(10-06-2013 06:42 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 03:40 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 10:25 AM)OldGoldnBlue Wrote:  Pat may be right but he needs to stfu. Great player but he has never deserved the hero worship he gets from our fan base

You're just joking, right? Name me 5 better and more important players for WVU in the last 25 years.

Tavon Austin, Geno Smith, Stedman Bailey, Steve Slaton, Owen Schmitt, Pacman, Chris Henry, and Don Barclay. I could go on with the list. But you get the point. Pat White was a very good player for WVU. But it was simply due to the system he was running. Everyone on that list has had a better NFL career than White, and I could name a dozen more if I wanted...

I agree with OGB. Pat White needs to STFU on this. He's not involved, and is simply reacting as a fan of the program, without thinking through everything involved...

Bit, you are correct about Pat White not being a part of the program, but I would think that being the WV "Icon" that he is, that he is basing his opinion on what he personally knows about the inner workings of the prgram based on his relationships with the players. I would also think that what he knows about the WV program currently, is about 1000 times more than everybody on this forum as a collective
group. My saying all of this dosent mean that i agree with PW, because i think he should keep his mouth shut on the matter unless he has the backing of other former players who are also willing to go on record. But my point is that you cant disgard what he is saying as i think he is very imformed.

"Pat White ‏@P5White 6h

My apologies go out to Dana, the staff, the players and any other members of the mountaineer family that my words may have offended."

(10-06-2013 07:41 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 06:42 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 03:40 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 10:25 AM)OldGoldnBlue Wrote:  Pat may be right but he needs to stfu. Great player but he has never deserved the hero worship he gets from our fan base

You're just joking, right? Name me 5 better and more important players for WVU in the last 25 years.

Tavon Austin, Geno Smith, Stedman Bailey, Steve Slaton, Owen Schmitt, Pacman, Chris Henry, and Don Barclay. I could go on with the list. But you get the point. Pat White was a very good player for WVU. But it was simply due to the system he was running. Everyone on that list has had a better NFL career than White, and I could name a dozen more if I wanted...

I agree with OGB. Pat White needs to STFU on this. He's not involved, and is simply reacting as a fan of the program, without thinking through everything involved...

Bit, you are correct about Pat White not being a part of the program, but I would think that being the WV "Icon" that he is, that he is basing his opinion on what he personally knows about the inner workings of the prgram based on his relationships with the players. I would also think that what he knows about the WV program currently, is about 1000 times more than everybody on this forum as a collective group. My saying all of this dosent mean that i agree with PW, because i think he should keep his mouth shut on the matter unless he has the backing of other former players who are also willing to go on record. But my point is that you cant disgard what he is saying as i think he is very imformed.

Pat White graduated so long ago, that he has no relationship with anyone currently on the WVU squad. Oliver Luck wasn't his AD, and Stew wasn't his coach. Stew merely took over a team Rich Rodriguez built that White happened to be a part of. But Stew didn't recruit well, and never used all his scholarships, which is why Holgorsen has little developed talent to work with...

As I've said over and over, the best players for WVU are freshmen and sophomores, which isn't a winning recipe when that covers the entire spectrum of the team. The Mountaineers will lose only 7 starters to graduation over the next 2 years. All experts agree that the teams that play best have senior leadership - and plenty of it. WVU won't have that until Holgorsen's first recruiting class becomes seniors - in 2 years...

(10-06-2013 08:03 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 07:41 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 06:42 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 03:40 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 10:25 AM)OldGoldnBlue Wrote:  Pat may be right but he needs to stfu. Great player but he has never deserved the hero worship he gets from our fan base

You're just joking, right? Name me 5 better and more important players for WVU in the last 25 years.

Tavon Austin, Geno Smith, Stedman Bailey, Steve Slaton, Owen Schmitt, Pacman, Chris Henry, and Don Barclay. I could go on with the list. But you get the point. Pat White was a very good player for WVU. But it was simply due to the system he was running. Everyone on that list has had a better NFL career than White, and I could name a dozen more if I wanted...

I agree with OGB. Pat White needs to STFU on this. He's not involved, and is simply reacting as a fan of the program, without thinking through everything involved...

Bit, you are correct about Pat White not being a part of the program, but I would think that being the WV "Icon" that he is, that he is basing his opinion on what he personally knows about the inner workings of the prgram based on his relationships with the players. I would also think that what he knows about the WV program currently, is about 1000 times more than everybody on this forum as a collective group. My saying all of this dosent mean that i agree with PW, because i think he should keep his mouth shut on the matter unless he has the backing of other
former players who are also willing to go on record. But my point is that you cant disgard what he is saying as i think he is very imformed.

Pat White graduated so long ago, that he has no relationship with anyone currently on the WVU

come on bit. This is a ridiculous notion that Pat White doesnt have a relationship with anybody at WV. jim Brown, Donovan McNabb, Dwight Freeny etc.. Have relationships with current SU players and they have been out of SU a lot longer than Pat White. And sometimes they are used to awe players as well help them in other areas. It would be ridiculous for the WV coaching staff to not utilize the name Pat White. But if you say that they dont, well thats another miss on Holgersons part. But Im sure Holgerson is smarter than that.

cuse, I'm sure you're right, to a certain extent. But you and I are talking about different things...

Like I said, Ollie wasn't White's AD, and Holgorsen wasn't his coach. He also did very little work at WVU's football facilities after he left campus. He went to other people whenever he needed work, and he's still trying to make it onto a squad somewhere...

That's in complete contrast to Bruce Irvin, who spent his suspension working out at WVU, in the new weight room he spent a million dollars on. His work at WVU paid off too. You could see that in his first game back from suspension. He had 3 solo tackles, a sack, and a hit on Luck as he was making a pass. There's a sign for you...

(10-06-2013 08:16 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 08:03 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 07:41 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 06:42 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 03:40 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  You're just joking, right? Name me 5 better and more important players for WVU in the last 25 years.

Tavon Austin, Geno Smith, Stedman Bailey, Steve Slaton, Owen Schmitt, Pacman, Chris Henry, and Don Barclay. I could go on with the list. But you get the point. Pat White was a very good player for WVU. But it was simply due to the system he was running. Everyone on that list has had a better NFL career than White, and I could name a dozen more if I wanted...

I agree with OGB. Pat White needs to STFU on this. He's not involved, and is simply reacting as a fan of the program, without thinking through everything involved...

Bit, you are correct about Pat White not being a part of the program, but I would think that being the WV "Icon" that he is, that he is basing his opinion on what he personally knows about the inner workings of the prgram based on his relationships with the players. I would also think that what he knows about the WV program currently, is about 1000 times more than everybody on this forum as a collective group. My saying all of this dosent mean that i agree with PW, because i think he should keep his mouth shut on the matter unless he has the backing of other
former players who are also willing to go on record. But my point is that you cant disgard what he is saying as i think he is very imformed.

Pat White graduated so long ago, that he has no relationship with anyone currently on the WVU

come on bit. This is a ridiculous notion that Pat White doesnt have a relationship with anybody at WV. jim Brown, Donovan McNabb, Dwight Freeny etc.. Have relationships with current SU players and they have been out of SU a lot longer than Pat White. And sometimes they are used to awe players as well help them in other areas. It would be ridiculous for the WV coaching staff to not utilize the name Pat White. But if you say that they dont, well thats another miss on Holgersons part. But Im sure Holgerson is smarter than that.

I think its pretty obvious that Dana and Pat don't have a relationship

(10-06-2013 08:03 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  As I've said over and over, the best players for WVU are freshmen and sophomores, which isn't a winning recipe when that covers the entire spectrum of the team. The Mountaineers will lose only 7 starters to graduation over the next 2 years. All experts agree that the teams that play best have senior leadership - and plenty of it. WVU won't have that until Holgorsen's first recruiting class becomes seniors - in 2 years...

All of this may be technically true, but fan tolerances can be emotionally driven.

I think one problem DH is having isn't just the losses but the embarrassing nature of some of them. E.g., until October 2012, WVU hadn't lost a game by 30 points since 2003. But in the past 12 months you guys have lost 4 such games. Those kinds of losses can really sting, and fan the flames that result in statements like those of Pat White.

I can't believe West Virginia fans are trying to dismiss Pat White and his accomplishments. In my opinion Pat White was one of the top 5 players to play for West Virginia in the last 30 years or so and has always seemed to be a good guy. Its sacreligious for a Pitt fan but I actually enjoyed watching WVU games when he was running the show. It's just baffling how fans continue to defend this goon and bash White when he's saying what many non-biased observers think.

I share many MKPitt's thoughts on this. I really don't think Holgy is the answer. I realize that WVU is young on offense and maybe on defense as well, but I never remember seeing WVU give up as many points as y'all have the past two seasons. Maybe that has something to do w/ B12 offenses, I don't know. Having both WVU and Pitt competitive makes the chirping between the fanbases so much fun. I love to harass my family that are from Weston and wear my Pitt gear to the reunions. I'm not one to rub salt into a wound, I just feel that Holgy needs to go.

As for Pat White as a player, maaaaannnn I think some of y'all are underrating him. While yes it's true, he isn't performing at the NFL level like other WVU grads, some of the best college players never played in the NFL or was a complete bust. Colt McCoy and Tebow comes to mind.

I would think one of the problems Pat has with Holgs is the way Billy Stewart was let go. Pat loved Stewart and was very opinionated about Stewart after the Fiesta Bowl.
I'm sure he didn't like the way Luck handled the whole Holgs head coach in waiting fiasco. Neither did a sizeable portion of the WVU fanbase (myself included).
IMHO this isn't a big deal. Pat has said he was sorry for his comments and that should be the end of it.
I agree with the comment quo vadis made about the losses. It's not that WVU is losing games, it's how bad we are losing them.
Holgs will get another couple of years to turn around the ship. Every coach deserves that esp after winning a BCS bowl in the manner he did.

(10-07-2013 02:55 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I share many MKPitt's thoughts on this. I really don't think Holgy is the answer. I realize that WVU is young on offense and maybe on defense as well, but I never remember seeing WVU give up as many points as y'all have the past two seasons. Maybe that has something to do w/ B12 offenses, I don't know. Having both WVU and Pitt competitive makes the chirping between the fanbases so much fun. I love to harass my family that are from Weston and wear my Pitt gear to the reunions. I'm not one to rub salt into a wound, I just feel that Holgy needs to go.

As for Pat White as a player, maaaaannnn I think some of y'all are underrating him. While yes it's true, he isn't performing at the NFL level like other WVU grads, some of the best college players never played in the NFL or was a complete bust. Colt McCoy and Tebow comes to mind.

Who's diminishing Pat White's accomplishments at WVU? I'm merely pointing out that many WVU grads have gone on to a career in the NFL, while his skill set doesn't translate to such heights as of yet...

As for his, and everyone else's comments on Holgorsen, I'm willing to wait until he gets his players in place before I judge his legacy. Right now, we need to keep developing the players in place, so they can run the offense efficiently. It took Art Briles several years to get his offense running like it is now. That kind of efficiency doesn't happen overnight...

The problem with folks today is that they expect instant gratification, and that rarely happens in real life. It only happens in video games - or when mommy and daddy do all the work for you ahead of time...

(10-06-2013 11:46 PM)MKPitt Wrote:  I can't believe West Virginia fans are trying to dismiss Pat White and his accomplishments.

What's astonishing about it is that many of these same denigrators praised him to high heaven when he was playing. They constantly talked about his Heisman worthiness, the four bowl wins, etc.

(10-07-2013 08:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 11:46 PM)MKPitt Wrote:  I can't believe West Virginia fans are trying to dismiss Pat White and his accomplishments.

What's astonishing about it is that many of these same denigrators praised him to high heaven when he was playing. They constantly talked about his Heisman worthiness, the four bowl wins, etc.

Pretty sure I'm the only one who said something negative about him and I was solely referring to off the field attitude. To be frank he's a pretty big A-hole off the field.

(10-07-2013 10:45 AM)OldGoldnBlue Wrote:  

(10-07-2013 08:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-06-2013 11:46 PM)MKPitt Wrote:  I can't believe West Virginia fans are trying to dismiss Pat White and his accomplishments.

What's astonishing about it is that many of these same denigrators praised him to high heaven when he was playing. They constantly talked about his Heisman worthiness, the four bowl wins, etc.

Pretty sure I'm the only one who said something negative about him and I was solely referring to off the field attitude. To be frank he's a pretty big A-hole off the field.

People also forget that it was his resounding endorsement of Bill Stewart that persuaded Eddie Pastilong to hire him as our head coach. His record for coaching selection ain't what I'd call stellar, unlike his play on the field...

It makes you wonder about those "incidents" out at casinos and such when he was first hired...

(10-07-2013 11:10 AM)mlb Wrote:  It makes you wonder about those "incidents" out at casinos and such when he was first hired...

It was only one incident - at a dog track and not a casino, dude. If was also blown all out of proportion due to Stewart's campaign against him. In case you have forgotten, Holgorsen was merely inebriated, which I think all of us have experienced at one time or another in our life, and he was not causing anyone any problems. The folks at Raceway Park just wanted him to leave, which he wouldn't do because he was too drunk to drive off. If only other people had such sense when they were drunk...

(10-07-2013 11:19 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-07-2013 11:10 AM)mlb Wrote:  It makes you wonder about those "incidents" out at casinos and such when he was first hired...

It was only one incident - at a dog track and not a casino, dude. If was also blown all out of proportion due to Stewart's campaign against him. In case you have forgotten, Holgorsen was merely inebriated, which I think all of us have experienced at one time or another in our life, and he was not causing anyone any problems. The folks at Raceway Park just wanted him to leave, which he wouldn't do because he was too drunk to drive off. If only other people had such sense when they were drunk...

That's sugar coating it to say the least. I know people who were there at the time of the incident and Holgs was hammered down and being an ass. The guy who asked him to leave is a major putz though and has even kicked out a friend of mine. There was also an incident at the casino outside Wheeling that got swept under the rug.

I personally don't really have that big of a problem with those incidents. He's a young millionaire bachelor, I imagine I would be leading a similar lifestyle if I were in his shoes

(10-07-2013 01:20 PM)OldGoldnBlue Wrote:  

(10-07-2013 11:19 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-07-2013 11:10 AM)mlb Wrote:  It makes you wonder about those "incidents" out at casinos and such when he was first hired...

It was only one incident - at a dog track and not a casino, dude. If was also blown all out of proportion due to Stewart's campaign against him. In case you have forgotten, Holgorsen was merely inebriated, which I think all of us have experienced at one time or another in our life, and he was not causing anyone any problems. The folks at Raceway Park just wanted him to leave, which he wouldn't do because he was too drunk to drive off. If only other people had such sense when they were drunk...

That's sugar coating it to say the least. I know people who were there at the time of the incident and Holgs was hammered down and being an ass. The guy who asked him to leave is a major putz though and has even kicked out a friend of mine. There was also an incident at the casino outside Wheeling that got swept under the rug.

I personally don't really have that big of a problem with those incidents. He's a young millionaire bachelor, I imagine I would be leading a similar lifestyle if I were in his shoes

There are no casinos in West Virginia. However there are a few places with slot machines that want to consider themselves casinos. But I've been to Vegas, Reno, Atlantic City, and a few other places that have casinos. Trust me, there are none in West Virginia...

I had forgotten about the incident in Wheeling. But IMO both incidents are much ado about nothing. There's been nothing of that sort since. It would be a different story if such things continued to happen. But they haven't...

(10-07-2013 01:25 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-07-2013 01:20 PM)OldGoldnBlue Wrote:  

(10-07-2013 11:19 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-07-2013 11:10 AM)mlb Wrote:  It makes you wonder about those "incidents" out at casinos and such when he was first hired...

It was only one incident - at a dog track and not a casino, dude. If was also blown all out of proportion due to Stewart's campaign against him. In case you have forgotten, Holgorsen was merely inebriated, which I think all of us have experienced at one time or another in our life, and he was not causing anyone any problems. The folks at Raceway Park just wanted him to leave, which he wouldn't do because he was too drunk to drive off. If only other people had such sense when they were drunk...

That's sugar coating it to say the least. I know people who were there at the time of the incident and Holgs was hammered down and being an ass. The guy who asked him to leave is a major putz though and has even kicked out a friend of mine. There was also an incident at the casino outside Wheeling that got swept under the rug.

I personally don't really have that big of a problem with those incidents. He's a young millionaire bachelor, I imagine I would be leading a similar lifestyle if I were in his shoes

There are no casinos in West Virginia. However there are a few places with slot machines that want to consider themselves casinos. But I've been to Vegas, Reno, Atlantic City, and a few other places that have casinos. Trust me, there are none in West Virginia...

I had forgotten about the incident in Wheeling. But IMO both incidents are much ado about nothing. There's been nothing of that sort since. It would be a different story if such things continued to happen. But they haven't...

This is splitting hairs but they have table games now and consider themselves a casino.

Mardi Gras Casino and Resort.

This is a casino in Cherokee, NC...


This is a West Virginia version of a casino...