I was no Beckman fan...

But he is looking pretty darn good right now.

Campbell was conidered the worst hire in America by some media outlets. Not saying he is or he isn't, but I think he is definitely wet behind the ears.

I don't like watching anybody cut their teeth with (arguably) the best program with most consistent fan support and best facilities in the MAC.

Anyways, the real point was, Campbell ain't no Beckman!

Not sure about that. Our defense used to give up 60 per game. Campbell was begging for a TO while Beckman thought his defense that had given up 6million yards in the game would get a stop. All coaches look bad at times, but Campbell is better. I do wish he would call offensive game.

(09-28-2013 09:42 PM)owen Wrote:  I was no Beckman fan...

But he is looking pretty darn good right now.

Campbell was conidered the worst hire in America by some media outlets. Not saying he is or he isn't, but I think he is definitely wet behind the ears.

I don't like watching anybody cut their teeth with (arguably) the best program with most consistent fan support and best facilities in the MAC.

Anyways, the real point was, Campbell ain't no Beckman!

He is over his head without question. An experienced coach would have flourished with the talent this year. Way too many young inexperiences coaches on the staff.

Find the Handle, or fire Candle...

Toledo does not arguably have the best program in the MAC.

(09-28-2013 10:12 PM)DSV27 Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 09:42 PM)owen Wrote:  I was no Beckman fan...

But he is looking pretty darn good right now.

Campbell was conidered the worst hire in America by some media outlets. Not saying he is or he isn't, but I think he is definitely wet behind the ears.

I don't like watching anybody cut their teeth with (arguably) the best program with most consistent fan support and best facilities in the MAC.

Anyways, the real point was, Campbell ain't no Beckman!

He is over his head without question. An experienced coach would have flourished with the talent this year. Way too many young inexperiences coaches on the staff.

I have no way of knowing what is discussed in coaches' meetings and have no idea how practices go, but I have a couple of thoughts.

If I were MOB, I would be having a meeting with Campbell to discuss the concerns with the football program with him.

I would address the following from today's game: the PI penalties, Reedy's second unsportsmanlike conduct penalty of the season, and the unproductive play of the offense. In interviews, he is personally shouldering the blame for most of those things, which is understandable as the leader to take the fall publicly. However, I would ask him who he is holding accountable privately for those issues with the answer not allowed to be him. In the interviews he talks in terms such as "I need to better coach my players, etc." but he has all these position coaches that should be doing that. I may be way off base but I think his buddy is the offensive coordinator and it may not be easy to make the necessary changes in that position because of relationships. Is that why we are continuing to see the same struggling offense this year that we saw last year? Is he holding himself accountable but not his assistants? Is he the one out there personally correcting the DBs, Reedy, etc. or is that just talk for the public?

I feel we have a ton of talent on the team and only Coaches Tuke, Ayeni, Watson, and Rasheed know how to utilize and prepare them for games. Unfortunately, the others are putting these coaches in bad situations.

I have faith that Campbell can be a really good HC but I think that is going to be dependent upon whether or not he keeps his current OC as his OC (who happens to also be the WR coach...ie dropsies and unsportsmanlike conduct penalties). Maybe WR Coach/Recruiting Extraordinaire would be a better fit and the staff gets an OC with experience?

(09-28-2013 11:47 PM)7 Wrote:  Toledo does not arguably have the best program in the MAC.

Yeah, you're probably right. We can't even argue it.

I wonder if the people from this thread still want to "puke" over all this coaching criticism...

(09-28-2013 10:10 PM)tolfbfan Wrote:  Not sure about that. Our defense used to give up 60 per game. Campbell was begging for a TO while Beckman thought his defense that had given up 6million yards in the game would get a stop. All coaches look bad at times, but Campbell is better. I do wish he would call offensive game.

This.

(09-28-2013 11:47 PM)7 Wrote:  Toledo does not arguably have the best program in the MAC.

You realize, of course, that by making this statement you prove the very hypothesis you reject.

(09-29-2013 05:44 AM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  I wonder if the people from this thread still want to "puke" over all this coaching criticism...

Compared to Beckman -hell yes! How soon people on this board forget looking totally unprepared, losing to a winless Miami U team that was arguably the worst team in the nation, horrible clock management in the 63-60 GB loss to NIU, or how about the FIU Bowl loss where you're beating the piss out of the opponent at halftime but you let them back in the game because you've haven't changed your signals(even when Tressel tells you OSU was stealing them the season before) and an ex-coordinator is reading every tendency. Oh please! The Rockets's last MAC title in 2004 was won with 1 Conference loss amd Bruce G's Sr year, when UT beat UTEP in the GMAC Bowl, there were losses to NIU and @CMU. Yes, UT is underperforming Offensively and the Defense did not get enough pressure on Wenning nor get a stop on BSU's last scoring drive. 31 points is still too much to give up and expect to win.
Not giving up yet on this season, especially when UT has been on the road, 5 of the first 6 games.

I still think that Campbell was the right choice at that time (and in some regards was an upgrade over Beckman), just a Stutz was the right choice when Pinkel left.

Both Stutz and Campbell were highly successful coordinators who knew the program well with regards to players and recruits and thus offered the best case for continuity and maintaining the positive momentum of a successful program at the times of their respective hires.

The Peter Principal is very much at work in college football in that being a highly successful OC or DC does not necessarily guarantee a person will also be a highly successful head coach (because that requires different skill sets) but it does guarantee that they will be an attractive candidate for a head coaching job.

The fact that in the end Stutz could not maintain the program's upward momentum for whatever reasons does not necessarily mean that Campbell is destined to follow the same path just because they both traveled a similar path to the head coaching position.

(09-29-2013 06:55 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 05:44 AM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  I wonder if the people from this thread still want to "puke" over all this coaching criticism...

Compared to Beckman -hell yes! How soon people on this board forget looking totally unprepared, losing to a winless Miami U team that was arguably the worst team in the nation, horrible clock management in the 63-60 GB loss to NIU, or how about the FIU Bowl loss where you're beating the piss out of the opponent at halftime but you let them back in the game because you've haven't changed your signals(even when Tressel tells you OSU was stealing them the season before) and an ex-coordinator is reading every tendency. Oh please! The Rockets's last MAC title in 2004 was won with 1 Conference loss amd Bruce G's Sr year, when UT beat UTEP in the GMAC Bowl, there were losses to NIU and @CMU. Yes, UT is underperforming Offensively and the Defense did not get enough pressure on Wenning nor get a stop on BSU's last scoring drive. 31 points is still too much to give up and expect to win.
Not giving up yet on this season, especially when UT has been on the road, 5 of the first 6 games.

Yeah, I recall much dancing in the streets when Beckman left in spite of his remarkable efforts in turning the PROGRAM around. As far as being a GAME DAY coach, well, I was one of the dancers. Campbell is still learning but he's done pretty well and in this case you can't say "Well, he's doing it with Beckman's players" because he recruited a lot of these guys. Having said that, I was pretty disappointed in yesterday's performance. Can't understand our lack of offense.

I don't know a whole lot about Campbell. I know he is a good recruiter (according to websites) and IMO he's probably better than Beckman at coaching.

However, have you guys ever thought that other teams are capable of being better than the rockets? You guys always claim that you get the best recruits and have the most talent in the MAC, but right now, I think Toledo is the 5th best team in the conference.

It is never fun to watch a team you love not live up to your standards, but you can't always be on top. After Lynch leaves NIU, I'm certain NIU won't be dominant anymore, that's something I will have to live with. I suggest you look at these Rockets and ask if they are as good as you think they are and then lay some blame on the guys playing on the turf as opposed to a guy walking the sidelines.

(09-29-2013 08:31 AM)HuskieJWN Wrote:  I don't know a whole lot about Campbell. I know he is a good recruiter (according to websites) and IMO he's probably better than Beckman at coaching.

However, have you guys ever thought that other teams are capable of being better than the rockets? You guys always claim that you get the best recruits and have the most talent in the MAC, but right now, I think Toledo is the 5th best team in the conference.

It is never fun to watch a team you love not live up to your standards, but you can't always be on top. After Lynch leaves NIU, I'm certain NIU won't be dominant anymore, that's something I will have to live with. I suggest you look at these Rockets and ask if they are as good as you think they are and then lay some blame on the guys playing on the turf as opposed to a guy walking the sidelines.

One of the problems is the amount of attrition out of the 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes.

(09-29-2013 08:45 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 08:31 AM)HuskieJWN Wrote:  I don't know a whole lot about Campbell. I know he is a good recruiter (according to websites) and IMO he's probably better than Beckman at coaching.

However, have you guys ever thought that other teams are capable of being better than the rockets? You guys always claim that you get the best recruits and have the most talent in the MAC, but right now, I think Toledo is the 5th best team in the conference.

It is never fun to watch a team you love not live up to your standards, but you can't always be on top. After Lynch leaves NIU, I'm certain NIU won't be dominant anymore, that's something I will have to live with. I suggest you look at these Rockets and ask if they are as good as you think they are and then lay some blame on the guys playing on the turf as opposed to a guy walking the sidelines.

One of the problems is the amount of attrition out of the 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes.

That may be true, but every team loses recruits and have people leave campus. I'm not sure that disproves anything I am saying or anything the people before me said.

Agree with the overwhelming disappointment expressed on the thread. That was a winnable game IMHO. Some random thoughts on the topic...Tom Amstutz said that one of the better pieces of advice he got from a number of mentors when he got the Toledo job was DONT HIRE FRIENDS...MC is very young and at that time in your life you tend to trust friendships a lot...might not be a wise move for head coaches...Bernard Reedy should have been benched, period. Whether or not he was the victim or the guilty party, he should know better. It is becoming harder and harder to see us dominate the recruiting and not win on the field. It is one thing to get the talent and a totally different thing to get them to perform. Coaching might be one of the toughest jobs one can have. Most everything you do is open to public scrutiny by people who know little about what is actually involved. You are letting 18 year old males run around with YOUR paycheck in their mouths. Very few coaches ever go without getting fired. Lets hope we get a break and BSU gets beat twice and we can get one from NIU this year. You never know. Go Rockets.

The problem this season is the offense. The D is the best we've had overall in a few seasons, even with a secondary that has struggled. The d has played well enough to keep all 3 losses in play. If the offense was more effective as a unit/whole we would have had 1 maybe even 2 more wins. Coach needs to figure out if its coaching, play calling, talent/ability, physical/health issues or attitude/mental prep and take whatever actions are required as a result...even if that means some new staff next season, calling plays himself the rest of this season, and/or trying new sets and players. How he responds will dictate his success.

Campbell is doing a good job, players believe in him and respect the system. Yea they make stupid plays/ decisions at times but they are 18 -22 year olds. Beckman was a good at selling the kool aid, he promised every recruit they would start, lied about scholarships and put kids in bad situations, that is why they left Toledo. Golesh was even worst. I would like to see Coach Lou call plays for the offense. Can't blame coaches when our DB's don't turn and look for the ball, that is taught early on, way to many penalites. BSU had a good QB and we didn't find a way to pressure him. We had our chances and didn't capitalize on them. And yes there were bad calls.

(09-28-2013 11:47 PM)7 Wrote:  Toledo does not arguably have the best program in the MAC.

make an argument to contrary and i'll listen
But I meant athletic department. Wasn't really a totally football centric point.