(09-28-2013 08:25 PM)niubrad00 Wrote:  And why would we leave the MAC to go to a crappier conference?

There's a crappier conference?

(09-29-2013 01:55 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  NIU might be a replacement school if we get raided. They are not an expansion "target"

If we expand the current group to 14, it's Army & Air Force or nothing.

Without a western wing Air Force is probably never goings happen. Thus, I could see a situation where Army decides they want in and we need a 14th member. My guess, with Army being in the northeast--the 14th would be more western and likely southern. S Miss has attendance in the 25-35K range, but not much of a budget. Rice has good academics, some history, a reasonable budget--but duplicates a markt and offers little in the way of attendance. NIU, UTSA, ODU, and Texas State are programs worth keeping an eye on.

(09-28-2013 10:43 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 10:37 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 10:36 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 04:05 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 01:58 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Why not add Northern Illinois to the list of potential AAC expansion candidates. They fit the profile of the conference. A large "directional" school close to a major market. (Chicago) A solid football history with a BCS appearance last year and another BCS buster run going this year. Only negative would be they have a wrestling team.... But seriously, if UMASS, Buffalo, Southern Miss ect. are being mentioned as well as "city-state" schools from as far away as California, why not Northern Illinois?

No.

I live in Chicago and DeKalb is no where near Chicago. It is something like 70 or 80 miles west of Chicago, unless you are trying to get into that Iowa market; then the answer should be no. Btw I saw their game against FCS Eastern Illinois last week using ESPN3; they almost lost the game, but no one would have known, because they would have been lucky to have 20,000 people there and 25% of that number was probably Eastern fans.

Lol..all kinds of inaccuracies in that last post.

State them.

DeKalb is 60 miles from the city. The EIU game had an attendance of 24000. You don't know jack about where you live now son.

Not being critical of any program, but my opinion is that if you polled most fans that live outside the midwest, they would have to think a relatively long time before they identify who EIU is. I realize the no one is proposing adding them, but in my opinion, even referring to "EIU" demonstrates a unique mindset that exists within the MAC.

(09-29-2013 11:56 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 10:43 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 10:37 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 10:36 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 04:05 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  No.

I live in Chicago and DeKalb is no where near Chicago. It is something like 70 or 80 miles west of Chicago, unless you are trying to get into that Iowa market; then the answer should be no. Btw I saw their game against FCS Eastern Illinois last week using ESPN3; they almost lost the game, but no one would have known, because they would have been lucky to have 20,000 people there and 25% of that number was probably Eastern fans.

Lol..all kinds of inaccuracies in that last post.

State them.

DeKalb is 60 miles from the city. The EIU game had an attendance of 24000. You don't know jack about where you live now son.

Not being critical of any program, but my opinion is that if you polled most fans that live outside the midwest, they would have to think a relatively long time before they identify who EIU is. I realize the no one is proposing adding them, but in my opinion, even referring to "EIU" demonstrates a unique mindset that exists within the MAC.

huh?Mindset? nobody in the MAC knows who EIU is either, its an FCS school.

Its funny that there's so much scrutiny over a team that is 23rd in the FBS in total wins over the last 10 seasons, but teams like Buffalo (14 years in FBS, 1 winning season) and UMass (1-15 in FBS) are given consideration.

but no worries, NIU isn't going anywhere.

(09-30-2013 12:04 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 11:56 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 10:43 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 10:37 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 10:36 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  Lol..all kinds of inaccuracies in that last post.

State them.

DeKalb is 60 miles from the city. The EIU game had an attendance of 24000. You don't know jack about where you live now son.

Not being critical of any program, but my opinion is that if you polled most fans that live outside the midwest, they would have to think a relatively long time before they identify who EIU is. I realize the no one is proposing adding them, but in my opinion, even referring to "EIU" demonstrates a unique mindset that exists within the MAC.

huh?Mindset? nobody in the MAC knows who EIU is either, its an FCS school.

Its funny that there's so much scrutiny over a team that is 23rd in the FBS in total wins over the last 10 seasons, but teams like Buffalo (14 years in FBS, 1 winning season) and UMass (1-15 in FBS) are given consideration.

but no worries, NIU isn't going anywhere.

Fair enough on the bolded comment. I thought that the "EIU" reference came from a MAC fan, but obviously I was mistaken.

I don't believe that the vast majority of AAC fans have an interest in Buffalo or UMASS either.

Outside of Air Force, Army, a strong, stable/acceptable western presence, and potentially a righted USM situation; I don't think that there's not a lot of expansion situations that would stir much interest.

(09-29-2013 08:24 PM)sfink16 Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 08:14 PM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  yep access bowl will be based on SoS and rankings and AAC champ in most years should be higher than NIU who schedules cupcakes and plays in the MAC. No fan base = no addition period end of story. We have enough teams in this conference who have no fans. Perception is reality, if we all had sold out 45K+ stadiums I assure you our TV contract wouldn't have been as dismal as it was.

Fact is you can't deny that if we had 10 teams all averaging 55-60K we would get paid period.

I can't believe that I'm defending NIU but I must when the facts are incorrect. Their OOC schedule is on par with most G5 teams. This year they play Iowa and Purdue. Next year they play 3 P5 teams in Wake Forest, Northwestern, and Arkansas with all on the road. They also have Ohio State and Nebraska (4 games) scheduled on the road. As for Purdue sucking this year, you never know that when they make future schedules.

I wholeheartedly agree on virtually everything else and truly wish we could boast such attendance numbers.

Difference is the P5 teams make up SoS in conference when NIU is busy playing 8-9 of the worst teams in the country. Sure, they might have a couple crap P5 teams on their schedule, but even if they do schedule good ones their SoS plummets once they hit conference play.

On top of that they are coming off a BCS bowl appearance and still can't average more than 20K. They are peaked out at 20K. Why would we want anything to do with a program that peaks at 20K fans?

(09-30-2013 12:28 AM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(09-30-2013 12:04 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 11:56 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 10:43 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 10:37 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  State them.

DeKalb is 60 miles from the city. The EIU game had an attendance of 24000. You don't know jack about where you live now son.

Not being critical of any program, but my opinion is that if you polled most fans that live outside the midwest, they would have to think a relatively long time before they identify who EIU is. I realize the no one is proposing adding them, but in my opinion, even referring to "EIU" demonstrates a unique mindset that exists within the MAC.

huh?Mindset? nobody in the MAC knows who EIU is either, its an FCS school.

Its funny that there's so much scrutiny over a team that is 23rd in the FBS in total wins over the last 10 seasons, but teams like Buffalo (14 years in FBS, 1 winning season) and UMass (1-15 in FBS) are given consideration.

but no worries, NIU isn't going anywhere.

Fair enough on the bolded comment. I thought that the "EIU" reference came from a MAC fan, but obviously I was mistaken.

I don't believe that the vast majority of AAC fans have an interest in Buffalo or UMASS either.

Outside of Air Force, Army, a strong, stable/acceptable western presence, and potentially a righted USM situation; I don't think that there's not a lot of expansion situations that would stir much interest.

memphis is the only one mentioning USM and maybe some old school ECU fans. No one else gives 2 craps about USM.

(09-30-2013 10:05 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  memphis is the only one mentioning USM and maybe some old school ECU fans. No one else gives 2 craps about USM.

This Memphis fan recommends Army, Air Force (if possible) and/or UMass (mainly for basketball).

(09-29-2013 09:05 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  They said the same thing going during the BCS time but removed most of it because going with SOS so highly did not give the end results that they wanted. I will believe high SOS being a real component when I see it.

That's not exactly true. In terms of why they changed it. What happened was the original BCS formula, which equally weighted both human polls and six computer polls, in addition to having a separate SOS component, essentially made SOS the most important part of the equation. From Wikipedia:

Wikipedia Wrote:The BCS formula calculated the top 25 teams in poll format. After combining a number of factors, a final point total was created and the teams that received the 25 lowest scores were ranked in descending order. The factors were:

• *Poll average: Both the AP and ESPN-USA Today coaches polls were averaged to make a number which is the poll average.
  
  *Computer average: An average of the rankings of a team in three different computer polls were gathered (Jeff Sagarin/USA Today, Anderson-Hester/Seattle Times, and New York Times), with a 50% adjusted maximum deviation factor. (For instance, if the computers had ranked a team third, fifth, and twelfth, the poll which ranked the team twelfth would be adjusted to rank the team sixth.)
  
  *Strength of Schedule: This was the team's NCAA rank in strength of schedule divided by 25. A team's strength of schedule was calculated by win/loss record of opponents (66.6%) and cumulative win/loss record of team's opponents' opponents (33.3%). The team who played the toughest schedule was given .04 points, second toughest .08 points, and so on.

Margin of victory is a key component in the decision of the computer rankings to determine the BCS standings.

• *Losses: One point was added for every loss the team has suffered during the season. All games are counted, including Kickoff Classics and conference title games.

Before the 1999–2000 season, five more computer rankings were added to the system: Richard Billingsley, Richard Dunkel, Kenneth Massey, Herman Matthews/Scripps Howard, and David Rothman. The lowest ranking was dropped and the remainder averaged.

It then goes on to explain how the foumula evolved. Anyone there were a lot of problems with the initial formula, but the biggest one is that every poll, human or computer, has a SOS component to it. In addition there was a separate SOS component added. What ended up happening was the SOS became more important than anything else, and you had teams with bad records near the top of the rankings due to SOS.

Now I will give you that the BCS formula was designed to counteract claims that the media polls were biased, and that it is true that every time the BCS number 1 and 2 did not match the media poll 1 and 2, the formula was changed. That is valid, and something I do mention on occasion. But it wasn't without merit, as they simply had to fix the flaws. First the SOS was too important. Then they added multiple computer rankings and weighted them evenly with media polls, which made SOS and margin of victory too important, causing teams to really run up the score. Then they tried to balance it out, and made the computer component and SOS probably a bit too weak and the media component too strong, hence the run of SEC teams in the BCS title game. And while tweaks to the formula could have been made to improve it, I do think that of the various incarnations of the formula, it is probably the best one we have had (well at least before the AP poll was switched out for the Harris).

I'd have probably preferred to see a basketball style RPI component* added (see below) which would actually favor smaller schools and help scale down the media polls impact (new formula would be 30% Coaches, 30% Harris, 30% computer 10% RPI) but I think this is still better than the previous versions that made SOS most important, regardless of result, or ones that encouraged beating the living piss out of teams.


* RPI in basketball
The current and commonly used formula for determining the RPI of a college basketball team at any given time is as follows.

RPI = (WP * 0.25) + (OWP * 0.50) + (OOWP * 0.25)

where WP is Winning Percentage, OWP is Opponents' Winning Percentage and OOWP is Opponents' Opponents' Winning Percentage.

The WP is calculated by taking a team's wins divided by the number of games it has played (i.e. wins plus losses).

For Division 1 NCAA Men's basketball, the WP factor of the RPI was updated in 2004 to account for differences in home, away, and neutral games. A home win now counts as 0.6 win, while a road win counts as 1.4 wins. Inversely, a home loss equals 1.4 losses, while a road loss counts as 0.6 loss. A neutral game counts as 1 win or 1 loss. This change was based on statistical data that consistently showed home teams in Division I basketball winning about two-thirds of the time.[2] Note that this location adjustment applies only to the WP factor and not the OWP and OOWP factors. Only games against Division 1 teams are included for all RPI factors. As an example, if a team loses to Syracuse at home, beats them away, and then loses to Cincinnati away, their record would be 1-2. Considering the weighted aspect of the WP, their winning percentage is 1.4 / (1.4 + 1.4 + 0.6) = 0.4117

The OWP is calculated by taking the average of the WP's for each of the team's opponents with the requirement that all games against the team in question are removed from the calculation. Continuing from the example above, assume Syracuse has played one other game and lost, while Cincinnati has played two other teams and won. The team in question has played Syracuse twice and therefore must be counted twice. Thus the OWP of the team is (0/1 + 0/1 + 2/2) / 3 (number of opponents - Syracuse, Syracuse, Cincinnati). OWP = 0.3333

The OOWP is calculated by taking the average of each Opponent's OWP. Note that the team in question is part of the team's OOWP. In fact, the most re-occurring opponent of your opponents is the team in question.

(09-28-2013 04:05 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 01:58 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Why not add Northern Illinois to the list of potential AAC expansion candidates. They fit the profile of the conference. A large "directional" school close to a major market. (Chicago) A solid football history with a BCS appearance last year and another BCS buster run going this year. Only negative would be they have a wrestling team.... But seriously, if UMASS, Buffalo, Southern Miss ect. are being mentioned as well as "city-state" schools from as far away as California, why not Northern Illinois?

No.

I live in Chicago and DeKalb is no where near Chicago. It is something like 70 or 80 miles west of Chicago, unless you are trying to get into that Iowa market; then the answer should be no. Btw I saw their game against FCS Eastern Illinois last week using ESPN3; they almost lost the game, but no one would have known, because they would have been lucky to have 20,000 people there and 25% of that number was probably Eastern fans.

I live in between O'Hare and DeKalb. So I am 20 miles from O'Hare and 20 miles from DeKalb.

Northern Illinois could be considered an ex-burb (It is the equivalent to Greenville claiming to be part of Raleigh's market.). I don't think a train extends from DeKalb/Sycamore to Chicago.

NIU's challenge is attendance. Winning or not, NIU draws so few fans.
It is unbelievable that a school with so many students cannot draw fans.

Quote:Andy Tavegia, the sports editor of The Times in Ottawa and a Northern Illinois alum, said this week, “I’m a big opponent of the weekday games. It kills the atmosphere and kills attendance. I understand why it exists since ESPN pays the league a ton of money for the broadcast rights, but take a look at the attendance numbers for late-season MAC games. They are awful. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/12/27/w...in-dekalb/

Andy's quote is right and wrong. Andy's right- NIU gets two late season weekday home games on national television. Andy's wrong- ESPN does not pay the MAC a lot of money.

If locals will not support NIU basketball, I wonder if the Huskies could try some home games in Hoffman Estates at the Sears Arena and near their Hoffman building (graduate school). (Guessing, Hoffman Estates is 10 miles from O'Hare.)

(09-30-2013 10:04 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 08:24 PM)sfink16 Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 08:14 PM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  yep access bowl will be based on SoS and rankings and AAC champ in most years should be higher than NIU who schedules cupcakes and plays in the MAC. No fan base = no addition period end of story. We have enough teams in this conference who have no fans. Perception is reality, if we all had sold out 45K+ stadiums I assure you our TV contract wouldn't have been as dismal as it was.

Fact is you can't deny that if we had 10 teams all averaging 55-60K we would get paid period.

I can't believe that I'm defending NIU but I must when the facts are incorrect. Their OOC schedule is on par with most G5 teams. This year they play Iowa and Purdue. Next year they play 3 P5 teams in Wake Forest, Northwestern, and Arkansas with all on the road. They also have Ohio State and Nebraska (4 games) scheduled on the road. As for Purdue sucking this year, you never know that when they make future schedules.

I wholeheartedly agree on virtually everything else and truly wish we could boast such attendance numbers.

Difference is the P5 teams make up SoS in conference when NIU is busy playing 8-9 of the worst teams in the country. Sure, they might have a couple crap P5 teams on their schedule, but even if they do schedule good ones their SoS plummets once they hit conference play.

On top of that they are coming off a BCS bowl appearance and still can't average more than 20K. They are peaked out at 20K. Why would we want anything to do with a program that peaks at 20K fans?

I find this so difficult when facts are misrepresented that I feel obligated to reply. Again you tell the truth until you wind up completely fabricating the truth.

The MAC had 7 teams bowl eligable and invited last year:

http://www.mac-sports.com/tabid/969/Arti...vites.aspx

I hardly call

NIU 12 and 1
Kent State 11 and 2
Toledo 9 and 3
Ball State 9 and 3
Bowling Green 8 and 4
Ohio 8 and 4

the 8 or 9 worst teams in FBS. That's with scheduling P5 teams! Is it a great conference? Of course not. But there are teams in the conference capable of competing, not just NIU.

When you mention attendance and other variables, I can't argue with that. But on the field, they perform at a G5 level without a doubt.

(09-29-2013 07:46 PM)Brian Reading Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 07:30 PM)sfink16 Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 11:36 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  gawd no to any of those you mentioned. NIU has no fan and no fan base. Umass buffalo and USM are not real contenders to join the conference. From here on out if you don't average 35K and at least 6 wins per season please do not bring that team up for discussion.

While I agree on the fact that NIU has too small of a fan base and doesn't draw nearly enough, if they continue to win, they do provide potentially access bowl money to any conference they are in.

Conference realignment is not about short-term benefit. NIU must provide at least acceptable attendance, respect, etc. even in an off season to be purposeful. This just isn't going to happen, and nobody wins forever. For this reason, and mark my words, even the Big 12 will regret taking TCU in the long run.

NIU has hope. They need an athletic department and budget that taps the extended local market. NIU could learn a lot from East Carolina and how ECU claimed the eastern part of the state.

NIU has a lot of alumni in the Chicago area. Properly motivated, NIU could support 45,000 seat stadium.

(09-29-2013 11:36 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 01:58 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Why not add Northern Illinois to the list of potential AAC expansion candidates. They fit the profile of the conference. A large "directional" school close to a major market. (Chicago) A solid football history with a BCS appearance last year and another BCS buster run going this year. Only negative would be they have a wrestling team.... But seriously, if UMASS, Buffalo, Southern Miss ect. are being mentioned as well as "city-state" schools from as far away as California, why not Northern Illinois?

gawd no to any of those you mentioned. NIU has no fan and no fan base. Umass buffalo and USM are not real contenders to join the conference. From here on out if you don't average 35K and at least 6 wins per season please do not bring that team up for discussion.

OK. I'll agree with you and oblige, but then why do so many--i thought you too--think San Diego St is a good get for the AAC then? SDSU doesn't own their own stadium and has had only 3 winning seasons over the past 20 years. Their (padded) attendance isn't very good either unless you count the bcs schools that go there for away games, BYU-lot of Mormon fans in San Diego-, and the Air Force game. (they put on a special air show that brings in a huge crowd) Plus, SDSU is a city-state school with weak academics that's a million miles further than the other candidates mentioned above. Why is SDSU so loved on this board as an expansion candidate??

(09-28-2013 02:58 PM)Brian Reading Wrote:  Why not add NIU? Because we're not trying to be C-USA. We're striving to remain included with the big boys, and we need to act like it. Adding NIU would impress no one. Fake it until you make it.

delusional much?

we are not "remaining" with the big boys in football in any way, shape or form.

"we're not trying to be cusa"? we ARE the original cusa plus some blah pieces of the second version of cusa - but minus the best cusa football programs of louisville and tcu. we are "replacing" those legitimate football programs with temple (0-4) and navy (2-1 - but a very pedestrian program) and conneticut (0-4).

niu is so much better than any football program we will still have next year that they wouldn't consider us. what a joke.

USM has not won a game since 2011. We need to stop mentioning them as a candidate.

(09-30-2013 10:29 AM)sfink16 Wrote:  

(09-30-2013 10:04 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 08:24 PM)sfink16 Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 08:14 PM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  yep access bowl will be based on SoS and rankings and AAC champ in most years should be higher than NIU who schedules cupcakes and plays in the MAC. No fan base = no addition period end of story. We have enough teams in this conference who have no fans. Perception is reality, if we all had sold out 45K+ stadiums I assure you our TV contract wouldn't have been as dismal as it was.

Fact is you can't deny that if we had 10 teams all averaging 55-60K we would get paid period.

I can't believe that I'm defending NIU but I must when the facts are incorrect. Their OOC schedule is on par with most G5 teams. This year they play Iowa and Purdue. Next year they play 3 P5 teams in Wake Forest, Northwestern, and Arkansas with all on the road. They also have Ohio State and Nebraska (4 games) scheduled on the road. As for Purdue sucking this year, you never know that when they make future schedules.

I wholeheartedly agree on virtually everything else and truly wish we could boast such attendance numbers.

Difference is the P5 teams make up SoS in conference when NIU is busy playing 8-9 of the worst teams in the country. Sure, they might have a couple crap P5 teams on their schedule, but even if they do schedule good ones their SoS plummets once they hit conference play.

On top of that they are coming off a BCS bowl appearance and still can't average more than 20K. They are peaked out at 20K. Why would we want anything to do with a program that peaks at 20K fans?

I find this so difficult when facts are misrepresented that I feel obligated to reply. Again you tell the truth until you wind up completely fabricating the truth.

The MAC had 7 teams bowl eligable and invited last year:

http://www.mac-sports.com/tabid/969/Arti...vites.aspx

I hardly call

NIU 12 and 1
Kent State 11 and 2
Toledo 9 and 3
Ball State 9 and 3
Bowling Green 8 and 4
Ohio 8 and 4

the 8 or 9 worst teams in FBS. That's with scheduling P5 teams! Is it a great conference? Of course not. But there are teams in the conference capable of competing, not just NIU.

When you mention attendance and other variables, I can't argue with that. But on the field, they perform at a G5 level without a doubt.

Sorry, just look at the facts:

MAC is the 9th rated conference. AAC is the 6th. AAC is closer to the ACC than it is the MAC. I do not believe for a second MAC is on par with AAC or MWC. They might be on par with CUSA and sun belt, but the line is drawn there. For the purposes of this thread, there is a large gap between us and them.

(09-30-2013 10:52 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  USM has not won a game since 2011. We need to stop mentioning them as a candidate.

Expansion candidates are not made from reading last night's box scores.

They have had more success in their recent and long term history than most teams in the conference. They also have their own recruiting territory, stronger than most candidates. I am not saying they are the top candidate, but two down seasons do not kill a program.

(09-30-2013 10:29 AM)sfink16 Wrote:  

(09-30-2013 10:04 AM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 08:24 PM)sfink16 Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 08:14 PM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  yep access bowl will be based on SoS and rankings and AAC champ in most years should be higher than NIU who schedules cupcakes and plays in the MAC. No fan base = no addition period end of story. We have enough teams in this conference who have no fans. Perception is reality, if we all had sold out 45K+ stadiums I assure you our TV contract wouldn't have been as dismal as it was.

Fact is you can't deny that if we had 10 teams all averaging 55-60K we would get paid period.

Id say its likely the 7 or 8 top AAC teams would have even more gaudy records playing in the MAC.
I can't believe that I'm defending NIU but I must when the facts are incorrect. Their OOC schedule is on par with most G5 teams. This year they play Iowa and Purdue. Next year they play 3 P5 teams in Wake Forest, Northwestern, and Arkansas with all on the road. They also have Ohio State and Nebraska (4 games) scheduled on the road. As for Purdue sucking this year, you never know that when they make future schedules.

I wholeheartedly agree on virtually everything else and truly wish we could boast such attendance numbers.

Difference is the P5 teams make up SoS in conference when NIU is busy playing 8-9 of the worst teams in the country. Sure, they might have a couple crap P5 teams on their schedule, but even if they do schedule good ones their SoS plummets once they hit conference play.

On top of that they are coming off a BCS bowl appearance and still can't average more than 20K. They are peaked out at 20K. Why would we want anything to do with a program that peaks at 20K fans?

I find this so difficult when facts are misrepresented that I feel obligated to reply. Again you tell the truth until you wind up completely fabricating the truth.

The MAC had 7 teams bowl eligable and invited last year:

http://www.mac-sports.com/tabid/969/Arti...vites.aspx

I hardly call

NIU 12 and 1
Kent State 11 and 2
Toledo 9 and 3
Ball State 9 and 3
Bowling Green 8 and 4
Ohio 8 and 4

the 8 or 9 worst teams in FBS. That's with scheduling P5 teams! Is it a great conference? Of course not. But there are teams in the conference capable of competing, not just NIU.

When you mention attendance and other variables, I can't argue with that. But on the field, they perform at a G5 level without a doubt.

I'd say the top 7 or 8 AAC schools could have equally gaudy records playing in the MAC.

(09-28-2013 02:58 PM)Brian Reading Wrote:  Why not add NIU? Because we're not trying to be C-USA. We're striving to remain included with the big boys, and we need to act like it. Adding NIU would impress no one. Fake it until you make it.

Yep. Any schools out that there that would actually want to join us are schools that would not add any value, they would just be one more mouth to feed.

We should not be talking expansion right now.

(09-30-2013 11:14 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(09-30-2013 10:52 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  USM has not won a game since 2011. We need to stop mentioning them as a candidate.

Expansion candidates are not made from reading last night's box scores.

They have had more success in their recent and long term history than most teams in the conference. They also have their own recruiting territory, stronger than most candidates. I a not saying they are the top candidate, but two down seasons do not kill a program.

I also cant help but notice that Aresco made a major point of discussing the academics of the conference last time he spoke about expansion. Army fits that mold (as does Air Force). Rice comes to mind as a school that might fit well with schools like Navy, Army, SMU, Tulsa, UConn, and Tulane.