(11-13-2013 08:21 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 06:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  It will continue. The other factor, besides parents encouraging their sons to try other sports instead of football, is the trend towards kids playing just one sport year-round instead of being multi-sport athletes in school. The latter is having a big effect on football participation in high school already. I've heard about high schools that used to have 80-90 players on their team that now have only about 50 or so on the first day of fall practice. Back in the day high school sports relied on the best athletes playing two or three different sports for their high school.

All true.

Plus, football is the most expensive sport to play, from the standpoint of a family trying to scrape together the $$$ for cleats, uniforms, insurance, etc.

Nope. Hockey. Hockey is brutal.

(11-13-2013 09:20 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 07:52 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  I played football most of my childhood, and honestly in hindsight, I could have held off with tackle football until at least 8th grade and it wouldn't have affected my skill level throughout high school. I love football, but I have a 14 year old son who is a large kid (5'10" and 180lbs, ding!) and I prefer him to stay focused on academics until at least 9th grade. Anyways, just my .02.

I started in the 4th grade, if definitely gave me a leg up when I started playing in middle and high school because my technique was so much better than other my age who were just starting.

I began at 6. I was big enough to play with 9-10 year olds in a non Pop Warner youth football leauge.

My son, 11, did not start playing until this season for a 2nd year Pop Warner team 15 miles away.

PW has really taken the concussion deal seriously and advertises 20% less head injuries than youth soccer.

My opionion is that they do this by

1 grouping kids together by weight rather than age

2 They limit hitting to only 30% (or 20%?) of practice time

We loved Pop Warner, it has been great for us.......every player is in for at least 10 plays a game.

(11-13-2013 09:17 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 09:13 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I don't really understand the reasoning behind little kids playing football. I would rather let my kids play basketball and soccer until they are teenagers so they can become athletic and just have fun. If they want to play football then just go outside and play with the kids at school or in the neighborhood.

Yeah, I agree with this.

I don't understand the point in organized youth football with helmets, etc. We just played on an open grass field, the snow, whatever. 2 on 2, 3 on 3, however many we had.

My son played some flag football, but that's different than these peewee football leagues.

I never played in uniform until Jr. High.

(11-13-2013 09:57 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 08:21 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Plus, football is the most expensive sport to play, from the standpoint of a family trying to scrape together the $$$ for cleats, uniforms, insurance, etc.

Nope. Hockey. Hockey is brutal.

You got me there. I admit, hockey is so far off my radar that I don't even think about it. But yeah, I do realize that youth-hockey is a very big deal up north.

(11-13-2013 09:44 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 08:24 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 08:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think it will continue to drop until parents realize the head injury issue is not unique to football.

It's not Unique to football, true. But does anyone honestly deny that head & spinal injuries are more common in football than (say) rowing, or basketball, or tennis, or baseball?

I don't think they are as common but any active and physical sport will have those injuries. The only safe sport is probably is probably golf.

Have you ever been on a golf course when it rains? Do you know how many golfers get killed by lightning?
And probably some from falling tree limbs and getting hit by a stray ball.

(and if anyone knows someone that has happened to, sorry, not trying to make light of a tragedy-I've been 50 yards from a lightning strike on a golf course-on the green I had left a couple minutes before).

(11-13-2013 10:00 PM)Bacca Buc Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 09:20 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 07:52 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  I played football most of my childhood, and honestly in hindsight, I could have held off with tackle football until at least 8th grade and it wouldn't have affected my skill level throughout high school. I love football, but I have a 14 year old son who is a large kid (5'10" and 180lbs, ding!) and I prefer him to stay focused on academics until at least 9th grade. Anyways, just my .02.

I started in the 4th grade, if definitely gave me a leg up when I started playing in middle and high school because my technique was so much better than other my age who were just starting.

I began at 6. I was big enough to play with 9-10 year olds in a non Pop Warner youth football leauge.

My son, 11, did not start playing until this season for a 2nd year Pop Warner team 15 miles away.

PW has really taken the concussion deal seriously and advertises 20% less head injuries than youth soccer.

My opionion is that they do this by

1 grouping kids together by weight rather than age

2 They limit hitting to only 30% (or 20%?) of practice time

We loved Pop Warner, it has been great for us.......every player is in for at least 10 plays a game.

I had a nephew get injured in one of these games at 9 or 10 years old-and go back in. For a couple months, he had to limit activity-not too many car rides. He was a pretty big kid for his age.

(11-13-2013 10:41 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 09:44 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 08:24 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 08:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think it will continue to drop until parents realize the head injury issue is not unique to football.

It's not Unique to football, true. But does anyone honestly deny that head & spinal injuries are more common in football than (say) rowing, or basketball, or tennis, or baseball?

I don't think they are as common but any active and physical sport will have those injuries. The only safe sport is probably is probably golf.

Have you ever been on a golf course when it rains? Do you know how many golfers get killed by lightning?
And probably some from falling tree limbs and getting hit by a stray ball.

(and if anyone knows someone that has happened to, sorry, not trying to make light of a tragedy-I've been 50 yards from a lightning strike on a golf course-on the green I had left a couple minutes before).

Golf is terribly unhealthy. It made my grandfather who took it up in the 1920's utter his only profanities. It has caused numerous friends and business clients to suffer divorces. It has caused more than a few to drink. And it makes liars out of a lot of folks (not so much by cheating on the score as in remembering their greatest shots inaccurately and just flat out lying about what their buddies did). And it is the only game I know of that can ruin a perfectly great day spent out in nature.

(11-13-2013 06:14 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  While youth football participation may be dropping nationally, it is growing in Mississippi.

The question that should be asked is participation truly dropped or have more and more local leagues gone away from Pop Warner as they have determined the costs from the national organization are something that can be avoided, thus providing the same service at a lower cost. I know with the local league both of my sons played in it was determined that for the most part we were already pretty much within the guidelines Pop Warner required, and essentially we would be kicking money to a national organization with little benefit. Our participation numbers have dropped some with the economy like it is, but it is nothing any different than what the other sports leagues other than baseball (We are a HUGE baseball community) have seen. If anything what has hurt our participation has been travel baseball going on pretty much year round in these parts.

(11-13-2013 05:43 PM)stever20 Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page...sal-factor

Just saw this. Pop Warner seen a 9.5% drop in participation the last 2 years. Have to think a primary reason of course are the head injuries. a lot of parents just aren't going to allow their kids to play football.

It will be interesting to see if these drops continue over the next 5-10 years. If so, how does that impact other sports- instead of an athlete going into football, do they go to baseball or basketball instead? How will that impact the entire dynamic of all sports.

People will always drive race cars, box, and do other dangerous stuff. I say put the leather helments back on them and see how many guys use their heads as weapons.

(11-13-2013 11:20 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  I say put the leather helments back on them and see how many guys use their heads as weapons.

I know Ditka has called for taking the face-masks off of the helmets. Players will have a completely different attitude about tackling.

(11-13-2013 11:03 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 06:14 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  While youth football participation may be dropping nationally, it is growing in Mississippi.

The question that should be asked is participation truly dropped or have more and more local leagues gone away from Pop Warner as they have determined the costs from the national organization are something that can be avoided, thus providing the same service at a lower cost. I know with the local league both of my sons played in it was determined that for the most part we were already pretty much within the guidelines Pop Warner required, and essentially we would be kicking money to a national organization with little benefit. Our participation numbers have dropped some with the economy like it is, but it is nothing any different than what the other sports leagues other than baseball (We are a HUGE baseball community) have seen. If anything what has hurt our participation has been travel baseball going on pretty much year round in these parts.

No one I know of plays Pop Warner around here. MYFA just associated with USA Football this season, but I'm not sure they will continue the association.

Travel baseball has gotten pretty big here too, but the leagues are still strong. Select teams in soccer have been around for quite a while, though it seems to have gotten even bigger. We have hundreds come to town for swim meets, although the area high schools haven't done all they could to increase participation. There just aren't enough coaches and the schools don't want to pay even a small supplement for a swim coach or two. With the facilities we have, every high school in the area should have a swim team. I'm pushing for schools here to start volleyball for girls and wrestling for boys.

(11-13-2013 07:52 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  I played football most of my childhood, and honestly in hindsight, I could have held off with tackle football until at least 8th grade and it wouldn't have affected my skill level throughout high school. I love football, but I have a 14 year old son who is a large kid (5'10" and 180lbs, ding!) and I prefer him to stay focused on academics until at least 9th grade. Anyways, just my .02.

Smart thinking. He could pick up more from watching football regularly than playing it.

(11-13-2013 06:19 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 05:43 PM)stever20 Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page...sal-factor

Just saw this. Pop Warner seen a 9.5% drop in participation the last 2 years. Have to think a primary reason of course are the head injuries. a lot of parents just aren't going to allow their kids to play football.

It will be interesting to see if these drops continue over the next 5-10 years. If so, how does that impact other sports- instead of an athlete going into football, do they go to baseball or basketball instead? How will that impact the entire dynamic of all sports.

This is the issue the football powers, both college and pro, need to address. The problem is they cannot say they have solved the brain trauma problem because they do not understand it yet.

If it turns out little, regular hits to the head during normal play cause brain trauma then football is finished. If only the big shots, hitting the turf, etc. causes it then it can be saved. We do not really know at this point.

Excellent post. If we can believe the evidence presented in the Front Line special, the problem is the former. I agree that with that being the case, football's days are numbered. Every time there is a head line as there was within the past week of a prominent player suffering debilitating effects of brain injury like Tony Dorsett losing his memory in his 50's, it turns more mothers against having their sons participate in this sport. Unfortunately the NFL and it's collegiate based minor league program are living in denial.

(11-13-2013 08:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think it will continue to drop until parents realize the head injury issue is not unique to football.

There is no evidence that it exists in any other sport. The only one worth questioning is soccer. Even if there is a
Robles in soccer, eliminating headers would be a way to reform soccer while still allowing the sport to continue. There is no way to reform football to eliminate brain injury and keep anything that would resemble the current sport.

(11-13-2013 07:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 06:19 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 05:43 PM)stever20 Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page...sal-factor

Just saw this. Pop Warner seen a 9.5% drop in participation the last 2 years. Have to think a primary reason of course are the head injuries. a lot of parents just aren't going to allow their kids to play football.

It will be interesting to see if these drops continue over the next 5-10 years. If so, how does that impact other sports- instead of an athlete going into football, do they go to baseball or basketball instead? How will that impact the entire dynamic of all sports.

This is the issue the football powers, both college and pro, need to address. The problem is they cannot say they have solved the brain trauma problem because they do not understand it yet.

If it turns out little, regular hits to the head during normal play cause brain trauma then football is finished. If only the big shots, hitting the turf, etc. causes it then it can be saved. We do not really know at this point.

I am certainly not claiming that what I'm about to say solves the head trauma issue, but it will certainly help. When I played chin straps were tightened to prevent the head from rattling around inside a loose fitting helmet. Proper technique was taught for applying a hit. We were taught never to dip our heads before an impact and preferably to strike the waist or slightly above or below it. We didn't grab ankles unless we were already too low to strike the waist. We never went head first for the knees and we didn't tackle high.

I think many injuries could be prevented if the players were required to strap that helmet on properly and tackle correctly. It certainly won't solve the whole problem but it would help. There is little excuse for so many helmets to fly off.

Head trauma is a part of soccer too. It will not be the panacea sport of choice. I guess if parents want their kids to be reasonably safe, yet well conditioned, tennis would be the choice. The truth is no sport is safe because life isn't safe. That's why none of us get out of it alive. I just don't want to see Big Brother telling us what we can do. Let me assume the risk and let me pay for it with my insurance so that the government can't sneak its claim upon my life through their programs.

I paid for football with a nasty case of heat exhaustion (bordering on heat stroke / yes I played when only sissy's needed water at practice) and a knee. I would play again if I had my life to live over (only I wouldn't take salt tablets and I would insist on water or a sports drink).

Bicycling, surfing, snowboarding, skiing, motocross, equestrian, volleyball and rodeo can be added among many other sports to those causing brain trauma.

You need to go to PBS.org and watch the Front Line special. Tightening chin straps has nothing to do with the brain injuries we are seeing. This is a totally different issue than any other risk of injury. It's not like chronic joint and back issues. Brain injury not only shortens lives, it completely robs a person of who he is, his very identity. To dismiss that as lightly as you have shows a lack of appreciation of the problem.

(11-13-2013 07:58 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 07:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 06:19 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 05:43 PM)stever20 Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page...sal-factor

Just saw this. Pop Warner seen a 9.5% drop in participation the last 2 years. Have to think a primary reason of course are the head injuries. a lot of parents just aren't going to allow their kids to play football.

It will be interesting to see if these drops continue over the next 5-10 years. If so, how does that impact other sports- instead of an athlete going into football, do they go to baseball or basketball instead? How will that impact the entire dynamic of all sports.

This is the issue the football powers, both college and pro, need to address. The problem is they cannot say they have solved the brain trauma problem because they do not understand it yet.

If it turns out little, regular hits to the head during normal play cause brain trauma then football is finished. If only the big shots, hitting the turf, etc. causes it then it can be saved. We do not really know at this point.

I am certainly not claiming that what I'm about to say solves the head trauma issue, but it will certainly help. When I played chin straps were tightened to prevent the head from rattling around inside a loose fitting helmet. Proper technique was taught for applying a hit. We were taught never to dip our heads before an impact and preferably to strike the waist or slightly above or below it. We didn't grab ankles unless we were already too low to strike the waist. We never went head first for the knees and we didn't tackle high.

I think many injuries could be prevented if the players were required to strap that helmet on properly and tackle correctly. It certainly won't solve the whole problem but it would help. There is little excuse for so many helmets to fly off.

Head trauma is a part of soccer too. It will not be the panacea sport of choice. I guess if parents want their kids to be reasonably safe, yet well conditioned, tennis would be the choice. The truth is no sport is safe because life isn't safe. That's why none of us get out of it alive. I just don't want to see Big Brother telling us what we can do. Let me assume the risk and let me pay for it with my insurance so that the government can't sneak its claim upon my life through their programs.

I paid for football with a nasty case of heat exhaustion (bordering on heat stroke / yes I played when only sissy's needed water at practice) and a knee. I would play again if I had my life to live over (only I wouldn't take salt tablets and I would insist on water or a sports drink).

Bicycling, surfing, snowboarding, skiing, motocross, equestrian, volleyball and rodeo can be added among many other sports to those causing brain trauma.

I played football with a kid for years, and he never got hurt playing football. Then one year playing soccer, he broke his collarbone, playing the "safe" sport.

You're talking apples and oranges. Anyone can survive a broken collar bone. There's no comparison of that to brain injury. There's also no way to know if your friend experienced brain injury. The effects are cumulative and not necessRily related to a single event or even several events The effects may not show up for decades.

BTW, I' not sure if soccer is a safe sport either.

(11-13-2013 09:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/99021...l-athletes

Reported H.S. Concussion Rates

Rates per 10,000 athletic exposures, as reported by athletic trainers, by sport:


Sport

Boys

Girls


Football 11.2 NA
Lacrosse 6.9 5.2
Soccer 4.2 6.7
Wrestling 6.2 NA
Basketball 2.8 5.6
Field Hockey NA 4.2
Softball NA 1.6
Baseball 1.2 NA

Source: National Academy of Sciences, Datalys Center (2010-

But the problem in football is far greater than diagnosed concussions.

(11-13-2013 09:44 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 08:24 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 08:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think it will continue to drop until parents realize the head injury issue is not unique to football.

It's not Unique to football, true. But does anyone honestly deny that head & spinal injuries are more common in football than (say) rowing, or basketball, or tennis, or baseball?

I don't think they are as common but any active and physical sport will have those injuries. The only safe sport is probably is probably golf.

Not true. Football is unique among team sports in causing brain injury, I.e chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE). The other two sports that should be studied are soccer and hockey. The only sport known to create the same brain injury as football is boxing.

(11-14-2013 03:31 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 08:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think it will continue to drop until parents realize the head injury issue is not unique to football.

There is no evidence that it exists in any other sport. The only one worth questioning is soccer. Even if there is a
Robles in soccer, eliminating headers would be a way to reform soccer while still allowing the sport to continue. There is no way to reform football to eliminate brain injury and keep anything that would resemble the current sport.

You obviously didn't read my link above. Girl's soccer has higher reported rates than college football. Girl's HS basketball is nearly as high.