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Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #21
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
(10-03-2013 12:33 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-03-2013 09:09 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  No. Other than a handful of really compelling games, there has been a boatload of crap. The bounty of BCS vs lower tier FBS and/or FCS games pre-conference has gotten ridiculous. Combine that with ticket prices and the quality of the "stay at home and watch HDTV" experience, that is your reaosn.

The way out of this box (which may never happen) is some kind of playoff format where teams with 2 or even 3 losses on a quality schedule can still make it to the playoff. If that ever happens, then teams won't be afraid to schedule non-con games they might lose.

But when your first loss is possibly fatal to your playoff hopes and your second loss definitely is, then there's a lot of risk for contenders in scheduling a home/home series with a quality non-con opponent.

Add to that the need of other programs to schedule 4 likely non-conference wins to reach a bowl and it gets worse.

Before the CFP was finalized one format looked at was a 4 team playoff and ten "BCS/CFP" bowls with no conference auto bids. Teams ranked 1-4 in the playoff 5-24 in the elite bowls. One of the bigger opponents was Slive who actually would have seen his teams come out better based on past history.

A big playoff might have the desired benefit.
10-03-2013 10:53 PM
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CoogNellie Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
A 3% change is nothing and means squat. If you have a 3% drop for 10 consecutive years then you have a problem.
10-03-2013 11:40 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
(10-03-2013 08:43 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(10-03-2013 08:32 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  
(10-03-2013 08:15 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I blame the content, actually. I'm tired of the first month being not much more than fluff fare. I know I'm not alone, and there's no way in the blazes I'd pay good money to see booster rag photo-op matches with fuel, lodging, and other costs therein.

There was plenty of fluff in 2011 as well. Weak schedules do hurt attendance - but I actually believe that the poor employment market surrounding a lot of these schools is having an effect as well.

American families/students/alumni are being smarter with their dollars when it comes to entertainment. Why spend $200+ at a football game when you can spend $5-45 at a restaurant and watch MANY games?

The stadium experience IS superior to the bar experience, but it isn't $150 better.

Since 2000 80% of Americans have seen their disposible incomes fall in a period of low inflation but ticket prices have risen. It is hard to tell someone who was making $30,000 in 2000 and now making $35,000 in 2013 that the $30 ticket they bought in 2000 is now $50 when you consider you need to be making $40,000 in 2013 to have the same spending power you had in 2000 and if that ticket had risen the same rate as inflation it would only cost $40.

I think you are on the money with this analysis. Only that inflation in the SEC (although we still hold season tickets like the fools we are) is much worse than yours. Back in 2000 those tickets were $40 each with an annual contribution of $300 per book for end zone and upper deck tickets. They now cost just a hair under $500 per book with another contribution of $400 per book required to qualify for season tickets. For the average family of 4 that's $3,600 for the Fall. You can buy a lot of hot dogs, beer, coke, and a great HD widescreen for that and still not touch your expenses in gasoline, lodging, restaurant food, and concessions. If we didn't live so close to the stadium after 40 plus years of holding season tickets we would have opted out.
10-04-2013 12:09 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
This is a ridiculous article.

Just like the same non-story was last year that "found" a large decrease over the last decade. Average attendance is down because there are more teams in D-1a that count toward the average. Same-school attendance is actually up over the last decade, and pretty flat over the last few years.

Their own stats show no overall decrease in same-school attendance: "So far this season, 13 of the top 25 attendance leaders are down compared to the first five weeks of 2012.... Eight of the SEC’s schools are within 2 percent of where they were in 2012....Half of the SEC has declined, although two schools are by less than 1 percent." Thus, 1/2 of the top-25 attendance leaders have increased, and 1/2 the SEC has increased. Many in the SEC have increased by more than 2%.

But stating it this way doesn't fit their narrative, so they ignore the facts that are staring them in the face.
10-04-2013 05:15 AM
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Post: #25
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
(10-04-2013 05:15 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  This is a ridiculous article.

If you told the power brokers they could basically double ticket prices and double TV revenue by putting literally every game played on TV, and that all they would give up would be 3% of the physical attendance coming through the gate, they'd take the deal every time. The reporter took a story that is good news (in a financial sense) for the industry and spun it like it was bad because the writer really doesn't understand the subject matter.
10-04-2013 07:10 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
(10-04-2013 07:10 AM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  The reporter took a story that is good news (in a financial sense) for the industry and spun it like it was bad because the writer really doesn't understand the subject matter.

I'd ask the local business owners how they do when people don't show up as much as they used to. "Good" for the people working in the cities, not so rosy for those in and around the college towns...
10-04-2013 07:32 AM
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Tigeer Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
It's only going to get worse over time.
10-04-2013 07:50 AM
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tigerjamesc Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
The big problem is, it has been dropping fairly consistently....last year, 2012, saw the lowest average since 2003, and this year will most likely break that. Attendance peaked in 08 and has dropped since. it is a trend albeit a slow one. It's not TV either as viewership is down. We may love it, but America is moving away from CFB at a slow, but steady pace.
(This post was last modified: 10-04-2013 08:07 AM by tigerjamesc.)
10-04-2013 08:05 AM
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Post: #29
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
(10-04-2013 07:50 AM)Tigeer Wrote:  It's only going to get worse over time.
True.
10-04-2013 08:27 AM
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Post: #30
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
average attendance will drop- but it's not comparing apples to apples...

With eventually 10 new teams- that's 50-60 games eventually that are at lets say 30,000 stadiums. So, instead of say 100/800 games being at huge stadiums like Michigan, Penn St, Ohio St, Tennessee, etc.- it's now 100/850. Of course that's going to skew the average.
10-04-2013 08:33 AM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #31
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
(10-04-2013 12:09 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-03-2013 08:43 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(10-03-2013 08:32 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  
(10-03-2013 08:15 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I blame the content, actually. I'm tired of the first month being not much more than fluff fare. I know I'm not alone, and there's no way in the blazes I'd pay good money to see booster rag photo-op matches with fuel, lodging, and other costs therein.

There was plenty of fluff in 2011 as well. Weak schedules do hurt attendance - but I actually believe that the poor employment market surrounding a lot of these schools is having an effect as well.

American families/students/alumni are being smarter with their dollars when it comes to entertainment. Why spend $200+ at a football game when you can spend $5-45 at a restaurant and watch MANY games?

The stadium experience IS superior to the bar experience, but it isn't $150 better.

Since 2000 80% of Americans have seen their disposible incomes fall in a period of low inflation but ticket prices have risen. It is hard to tell someone who was making $30,000 in 2000 and now making $35,000 in 2013 that the $30 ticket they bought in 2000 is now $50 when you consider you need to be making $40,000 in 2013 to have the same spending power you had in 2000 and if that ticket had risen the same rate as inflation it would only cost $40.

I think you are on the money with this analysis. Only that inflation in the SEC (although we still hold season tickets like the fools we are) is much worse than yours. Back in 2000 those tickets were $40 each with an annual contribution of $300 per book for end zone and upper deck tickets. They now cost just a hair under $500 per book with another contribution of $400 per book required to qualify for season tickets. For the average family of 4 that's $3,600 for the Fall. You can buy a lot of hot dogs, beer, coke, and a great HD widescreen for that and still not touch your expenses in gasoline, lodging, restaurant food, and concessions. If we didn't live so close to the stadium after 40 plus years of holding season tickets we would have opted out.

In 5 years my ticket have gone $250 to $375 (ticket + donation). I used to spend $1100 a year (gave an extra $100 to get better parking) and now have to spend $1500 (but actually spend $3200 to get even better parking).
10-04-2013 08:38 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
I don't think it would be alarming if more facilities were making the dramatic shift from bleachers to actual seating; that decrease would be a natural outcome willfully made by schools. But, who's making their venues smaller, especially at the major conference level?
10-04-2013 09:00 AM
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Post: #33
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
Well now that I think about it, and resemble it, Boomers are getting a helluva lot older in spite of liposuction, face lifts, juicing, Low T replacements, and Viagra. I'm glad to have avoided those benchmarks of my generation. But what none of us can avoid are the ravages of time, alzheimers, and death. I'm willing to bet that since the popularity of college football reached a zenith with the Boomers what we are witnessing now is the average increase of younger participation subtracted from the natural attrition of the Boomer generation. When the younger generation being added earns less statistically by a significant amount (especially with inflation calculated into the equation) than the Boomers then inflated costs of attendance would impact their numbers as they try to buy into college athletics. The net result is probably about a 3% reduction in attendance. Old farts like lazy boys and HD TV's with easy access to kitchen and bathroom, and young folks (like I did at that age) like to be where the action is. All of this is likely no more mysterious or significant than that.
(This post was last modified: 10-04-2013 09:31 AM by JRsec.)
10-04-2013 09:31 AM
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Post: #34
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
(10-04-2013 09:00 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I don't think it would be alarming if more facilities were making the dramatic shift from bleachers to actual seating; that decrease would be a natural outcome willfully made by schools. But, who's making their venues smaller, especially at the major conference level?

I know TCU decreased official seating capacity by a thousand or so during their renovations. However they added tons of luxury boxes, suite tickets, club levels, etc to generate a lot more revenue. They had 6 "founders suites" that were $15 million each.

There have been some issues with the renovations as it relates to ticket distributions, but generating additional revenue with fewer seats is not one of the issues they face.

I think Baylor is decreasing capacity in their new stadium but adding luxury items as well.
10-04-2013 09:51 AM
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Post: #35
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
JR, that was true before the electronic age. But many schools have declining student attendance, because the kids growing up today have had their ipods, iphones, and many other forms of electronic entertainment that they've become addicted to. This doesn't bode well for the future...

As time goes by, those who pay serious attention to college sports will get older and older. I kind of doubt the current generation will take much part in that demographic for a lot of schools. We're already seeing that at a number of schools, with the drop in student attendance around the country. Only a very few schools seem immune to it...
10-04-2013 10:12 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
(10-04-2013 10:12 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  JR, that was true before the electronic age. But many schools have declining student attendance, because the kids growing up today have had their ipods, iphones, and many other forms of electronic entertainment that they've become addicted to. This doesn't bode well for the future...

As time goes by, those who pay serious attention to college sports will get older and older. I kind of doubt the current generation will take much part in that demographic for a lot of schools. We're already seeing that at a number of schools, with the drop in student attendance around the country. Only a very few schools seem immune to it...

I do think what you are saying is true. I'm not sure it is statistically measurable even though it passes the eye test 100%. They are going to have to find some standards to quantify what we are seeing. Which is of course another reason I don't put much faith into statistics.

The truly frightening part about the trend you tagged is that those people aren't invested in much of anything. They don't know how to communicate well with each other, have little desire to participate in community events inclusive of the standard of participation in elections and service that most citizens once accepted as the norm, and certainly seem to have little concern over what happens to their neighbors. They are interested in what they are interested in and little else. I say this out of concern because some of them are my nieces and nephews and grandchildren. Shoot, they aren't even interested in their work. We're in for a helluva ride.
(This post was last modified: 10-04-2013 10:24 AM by JRsec.)
10-04-2013 10:23 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
Actually, I think the schools got too jumpy about exploiting the season ticket market while further marginalizing the student sections. Keep sticking kids in the bad seats while raising price on their end and raising them even higher on the other side, and it creates a gap.

I don't give the technology argument much strength. I think it's an overstated observation that really only benefits those so far removed from the institution; I think it actually helps the connectivity cause. I'd rather be in the stands, believe me. I just don't believe in paying those prices for that product. I'm having a much better time going to pro games, or minor league baseball. And I say minor league baseball because it captures what used to make college football so great: local, community, connectivity, wholesome, and just plain fun. CFB feels like the commodity it's trying so desperately to be.
10-04-2013 10:23 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
WVU has been allocating a number of seats for students that have gone unused for the last few years. So they are reallocating the seats to account for this. If students want to take part in it, they need to show up and make their presence known. If not, they become irrelevant, and only serve to make their university look like it has little interest among their fans...
10-04-2013 10:37 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
(10-04-2013 10:23 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  And I say minor league baseball because it captures what used to make college football so great: local, community, connectivity, wholesome, and just plain fun. CFB feels like the commodity it's trying so desperately to be.

You should go to a few college baseball games this year, if you're looking for those qualities.
10-04-2013 10:38 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Report: College football attendance down 3% in opening month
(10-04-2013 10:23 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Actually, I think the schools got too jumpy about exploiting the season ticket market while further marginalizing the student sections. Keep sticking kids in the bad seats while raising price on their end and raising them even higher on the other side, and it creates a gap.

I don't give the technology argument much strength. I think it's an overstated observation that really only benefits those so far removed from the institution; I think it actually helps the connectivity cause. I'd rather be in the stands, believe me. I just don't believe in paying those prices for that product. I'm having a much better time going to pro games, or minor league baseball. And I say minor league baseball because it captures what used to make college football so great: local, community, connectivity, wholesome, and just plain fun. CFB feels like the commodity it's trying so desperately to be.

Yeah, my wife and I still love college baseball. The crowd seldom exceeds 4,000, you can actually hear the umpires and coaches talking. The families of the kids playing sit around you and talk about what's going on in the off season and are knowledgeable about the game. And there is not enough money riding on the competition to make you suspicious of the umpires. It is in our experience the last truly collegiate sport. Swimming & Diving, Track & Field are too tied to foreign students and the Olympic's political scene. Football and Basketball are not really student athlete sports and have a very heavy commercial and corporate presence. Every kid on the baseball team is on some kind of partial scholarship or pays their own way. It has it's occasional star just looking to get into the majors, but for the most part the kids playing are still trying to earn a diploma. But, we have been dismayed in recent seasons that the corporate takeover of the venue is becoming more and more apparent as it did with the football stadium almost 3 decades ago, and with the basketball arena 2 decades ago. I'm afraid it doesn't have long before it is unrecognizable as the truer collegiate sport it is today.
10-04-2013 10:39 AM
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