(11-14-2013 01:26 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  I am very satisfied with the AAC's behavior and the final outcome. I only wish we could have given Pitt a major screwing.

If Pitt, SU, WVU, TCU, UL and Rutgers stay in the Big East, the American never comes into being and Memphis never gets an invite.

(11-14-2013 01:39 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 01:26 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  I am very satisfied with the AAC's behavior and the final outcome. I only wish we could have given Pitt a major screwing.

If Pitt, SU, WVU, TCU, UL and Rutgers stay in the Big East, the American never comes into being and Memphis never gets an invite.

Pitt's President led the Big East executive committee. Marinatto handed him a term sheet from ESPN that would have been about 11 Million per team annually.

http://dev.chuckoliver.net/2012/12/losin...to-an-end/
University of Pittsburg Chancellor Mark A. Nordenberg convincing Big East leadership to turn down a TV contract renewal and upgrade from ESPN mere months before his Panthers ditched the conference was especially galling to those inside the Big East who were steadfastly working to secure its place as a power conference. Nordenberg was promoting a belief inside the league that it could find a better deal than the one ESPN had offered. At the same he was orchestrating his school’s departure from the Big East for the ACC. Nordenberg realized if the Big East signed a new contract with ESPN it would be more difficult to extract his school from the league and any exit fee would likely be massively increased. He was quite literally a fox in the chicken coop.

Univ. of Louisville AD Tom Jurich said that the move by Pitt and Syracuse to join the ACC “caught many Big East members by surprise.” He added that Marinatto “learned about it through a reporter -- even though Pittsburgh chancellor Mark Nordenberg is chairman of the Big East’s executive committee.” Jurich: “I don’t think people saw that coming because you had a president that was leading the charge, a president of the executive committee that everybody entrusted” (Louisville COURIER-JOURNAL, 9/18). Jurich added the most recent moves were "kind of a shock to everybody” (ESPN.com, 9/18). Baylor AD Ian McCaw said, "No honor, no trust. I think there's really a lack of honor and a lack of trust throughout college athletics right now. It's very unhealthy" (CBSSPORTS.com, 9/18).

Louisville athletics director Tom Jurich was particularly critical of Nordenberg in comments to The (Louisville) Courier-Journal, saying he "was the keeping everybody together and asked everybody to be unified and I think everybody trusted him."
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...oUf3lPAG9k

Would you trust this man?


Nordenberg

(11-14-2013 02:12 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 01:39 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 01:26 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  I am very satisfied with the AAC's behavior and the final outcome. I only wish we could have given Pitt a major screwing.

If Pitt, SU, WVU, TCU, UL and Rutgers stay in the Big East, the American never comes into being and Memphis never gets an invite.

Pitt's President led the Big East executive committee. Marinatto handed him a term sheet from ESPN that would have been about 11 Million per team annually.

http://dev.chuckoliver.net/2012/12/losin...to-an-end/
University of Pittsburg Chancellor Mark A. Nordenberg convincing Big East leadership to turn down a TV contract renewal and upgrade from ESPN mere months before his Panthers ditched the conference was especially galling to those inside the Big East who were steadfastly working to secure its place as a power conference. Nordenberg was promoting a belief inside the league that it could find a better deal than the one ESPN had offered. At the same he was orchestrating his school’s departure from the Big East for the ACC. Nordenberg realized if the Big East signed a new contract with ESPN it would be more difficult to extract his school from the league and any exit fee would likely be massively increased. He was quite literally a fox in the chicken coop.

Univ. of Louisville AD Tom Jurich said that the move by Pitt and Syracuse to join the ACC “caught many Big East members by surprise.” He added that Marinatto “learned about it through a reporter -- even though Pittsburgh chancellor Mark Nordenberg is chairman of the Big East’s executive committee.” Jurich: “I don’t think people saw that coming because you had a president that was leading the charge, a president of the executive committee that everybody entrusted” (Louisville COURIER-JOURNAL, 9/18). Jurich added the most recent moves were "kind of a shock to everybody” (ESPN.com, 9/18). Baylor AD Ian McCaw said, "No honor, no trust. I think there's really a lack of honor and a lack of trust throughout college athletics right now. It's very unhealthy" (CBSSPORTS.com, 9/18).

Louisville athletics director Tom Jurich was particularly critical of Nordenberg in comments to The (Louisville) Courier-Journal, saying he "was the keeping everybody together and asked everybody to be unified and I think everybody trusted him."
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...oUf3lPAG9k

This has been discussed a long time ago and debunked. I'll not bother going through all of this again. We're talking about today while you want to spin this by bringing up something completely unrelated as a way to make this convo go off the rails. Nice try.

You started the thread so you have to answer for it Miko. No way Jurich makes critical comments of Nordenberg
willy nilly. Your Chancellor is a dirt bag.

(11-14-2013 02:28 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 02:12 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 01:39 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 01:26 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  I am very satisfied with the AAC's behavior and the final outcome. I only wish we could have given Pitt a major screwing.

If Pitt, SU, WVU, TCU, UL and Rutgers stay in the Big East, the American never comes into being and Memphis never gets an invite.

Pitt's President led the Big East executive committee. Marinatto handed him a term sheet from ESPN that would have been about 11 Million per team annually.

http://dev.chuckoliver.net/2012/12/losin...to-an-end/
University of Pittsburg Chancellor Mark A. Nordenberg convincing Big East leadership to turn down a TV contract renewal and upgrade from ESPN mere months before his Panthers ditched the conference was especially galling to those inside the Big East who were steadfastly working to secure its place as a power conference. Nordenberg was promoting a belief inside the league that it could find a better deal than the one ESPN had offered. At the same he was orchestrating his school’s departure from the Big East for the ACC. Nordenberg realized if the Big East signed a new contract with ESPN it would be more difficult to extract his school from the league and any exit fee would likely be massively increased. He was quite literally a fox in the chicken coop.

Univ. of Louisville AD Tom Jurich said that the move by Pitt and Syracuse to join the ACC “caught many Big East members by surprise.” He added that Marinatto “learned about it through a reporter -- even though Pittsburgh chancellor Mark Nordenberg is chairman of the Big East’s executive committee.” Jurich: “I don’t think people saw that coming because you had a president that was leading the charge, a president of the executive committee that everybody entrusted” (Louisville COURIER-JOURNAL, 9/18). Jurich added the most recent moves were "kind of a shock to everybody” (ESPN.com, 9/18). Baylor AD Ian McCaw said, "No honor, no trust. I think there's really a lack of honor and a lack of trust throughout college athletics right now. It's very unhealthy" (CBSSPORTS.com, 9/18).

Louisville athletics director Tom Jurich was particularly critical of Nordenberg in comments to The (Louisville) Courier-Journal, saying he "was the keeping everybody together and asked everybody to be unified and I think everybody trusted him."
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...oUf3lPAG9k

This has been discussed a long time ago and debunked. I'll not bother going through all of this again. We're talking about today while you want to spin this by bringing up something completely unrelated as a way to make this convo go off the rails. Nice try.

It was NOT debunked. I remember it being spun pretty heavily. I remember it not being as bad as was painted in the original accusation, but there is absolutely no denying Pitt's involvement with the breakup of the Big East being shady at BEST.

Now, I don't blame them for taking care of themselves. I'm just saying if you are going to bring up ethics, maybe you should take a look at your own school before throwing stones.

Nothing about this deal with UofL is unethical. No party involved in this feels that way. You are creating something out of nothing in order to flame on the incumbent schools again per usual.

Being ethical means you don't lie to your peers. I think most of the actors have been good actors.

I think TAMU, FSU and Louisville are examples of school presidents that never lied to their peers and forthrightly indicated their preferences.

In the first expansion of the ACC with Big East teams BC and Miami, all the Big East members knew for several years about the contacts between Miami, Syracuse, FSU, and NC State (Les Robinson, then NC State AD was part of that). The original contact was just about Miami, then it became larger and there were talks of some sort of merger, however, there were schools in the Big East that the ACC could not to UNC, Duke, UVa, and Maryland.

Anyway, VT's longstanding attempts to enter the ACC since the 1953 blackball were nothing new and everyone in the BE knew returning to our conference was VT's top goal. Just like FSU has never made it a secret that they have a strong SEC faction that if actively encouraged and blessed by Florida might have led them to change conferences.

Pitt's actions were questionable. Maryland's actions were questionable. Missouri's actions where questionable. Nebraska came right out and said they hated Texas. Colorado had been interested in the Pacific Conference twenty years earlier. TAMU said they would not go to the Pacific and that they were sick of Texas. West Virginia said they were desperate to stay at the B-5 level.

TCU and Boise State reneged on the BE.

Fair and Honest Major Expansion Actors Since 1990:

Penn State, Miami, VT, BC, SC, Arkansas, Nebraska, TAMU, Louisville, ND, WVa, Rutgers, Utah, Syracuse, P12, SEC, NBC

Questionable Major Actors:

TCU, Boise State, Mizzou, B10,

TCU and Boise reneged on the Big East. Mizzou shopped itself in public when it did not have to and the Big 10's dealing with Maryland look like bribery.

Probably Bad Actors:

Pitt, ACC, ESPN, FOX

Pitt's turnaround looks bad and there is no way to make that pig look better. The ACC knew it was in its best long term interest to hurt the Big East and they did, although the B10 helped at the end. ESPN and Fox supplied the money to grease the expansion wheels.

Bad Actors:

Maryland

Maryland seems to be the only actor to tell a bald face lie and get caught in that lie- others may have, but UM managed to stick itself in the process.

Dumb Actors:

Big East

There is not enough room to contain the comments regarding Big East mistakes.

B12

I don't if I should blame the B12 or blame Texas. Is there even a difference?

Good post lumber, and if I recall most if not all of the former CUSA programs into the Big East and
then into the AAC did it the right way. UC even agreed to schedule CUSA teams as part of their exit
out of CUSA back in 03'-05, announcement to entry.

(11-14-2013 02:59 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 02:28 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 02:12 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 01:39 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 01:26 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  I am very satisfied with the AAC's behavior and the final outcome. I only wish we could have given Pitt a major screwing.

If Pitt, SU, WVU, TCU, UL and Rutgers stay in the Big East, the American never comes into being and Memphis never gets an invite.

Pitt's President led the Big East executive committee. Marinatto handed him a term sheet from ESPN that would have been about 11 Million per team annually.

http://dev.chuckoliver.net/2012/12/losin...to-an-end/
University of Pittsburg Chancellor Mark A. Nordenberg convincing Big East leadership to turn down a TV contract renewal and upgrade from ESPN mere months before his Panthers ditched the conference was especially galling to those inside the Big East who were steadfastly working to secure its place as a power conference. Nordenberg was promoting a belief inside the league that it could find a better deal than the one ESPN had offered. At the same he was orchestrating his school’s departure from the Big East for the ACC. Nordenberg realized if the Big East signed a new contract with ESPN it would be more difficult to extract his school from the league and any exit fee would likely be massively increased. He was quite literally a fox in the chicken coop.

Univ. of Louisville AD Tom Jurich said that the move by Pitt and Syracuse to join the ACC “caught many Big East members by surprise.” He added that Marinatto “learned about it through a reporter -- even though Pittsburgh chancellor Mark Nordenberg is chairman of the Big East’s executive committee.” Jurich: “I don’t think people saw that coming because you had a president that was leading the charge, a president of the executive committee that everybody entrusted” (Louisville COURIER-JOURNAL, 9/18). Jurich added the most recent moves were "kind of a shock to everybody” (ESPN.com, 9/18). Baylor AD Ian McCaw said, "No honor, no trust. I think there's really a lack of honor and a lack of trust throughout college athletics right now. It's very unhealthy" (CBSSPORTS.com, 9/18).

Louisville athletics director Tom Jurich was particularly critical of Nordenberg in comments to The (Louisville) Courier-Journal, saying he "was the keeping everybody together and asked everybody to be unified and I think everybody trusted him."
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...oUf3lPAG9k

This has been discussed a long time ago and debunked. I'll not bother going through all of this again. We're talking about today while you want to spin this by bringing up something completely unrelated as a way to make this convo go off the rails. Nice try.

It was NOT debunked. I remember it being spun pretty heavily. I remember it not being as bad as was painted in the original accusation, but there is absolutely no denying Pitt's involvement with the breakup of the Big East being shady at BEST.

Now, I don't blame them for taking care of themselves. I'm just saying if you are going to bring up ethics, maybe you should take a look at your own school before throwing stones.

Nothing about this deal with UofL is unethical. No party involved in this feels that way. You are creating something out of nothing in order to flame on the incumbent schools again per usual.

It doesn't matter if you believe that or not. I know that Pitt, SU and WVU have done everything they could to make the departures as smooth as possible and with a minimum of fanfare. In fact, Pitt paid above and beyond the $5mil as a show of good will. Plus Pitt is open to scheduling future OOC matchups if the circumstances are right.

(11-14-2013 04:36 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 02:59 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 02:28 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 02:12 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 01:39 PM)miko33 Wrote:  If Pitt, SU, WVU, TCU, UL and Rutgers stay in the Big East, the American never comes into being and Memphis never gets an invite.

Pitt's President led the Big East executive committee. Marinatto handed him a term sheet from ESPN that would have been about 11 Million per team annually.

http://dev.chuckoliver.net/2012/12/losin...to-an-end/
University of Pittsburg Chancellor Mark A. Nordenberg convincing Big East leadership to turn down a TV contract renewal and upgrade from ESPN mere months before his Panthers ditched the conference was especially galling to those inside the Big East who were steadfastly working to secure its place as a power conference. Nordenberg was promoting a belief inside the league that it could find a better deal than the one ESPN had offered. At the same he was orchestrating his school’s departure from the Big East for the ACC. Nordenberg realized if the Big East signed a new contract with ESPN it would be more difficult to extract his school from the league and any exit fee would likely be massively increased. He was quite literally a fox in the chicken coop.

Univ. of Louisville AD Tom Jurich said that the move by Pitt and Syracuse to join the ACC “caught many Big East members by surprise.” He added that Marinatto “learned about it through a reporter -- even though Pittsburgh chancellor Mark Nordenberg is chairman of the Big East’s executive committee.” Jurich: “I don’t think people saw that coming because you had a president that was leading the charge, a president of the executive committee that everybody entrusted” (Louisville COURIER-JOURNAL, 9/18). Jurich added the most recent moves were "kind of a shock to everybody” (ESPN.com, 9/18). Baylor AD Ian McCaw said, "No honor, no trust. I think there's really a lack of honor and a lack of trust throughout college athletics right now. It's very unhealthy" (CBSSPORTS.com, 9/18).

Louisville athletics director Tom Jurich was particularly critical of Nordenberg in comments to The (Louisville) Courier-Journal, saying he "was the keeping everybody together and asked everybody to be unified and I think everybody trusted him."
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...oUf3lPAG9k

This has been discussed a long time ago and debunked. I'll not bother going through all of this again. We're talking about today while you want to spin this by bringing up something completely unrelated as a way to make this convo go off the rails. Nice try.

It was NOT debunked. I remember it being spun pretty heavily. I remember it not being as bad as was painted in the original accusation, but there is absolutely no denying Pitt's involvement with the breakup of the Big East being shady at BEST.

Now, I don't blame them for taking care of themselves. I'm just saying if you are going to bring up ethics, maybe you should take a look at your own school before throwing stones.

Nothing about this deal with UofL is unethical. No party involved in this feels that way. You are creating something out of nothing in order to flame on the incumbent schools again per usual.

It doesn't matter if you believe that or not. I know that Pitt, SU and WVU have done everything they could to make the departures as smooth as possible and with a minimum of fanfare. In fact, Pitt paid above and beyond the $5mil as a show of good will. Plus Pitt is open to scheduling future OOC matchups if the circumstances are right.

As you say, you can believe whatever you like. Its clearly revisionist history. Pitt & SU paid above the $5 mil exit fee because they failed to give 27 month notice per BE bylaws, not as a 'show of goodwill'. That's laughable.

WVU? They sued the hell out of the big east and made a big deal out of their departure. Once again, I understand they had to get out to immediately enter the Big 12, but their departure was far from a 'minimum of fanfare' as you say.

C'mon Man!

1. Nordenberg was one of the parties who did not want to re-sign with ESPN but that seemed like the prudent thing to do. Most people on these very boards agreed with that position and didn't even know it. The sentiment on here when the Big East was negotiating the new contract on the open market was that they were going to get more money. Some people even though they would get close to ACC money. If that was your position then, how can you blame Nordenberg for opposing re-upping with ESPN? It was a move to get the Big East on the open market and not tied to ESPN and I think that was pretty well received and the right move. Blaming Nordenberg for being one of the parties to turn ESPN down is nonsense and just something people try to spin against him.

2. I do not believe Nordenberg was the chairman of the Big East executive committee at the time these contracts were negotiated and Pitt decided it was leaving. He was a recent former chairman, though. I think Jurich was just mistaken.

3. Pitt paid extra money to leave the Big East earlier than 27 months. They did not leave immediately as WVU did. They at least had the decency to stay an extra year.

4. Nothing in this post is meant to say that there weren't things Pitt did that weren't above board. I don't know if Nordenberg lied to anybody. I'm not privy to that information. The facts I have put forth above, though, are accurate and are common misconceptions on this board.

I don't like seeing injustice in the world. When I read about how Marinatto and Genshaft did not want to have UL's notice put in writing, it ended seeing the American conference take advantage of the good will extended to it by not putting the notice in writing. It just seems deceitful and shameful.

(11-14-2013 10:07 PM)miko33 Wrote:  I don't like seeing injustice in the world. When I read about how Marinatto and Genshaft did not want to have UL's notice put in writing, it ended seeing the American conference take advantage of the good will extended to it by not putting the notice in writing. It just seems deceitful and shameful.

(11-14-2013 04:36 PM)miko33 Wrote:  It doesn't matter if you believe that or not. I know that Pitt, SU and WVU have done everything they could to make the departures as smooth as possible and with a minimum of fanfare.

What? Is this serious? WVU? Oh my. Syracuse and Pitt did make the process of their departure easier, but the method of departure was not. In contrast WVU's process of departure was a trainwreck, but their method of departure was up front and honest.

(11-14-2013 07:25 PM)ndlutz Wrote:  1. Nordenberg was one of the parties who did not want to re-sign with ESPN but that seemed like the prudent thing to do. Most people on these very boards agreed with that position and didn't even know it. The sentiment on here when the Big East was negotiating the new contract on the open market was that they were going to get more money. Some people even though they would get close to ACC money. If that was your position then, how can you blame Nordenberg for opposing re-upping with ESPN?

The issue was not that Nordenberg lead people against signing the agreement. The issue was he later used NOT signing with ESPN as the catalyst for Pitt leaving. THAT was/is the issue. Similarly, he did the same thing on a few other issues.

(11-14-2013 10:07 PM)miko33 Wrote:  I don't like seeing injustice in the world. When I read about how Marinatto and Genshaft did not want to have UL's notice put in writing, it ended seeing the American conference take advantage of the good will extended to it by not putting the notice in writing. It just seems deceitful and shameful.

Miko, if Louisville thought they were being shafted they never would have signed the agreement. They did withdraw. However they also signed a new agreement calling for a $10 million exit fee and a promise to stay two years, with a 50% penalty for leaving early. That is where the exit fee comes from. Since they left after year 1, they would have paid $15 million as per the agreement signed. Instead they are paying $11 million. Hence the $4 million savings.

I don't get this thread. Nobody screwed anybody: L'Ville left it a fair, open way, and the AAC was fairly compensated. Story out of nothing.

(11-15-2013 01:37 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 04:36 PM)miko33 Wrote:  It doesn't matter if you believe that or not. I know that Pitt, SU and WVU have done everything they could to make the departures as smooth as possible and with a minimum of fanfare.

What? Is this serious? WVU? Oh my. Syracuse and Pitt did make the process of their departure easier, but the method of departure was not. In contrast WVU's process of departure was a trainwreck, but their method of departure was up front and honest.

(11-14-2013 07:25 PM)ndlutz Wrote:  1. Nordenberg was one of the parties who did not want to re-sign with ESPN but that seemed like the prudent thing to do. Most people on these very boards agreed with that position and didn't even know it. The sentiment on here when the Big East was negotiating the new contract on the open market was that they were going to get more money. Some people even though they would get close to ACC money. If that was your position then, how can you blame Nordenberg for opposing re-upping with ESPN?

The issue was not that Nordenberg lead people against signing the agreement. The issue was he later used NOT signing with ESPN as the catalyst for Pitt leaving. THAT was/is the issue. Similarly, he did the same thing on a few other issues.

I do not recall Nordenberg ever speaking about why Pitt left the Big East. He talked about why Pitt joined the ACC at length.

I do not believe a quote exists with him using the refusal of ESPN's contract as a reason for leaving the conference. I don't even recall him giving reasons for leaving except that the ACC was a great opportunity for Pitt. He also didn't have to.

(11-14-2013 02:14 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Would you trust this man?


Nordenberg

is that a pic of Miko cause that guy looks like the low of the low

(11-14-2013 07:34 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Problem was probably Lawyers. They don't recognize verbal agreements as binding. IE They don't get paid.

Well, the old Big East bylaws specify that withdrawal has to be in writing. Which is smart, because Jones can claim a verbal agreement, which Smith says he didn't agree to, and then you've got nothing.

11.02.a.i "The member must provide to the Commissioner, with a copy to each of the other Members, a written notice of withdrawal...."

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets...Bylaws.pdf

and a bit later, the language about if the conference loses AQ status, the exit fee drops back to $5M. (This language was probably changed in September-Nov 2012.) http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/11/07/62741.htm

I can't see what Jurich is saying as anything but complete and total bullcrap. He didn't pre-withdraw in any sense at all. I doubt that Rutgers is going end up paying any more than $11M, so he isn't saving UL any money.

On the other hand, Louisville will get their Big East/American Athletic Conference distribution this year, minus the balance of the exit fee, while Rutgers might have to get theirs years later when the court case is done.

Again...it doesn't matter...we are now completely clean...in good standing with our current conference...recruiting is going well in Football and Basketball...Top 20 Football Team....Top 10 Women Basketball Team...Top 3 Men's Basketball Team and the Defending Champions with the ACC going forward.

The $11 Million is just a price that will be more then made up for going forward....