(11-20-2013 02:49 PM)emu steve Wrote:  But the difference between D-II and FBS is huge.

Harkema seemed to bridge the gap pretty well. And Kelly.

(11-21-2013 07:30 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(11-20-2013 02:49 PM)emu steve Wrote:  But the difference between D-II and FBS is huge.

Harkema seemed to bridge the gap pretty well. And Kelly.

True, but Kelly's are FEW AND FAR BETWEEN.

He is the exception to the rule. Just because one does something doesn't mean the other 9 or 19 or 29 can.

In the most basic research course that would be considered 'anecdotal' evidence and anyone can prove anything with an anecdote.

From Wikipedia:

"The expression anecdotal evidence refers to evidence from anecdotes. Because of the small sample, there is a larger chance that it may be unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise non-representative samples of typical cases.[1][2] Anecdotal evidence is considered dubious support of a claim; it is accepted only in lieu of more solid evidence. This is true regardless of the veracity of individual claims.[3][4][5]" (emphasis mine).

In my first research course we read a paper entitled: "Can N=1?"

And it dealt with this issue: What does a case study (N=1, a one person 'study') demonstrate?

Bottom line: N=1 is nice for generating hypotheses for more rigorous study.

A case study or anecdote is often used, incorrectly in scientific terms, not to further research but to 'win arguments'.

We see those on television all the time, someone who benefited and someone who were hurt by a particular piece of legislation, e.g., the current ACA debate.

(11-21-2013 07:30 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(11-20-2013 02:49 PM)emu steve Wrote:  But the difference between D-II and FBS is huge.

Harkema seemed to bridge the gap pretty well. And Kelly.

Do we know if there is another Kelly out there and whom might he be?

When Kelly was hired by CMU we was considered without peer in D-II football.

Is there any such coach out there today in D-II land?

I have NO idea who is the best D-II coach and maybe there isn't one. Could be a number of very good ones but none who 'walk on water'.

N (Harkema) = 1 in Eastern's case - last time you gave the keys to a guy - from D-II no less - who had successful experience rebuilding Football programs. And it worked.

Of course you can continue following Einstein's definition of insanity and hire another BCS assistant,

(11-21-2013 09:17 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  N (Harkema) = 1 in Eastern's case - last time you gave the keys to a guy - from D-II no less - who had successful experience rebuilding Football programs. And it worked.

Of course you can continue following Einstein's definition of insanity and hire another BCS assistant,

Actually you fell into my trap :

The choice is not a dichotomy, i.e., BCS assistant vs. D-II HC.

I actual prefer a former FBS HC, esp. a former MAC HC:

My 'favorites' are Turner Gill, Mike Haywood, (maybe) Cubit, Tim Beckman (if he gets fired at Illinois), Pellini (if he gets fired at Nebraska), etc. etc.

Can anyone say "Gill, Haywood, Cubit, Beckman, etc. don't know how to win in the MAC?" They have met my criterion (led their MAC team to bowl(s) games".

I also would seriously consider a FCS HC.

So you prefer somebody on the way down, on the back end of their career, to an "up and comer."

Got it.

(11-21-2013 10:00 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  So you prefer somebody on the way down, on the back end of their career, to an "up and comer."

Got it.

I don't consider Gill, Haywood, Cubit, Beckman (if fired), Pellini (if fired), on the way down...

What might be a better and MORE RELEVANT to EMU, is that some coaches, perhaps with bad counsel, took jobs which are notoriously hard to win at.

Kansas is an example, Illinois hasn't been winning in years, etc.

Gill was able to win at UB which when he took over there was the probably the worst team in FBS.

Haywood is a very unusual situation. He was a coach on the way up big time, I'd think, before he got derailed.

I prefer a D-II coach, unless someone like Kelly, go to FCS and win there.

There are plenty of opportunities at say the Missouri Valley Conference where a number of teams could compete favorably with most MAC teams.

I have NO problem with a very talented FCS HC.

(11-21-2013 10:00 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  So you prefer somebody on the way down, on the back end of their career, to an "up and comer."

Got it.

I wish you were an EMU fan! We need you here!

(11-21-2013 09:17 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  N (Harkema) = 1 in Eastern's case - last time you gave the keys to a guy - from D-II no less - who had successful experience rebuilding Football programs. And it worked.

Of course you can continue following Einstein's definition of insanity and hire another BCS assistant,

Our esteemed emu steve has zero tolerance for what Ron English did! (swearing at his players, grown men) presumably because he did not win enough, but is ready and willing to give Mike Haywood a "second chance" because all he did was assault a woman. I find this absolutely laughable. If you do not condone bad behavior, it has to be across the board, not based on winning %.

Dear steve,
I don't like your first three mentions. I heard Gill is very religious, and very happy at Liberty, but beyond that he didn't have wonderful records at Buffalo and Kansas. Haywood, one good season at Miami. Whether he was or not a woman beater, why do we want that kind of publicity? Cubit was okay at Western, but they never won a championship and lost all their bowl games under his leadership. He's also getting long in the tooth, as the saying goes, and if you consider him, then why not Banaszak?
This is all anecdotal, except for the records of the previous mentioned coaches, and I think Eastern could do better. I along with Bob Wickersham, have to agree with MajorHoople on this one.

(11-21-2013 11:06 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear steve,
I don't like your first three mentions. I heard Gill is very religious, and very happy at Liberty, but beyond that he didn't have wonderful records at Buffalo and Kansas. Haywood, one good season at Miami. Whether he was or not a woman beater, why do we want that kind of publicity? Cubit was okay at Western, but they never won a championship and lost all their bowl games under his leadership. He's also getting long in the tooth, as the saying goes, and if you consider him, then why not Banaszak?
This is all anecdotal, except for the records of the previous mentioned coaches, and I think Eastern could do better. I along with Bob Wickersham, have to agree with MajorHoople on this one.

I'm feeling ganged up on.

IF Alabama loses the National Championship I want Nick Saban.

It fits my mold of picking coaches on the way down.

(11-21-2013 09:29 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 09:17 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  N (Harkema) = 1 in Eastern's case - last time you gave the keys to a guy - from D-II no less - who had successful experience rebuilding Football programs. And it worked.

Of course you can continue following Einstein's definition of insanity and hire another BCS assistant,

Actually you fell into my trap :

The choice is not a dichotomy, i.e., BCS assistant vs. D-II HC.

I actual prefer a former FBS HC, esp. a former MAC HC:

My 'favorites' are Turner Gill, Mike Haywood, (maybe) Cubit, Tim Beckman (if he gets fired at Illinois), Pellini (if he gets fired at Nebraska), etc. etc.

Can anyone say "Gill, Haywood, Cubit, Beckman, etc. don't know how to win in the MAC?" They have met my criterion (led their MAC team to bowl(s) games".

I also would seriously consider a FCS HC.

There are going to be a lot of upset people in here I honestly don't think anyone on your list (except maybe Heywood) would take the job if offered it.

(11-21-2013 11:04 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 09:17 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  N (Harkema) = 1 in Eastern's case - last time you gave the keys to a guy - from D-II no less - who had successful experience rebuilding Football programs. And it worked.

Of course you can continue following Einstein's definition of insanity and hire another BCS assistant,

Our esteemed emu steve has zero tolerance for what Ron English did! (swearing at his players, grown men) presumably because he did not win enough, but is ready and willing to give Mike Haywood a "second chance" because all he did was assault a woman. I find this absolutely laughable. If you do not condone bad behavior, it has to be across the board, not based on winning %.

I've never seen someone defend an awful coach as much as you have with English. You act as if the only reason he got fired was because of that tape when you know damn well he would still be here if the team were successful, or even just competitive (I agree that Lyke should've included his past performance in her press release). If that was the straw that broke the camels back, then oh well. He was a goner anyways because he did a terrible job here, save for one outlier year with a gift of a schedule and Genyk's players as seniors. He sucked. There is no arguing or defending that.

There is no defending what Haywood (allegedly) did either, but I'd gladly give him a chance to redeem himself since, you know, he actually succeeded in the MAC. Plus, he's interested in the job...I can't imagine many other candidates are. That's a big thing.

(11-21-2013 11:25 AM)fbgab Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 09:29 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 09:17 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  N (Harkema) = 1 in Eastern's case - last time you gave the keys to a guy - from D-II no less - who had successful experience rebuilding Football programs. And it worked.

Of course you can continue following Einstein's definition of insanity and hire another BCS assistant,

Actually you fell into my trap :

The choice is not a dichotomy, i.e., BCS assistant vs. D-II HC.

I actual prefer a former FBS HC, esp. a former MAC HC:

My 'favorites' are Turner Gill, Mike Haywood, (maybe) Cubit, Tim Beckman (if he gets fired at Illinois), Pellini (if he gets fired at Nebraska), etc. etc.

Can anyone say "Gill, Haywood, Cubit, Beckman, etc. don't know how to win in the MAC?" They have met my criterion (led their MAC team to bowl(s) games".

I also would seriously consider a FCS HC.

There are going to be a lot of upset people in here I honestly don't think anyone on your list (except maybe Heywood) would take the job if offered it.

Not many of us do either, but thank you for the reminder.

(11-21-2013 11:30 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 11:04 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(11-21-2013 09:17 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  N (Harkema) = 1 in Eastern's case - last time you gave the keys to a guy - from D-II no less - who had successful experience rebuilding Football programs. And it worked.

Of course you can continue following Einstein's definition of insanity and hire another BCS assistant,

Our esteemed emu steve has zero tolerance for what Ron English did! (swearing at his players, grown men) presumably because he did not win enough, but is ready and willing to give Mike Haywood a "second chance" because all he did was assault a woman. I find this absolutely laughable. If you do not condone bad behavior, it has to be across the board, not based on winning %.

I've never seen someone defend an awful coach as much as you have with English. You act as if the only reason he got fired was because of that tape when you know damn well he would still be here if the team were successful, or even just competitive (I agree that Lyke should've included his past performance in her press release). If that was the straw that broke the camels back, then oh well. He was a goner anyways because he did a terrible job here, save for one outlier year with a gift of a schedule and Genyk's players as seniors. He sucked. There is no arguing or defending that.

There is no defending what Haywood (allegedly) did either, but I'd gladly give him a chance to redeem himself since, you know, he actually succeeded in the MAC. Plus, he's interested in the job...I can't imagine many other candidates are. That's a big thing.

I am not DEFENDING English. He did a bad job and SHOULD get fired based on performance BUT to crucify him for his actions and then give a free pass to a guy (Haywood) who did something FAR WORSE, because he was more successful (although he's never built a program) is the definition of HYPOCRISY.

In the battle between Michigan D-II schools:

GVSU 40

SVSU 7

At one point it was GVSU 26 - 0.