Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Dayton vs Big East
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
Milhouse08 Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 51
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 6
I Root For: X
Location:
Post: #21
RE: Dayton vs Big East
You do have to wonder if Butler would've been taken had Stevens left last year....He was bigger than the team.

X has seen continued Success and NCAA tournament runs in 4 straight coahces over the last 14 years.

I think we were the very very clear choice. Butler was as close to a #2 as possible.

Creighton did kind of baffle me a bit just because of the location and they haven't been to a sweet 16 in almost 40 years...but they do beat Dayton out when it comes to fan support. So if we're taking one team solely on fan support I guess creighton was that team.

Next team I want in is VCU. The X vs. VCU game was one of the most fun ones to watch even though we blew a 21 pt lead last year.
10-09-2013 08:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BigmanU Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 128
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 3
I Root For: Georgetown
Location:
Post: #22
RE: Dayton vs Big East
(10-09-2013 12:00 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I think where VCU gets in is 11/12. There is such a huge performance gap between VCU and any of the other schools being considered that the schools would look like provincial idiots if they don't take VCU just because they're public. VCU blows Dayton and Richmond away. Heck, they beat SLU even, but that's a moot point because SLU blows Dayton and Richmond away as well and should get in if it happens anytime soon.

No disrespect but, blowing away Dayton and Richmond is not a high benchmark for acceptance into the BEAST.
10-09-2013 09:46 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
LouPower Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 630
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 10
I Root For: Saint Louis
Location:
Post: #23
RE: Dayton vs Big East
VCU does not beat SLU. They did actually play each other.
10-09-2013 10:26 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Natty Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 143
Joined: Nov 2009
Reputation: 11
I Root For: VCU
Location:
Post: #24
RE: Dayton vs Big East
btw, I was being completely sarcastic when I mentioned VCU in this thread. Didn't expect it to actually turn into another VCU discussion.
10-09-2013 11:17 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
LouPower Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 630
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 10
I Root For: Saint Louis
Location:
Post: #25
RE: Dayton vs Big East
I tried to be as well. It didn't work.

This thread was about Dayton?
10-09-2013 11:33 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
VCUfan Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 428
Joined: Nov 2009
Reputation: 36
I Root For: VCU
Location:
Post: #26
RE: Dayton vs Big East
(10-09-2013 10:26 AM)LouPower Wrote:  VCU does not beat SLU. They did actually play each other.

I think he meant historically, not a 1-year window. Same reason Butler got in even though SLU beat them 3 times last year, handily.

Either way, it doesn't matter. SLU is the favorite because the fit in just about every conceivable way except for having a great basketball history.

None of the candidates really do in the grand scheme of things anyway.

You're talking about replacing schools like Syracuse, Louisville, UConn, and Pittsburgh with teams like SLU, Dayton, Richmond, and VCU. Either way it's a huge drop-off. None of those programs are comparable, even if they've had good teams recently.

It's easy to be defensive, but when you look at it like that, it's hard not to fault Big East fans for scoffing at our programs.
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2013 11:35 AM by VCUfan.)
10-09-2013 11:34 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
aughnanure Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 418
Joined: Dec 2012
Reputation: 16
I Root For: Marquette
Location:
Post: #27
RE: Dayton vs Big East
Hmm another non VCU thread becomes a VCU thread.

Shocking.
10-09-2013 12:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
LouPower Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 630
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 10
I Root For: Saint Louis
Location:
Post: #28
RE: Dayton vs Big East
(10-09-2013 11:34 AM)VCUfan Wrote:  
(10-09-2013 10:26 AM)LouPower Wrote:  VCU does not beat SLU. They did actually play each other.

I think he meant historically, not a 1-year window. Same reason Butler got in even though SLU beat them 3 times last year, handily.

Either way, it doesn't matter. SLU is the favorite because the fit in just about every conceivable way except for having a great basketball history.

None of the candidates really do in the grand scheme of things anyway.

You're talking about replacing schools like Syracuse, Louisville, UConn, and Pittsburgh with teams like SLU, Dayton, Richmond, and VCU. Either way it's a huge drop-off. None of those programs are comparable, even if they've had good teams recently.

It's easy to be defensive, but when you look at it like that, it's hard not to fault Big East fans for scoffing at our programs.

Just having fun with the premise of the thread. The Big East picked the teams they thought were best for them. Those of us not in may not agree, but it's what the presidents chose.
10-09-2013 12:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
VCUfan Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 428
Joined: Nov 2009
Reputation: 36
I Root For: VCU
Location:
Post: #29
RE: Dayton vs Big East
(10-09-2013 12:11 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  Hmm another non VCU thread becomes a VCU thread.

Shocking.

It happens. Not much talk going on over here so expansion talk is going to happen and as long as VCU is a candidate, you're going to have folks discussing VCU.

I know some of you may not like that, but it is what it is. Not sure why it should be so irritating. Maybe fans from other candidate schools could be more passionate and post here but there aren't many. I can only count 2-3 VCU fans that post here anyway. Other folks keep bringing up VCU for whatever reason.
10-09-2013 01:49 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
LouPower Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 630
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 10
I Root For: Saint Louis
Location:
Post: #30
RE: Dayton vs Big East
SLU fans other than me have more or less said "Wake us up when it happens".
10-09-2013 02:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Melky Cabrera Offline
Bill Bradley
*

Posts: 4,716
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 100
I Root For: UConn
Location:
Post: #31
RE: Dayton vs Big East
(10-08-2013 07:00 PM)Roader Wrote:  X has found a way every year to succeed, butler and creighton are going to have a harder time doing it year in and year out. I would have taken VCU over both

Butler has also found a way to succeed year in and year out. They were already successful before Stevens got there.
10-11-2013 03:57 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BigmanU Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 128
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 3
I Root For: Georgetown
Location:
Post: #32
RE: Dayton vs Big East
...
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2013 02:17 PM by BigmanU.)
10-11-2013 02:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Roader Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 68
Joined: Dec 2012
Reputation: 4
I Root For: Dayton
Location:
Post: #33
RE: Dayton vs Big East
(10-11-2013 03:57 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(10-08-2013 07:00 PM)Roader Wrote:  X has found a way every year to succeed, butler and creighton are going to have a harder time doing it year in and year out. I would have taken VCU over both

Butler has also found a way to succeed year in and year out. They were already successful before Stevens got there.

True they made it almost every year but in A weak horizon. VCu moved up to A10 and will still dominate. I just don't see butler doing a whole lot in the BE while VCu seems to be recruiting at a high level able to compete with the members at the top of both the A10 and BE. You can't compare horizon/CAA success with BE success but in my opinion (you don't have to agree) VCU would be better fit to strengthen BE in future
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2013 09:53 PM by Roader.)
10-11-2013 09:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Melky Cabrera Offline
Bill Bradley
*

Posts: 4,716
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 100
I Root For: UConn
Location:
Post: #34
RE: Dayton vs Big East
(10-11-2013 09:51 PM)Roader Wrote:  
(10-11-2013 03:57 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(10-08-2013 07:00 PM)Roader Wrote:  X has found a way every year to succeed, butler and creighton are going to have a harder time doing it year in and year out. I would have taken VCU over both

Butler has also found a way to succeed year in and year out. They were already successful before Stevens got there.

True they made it almost every year but in A weak horizon. VCu moved up to A10 and will still dominate. I just don't see butler doing a whole lot in the BE while VCu seems to be recruiting at a high level able to compete with the members at the top of both the A10 and BE. You can't compare horizon/CAA success with BE success but in my opinion (you don't have to agree) VCU would be better fit to strengthen BE in future

I agree that VCU's recruiting success is making their future look bright. But other than 2011, VCU has not yet done what Butler has to validate their success in a mid major conference. Other than the Final Four run, they haven't gotten beyond the 2nd round of the tournament.

Under Stevens, Butler proved that they were not just a mid major success story by going to back-to-back championship games. They did the same thing under his predecessor, Todd Licliter, by going to two Sweet 16's. Butler has had repeated success against national competition under two different coaches.
10-12-2013 12:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
VCUfan Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 428
Joined: Nov 2009
Reputation: 36
I Root For: VCU
Location:
Post: #35
RE: Dayton vs Big East
Agree, VCU might be better positioned right now, but Butler historically blows VCU away and was the right decision at the time, especially with Stevens.

You're adding programs not teams. Butler was the clear choice.
10-12-2013 07:39 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Roader Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 68
Joined: Dec 2012
Reputation: 4
I Root For: Dayton
Location:
Post: #36
RE: Dayton vs Big East
Sure butler success in the past is better but the BE (and every other conference) has to look at the future. Could Shaka leave and VCu fall apart yes. Will it happened with butler since Stevens left, maybe. Im just looking strictly at now and the next 5 years. I know what they both did the last 5 and butler blows most of NCAA teams out of the water but there near future i don't think will have the upside VCu has. I don't want this to turn into a pissing match about VCu, its just my opinion and i respectively disagree with yours.

Im glad you didn't take them as its a good game for ud if they can win
(This post was last modified: 10-12-2013 09:06 AM by Roader.)
10-12-2013 09:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Melky Cabrera Offline
Bill Bradley
*

Posts: 4,716
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 100
I Root For: UConn
Location:
Post: #37
RE: Dayton vs Big East
(10-12-2013 07:39 AM)VCUfan Wrote:  Agree, VCU might be better positioned right now, but Butler historically blows VCU away and was the right decision at the time, especially with Stevens.

You're adding programs not teams. Butler was the clear choice.

And VCU should be just as much the clear choice when they expand to 12. 04-cheers
10-12-2013 09:28 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Melky Cabrera Offline
Bill Bradley
*

Posts: 4,716
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 100
I Root For: UConn
Location:
Post: #38
RE: Dayton vs Big East
(10-12-2013 09:04 AM)Roader Wrote:  Sure butler success in the past is better but the BE (and every other conference) has to look at the future. Could Shaka leave and VCu fall apart yes. Will it happened with butler since Stevens left, maybe. Im just looking strictly at now and the next 5 years. I know what they both did the last 5 and butler blows most of NCAA teams out of the water but there near future i don't think will have the upside VCu has. I don't want this to turn into a pissing match about VCu, its just my opinion and i respectively disagree with yours.

Im glad you didn't take them as its a good game for ud if they can win

I respect your opinion and you may be right. I'll just explain further the way I look at it.

Butler's success has come over a series of 4 different coaches:

1. Barry Collier (1989-2000), now the AD, rejuvenated the program, getting them to 3 Horizon runner-up finishes and 2 NITs in the early '90's before leading them to 2 Horizon championships, 3 NCAA tournaments and a third NIT in the late '90's.

2. Thad Matta (2000-01), current Ohio State coach, got them another Horizon title and their first NCAA tournament win in their current era.

3. Todd Licliter (2001-07), named national Coach of the Year at Butler before leaving for Iowa, got them 3 more Horizon titles and 2 Sweet16's, a first in the current era.

4. Brad Stevens (2007-13) won 4 Horizon titles, got them to 5 NCAA tournaments and had 2 runs to the national championship game.

Clearly Butler has made a series of good coaching hires with each new coach building on what his predecessor(s) had done and advancing the program to a new level. The way I look at it, the Butler was not a Stevens creation and their success has not been just about him. Now maybe Brandon Miller will not work out. Anything is possible.

The way I look at it, Butler is the more established program because they have not must been hot for the past 5 years. They've gone to 11 NCAA tournaments over the past 17 years and 4 Sweet 16's over the past 11 including their 2 runs to the championship game, winning a total of 17 games in those NCAA appearances. If it didn't say "Butler" on their jerseys, no one would question that kind of track record.

Having said all of that, I agree with you that VCU is an outstanding program in its own right, and they are not just about Shaka either having made it to the tournament in each of the last 4 decades, beginning in 1980. They are the hot program right now, not just in terms of success on the court, and not just with a top coach, but also with successful recruiting and investments in infrastructure. Their addition to the Big East should be a no brainer.
(This post was last modified: 10-12-2013 10:00 AM by Melky Cabrera.)
10-12-2013 09:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Natty Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 143
Joined: Nov 2009
Reputation: 11
I Root For: VCU
Location:
Post: #39
RE: Dayton vs Big East
Here's a question related to this topic: Of the four likely candidates, who do you think has the highest ceiling if given an invite to the Big East?

Since the question here is really in strengthening the league, of the four likely candidates for those two spots, who do you think has the most national potential with a Big East invite? Isn't that who you want to ad? The goal is to KEEP the Big East as a power conference while earning as many NCAA units as possible. Also doesn't hurt to keep packing MSG come conference tournament time.

So who does all those things for the Big East?
10-13-2013 11:35 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
LouPower Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 630
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 10
I Root For: Saint Louis
Location:
Post: #40
RE: Dayton vs Big East
(10-13-2013 11:35 AM)Natty Wrote:  Here's a question related to this topic: Of the four likely candidates, who do you think has the highest ceiling if given an invite to the Big East?

Since the question here is really in strengthening the league, of the four likely candidates for those two spots, who do you think has the most national potential with a Big East invite? Isn't that who you want to ad? The goal is to KEEP the Big East as a power conference while earning as many NCAA units as possible. Also doesn't hurt to keep packing MSG come conference tournament time.

So who does all those things for the Big East?

Saint Louis and VCU.
10-13-2013 06:17 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.