(11-11-2013 10:07 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 08:00 AM)CHIPPEWA ENEMA Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 09:37 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  NIU fans acting like CMU fans during the LeFevoure years. Too good for the MAC. If I had a dollar every time the latest MAC champs fans thought they are better than the MAC, I'd be retired.

Maybe we should have left NIU in the Big West after their last over-inflated ego problem.

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=659...pid9985667

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Just for the sake of supposition, I would like to see one text where a CMU fan said we were too good for the MAC (during LeFevour or non LeFevour years).

That might have been the Temple (not CMU) fans...how are they doing these days?

They got their annual win so they're cocky as ever.

It's absurb to lump Miami in with other programs that are not making efforts to improve and commit resources to DI sports. We just had an incredibly lousy football coach that destroyed our program. If you compare notes on resourcing (budget) and facility improvements, Miami is right up there in the upper tier of the MAC.

In the last decade or so Miami has: completely renovated Yager Stadium with new Field turf, new away and endzone stands, and new Cradle of Coach's plaza along with new jumbrotron. Funding is being finalized to build an IPF, so we're perhaps behind a few of the other MAC schools here. We already had a great strength and conditioning facility located right next to the stadium.

We have built new baseball and softball stadiums thanks for generous donations from alums.

We built a $32MM "state of the art" hockey arena...arguabaly one of the top 5 in all of college hockey.

Our only downfall in improvements is Millet Hall, our multi-purpose hoops and convocation area. There are plans in place to upgrade as we speak.


Now, other schools have done some great things no doubt....notably BSU, BGSU, WMU, NIU, CMU Kent, OU off the top of my head. Very few schools have not been doing a good job of improving facilities given the limited resources of each State university.

Same old cycle. I def remember NIU being lumped in with teams that needed to be kicked out back during their two winless seasons. And Kent State was a perennial whipping boy, until last year of course. In the impatience of our age, EMU hasn't had their turn to have solid leadership for too long, so the bashers will continue to bash. But I'm a Pittsburgh Pirates fan, so I know you can be bad for a very long time then all it takes is winning to turn things around.

(11-10-2013 09:37 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  NIU fans acting like CMU fans during the LeFevoure years. Too good for the MAC. If I had a dollar every time the latest MAC champs fans thought they are better than the MAC, I'd be retired.

Maybe we should have left NIU in the Big West after their last over-inflated ego problem.

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=659...pid9985667

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There is basically one NIU poster doing this, and I believe he is just a kid.

(11-11-2013 10:27 AM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  It's absurb to lump Miami in with other programs that are not making efforts to improve and commit resources to DI sports. We just had an incredibly lousy football coach that destroyed our program. If you compare notes on resourcing (budget) and facility improvements, Miami is right up there in the upper tier of the MAC.

In the last decade or so Miami has: completely renovated Yager Stadium with new Field turf, new away and endzone stands, and new Cradle of Coach's plaza along with new jumbrotron. Funding is being finalized to build an IPF, so we're perhaps behind a few of the other MAC schools here. We already had a great strength and conditioning facility located right next to the stadium.

We have built new baseball and softball stadiums thanks for generous donations from alums.

We built a $32MM "state of the art" hockey arena...arguabaly one of the top 5 in all of college hockey.

Our only downfall in improvements is Millet Hall, our multi-purpose hoops and convocation area. There are plans in place to upgrade as we speak.


Now, other schools have done some great things no doubt....notably BSU, BGSU, WMU, NIU, CMU Kent, OU off the top of my head. Very few schools have not been doing a good job of improving facilities given the limited resources of each State university.

Agreed. However, I will concede that if Brad Bates were still in charge, I would have little to no confidence in our ability to rise up in the MAC.

Interestingly, it was DUE TO THE STRENGTH OF THE MAC last year that enabled NIU to be the first one-loss non-AQ school ever to make the BCS.

(11-11-2013 10:27 AM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  It's absurb to lump Miami in with other programs that are not making efforts to improve and commit resources to DI sports. We just had an incredibly lousy football coach that destroyed our program. If you compare notes on resourcing (budget) and facility improvements, Miami is right up there in the upper tier of the MAC.

In the last decade or so Miami has: completely renovated Yager Stadium with new Field turf, new away and endzone stands, and new Cradle of Coach's plaza along with new jumbrotron. Funding is being finalized to build an IPF, so we're perhaps behind a few of the other MAC schools here. We already had a great strength and conditioning facility located right next to the stadium.

We have built new baseball and softball stadiums thanks for generous donations from alums.

We built a $32MM "state of the art" hockey arena...arguabaly one of the top 5 in all of college hockey.

Our only downfall in improvements is Millet Hall, our multi-purpose hoops and convocation area. There are plans in place to upgrade as we speak.


Now, other schools have done some great things no doubt....notably BSU, BGSU, WMU, NIU, CMU Kent, OU off the top of my head. Very few schools have not been doing a good job of improving facilities given the limited resources of each State university.

I would have had more tiers than Dr Torch had. I think he was going more for acceptable/unacceptable. If you are looking into it more I think I would argue Miami is in the tier ahead of BG who is in a tier ahead of Ypsilanti Community College.

(11-11-2013 11:29 AM)Okie Chippewa Wrote:  Interestingly, it was DUE TO THE STRENGTH OF THE MAC last year that enabled NIU to be the first one-loss non-AQ school ever to make the BCS.

+1

Well... I wouldn't be mad if another conference came a callin. I like the MAC (and winning it three years in a row) but is it wrong to strive for greater things in this world?

The only move that would ever make sense is the Big 12 but that's years down the line if it ever comes at all. The MW isn't anything special. The AAC isn't either. The one big advantage those schools have- a much better TV contract. The MAC needs to get their **** together when it comes to that. More money is better for every team in the conference.

Starting next year, everyone will be vying for the access bowl spot. With smart scheduling, like Frazier is doing scheduling common opponents in the MW, NIU will have just as good of a shot getting that bid than anyother MW or AAC team.

I love you MAC but I wouldn't be heartbroken to leave you. Just get me more TV money please

I think with all the conference shuffling going on and seeing so many teams move around other schools and their fans have hopes of some day moving up. I'm sure if we go onto every MAC team's forum you will see their fans discussing moving to another conference at one point or another.

Either way, i enjoy the MAC, as do many others.

And yes, we do suck in hoops and need to get better. I don't think you will find any NIU fan who will say we don't.

Exactly what is making a commitment?

BG has had an indoor practice facility for years. In the past 10 years, the Sebo Center and Stroh Center were built. BG has / is currently renovating the Ice Arena, while still contemplating building a new one. The soccer, softball and baseball stadiums have been updated. Renovating the Doyt was announced last year. BG's new AD Chris Kingston has already stated they will be raising the athletic department operating budget.

Clawson was given a contract extension making him the MAC's 4th highest paid coach. Mike Elko was also given a large raise after Marshall tried to bring him in as their defensive coordinator this summer.

BG basketball has been a mess the past few years. From everything I've been told Orr would have been gone if Christopher didn't have 1 foot out the door to Xavier last year.

Carol Cartwright tried to submarine the hockey program among other things. But, since Dr. Mazey has taken over she has been 100% behind athletics.

It's fair to question fan support at certain schools. I question BG's myself.

I just don't know what some people want out of certain schools. Why does DrTorch think BG doesn't have a commitment to athletics? I don't mean that sarcastically.

(11-11-2013 11:29 AM)Okie Chippewa Wrote:  Interestingly, it was DUE TO THE STRENGTH OF THE MAC last year that enabled NIU to be the first one-loss non-AQ school ever to make the BCS.

Now, now, quit letting facts disrupt a good argument.

(11-11-2013 01:00 PM)bullsnotbills Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 11:29 AM)Okie Chippewa Wrote:  Interestingly, it was DUE TO THE STRENGTH OF THE MAC last year that enabled NIU to be the first one-loss non-AQ school ever to make the BCS.

Now, now, quit letting facts disrupt a good argument.

NIU got extremely lucky last season with things beyond their control when something like seven teams lost in the last week to make the Orange Bowl a possibility. Otherwise that never happens. Luck played just as big a role. And I posted last season when the MAC was riding its wave that none of this matters if the league sinks back down again next season. And guess what, the league is down and back to the norm. You can't base an argument on one season, and arguably the best season the MAC has ever had and classify that as the norm. One season doesn't define a league. The MAC had its window to move up the chain and didn't capitalize and this season has regressed back to the norm.

Wow, I didn't see this thread until today and there are already 6 pages.

I think anybody that has followed the MAC a long time or even just perused the listing of conference champs can see that teams come and go. Sometimes they just win once, or they might win 3 times in a row.

In the immortal words of Ralph Kramden, be nice to the people you meet on the way up, because you'll meet the same people on the way down.

I mean, look at Ball State, Buffalo, Bowling Green - they're all better than they were a couple years ago - much better. Akron is on the right track I think.

Things change in a hurry.

(11-11-2013 02:03 AM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 01:55 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Why is an NIU fan arguing what all MAC fans argue against come bowl season? We were underdogs in all 7 bowl games, and won 2. So actually how bad are we? Our 6th and 7th best teams won their games. Sounds like a deep conference to me.

But wait, I thought we were the highest rated G5 conference? Did I not read that post correctly? Doesn't seem like that to me when our #2 - 5 teams got smoked by other G5 teams last post season. Our only two wins were against the Sun Belt, so I guess we should be ranked just ahead of them then.

You read it wrong.

MAC 1 played ACC 1. MAC 2 played SBC 1. MAC 3 played CUSA 2. MAC 4 played WAC 1 MAC 5 played WAC 2. MAC 6 played SBC 3. MAC 7 played SBC 4/5.

Our losing did not determine how good we were. We were outmatched in every game, and actually did better than projected due to our worst bowl teams still winning.

(11-11-2013 01:23 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 01:00 PM)bullsnotbills Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 11:29 AM)Okie Chippewa Wrote:  Interestingly, it was DUE TO THE STRENGTH OF THE MAC last year that enabled NIU to be the first one-loss non-AQ school ever to make the BCS.

Now, now, quit letting facts disrupt a good argument.

NIU got extremely lucky last season with things beyond their control when something like seven teams lost in the last week to make the Orange Bowl a possibility. Otherwise that never happens. Luck played just as big a role. And I posted last season when the MAC was riding its wave that none of this matters if the league sinks back down again next season. And guess what, the league is down and back to the norm. You can't base an argument on one season, and arguably the best season the MAC has ever had and classify that as the norm. One season doesn't define a league. The MAC had its window to move up the chain and didn't capitalize and this season has regressed back to the norm.

No way last season was the best in MAC history. There was no "MAC Attack Saturday" last year, just a bunch of unconnected OOC victories that no one really began to notice until the end of the year. Many of those victories came against teams that did not go on to be bowl eligible.

Nothing compares to the success -- both in football and in basketball -- experienced by the MAC in the late 1990s/early 2000s. The MAC was the only mid-major conference to have two teams ranked in the top 25 at the end of the season in 2003. The MAC had a team ranked in the final polls every year between 2001 and 2003 (Marshall finished #10 in 1999, and Toledo blew its national ranking in 2000 when the Cardinals upset the Chester Taylor-led Rockets in Muncie that year). The league was constantly involved in Heisman talk, from Pennington to Taylor to Big Ben to Leftwich.

The MAC routinely got two bids in basketball and had high profile mid-major programs in EMU, Miami and Ball State scoring upsets every year. Kent State went to an Elite Eight in 2001. Ball State had the impressive Maui victories that same season. Everyone remembers the Sweet Sixteen runs by MAC schools in the 1990s.

The real issue is that the MAC experienced a severe drought in both sports between 2004-08. That's a long time to fall off the national radar. (The Ball State run in 2008 doesn't count as a positive, because it ended in a PR disaster with Hoke leaving and the MAC and BSU failing to handle the Boise State bowl game offer properly.) One could argue that this four-year disaster was the but-for cause of 10+ win Miami and Northern teams finding themselves left out of the final polls in 2010 and 2011.

Last year we began digging out of the s---storm that was 2004-08. But we have not yet returned to late 1990s/early 2000s form, despite noteworthy investments in facilities and personnel.

(11-11-2013 02:52 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 02:03 AM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

(11-11-2013 01:55 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Why is an NIU fan arguing what all MAC fans argue against come bowl season? We were underdogs in all 7 bowl games, and won 2. So actually how bad are we? Our 6th and 7th best teams won their games. Sounds like a deep conference to me.

But wait, I thought we were the highest rated G5 conference? Did I not read that post correctly? Doesn't seem like that to me when our #2 - 5 teams got smoked by other G5 teams last post season. Our only two wins were against the Sun Belt, so I guess we should be ranked just ahead of them then.

You read it wrong.

MAC 1 played ACC 1. MAC 2 played SBC 1. MAC 3 played CUSA 2. MAC 4 played WAC 1 MAC 5 played WAC 2. MAC 6 played SBC 3. MAC 7 played SBC 4/5.

Our losing did not determine how good we were. We were outmatched in every game, and actually did better than projected due to our worst bowl teams still winning.

The MAC has posted a winning record in the post season once over the last six years and I believe only twice over the last decade. Are all those poor records due to bad matchups? If you are talking about league depth then MAC 2 should be beating Sun Belt 1 and MAC 3 should beat CUSA 2. Depth would be our lower ranked teams beating higher ranked teams in other leagues. No wins over any other conference but the Sun Belt last season. And if we were outmatched against every other G5 conference in a bowl last season as you say, then how is the MAC the best G5 league.

Couple of points of fact:

•The MAC has never routinely received at-large bids in any decade.
•KSU's Elite Eight was 2002.
•Comparing bowl performances over time is not feasible since the bowl pool as been increasingly watered down to the point where 6-6 MAC teams have played in them. We send a lot worse teams to bowls now than previously because we send more teams. We don't send more teams because the MAC is better. We send them because 70/125 teams have to play in bowls and bowls have to take the 4th, 5th, and 6th, etc. best teams in the conference, not because it's some accomplishment. Comparing 2010+ bowl teams to those 10-15 years ago is silly. You could compare the MAC champ these days to the MAC champs in previous years, but this was often a one-bowl conference so there is no good measure for the others.

Not too long ago, NIU had a 2-10 season I believe. I don't think any fair NIU fan believes they should move to a different conference. Since 2006, CMU has more MAC Championships and bowl wins than NIU. No fair CMU fan is saying, or ever said we should be moving to a different conference. NIU is a very good team right now, but let's wait until the year is over. They by no means have the MAC locked up; BSU, UT, and maybe the MACCG still to go.

The MAC is more so about kicking a crappy team like EMU or UMass out. They have shown no progress, yes I know UMass is new, but they don't seem to be moving forward.

(11-11-2013 04:47 PM)george14 Wrote:  Not too long ago, NIU had a 2-10 season I believe. I don't think any fair NIU fan believes they should move to a different conference. Since 2006, CMU has more MAC Championships and bowl wins than NIU. No fair CMU fan is saying, or ever said we should be moving to a different conference. NIU is a very good team right now, but let's wait until the year is over. They by no means have the MAC locked up; BSU, UT, and maybe the MACCG still to go.

The MAC is more so about kicking a crappy team like EMU or UMass out. They have shown no progress, yes I know UMass is new, but they don't seem to be moving forward.

If there was a sensible choice for moving to a better conference, I wouldn't be against it. I'm sure that goes for a lot of MAC fans.