Maybe we just need to change the focus. What's the NCAA's stand on abortion, same-sex marriage, and the war on Christmas?

(10-03-2013 10:36 AM)axeme Wrote:  Maybe we just need to change the focus. What's the NCAA's stand on abortion, same-sex marriage, and the war on Christmas?

Don't know but Charleston is one of my favorite cities so I'm good to go for a bowl game there.

I view it like Freedom of Speech. You are free to say what you want (within reason) but you are not free from any criticism regarding what you say. SC can fly the flag but has to deal with any fallout from it. Their choice.

(10-03-2013 12:44 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  I view it like Freedom of Speech. You are free to say what you want (within reason) but you are not free from any criticism regarding what you say. SC can fly the flag but has to deal with any fallout from it. Their choice.

Exactly. They feel that they want to make a point and they knew going in that it could lead to some closed doors. Did they expect this particular thing so long ago? Doubt it but now they have to decide if their message is worth the return messages they are getting back.

(10-02-2013 08:23 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Gentlemen,
I applaud the stand taken by the NCAA. If, South Carolina wants to fly the Confederate battle flag all over their State, that's their choice. They should be aware of the fact that it may hurt them economically, because of their take on that position.

Actual South Carolinian here. Allow me to inject some insight, as most not around SC don't know squat about the situation.

The controversy began over the "Confederate Flag" (which is actually the Confederate Naval Jack) being flown atop the State House. The state legislature voted to create a Civil War Monument and move the flag there. The monument is at the edge of the state house grounds. There are monuments to just about every other war you can think of at the edge of state house grounds as well. Even though the NAACP's stated goal was removal from of the flag from atop the State House, after it was voted to be moved to a monument on State House grounds they continued their boycott and protest over it still being on State House grounds, despite the fact that there is a memorial for every other war on State House grounds.

Okay there's the background. Now some points:

1) The NAACP's boycott is laughable. Drive around King's Highway in Myrtle Beach. Especially during Bike Week. Tons and tons and tons of black people everywhere. Hilton Head. Same story. Carowinds. Same story. If you can think of a tourist spot in SC ... you can bet your bottom dollar it isn't hurting at all.

2) I'm always amused when people from outside a New England metro or the midwest or fly over country looked shocked at the number of black people everywhere in SC. It's always amusing that those white people who crusade hardest for minority "equality" tend to be those who don't have a black person living within 10 miles of them. Or they're in a virtually white only gated community in or around a major metro. I run a very large Linux and Open Source Software conference in the South as well. Even really smart people who come to my event from places like Portland and Kansas City openly ask me "How do you get all these black people to show up for an event like this??" Like I did some special outreach program or something. I can only respond with "We actually have black people living here." I truly believe racism is a bigger problem in these virtually white only areas than it is in most of the South.

3) The NCAA is at best staggeringly incompetent at worst deliberately malicious when it comes to advancing the concept of the student athlete and keeping the playing field fair and level. The organization is rife with corruption, special treatment for big time football in the SEC, and an overzealous hammer for anybody who steps out of line who they don't feel threatened by. If we have a Division-4 created and the NCAA finds itself relegated to the new NAIA without March Madness, NIT, Bowl, BCS/Playoff, and CWS revenue ... it can look in the mirror when it wants to assign blame. Given this backdrop it is LUDICROUS the NCAA chooses to blatantly follow a political agenda.

4) Even if you somehow agree with the NCAA's policy IN THEORY, Clemson, South Carolina, USC Upstate, Furman, Wofford, Coastal Carolina, SC State, Winthrop, College of Charleston, The Citadel, Presbyterian, and Charleston Southern cannot magically teleport to another state or unilaterally change state policy. You are punishing not just those schools, but other schools in the region who might otherwise be able to play before their fans in the basketball or football post season. "Hey guys, we know you didn't do this, and may not even agree with it or what we're doing ... but because it is in your state/region ... GFY. Thanksssssss bye!"

Let's all just calm down.

(10-03-2013 02:27 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 12:44 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  I view it like Freedom of Speech. You are free to say what you want (within reason) but you are not free from any criticism regarding what you say. SC can fly the flag but has to deal with any fallout from it. Their choice.

Exactly. They feel that they want to make a point and they knew going in that it could lead to some closed doors. Did they expect this particular thing so long ago? Doubt it but now they have to decide if their message is worth the return messages they are getting back.

And you're exactly wrong.

If you don't want to go to SC, that's fine. No criticism. But the NCAA is preventing people from making their own decision. That's anti-choice BTW.

That's the issue. That's why every all these other comments are just straw men.

Universities are not independent contractors who are being deprived of a right to do business as they want. They are voluntarily part of the NCAA whom they have empowered to make exactly these kind of decisions for the whole organization. The NCAA is a business who has the right to make these decisions. You may not like them or their decisions--I don't--but they are not preventing anyone from making their own decisions: nobody has to be part of the NCAA. But it's usually smart for individual entities to band together to gain bargaining power, establish common rules, etc. Financially, many schools have benefited from their association with the NCAA even if they have disagreed with some of the policies.

No organization worth a crap allows everyone in it to make any decisions and policies they want. Is that the way you'd run a business? You wouldn't want to be "anti-choice"? Choices are for leaders and independent operators, not the members of a voluntary coalition.

Universities can choose to belong to the NCAA or not. Many universities are not. They can try to influence the group's decisions as they can. Personally, I think the NCAA is a corrupt and ethically bankrupt organization, but that's not the issue here. Don't have much regard for SC legislators either.

Wrong thread.

(10-03-2013 02:27 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 12:44 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  I view it like Freedom of Speech. You are free to say what you want (within reason) but you are not free from any criticism regarding what you say. SC can fly the flag but has to deal with any fallout from it. Their choice.

Exactly. They feel that they want to make a point and they knew going in that it could lead to some closed doors. Did they expect this particular thing so long ago? Doubt it but now they have to decide if their message is worth the return messages they are getting back.

It's heritage, not hate. Since when does the white left get to decide the meaning of the flag.