(10-02-2013 10:21 AM)GoNolzOhio Wrote:  The only current conference realignment question I have is whether, in the time prior to the GORs ending, will the Big 12 feel creeping need to expand by 2 for "aesthetics" reasons? That is, all the other big boy conferences are going to be running with football championship games going forward. Will the Big 12 start getting the feeling that they are getting left out of the buzz at the end of the season, that they aren't a major player without 12+ teams and a title game?

The AAC added for the sake of getting to 12. Navy... okay. Solid. But Tulsa? Luckily Tulsa allowed them to hit the magic number. Right now, the Big 12 shouldn't have a huge interest in the U_F schools. They are just consistently inconsistent programs with marginal followings. UC is the only school that has made a significant push in the past few years. I think Memphis has the next best shot, but they need to put a better product out there. I don't think BYU comes in part time, but it's possible.

If the SEC wants in Virginia and North Carolina. they will have to add East Carolina and Old Dominion.

(10-01-2013 09:48 PM)PhiladelphiaVT Wrote:  North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Virginia, and Virginia Tech are joined at the hip and they all like being in the ACC. Let me repeat that---they all LIKE being in the ACC. What's so hard to understand about that? Believe it or not, there really are some things more important than money. These six schools are within easy driving distance of one another and have been playing one another in sports for over 100-years.

Good points, up to a point. The only way those core schools leave the ACC is if the ACC becomes untenable, as it was in danger of becoming when FSU and Clemson were making noises about leaving. And "untenable" does have something to do with money. UNC surely prefers its little mid-Atlantic fiefdom in the ACC, but it wouldn't stand for being in a rump ACC that is no longer a Power conference.

Now that Clemson and FSU are solidly in the fold, don't expect those NC or VA schools to be lured to any other conference.

(10-02-2013 08:25 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 07:50 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Somebody should count the number of AAU schools before trying to act like the Little 10 is academically superior to anyone anymore.

SEC 4/14 28.57%
Big 12 3/10 30%

SEC West 1/7 14.29%

Bullet you are great at manipulating statistics you ought to work for the House budgeting committee. In reality school for school the SEC's overall academic standing is better than that of the Big 12. Percentage of AAU schools may be the only statistical measure you can claim. Total AAU schools, overall academic standing of the entire conference, composition of the schools in the conference with regards to their demographics all indicate the SEC's elevation of the present Big 12.

(10-02-2013 12:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 08:25 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 07:50 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Somebody should count the number of AAU schools before trying to act like the Little 10 is academically superior to anyone anymore.

SEC 4/14 28.57%
Big 12 3/10 30%

SEC West 1/7 14.29%

Bullet you are great at manipulating statistics you ought to work for the House budgeting committee. In reality school for school the SEC's overall academic standing is better than that of the Big 12. Percentage of AAU schools may be the only statistical measure you can claim. Total AAU schools, overall academic standing of the entire conference, composition of the schools in the conference with regards to their demographics all indicate the SEC's elevation of the present Big 12.

JR, you already know I hate the Big 12 but 10th was only referring to AAU schools. If he meant to add all rankings, he should have noted that. He didn't, bullets point is valid.

I also think its funny that 10th wants to downgrade our academics but Brazos County, home of a&m, voted overwhelmingly to keep Tech down. Texas is sponsoring Tech for AAU status which is more than aggies will ever do. Texas realizes that having Tech in the AAU is better for the state. A&m views it as a threat which I understand but he shouldn't ridicule Tech when its obvious we are trying to better ourselves.

(10-02-2013 12:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 08:25 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 07:50 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Somebody should count the number of AAU schools before trying to act like the Little 10 is academically superior to anyone anymore.

SEC 4/14 28.57%
Big 12 3/10 30%

SEC West 1/7 14.29%

Bullet you are great at manipulating statistics you ought to work for the House budgeting committee. In reality school for school the SEC's overall academic standing is better than that of the Big 12. Percentage of AAU schools may be the only statistical measure you can claim. Total AAU schools, overall academic standing of the entire conference, composition of the schools in the conference with regards to their demographics all indicate the SEC's elevation of the present Big 12.

The conferences look pretty similar academically by most measures. The key is the perception (fair or not) that the SEC and its boosters will cheat and cut corners more than other conferences and take the "athlete" part of student athlete less seriously. Not going to debate whether that perception is correct or not, but that is the perception in many places.

And A&M can't argue they moved to go to a stronger academic conference. Big 12 was 50% AAU when they left and SEC was 16.7% and is still on 28.57%.

(10-02-2013 02:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 12:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 08:25 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 07:50 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Somebody should count the number of AAU schools before trying to act like the Little 10 is academically superior to anyone anymore.

SEC 4/14 28.57%
Big 12 3/10 30%

SEC West 1/7 14.29%

Bullet you are great at manipulating statistics you ought to work for the House budgeting committee. In reality school for school the SEC's overall academic standing is better than that of the Big 12. Percentage of AAU schools may be the only statistical measure you can claim. Total AAU schools, overall academic standing of the entire conference, composition of the schools in the conference with regards to their demographics all indicate the SEC's elevation of the present Big 12.

The conferences look pretty similar academically by most measures. The key is the perception (fair or not) that the SEC and its boosters will cheat and cut corners more than other conferences and take the "athlete" part of student athlete less seriously. Not going to debate whether that perception is correct or not, but that is the perception in many places.

And A&M can't argue they moved to go to a stronger academic conference. Big 12 was 50% AAU when they left and SEC was 16.7% and is still on 28.57%.

Things aren't what they used to be, and aren't what they could be, they simply are what they are. The SEC may have many schools that aren't AAU but they are represented by a nice grouping of schools that are soundly top 100. We have some that aren't as well. I admit that the two conferences are very similar academically.

But, as far as recruiting perceptions go, as I have said before I traveled the Southeast for almost 20 years and was in position to observe recruiting practices by the SWC, the Big 8, the ACC, and the SEC. Only 1 program recruiting that region in that era was clean (as far as I could tell). That 1 apparently clean school was Bill Curry's Georgia Tech program. We had Nebraska, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Miami, all of the ACC (except I never remember running across Duke recruiting back then), all of the SEC (never ran acrosss Vanderbilt recruiting then either), Texas, Texas A&M, S.M.U., Arkansas, and Houston. And for all of those there was 1 apparently clean program. So based upon my personal observations when a former member of the SWC accuses the SEC of cheating that is the pot calling the kettle black. There are few differences in the recruiting practices of top programs and top conferences.

What I'm seeing today is that there are a few programs that are now hiding behind support within their state governments to accomplish some of the things they are doing. So all they have done is learn how to cover their activities in innovative ways. There are a few stellar students on most college football teams. But, there are many who are there in hopes of attracting the notice of professional scouts. Most talk about student athletes and the standards that schools employ for their athletes is just window dressing at best and hypocrisy at worst.

I was just responding to JML saying the Big 12 is academically superior to the SEC (and therefore UT wouldnt be caught dead in it)

Clearly that's incorrect since the academics of both leagues are similar but with the SEC holding an edge over the B12...which would play virtually zero amount in any UT decision regarding the SEC

Poor little guy was wrong again so he'll spend the rest of this thread trying to distract from it with strawman and ad hominem attacks rather than admit his error

So predictable

(10-02-2013 02:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 02:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 12:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 08:25 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 07:50 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Somebody should count the number of AAU schools before trying to act like the Little 10 is academically superior to anyone anymore.

SEC 4/14 28.57%
Big 12 3/10 30%

SEC West 1/7 14.29%

Bullet you are great at manipulating statistics you ought to work for the House budgeting committee. In reality school for school the SEC's overall academic standing is better than that of the Big 12. Percentage of AAU schools may be the only statistical measure you can claim. Total AAU schools, overall academic standing of the entire conference, composition of the schools in the conference with regards to their demographics all indicate the SEC's elevation of the present Big 12.

The conferences look pretty similar academically by most measures. The key is the perception (fair or not) that the SEC and its boosters will cheat and cut corners more than other conferences and take the "athlete" part of student athlete less seriously. Not going to debate whether that perception is correct or not, but that is the perception in many places.

And A&M can't argue they moved to go to a stronger academic conference. Big 12 was 50% AAU when they left and SEC was 16.7% and is still on 28.57%.

Things aren't what they used to be, and aren't what they could be, they simply are what they are. The SEC may have many schools that aren't AAU but they are represented by a nice grouping of schools that are soundly top 100. We have some that aren't as well. I admit that the two conferences are very similar academically.

But, as far as recruiting perceptions go, as I have said before I traveled the Southeast for almost 20 years and was in position to observe recruiting practices by the SWC, the Big 8, the ACC, and the SEC. Only 1 program recruiting that region in that era was clean (as far as I could tell). That 1 apparently clean school was Bill Curry's Georgia Tech program. We had Nebraska, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Miami, all of the ACC (except I never remember running across Duke recruiting back then), all of the SEC (never ran acrosss Vanderbilt recruiting then either), Texas, Texas A&M, S.M.U., Arkansas, and Houston. And for all of those there was 1 apparently clean program. So based upon my personal observations when a former member of the SWC accuses the SEC of cheating that is the pot calling the kettle black. There are few differences in the recruiting practices of top programs and top conferences.

What I'm seeing today is that there are a few programs that are now hiding behind support within their state governments to accomplish some of the things they are doing. So all they have done is learn how to cover their activities in innovative ways. There are a few stellar students on most college football teams. But, there are many who are there in hopes of attracting the notice of professional scouts. Most talk about student athletes and the standards that schools employ for their athletes is just window dressing at best and hypocrisy at worst.

SWC was pretty bad in the 80s. That is one of the things Texas wants to try to "control" in the Big 12. Nebraska complained about the prop 16(?)s. That was a nonstarter and was part of the deal when the Big 12 was put together that Nebraska tried to undo. The Big 12 voted 11-1 to limit the number you could have. Realistically, unless it was a really special case, those people had almost zero chance of graduating and should not have been at a 4 year school.

(10-02-2013 03:05 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I was just responding to JML saying the Big 12 is academically superior to the SEC (and therefore UT wouldnt be caught dead in it)

Clearly that's incorrect since the academics of both leagues are similar but with the SEC holding an edge over the B12...which would play virtually zero amount in any UT decision regarding the SEC

Poor little guy was wrong again so he'll spend the rest of this thread trying to distract from it with strawman and ad hominem attacks rather than admit his error

So predictable

No need for strawman attacks. The board knows you couldn't get into a&m a there is absolutely nothing wrong with stating the truth.

The simple truth is Texas will never join the SEC because they view a&m and the SEC as academically inferior. That is the simple truth and if it offends you, oh well.

That being said, if the SEC TV partners want Tech, TCU or even Baylor there isn't a thing you can do about it.

And there's the ad hominem right on time!

So predictable!

And your new schtick is hilarious! I'm shaking in fear that the SEC covets any of you 3 Stooges!

Bwahahaha!

I don't want any of the stooges being mentioned in Big 12 expansion but there isn't a thing I can do about it if our TV partners deem them worthy.

Same thing in the SEC, PAC, Big 10 and ACC. Texas is a valuable state with 26mm people and money drives folks to do things they normally wouldn't do.

Well you give me a holler the moment Slive's private jet land in Lubbock! :D

(10-02-2013 08:25 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 07:50 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Somebody should count the number of AAU schools before trying to act like the Little 10 is academically superior to anyone anymore.

SEC 4/14 28.57%
Big 12 3/10 30%

SEC West 1/7 14.29%

Right, and if Texas would move to the SEC, then the SEC's numbers go way up. This could have a landslide effect. Once Texas joins, maybe North Carolina, virginia, FSU, oklahoma, kansas may all want to join.

(10-02-2013 07:44 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 08:25 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 07:50 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Somebody should count the number of AAU schools before trying to act like the Little 10 is academically superior to anyone anymore.

SEC 4/14 28.57%
Big 12 3/10 30%

SEC West 1/7 14.29%

Right, and if Texas would move to the SEC, then the SEC's numbers go way up. This could have a landslide effect. Once Texas joins, maybe North Carolina, virginia, FSU, oklahoma, kansas may all want to join.

Texas isn't joining the SEC. You got to brush up on how important Cultural Considerations are on these possibilities. There is no way the Massive Ego's in Austin allow themselves to appear to be following in Texas A&M's footsteps.

I hope Slive never lands in Lubbock but if TV deems Tech as a worthy Texas SEC addition, so be it. That being said, I have no desire to go to the SEC or aggyland ( once is enough, twice is a beatdown even when Tech wins, 3 times and its the same ole follow the leader, milk the cow and grab the juevos) again and I honestly would rather play schools in the PAC.

(10-02-2013 07:49 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 07:44 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 08:25 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 07:50 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Somebody should count the number of AAU schools before trying to act like the Little 10 is academically superior to anyone anymore.

SEC 4/14 28.57%
Big 12 3/10 30%

SEC West 1/7 14.29%

Right, and if Texas would move to the SEC, then the SEC's numbers go way up. This could have a landslide effect. Once Texas joins, maybe North Carolina, virginia, FSU, oklahoma, kansas may all want to join.

Texas isn't joining the SEC. You got to brush up on how important Cultural Considerations are on these possibilities. There is no way the Massive Ego's in Austin allow themselves to appear to be following in Texas A&M's footsteps.

H1 gets it. Texas will NEVER stoop to a&m's level. Some people get it and others don't.

If anything, Texas will go independent in football and try to snag a scheduling deal like ND.

(10-02-2013 07:44 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 08:25 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 07:50 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Somebody should count the number of AAU schools before trying to act like the Little 10 is academically superior to anyone anymore.

SEC 4/14 28.57%
Big 12 3/10 30%

SEC West 1/7 14.29%

Right, and if Texas would move to the SEC, then the SEC's numbers go way up. This could have a landslide effect. Once Texas joins, maybe North Carolina, virginia, FSU, oklahoma, kansas may all want to join.

Yes, and so would VT, Clemson and GT. And Miami and everyone else.

UNC with UVA would cause the same landslide.

I'm literally holding my breath in anticipation that TV tells Slive "you HAVE to add Texas Tech"

UTSA will be in the Little 10 long before that ever happens