Scott Gleeson has recently posted this article on USA Today's website: "Power Mid Majors with final four Potential". That's precisely the kind of program that the Big East should be looking for in expansion.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...l/2842433/

(09-27-2013 07:17 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Scott Gleeson has recently posted this article on USA Today's website: "Power Mid Majors with final four Potential". That's precisely the kind of program that the Big East should be looking for in expansion.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...l/2842433/

UNM is an interesting choice...would be a nice part of a "western" division. The Lobos have an intense fanbase that would add to the BE. If we're going to go with a public, I'd prefer a flagship with a rabid fanbase plus Denver/SLU over a commuter school in vcu + SLU/UD

(09-27-2013 09:12 PM)The Turk Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 07:17 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Scott Gleeson has recently posted this article on USA Today's website: "Power Mid Majors with final four Potential". That's precisely the kind of program that the Big East should be looking for in expansion.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...l/2842433/

UNM is an interesting choice...would be a nice part of a "western" division. The Lobos have an intense fanbase that would add to the BE. If we're going to go with a public, I'd prefer a flagship with a rabid fanbase plus Denver/SLU over a commuter school in vcu + SLU/UD

Denver is intriguing. Would be a great link to to the West if we ever wanted to cross it and wouldn't be a bad option to go with SLU.

(09-28-2013 10:22 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 09:12 PM)The Turk Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 07:17 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Scott Gleeson has recently posted this article on USA Today's website: "Power Mid Majors with final four Potential". That's precisely the kind of program that the Big East should be looking for in expansion.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...l/2842433/

UNM is an interesting choice...would be a nice part of a "western" division. The Lobos have an intense fanbase that would add to the BE. If we're going to go with a public, I'd prefer a flagship with a rabid fanbase plus Denver/SLU over a commuter school in vcu + SLU/UD

Denver is intriguing. Would be a great link to to the West if we ever wanted to cross it and wouldn't be a bad option to go with SLU.

i agree if we went to 16 with a western wing they would be an interesting choice (the 6 being SLU,VCU,Wichita,gonzaga,denver and dayton(?) or Umass if they dropped their FB dreams)

(09-28-2013 11:27 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(09-28-2013 10:22 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 09:12 PM)The Turk Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 07:17 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Scott Gleeson has recently posted this article on USA Today's website: "Power Mid Majors with final four Potential". That's precisely the kind of program that the Big East should be looking for in expansion.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...l/2842433/

UNM is an interesting choice...would be a nice part of a "western" division. The Lobos have an intense fanbase that would add to the BE. If we're going to go with a public, I'd prefer a flagship with a rabid fanbase plus Denver/SLU over a commuter school in vcu + SLU/UD

Denver is intriguing. Would be a great link to to the West if we ever wanted to cross it and wouldn't be a bad option to go with SLU.

i agree if we went to 16 with a western wing they would be an interesting choice (the 6 being SLU,VCU,Wichita,gonzaga,denver and dayton(?) or Umass if they dropped their FB dreams)

If you're going west then go west. Remove Dayton, add San Francisco or Loyola Marymount.

If we ever do go with a full western expansion it won't be for quite some time. The WCC and Big West will have to step up its game with both on the court success, fan support and monetary investments.

(09-27-2013 09:12 PM)The Turk Wrote:  I'd prefer a flagship with a rabid fanbase plus Denver/SLU over a commuter school in vcu + SLU/UD

Mike Aresco, is that you?

(09-29-2013 11:53 AM)Natty Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 09:12 PM)The Turk Wrote:  I'd prefer a flagship with a rabid fanbase plus Denver/SLU over a commuter school in vcu + SLU/UD

Mike Aresco, is that you?

you do know that New Mexico play football?
They don't play well but they do field a team

Just keep forgetting, national media. Just keep forgetting.

(09-29-2013 07:05 PM)EPJr Wrote:  

(09-29-2013 11:53 AM)Natty Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 09:12 PM)The Turk Wrote:  I'd prefer a flagship with a rabid fanbase plus Denver/SLU over a commuter school in vcu + SLU/UD

Mike Aresco, is that you?

you do know that New Mexico play football?
They don't play well but they do field a team

it was just a poor trolling effort on my part after way too many cocktails

(09-29-2013 09:11 PM)LouPower Wrote:  Just keep forgetting, national media. Just keep forgetting.

Lou, if the BE does go to 12+, do you see any schools making it over SLU? I don't unless someone like a UConn becomes available. SLU is a great school in a major metro with solid, but not great bball. It's probably the best fit overall, and certainly the best fit if we give significant weight to anything other than recent bball success.

Based on what I know of the way Gtown thinks, which admittedly isn't a whole lot, the calculus that DeGioia/GU will use would favor SLU over VCU or UD. If there are state flagships with good bball available, those would also be high on the list. I've no clue how the other BE presidents think about this.

(09-27-2013 07:17 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Scott Gleeson has recently posted this article on USA Today's website: "Power Mid Majors with final four Potential". That's precisely the kind of program that the Big East should be looking for in expansion.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...l/2842433/

The only two potential teams on that list are Wichita State and VCU which should be the two teams we invite. Neither have FBS football and both are athletic powerhouses. Both schools will strengthen us in more than just basketball.... As an example here is what the league would look like in Volleyball with both of them part of it.

with them we are near BCS level....
Creighton 10
Marquette 15
VCU 38
Butler 42
WSU 45
Xavier 79
Villanova 91
DePaul 130
Seton Hall 138
St Johns 156
Georgetown 177
Providence 293

If I was creating an 8-team "Big West" (I'm aware of potential naming conflicts, this is just to show connection with the Big East), I go with the following (in a first off the top of my head order:

Denver: Private school, Catholic, good metro area. Like Creighton, dominant in a sport other than basketball (adding diversity to conference alignment), though hopefully other programs in the west or north would add hockey to compete against them.

Gonzaga: Private, Catholic, but far away in a fairly small metro area. Great at basketball, capable of spending money, and remarkably consistent.

Saint Mary's: Private, Catholic, travel partner to Gonzaga. Strong, but not as nationally relevant as Gonzaga. Important to provide some travel allowances for Gonzaga.

Loyola-Chicago: This is a head-scratcher, so bear with me. Loyola has fit, but would contrast with DePaul in their city; this would be solved by having DePaul as an Eastern conference member. The main problem is that they haven't been good at basketball for a very long time. But they recently moved up to the MVC despite being bad in a weaker conference largely because they showed they have both the money and desire to get better. They have a $400,000.000 endowment, and rank #101 in US News rankings, and they have history (a national title) and they also fit well with the conference. I think they'd be a good sleeping giant addition (can't hire every school based solely on current records, because those will change!)

Saint Louis: Quality program on the rise, also has institutional fit and a close proximity to Creighton. Obviously doesn't need as much explaining as Loyola-Chicago, as they were close to getting a first-round invitation.

Creighton: Because they'd probably on the Western Side.

Bradley: Another "sleeping giant" program, could potentially be somewhat close to either Butler (if in the West) or Loyola though they are the first non-Catholic school on this list. Not quite as highly ranked academically as Loyola but still has a $200,000,000 endowment and strong history (2 time runner-up in the NCAA).

Wichita State: An optional pick you've probably heard too much about. Not the greatest of fits as they are a public school, but very strong program. While the overall attendance is lower than Creighton, the money made is about the same and programs are roughly similar in performance (Creighton more consistent but without the post-season success, Wichita State with greater peaks but lower valleys and fewer post season appearances). They would be the second best pure basketball pick to bring in. They'd be travel partners with Denver in this scenario (not extremely close but it is something!)

Butler: May or may not go to a hypothetical western division.

Dayton: Also an obvious possible addition, along with Saint Louis. Very strong attendance numbers, program not as strong right now but with potential to improve.



Seems like there are plenty of schools to look from.

I don't see the BW being a very good league. Outside of a couple teams its pretty bad. Denver has never made the NCAA tournament and here ud gets **** because they have went 2-3 times in last twenty years

(11-14-2013 08:26 PM)Roader Wrote:  I don't see the BW being a very good league. Outside of a couple teams its pretty bad. Denver has never made the NCAA tournament and here ud gets **** because they have went 2-3 times in last twenty years

Let's say this is your western division:

Gonzaga
Saint Mary's
Wichita State
Creighton
Saint Louis
Dayton
Denver
Loyola-Chicago

The top 5 are all tournament level teams right now. The bottom three are all high potential picks that bring fit and HUGE endowments ($400+M). Denver has been okay, but hasn't been a tournament team and is probably the weakest link (replace with Butler?). Dayton and Loyola-Chicago have the potential to improve themselves to join the first group.

At worst, the bad teams stink so much that the top teams get a ton of easy wins and thus look great going into Selection Sunday. At best the bad teams improve themselves with their large money reserves and you have 7-8 teams legitimately competing for NCAA bids (which would prevent the division from getting weak when a top team has a bad year).

Looking at that though, we'd have to replace Denver with Butler to keep the Eastern division at 8 teams. Less money, but better coaching and program; still very strong. And Wichita State could replaced with Bradley to give Butler to give them a good conference fit (somewhat close, private non-Catholic).

Another change could be to replace Loyola-Chicago with DePaul and add VCU to the Eastern Confernce.

FWIW Denver isnt Catholic although i would still include them
Id suggest instead of Loyola maybe Portland or if Bradley is included maybe Drake or even Detroit.

BYU is an obvious choice.

(11-14-2013 09:26 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  FWIW Denver isnt Catholic although i would still include them
Id suggest instead of Loyola maybe Portland or if Bradley is included maybe Drake or even Detroit.

For my bad teams I was mostly looking at the potential to improve. My main criteria were:

1. Endowment: An endowment is a good measure of a school's ability to fund their programs
2. Nearby metro areas: Chicago and Denver are big enough that they offer some recruiting advantage
3. History: Shows that teams have been there before and have the potential to build a quality program

That is why Loyola-Chicago was included in my potential schools. They meet all three criteria, whereas other schools meet 2 or less. Denver doesn't have the history, Bradley isn't in a major metro area.

While I considered Drake and Detroit, they each had problems in those regards. Detroit has an endowment of only $26 million, which indicates that they may not have the ability to get much better. Drake has a slightly larger endowment ($149M) and they have some history (a Final Four), but Bradley's endowment and history were better (Des Moines is slightly better than Peoria but not enough). Portland is a nice fit, a quality metro area, and a decent endowment; the problem is that the basketball program has never been great and the endowment isn't big enough to convince me that they can much better.

(11-14-2013 09:47 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  BYU is an obvious choice.

Their basketball program IS an obvious choice. But what comes with it makes it a little harder to justify. This conference has tried to avoid instability and football is the biggest cause of conference instability.

personally......

theres no way the big east ever adds an fbs school. i dont thinkthey ever wanna go down that road again and risk losing a team to conf realignment over football dollars. so lets cross out BYU, uconn, umass, & ODU from the conversation

(11-14-2013 10:05 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 09:26 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  FWIW Denver isnt Catholic although i would still include them
Id suggest instead of Loyola maybe Portland or if Bradley is included maybe Drake or even Detroit.

For my bad teams I was mostly looking at the potential to improve. My main criteria were:

1. Endowment: An endowment is a good measure of a school's ability to fund their programs
2. Nearby metro areas: Chicago and Denver are big enough that they offer some recruiting advantage
3. History: Shows that teams have been there before and have the potential to build a quality program

That is why Loyola-Chicago was included in my potential schools. They meet all three criteria, whereas other schools meet 2 or less. Denver doesn't have the history, Bradley isn't in a major metro area.

While I considered Drake and Detroit, they each had problems in those regards. Detroit has an endowment of only $26 million, which indicates that they may not have the ability to get much better. Drake has a slightly larger endowment ($149M) and they have some history (a Final Four), but Bradley's endowment and history were better (Des Moines is slightly better than Peoria but not enough). Portland is a nice fit, a quality metro area, and a decent endowment; the problem is that the basketball program has never been great and the endowment isn't big enough to convince me that they can much better.

(11-14-2013 09:47 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  BYU is an obvious choice.

Their basketball program IS an obvious choice. But what comes with it makes it a little harder to justify. This conference has tried to avoid instability and football is the biggest cause of conference instability.

Money is the root of all evil - including conference instability. It's not football per se. To the degree that football factored into the instability of the old Big
East, it became a problem only when football was allowed to grow to 8 members. When there were only a couple, it wasn't an issue.

BYU is much like Notre Dame, making a commitment to football independence. They are currently in the West Coast Conference, a group dominated by small Catholic schools and things are working fine. Ring a bell? Do you think if there were a chance to get Notre Dame, the conference wouldn't jump at it and seize the opportunity?