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ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
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NUPudge Offline
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Post: #161
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
Bob,
I see you point but I think we are putting everything together and they shouldn't be..

I think everyone is trying to fill in the blanks around what happening with EMU football and why we are not winning.. The only problem is that English name is always around/included when talks/conversations keep happening...

As I've said in another posting, what would people had said if English had said this to their daddy little girl or if a male manager had said this to their wife?

I just don't expect this from leaders talking to their followers like this.. It's just not right. Then add to the fact of how English dealt with the Reed family after losing a son, and if you add to this what someone said on this board about their wife ( emu employees) comment about English screaming all the time at the kids and not talking to them as young men.

Is this the type of person who should be the face of your D-1 football program?

Now Looking back 20/20, what has English done for this program? Are we better off before or after he's gone? I am just asking this question to get people to see and think about what could had caused the football team to lose games, come out playing flat, their heads hanging on the sideline, players playing with no fight during the games, etc.. and the reasons that English kids never gotten better after HS..

The AD/President were wrong for not firing English before the season was over, I am one who believed this firing should had happened sooner then it happened but I wasn't sure how his contract was written, and if it would had cost EMU more money if they had let him go early..
11-16-2013 09:17 AM
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ljmhurons Offline
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Post: #162
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
People shouldn't talk like that, but the outrage is disproportional to the offense. Take a closer look at what you're saying Pudge. "English kids never got better after HS." That's not even close to being true. The Packers have two players who just left EMU. Our TE has shown dramatic improvement this year. Dustin Creel too. I suspect that most players who stuck with the program were much better than they were in HS.
11-16-2013 09:33 AM
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EagleSam Offline
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Post: #163
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
(11-16-2013 09:33 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  People shouldn't talk like that, but the outrage is disproportional to the offense. Take a closer look at what you're saying Pudge. "English kids never got better after HS." That's not even close to being true. The Packers have two players who just left EMU. Our TE has shown dramatic improvement this year. Dustin Creel too. I suspect that most players who stuck with the program were much better than they were in HS.

Well, the Packers made Andy Mulumba switch positions, and he found a niche as a coverage specialist OLB. So English basically played him out of position his entire college career.

But by and large, I agree with you; plenty of guys have gotten better...but not many on the defensive side of the ball. Pudge Cotton had BCS offers, and he looks lost, same with Ike Spearman (most of the time). English has done very little to improve arguably two of the more talented and highly regarded recruits on the team, let alone the rest of the defense. Could they just not be as good as recruiting analysts (and BCS teams) thought they were? Sure. Could they just be poorly coached? More than likely.
11-16-2013 09:40 AM
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ljmhurons Offline
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Post: #164
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
(11-16-2013 09:40 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(11-16-2013 09:33 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  People shouldn't talk like that, but the outrage is disproportional to the offense. Take a closer look at what you're saying Pudge. "English kids never got better after HS." That's not even close to being true. The Packers have two players who just left EMU. Our TE has shown dramatic improvement this year. Dustin Creel too. I suspect that most players who stuck with the program were much better than they were in HS.

Well, the Packers made Andy Mulumba switch positions, and he found a niche as a coverage specialist OLB. So English basically played him out of position his entire college career.

But by and large, I agree with you; plenty of guys have gotten better...but not many on the defensive side of the ball. Pudge Cotton had BCS offers, and he looks lost, same with Ike Spearman (most of the time). English has done very little to improve arguably two of the more talented and highly regarded recruits on the team, let alone the rest of the defense. Could they just not be as good as recruiting analysts (and BCS teams) thought they were? Sure. Could they just be poorly coached? More than likely.

I don't think one can draw that conclusion about Mulumba. Players are assigned positions not only by what they can do, but by what their teammates can or cannot do. If a coach has a shortage at a position, then the coach may decide to move a player in from another position. It seems to me that it's more likely to be one of your better players since they have the talent to play multiple positions.

There is no doubt that players that haven't developed like hoped. That is very common, but still I'm quite sure that Cotton and Spearman are better than they were in HS.

Let's not put too much faith in HS reputations. A few years ago I went back to see what one analyst thought of EMU's recruiting class when NFL veteran Jason Jones joined EMU. The analyst identified those he thought were the best prospects and never mentioned Jones.

I don't know what happened with the D, but I believe it must be something much more than English's coaching. It seems impossible to believe that he could coach so many years and only after he came to EMU was it revealed that he couldn't coach.
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2013 11:39 AM by ljmhurons.)
11-16-2013 11:29 AM
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Ken Barna Offline
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Post: #165
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
Dear ljmhurons,
If, you do not believe that it was coaching the defense that caused the demise of Eastern under English, what about being a head coach for the first time? Personally I believe English's coaching of defenses at other schools wasn't that good. Especially at Michigan when he had a much better supporting cast, in their offense, at the time.
He was also trending downward with his jobs, U-M, Louisville, Eastern. Does that reveal anything? Just asking.
11-16-2013 03:34 PM
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ljmhurons Offline
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Post: #166
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
(11-16-2013 03:34 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear ljmhurons,
If, you do not believe that it was coaching the defense that caused the demise of Eastern under English, what about being a head coach for the first time? Personally I believe English's coaching of defenses at other schools wasn't that good. Especially at Michigan when he had a much better supporting cast, in their offense, at the time.
He was also trending downward with his jobs, U-M, Louisville, Eastern. Does that reveal anything? Just asking.

All of those things could have been factors. But how long has it been since we've had a good defense? It has been a very long time and we've had many head coaches, many DCs and many position coaches and almost always bad defenses. So there must be more to it than the coaching.
11-16-2013 05:48 PM
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NUPudge Offline
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Post: #167
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
I see that another ex-Michigan defenses coach is having problems somewhere else, i see Coach Snow is really have problems stopping anyone.. I am wondering if they are also blaming players over there...

http://www.owlsports.com/news/2013/11/16...31321.aspx

Will this be English next job in the college rank, DB coach at Temple joining his ex DC coach?
11-17-2013 06:20 AM
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HuronRob Offline
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Post: #168
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
(11-16-2013 05:48 PM)ljmhurons Wrote:  All of those things could have been factors. But how long has it been since we've had a good defense? It has been a very long time and we've had many head coaches, many DCs and many position coaches and almost always bad defenses. So there must be more to it than the coaching.

LJM,

You are absolutely correct. Since the 2005 season, the EMU defense has given up an average of 34 points per game. In that same time period, EMU has scored an average of 20 points per game. If EMU had had a decent defense (i.e. one that is capable of holding an opponent to fewer than 20 points per game) over that time span, with the offense's ability to average 20 points per game, they would have had markedly better records from 2005 to 2013. Obviously, that is a logical statement but it does point to the fact that EMU has had an horrid defense the nine seasons (2005 - 2013).
11-17-2013 11:40 AM
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TheWoodenNickle Online
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Post: #169
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
(11-17-2013 11:40 AM)HuronRob Wrote:  
(11-16-2013 05:48 PM)ljmhurons Wrote:  All of those things could have been factors. But how long has it been since we've had a good defense? It has been a very long time and we've had many head coaches, many DCs and many position coaches and almost always bad defenses. So there must be more to it than the coaching.

LJM,

You are absolutely correct. Since the 2005 season, the EMU defense has given up an average of 34 points per game. In that same time period, EMU has scored an average of 20 points per game. If EMU had had a decent defense (i.e. one that is capable of holding an opponent to fewer than 20 points per game) over that time span, with the offense's ability to average 20 points per game, they would have had markedly better records from 2005 to 2013. Obviously, that is a logical statement but it does point to the fact that EMU has had an horrid defense the nine seasons (2005 - 2013).

A good D makes a better O and visa versa.
11-17-2013 12:06 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #170
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
The fact that someone tape recorded English makes me think that he'd done speeches like that before and they finally decided to make it public, so this time they were prepared to record it.
11-17-2013 09:21 PM
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NUPudge Offline
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Post: #171
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
Link to EMU podcast from the past 2 weeks just posted. It was interesting listening to the dated 11/4 and hearing English last interview.. I am thinking he may had known about the tape on him.. I thinking, but not sure...

http://emueagles.com/podcasts.aspx
11-18-2013 09:04 AM
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HuronRob Offline
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Post: #172
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
I am very excited about the potential of the next head coach. Shoot, it's almost like Christmas morning! I have no idea who it will be but change was badly needed. I have no outlandish expectations but am hopeful for success. If nothing more, I would love to see improvement every year and opportunities to go to the MACC, win and go to a bowl game. I expect baby steps at first but hopeful that by the new coach's third and fourth years we are doing great things.
11-18-2013 06:03 PM
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Bob Wickersham Offline
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Post: #173
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
(11-18-2013 06:03 PM)HuronRob Wrote:  I am very excited about the potential of the next head coach. Shoot, it's almost like Christmas morning! I have no idea who it will be but change was badly needed. I have no outlandish expectations but am hopeful for success. If nothing more, I would love to see improvement every year and opportunities to go to the MACC, win and go to a bowl game. I expect baby steps at first but hopeful that by the new coach's third and fourth years we are doing great things.
Really? You actually saw a potential coach's name who quickens the pulse, creates a buzz, fires up what's left of the fanbase? You also don't mind waiting another 3 or 4 years for something good to happen? I am just about ready to join the growing throng who want to eliminate the program or leave the MAC. Contending will never happen here. If it was possible, it would have already happened by now.
11-18-2013 06:14 PM
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HuronRob Offline
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Post: #174
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
(11-18-2013 06:14 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(11-18-2013 06:03 PM)HuronRob Wrote:  I am very excited about the potential of the next head coach. Shoot, it's almost like Christmas morning! I have no idea who it will be but change was badly needed. I have no outlandish expectations but am hopeful for success. If nothing more, I would love to see improvement every year and opportunities to go to the MACC, win and go to a bowl game. I expect baby steps at first but hopeful that by the new coach's third and fourth years we are doing great things.
Really? You actually saw a potential coach's name who quickens the pulse, creates a buzz, fires up what's left of the fanbase? You also don't mind waiting another 3 or 4 years for something good to happen? I am just about ready to join the growing throng who want to eliminate the program or leave the MAC. Contending will never happen here. If it was possible, it would have already happened by now.

I didn't say that, did I? What I said was that I am excited about the potential a new coach can bring to the football program at EMU. To be honest with you, I have no idea who will be hired (do you?) but it's doubtful that, whoever it is, the program really can't be any worse.

You really have to lighten up. We're talking about college football here. It isn't life or death. It's a game.

Am I willing to wait another 3 or 4 years for something good to happen? I didn't say that either, did I? No. What I wrote that that I am willing to give the new coach a couple of years, with signs of improvement, to get things going. I further wrote that I am expecting great improvement by year 3 or 4 - that being, potentially, a MACC victory and/or bowl appearances. That certainly doesn't sound like I'm willing to wait 3 or 4 years for something good to happen.

Bob, the decision is out of our hands. There is no use getting irritated about it. We have been below mediocre for so long that consistently winning 5 or more games every year would be a great improvement. I don't expect EMU to consistently beat Big Ten teams every year but I do expect us to be competitive in the MAC. That's a real good start.
11-18-2013 06:32 PM
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Bob Wickersham Offline
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Post: #175
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
(11-18-2013 06:32 PM)HuronRob Wrote:  
(11-18-2013 06:14 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(11-18-2013 06:03 PM)HuronRob Wrote:  I am very excited about the potential of the next head coach. Shoot, it's almost like Christmas morning! I have no idea who it will be but change was badly needed. I have no outlandish expectations but am hopeful for success. If nothing more, I would love to see improvement every year and opportunities to go to the MACC, win and go to a bowl game. I expect baby steps at first but hopeful that by the new coach's third and fourth years we are doing great things.
Really? You actually saw a potential coach's name who quickens the pulse, creates a buzz, fires up what's left of the fanbase? You also don't mind waiting another 3 or 4 years for something good to happen? I am just about ready to join the growing throng who want to eliminate the program or leave the MAC. Contending will never happen here. If it was possible, it would have already happened by now.

I didn't say that, did I? What I said was that I am excited about the potential a new coach can bring to the football program at EMU. To be honest with you, I have no idea who will be hired (do you?) but it's doubtful that, whoever it is, the program really can't be any worse.

You really have to lighten up. We're talking about college football here. It isn't life or death. It's a game.

Am I willing to wait another 3 or 4 years for something good to happen? I didn't say that either, did I? No. What I wrote that that I am willing to give the new coach a couple of years, with signs of improvement, to get things going. I further wrote that I am expecting great improvement by year 3 or 4 - that being, potentially, a MACC victory and/or bowl appearances. That certainly doesn't sound like I'm willing to wait 3 or 4 years for something good to happen.

Bob, the decision is out of our hands. There is no use getting irritated about it. We have been below mediocre for so long that consistently winning 5 or more games every year would be a great improvement. I don't expect EMU to consistently beat Big Ten teams every year but I do expect us to be competitive in the MAC. That's a real good start.
I have to admit, your optimism is refreshing. Good for you, Rob. I wish I could be more like you! I am beaten down with the football program. It just seems like an endless cycle of garbage. I mean, just by dumb luck we should have been able to have the right coach with the right system with a few game changing players to be above average by now--even just once! A blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile. I don't understand how any team can be so bad for so long. It baffles and frustrates me. When is it time to just say, UNCLE!? I have no idea who the next coach is going to be, but I am a track record guy. There is nothing that would indicate the next coach is going to be any better than Cooper,Rasnick,Woodruff, Genyk, or English. Did I miss anyone? It's been brutal.
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2013 07:17 PM by Bob Wickersham.)
11-18-2013 07:16 PM
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Ken Barna Offline
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Post: #176
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
Dear HuronRob,
I agree with you, and all we can do is hope that whomever is the next coach, that he can turn the program around. Many of the names that have been talked about I like, there's only a few I'm not crazy about. I wonder if any interviews have been held?
11-18-2013 07:17 PM
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HuronRob Offline
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Post: #177
RE: ENGLISH IS GONE !!!!
I have to admit, your optimism is refreshing. Good for you, Rob. I wish I could be more like you! I am beaten down with the football program. It just seems like an endless cycle of garbage. I mean, just by dumb luck we should have been able to have the right coach with the right system with a few game changing players to be above average by now--even just once! A blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile. I don't understand how any team can be so bad for so long. It baffles and frustrates me. When is it time to just say, UNCLE!? I have no idea who the next coach is going to be, but I am a track record guy. There is nothing that would indicate the next coach is going to be any better than Cooper,Rasnick,Woodruff, Genyk, or English. Did I miss anyone? It's been brutal.
[/quote]

Bob, repeat after me.... serenity now. Don't make the same mistake George Constanza did by yelling it. Say it calmly and serenely. Serenity now.
11-18-2013 07:21 PM
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