then-#1 Oregon (both of which would have been ratings monsters, not to mention great competitive matchups that were playoff worthy by any standard).
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2013 04:35 PM by Frank the Tank.)
11-18-2013 04:34 PM
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FloridaJag Offline
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Post: #48
RE: What an 8-Team National Playoff would look like with current BCS rankings.
(11-18-2013 04:27 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(11-18-2013 04:26 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(11-18-2013 04:10 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the conferences have already indicated they have no zero nada interest in a conference champions only model. If they were going to do it, it happens with 4 teams. If they go up to 8 teams, they're not going to make it more restrictive. The conference champions only model is totally doa.

No that was the SEC and PAC 12 position. I beleive the Big TEN and the ACC would be ok with the Champions model.

And what system do we have? Exactly.

Yep that was this go round. The BE imploded and the G5 were paid off by adding 3 more crappy bowls. Boca Raton and Bahamas Bowls... I can't remember the other.

In 4 years they will be talking about expanding the playoffs to 8 teams. The other conferences will not stand to be left out because the SEC gets its No. 1 and 2 teams in the championship every year. Remember the LSU/Bama debacle. Therefore:

2019 Playoff

1. SEC Champ
2. PAC 12 Champ
3. Big Ten Champ
4. ACC Champ
5. Big 12 Champ
6. SEC #2
7. Best of the Rest
8. 2nd Best of the Rest
11-18-2013 04:37 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #49
RE: What an 8-Team National Playoff would look like with current BCS rankings.
(11-18-2013 10:41 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  Perhaps the NonBCS conferences could open up the 8-team playoff to include more than 1 NonBCS team with some kind of proposal, perhaps something like this.
I'd expect it to be the 5 P5 conference champions, the "best" Go5 champion, and two "best" remaining at-large picks.

I think the step up from a guaranteed spot in an big money exhibition game to a guaranteed spot in the national championship playoffs would be considered a big enough concession to the Go5, the access to the second team would be via being good enough to be one of the at-large picks.

The least disruption to the existing bowl system would be to push the start of the football season back one week, have the conference championships Thanksgiving weekend, then the four quarter-final games as higher ranked hosts lower ranked.

Then the four who fail to play into the existing four school semi-final would be included in the other big money bowls alongside four other picks.
11-18-2013 04:57 PM
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CPslograd Offline
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Post: #50
RE: What an 8-Team National Playoff would look like with current BCS rankings.
(11-18-2013 04:57 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(11-18-2013 10:41 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  Perhaps the NonBCS conferences could open up the 8-team playoff to include more than 1 NonBCS team with some kind of proposal, perhaps something like this.
I'd expect it to be the 5 P5 conference champions, the "best" Go5 champion, and two "best" remaining at-large picks.

I think the step up from a guaranteed spot in an big money exhibition game to a guaranteed spot in the national championship playoffs would be considered a big enough concession to the Go5, the access to the second team would be via being good enough to be one of the at-large picks.

The least disruption to the existing bowl system would be to push the start of the football season back one week, have the conference championships Thanksgiving weekend, then the four quarter-final games as higher ranked hosts lower ranked.

Then the four who fail to play into the existing four school semi-final would be included in the other big money bowls alongside four other picks.

No way in the world they would give up one of just 3 at large spots to the G5.

A G5 team would have to qualify as one of the top 3 at larges (after the conference champs).
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2013 06:35 PM by CPslograd.)
11-18-2013 06:33 PM
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SoulsAstray Offline
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Post: #51
RE: What an 8-Team National Playoff would look like with current BCS rankings.
8 is too small
I think 12 is perfect


top 4 seeds get a bye week
5-12 play in the first week.
top 11 teams in the poll go, 1 non-aq is picked out. 2 non-aq's can enter if they're both in the top 11(this will be a very rare occurrence)
all games are played at the highest seeds stadium except for the championship game.
championship game will be at the rose/sugar/orange, it'll switch every year.
11-18-2013 07:00 PM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #52
RE: What an 8-Team National Playoff would look like with current BCS rankings.
(11-18-2013 06:33 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  No way in the world they would give up one of just 3 at large spots to the G5.

A G5 team would have to qualify as one of the top 3 at larges (after the conference champs).

There would have to be a minimum ranking. In the top 12, or ahead of an existing AQ. One and only one slot. The other two would exclusively be the highest remaining non-CC clubs in the polls.

Then you can slot them appropriately:

Rose: Pac vs B1G
Orange: ACC vs At-Large/AQ
Fiesta: Big 12 vs At-Large/AQ
Sugar: SEC vs At-Large/AQ

Cotton/Peach would be semifinals. Then you rotate those 6 bowls in and out as QF and SF games, with the NC game bid out.
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2013 09:15 AM by RUScarlets.)
11-19-2013 09:12 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: What an 8-Team National Playoff would look like with current BCS rankings.
I'm sorry but the anchors just screw up everything.

just look at 2009- the ultimate reason why it will never happen
Rose 7 Oregon vs 8 Ohio St
Sugar 1 Alabama vs 4 TCU
Cotton 2 Texas vs 5 Florida
Orange 9 Ga Tech vs 3 Cincy

So While Alabama and Texas have to play the 4 and 5 teams in the country, 7 and 8 get to play each other and 3 gets to play 9. I'm sorry- but that is a complete non starter.

you say that's just 1 year-
2008-
1 Oklahoma vs 4 Alabama
2 Florida vs 6 Utah
5 USC vs 8 Penn St
19 Va Tech vs 3 Texas

so while 5 and 8 play- 1 has to play 4 and 2 has to play 6. Meanwhile 3 plays 19. You see, that is a complete farce of a playoff. The networks know no one would believe in the validity of that setup at all.

Especially when if you did it right
1 Oklahoma vs 19 Va Tech
4 Alabama vs 5 USC
2 Florida vs 8 Penn St
3 Texas vs 6 Utah

You think the networks wouldn't have loved an Alabama/USC game? Or a Florida/Penn St game? come on now. Not to mention the 2nd round games.
11-19-2013 10:20 AM
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Underdog Offline
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Post: #54
RE: What an 8-Team National Playoff would look like with current BCS rankings.
(11-18-2013 11:27 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(11-18-2013 10:41 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  Perhaps the NonBCS conferences could open up the 8-team playoff to include more than 1 NonBCS team with some kind of proposal, perhaps something like this.

For the #7 and #8 spots, a NonBCS team would play a "play-in" game against a BCS team. For example, #16 Northern Illinois would play #9 Stanford and #15 Fresno State would play #10 Oklahoma State.

This would expand the 8-team to give 8 BCS teams a shot at the national title, rather than 7. BCS would also make more money. And, for the NonBCS conferences, it would get 2 NonBCS teams into the National Playoff picture rather than just 1. This would be an enhanced recruiting enticement.

My guess is there is a tremendous amount of money being made off the 4 game national playoff and an 8/10 team National Playoff would double that humongous amount of money. So, I do think BCS will expand the 4 game playoff---AND THROUGH COOPERATION--the five NonBCS conferences should come up with some kind of strategy to participate in a bigger manner. If the NonBCS conferences are to find a way for an enhanced participation, it will be through gaining support among the sporting public who like to see fair play; pursuing the "best of the NonBCS rest" strategy will get you a cup of coffee and a nice seat in the end zone.

The more correct observation is that it may be extremely difficult just to get 1 NonBCS team included in the 4 or 8 game national playoff, as BCS will obviously, as they have some many times in the past, stack the deck against NonBCS teams. It may take COOPERATION among the 5 NonBCS teams just to get 1 NonBCS team automatically included in the national playoff.

If you want to sell an 8-team playoff to the powers that be, I still believe the road to this is to simply use the bowl structure with traditional tie-ins:

Rose: Big Ten vs. Pac-12
Sugar: SEC vs. at-large
Orange: ACC vs. at-large
Fiesta (or Cotton): Big 12 vs. at-large

One of the at-larges could be reserved for the top Group of Five champ (although as you've stated, that's going to take a lot of prodding). That would give us the following playoff:

Rose: #3 Ohio State vs. #5 Oregon
Sugar: #1 Alabama vs. #15 Fresno State
Orange: #2 Florida State vs. #6 Auburn*
Fiesta (or Cotton): #4 Baylor vs. #7 Clemson*

(* I definitely agree that you want to avoid rematches and intra-conference games in the first round.)

That looks like a sweet playoff to me with the tradition of the bowls maintained and, most importantly, you could conceivably see the power conferences sign up for this since such bowls allow them to maintain control (and the money that comes with it) over the overall system. Frankly, that would be more traditional than the new CFP system yet it would still expand the playoff access. Anyone can design a playoff system that he/she personally likes, but the challenge is to design a playoff system that the power conferences (most notably, the Big Ten and SEC) will actually agree to implement.

This isn’t practical, and I’ll explain why using Ohio St as an example:

Ohio St fans would have to travel to the Rose Bowl for the game and spend lots of $$$$ in the process (they aren’t going to travel all the way to warm California for just two days). Let’s assume Ohio St wins, now these fans (or some other Ohio St fans) have to travel to another bowl the following week and spend more $$$$ for another playoff game. Ohio St makes it to the championship game. Consequently, do you think these fans are going to spend even more $$$$ on traveling to another bowl the next week? Not happening…. Moreover, the four team playoff will struggle to work for the same aforementioned reasons. Therefore, the logical solution is to emulate the NFL—the highest seeded schools host the playoff games; only the championship game is played at a neutral site. With this format, an eight team playoff is practical for the fans to attend……
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2013 11:06 AM by Underdog.)
11-19-2013 10:41 AM
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