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ACC vs Maryland update
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DeacKillsaDevil Offline
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ACC vs Maryland update
09-26-2013 09:27 AM
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DeacKillsaDevil Offline
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Post: #2
RE: ACC vs Maryland update
From a lawyer friend

It appears that there is a substantial amount of case law regarding sovereign immunity for states where they've entered into contracts. They all cut against Maryland and in favor of the ACC - at least as far as North Carolina entering contracts is concerned.

"The State “implicitly consents to be sued for damages on [a] contract in the event it breaches the contract.”"

Smith v. State, 289 N.C. 303, 222 S.E.2d 412 (1976)
09-26-2013 09:28 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: ACC vs Maryland update
last 2 paragraphs very interesting:
If a settlement isn't reached, the dispute could have a lasting influence by setting a guidepost on how athletic conferences can enforce unity, Duke University's Haagen said. Courts will have to decide whether the ACC exit provision was set by estimating the damages to other schools when conference members depart, or is an illegal penalty clause, he said. For example, while a home construction contract with a builder can make the builder responsible for hotel bills if the job isn't done by an expected date, it can't seek to simply punish the builder with an extreme penalty, Haagen said.

"Here the amounts are very high. Is it really what the ACC and other institutions will lose as a result of losing Maryland in terms of scheduling, planning, damage to the brand?" Haagen said. "Or, is this an attempt to hold them in or punish them for leaving that has nothing to do with the actual harm suffered?"
09-26-2013 09:30 AM
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Rich52c Offline
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Post: #4
RE: ACC vs Maryland update
(09-26-2013 09:30 AM)stever20 Wrote:  last 2 paragraphs very interesting:
If a settlement isn't reached, the dispute could have a lasting influence by setting a guidepost on how athletic conferences can enforce unity, Duke University's Haagen said. Courts will have to decide whether the ACC exit provision was set by estimating the damages to other schools when conference members depart, or is an illegal penalty clause, he said. For example, while a home construction contract with a builder can make the builder responsible for hotel bills if the job isn't done by an expected date, it can't seek to simply punish the builder with an extreme penalty, Haagen said.

"Here the amounts are very high. Is it really what the ACC and other institutions will lose as a result of losing Maryland in terms of scheduling, planning, damage to the brand?" Haagen said. "Or, is this an attempt to hold them in or punish them for leaving that has nothing to do with the actual harm suffered?"

This case needs to be taken out of NC court.
That is a total JOKE.
09-26-2013 10:16 AM
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TerryD Online
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RE: ACC vs Maryland update
(09-26-2013 10:16 AM)Rich52c Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 09:30 AM)stever20 Wrote:  last 2 paragraphs very interesting:
If a settlement isn't reached, the dispute could have a lasting influence by setting a guidepost on how athletic conferences can enforce unity, Duke University's Haagen said. Courts will have to decide whether the ACC exit provision was set by estimating the damages to other schools when conference members depart, or is an illegal penalty clause, he said. For example, while a home construction contract with a builder can make the builder responsible for hotel bills if the job isn't done by an expected date, it can't seek to simply punish the builder with an extreme penalty, Haagen said.

"Here the amounts are very high. Is it really what the ACC and other institutions will lose as a result of losing Maryland in terms of scheduling, planning, damage to the brand?" Haagen said. "Or, is this an attempt to hold them in or punish them for leaving that has nothing to do with the actual harm suffered?"

This case needs to be taken out of NC court.
That is a total JOKE.


How would you do that????
09-26-2013 10:27 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #6
RE: ACC vs Maryland update
(09-26-2013 09:28 AM)DeacKillsaDevil Wrote:  From a lawyer friend

It appears that there is a substantial amount of case law regarding sovereign immunity for states where they've entered into contracts. They all cut against Maryland and in favor of the ACC - at least as far as North Carolina entering contracts is concerned.

"The State “implicitly consents to be sued for damages on [a] contract in the event it breaches the contract.”"

Smith v. State, 289 N.C. 303, 222 S.E.2d 412 (1976)
The main problem I see with this is the fact that the State of North Carolina isn't in a dispute with the University of Maryland. The ACC has the dispute. Making it a case of the State of North Carolina against the University of Maryland is ludicrous...

When did the ACC become the State of North Carolina?
Why did the ACC become the State of North Carolina?
How did the entire ACC not know the ACC was the State of North Carolina?
Why does the State of North Carolina have so many schools outside its borders?

Inquiring minds want to know...
09-26-2013 12:24 PM
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Gray Avenger Offline
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Post: #7
RE: ACC vs Maryland update
(09-26-2013 12:24 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  When did the ACC become the State of North Carolina?
Why did the ACC become the State of North Carolina?
How did the entire ACC not know the ACC was the State of North Carolina?
Why does the State of North Carolina have so many schools outside its borders?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Where would you try the case?
(This post was last modified: 09-26-2013 12:29 PM by Gray Avenger.)
09-26-2013 12:29 PM
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Post: #8
RE: ACC vs Maryland update
(09-26-2013 10:27 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 10:16 AM)Rich52c Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 09:30 AM)stever20 Wrote:  last 2 paragraphs very interesting:
If a settlement isn't reached, the dispute could have a lasting influence by setting a guidepost on how athletic conferences can enforce unity, Duke University's Haagen said. Courts will have to decide whether the ACC exit provision was set by estimating the damages to other schools when conference members depart, or is an illegal penalty clause, he said. For example, while a home construction contract with a builder can make the builder responsible for hotel bills if the job isn't done by an expected date, it can't seek to simply punish the builder with an extreme penalty, Haagen said.

"Here the amounts are very high. Is it really what the ACC and other institutions will lose as a result of losing Maryland in terms of scheduling, planning, damage to the brand?" Haagen said. "Or, is this an attempt to hold them in or punish them for leaving that has nothing to do with the actual harm suffered?"

This case needs to be taken out of NC court.
That is a total JOKE.


How would you do that????

They can't, it will move up to the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals, regardless of who wins in NC.
09-26-2013 12:33 PM
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #9
RE: ACC vs Maryland update
(09-26-2013 12:24 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 09:28 AM)DeacKillsaDevil Wrote:  From a lawyer friend

It appears that there is a substantial amount of case law regarding sovereign immunity for states where they've entered into contracts. They all cut against Maryland and in favor of the ACC - at least as far as North Carolina entering contracts is concerned.

"The State “implicitly consents to be sued for damages on [a] contract in the event it breaches the contract.”"

Smith v. State, 289 N.C. 303, 222 S.E.2d 412 (1976)
The main problem I see with this is the fact that the State of North Carolina isn't in a dispute with the University of Maryland. The ACC has the dispute. Making it a case of the State of North Carolina against the University of Maryland is ludicrous...

When did the ACC become the State of North Carolina?
Why did the ACC become the State of North Carolina?
How did the entire ACC not know the ACC was the State of North Carolina?
Why does the State of North Carolina have so many schools outside its borders?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Because that is where the ACC is headquartered. Just like the Big East filed suit in RI against WVU a couple of years ago - it's where they were HQ'd.
09-26-2013 12:33 PM
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DeacKillsaDevil Offline
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Post: #10
RE: ACC vs Maryland update
(09-26-2013 12:24 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 09:28 AM)DeacKillsaDevil Wrote:  From a lawyer friend

It appears that there is a substantial amount of case law regarding sovereign immunity for states where they've entered into contracts. They all cut against Maryland and in favor of the ACC - at least as far as North Carolina entering contracts is concerned.

"The State “implicitly consents to be sued for damages on [a] contract in the event it breaches the contract.”"

Smith v. State, 289 N.C. 303, 222 S.E.2d 412 (1976)
The main problem I see with this is the fact that the State of North Carolina isn't in a dispute with the University of Maryland. The ACC has the dispute. Making it a case of the State of North Carolina against the University of Maryland is ludicrous...

When did the ACC become the State of North Carolina?
Why did the ACC become the State of North Carolina?
How did the entire ACC not know the ACC was the State of North Carolina?
Why does the State of North Carolina have so many schools outside its borders?

Inquiring minds want to know...

I think you have missed the point. There is precedent in the state that a state government does not have sovereign immunity when a state has entered into a contract with another entity. The attorney general for Maryland has argued that the University is part of a state and can not be sued.
09-26-2013 12:35 PM
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #11
RE: ACC vs Maryland update
(09-26-2013 12:33 PM)Lord2FLI Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 10:27 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 10:16 AM)Rich52c Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 09:30 AM)stever20 Wrote:  last 2 paragraphs very interesting:
If a settlement isn't reached, the dispute could have a lasting influence by setting a guidepost on how athletic conferences can enforce unity, Duke University's Haagen said. Courts will have to decide whether the ACC exit provision was set by estimating the damages to other schools when conference members depart, or is an illegal penalty clause, he said. For example, while a home construction contract with a builder can make the builder responsible for hotel bills if the job isn't done by an expected date, it can't seek to simply punish the builder with an extreme penalty, Haagen said.

"Here the amounts are very high. Is it really what the ACC and other institutions will lose as a result of losing Maryland in terms of scheduling, planning, damage to the brand?" Haagen said. "Or, is this an attempt to hold them in or punish them for leaving that has nothing to do with the actual harm suffered?"

This case needs to be taken out of NC court.
That is a total JOKE.


How would you do that????

They can't, it will get settled before it gets to trial.

FIFY
09-26-2013 12:36 PM
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Post: #12
RE: ACC vs Maryland update
(09-26-2013 12:36 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 12:33 PM)Lord2FLI Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 10:27 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 10:16 AM)Rich52c Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 09:30 AM)stever20 Wrote:  last 2 paragraphs very interesting:
If a settlement isn't reached, the dispute could have a lasting influence by setting a guidepost on how athletic conferences can enforce unity, Duke University's Haagen said. Courts will have to decide whether the ACC exit provision was set by estimating the damages to other schools when conference members depart, or is an illegal penalty clause, he said. For example, while a home construction contract with a builder can make the builder responsible for hotel bills if the job isn't done by an expected date, it can't seek to simply punish the builder with an extreme penalty, Haagen said.

"Here the amounts are very high. Is it really what the ACC and other institutions will lose as a result of losing Maryland in terms of scheduling, planning, damage to the brand?" Haagen said. "Or, is this an attempt to hold them in or punish them for leaving that has nothing to do with the actual harm suffered?"

This case needs to be taken out of NC court.
That is a total JOKE.


How would you do that????

They can't, it will get settled before it gets to trial.

FIFY

I have a feeling about this one, I don't think it's gets settled before trial, Maryland seems to think they have a legitimate winning strategy.
09-26-2013 12:44 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #13
RE: ACC vs Maryland update
Maryland is toast.
My money is on Alan Duncan..
09-26-2013 12:47 PM
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justinslot Offline
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RE: ACC vs Maryland update
I mean I'm for Maryland as an official ACC despiser, but I really need to know the Vegas line before I pick a winner.
09-26-2013 12:52 PM
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #15
RE: ACC vs Maryland update
(09-26-2013 12:44 PM)Lord2FLI Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 12:36 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 12:33 PM)Lord2FLI Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 10:27 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 10:16 AM)Rich52c Wrote:  This case needs to be taken out of NC court.
That is a total JOKE.


How would you do that????

They can't, it will get settled before it gets to trial.

FIFY

I have a feeling about this one, I don't think it's gets settled before trial, Maryland seems to think they have a legitimate winning strategy.

Maybe, but they basically lost in their own state with the suit filed in MD essentially left waiting for the verdict/settlement of the NC case. The MD court also struck down the idea that it was an anti-trust case, which is something Maryland was hanging their hat on.
09-26-2013 12:55 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #16
RE: ACC vs Maryland update
(09-26-2013 12:52 PM)justinslot Wrote:  I mean I'm for Maryland as an official ACC despiser, but I really need to know the Vegas line before I pick a winner.

I don't know about Vegas, but everyone in the legal world would be picking Alan Duncan.
09-26-2013 01:01 PM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #17
RE: ACC vs Maryland update
Again as I have said, this decision will have implications for every Conference and every agreement signed by the schools within the Conferences. It very well may have even broader implications outside of college sports!
09-26-2013 01:03 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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RE: ACC vs Maryland update
(09-26-2013 12:24 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 09:28 AM)DeacKillsaDevil Wrote:  From a lawyer friend

It appears that there is a substantial amount of case law regarding sovereign immunity for states where they've entered into contracts. They all cut against Maryland and in favor of the ACC - at least as far as North Carolina entering contracts is concerned.

"The State “implicitly consents to be sued for damages on [a] contract in the event it breaches the contract.”"

Smith v. State, 289 N.C. 303, 222 S.E.2d 412 (1976)
The main problem I see with this is the fact that the State of North Carolina isn't in a dispute with the University of Maryland. The ACC has the dispute. Making it a case of the State of North Carolina against the University of Maryland is ludicrous...

When did the ACC become the State of North Carolina?
Why did the ACC become the State of North Carolina?
How did the entire ACC not know the ACC was the State of North Carolina?
Why does the State of North Carolina have so many schools outside its borders?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Sovereign Immunity used to be a bed buddy of mine. To answer your question - NC State and UNC are the State of NC. UM is the State of MD. Period.

These are State controlled actors or pure creatures of the State under Dillion's Rule. Now, when States or their creatures engage in "enterprises" and they buy insurance for their enterprises, they have given up sovereign immunity although they always claim it in any dispute.

In this case the State of Florida, the State of SC, the State of Ga., the State of NC, and the State of Virginia are suing the State of MD to make MD honor it's contract. This is just like any other multi-state compact.

I don't know enough about how the Commonwealth of PA and Massachusetts works to know for sure what the deal is there and that goes to NY and Louisville however a good attorney could probably peg BC, and Pitt as being associated with their states as some point in the past - enough to gum them into the ball. The State of Indiana is not in the mix as I understand how ND is set up.

The southern ACC schools have ALWAYS know the law.

As to the guy at Duke. His comments are not on-point. He likes to read his name in the paper but he's not commenting on the litigation at the bar in NC. The only litigation at the bar in NC is the contract that forms the ACC and formed it back in 1954. The other 14 schools are suing MD to validate that they have to perform under the contract they have signed and reaffirmed for the last 50 + years.

The issue of the exit fee is not even germane at this point in the NC proceedings. The ACC will have withheld $30-$32 million of Maryland's money by June 30 of 2014. All of this has been litigated in the past by other entities that have sovereign immunity - cities, towns, counties, states.

The bottom line remains, Maryland was dumb.

Now, as to the end game. The ACC wining the litigation against MD is not really a concern, however, collecting a judgment is what's up in the air and I'm not sure any mechanism other than the NCAA can be used to collect from Maryland. A lien on the State of Maryland or Byrd Stadium is not going to happen and can't be perfected as understand liens and judgments.
(This post was last modified: 09-26-2013 01:16 PM by lumberpack4.)
09-26-2013 01:06 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #19
RE: ACC vs Maryland update
(09-26-2013 12:29 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 12:24 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  When did the ACC become the State of North Carolina?
Why did the ACC become the State of North Carolina?
How did the entire ACC not know the ACC was the State of North Carolina?
Why does the State of North Carolina have so many schools outside its borders?

Inquiring minds want to know...
Where would you try the case?
How does Alaska sound?

IMO it'll end up in federal court, if it isn't settled out of court before hand...
09-26-2013 01:13 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: ACC vs Maryland update
(09-26-2013 01:13 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 12:29 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 12:24 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  When did the ACC become the State of North Carolina?
Why did the ACC become the State of North Carolina?
How did the entire ACC not know the ACC was the State of North Carolina?
Why does the State of North Carolina have so many schools outside its borders?

Inquiring minds want to know...
Where would you try the case?
How does Alaska sound?

IMO it'll end up in federal court, if it isn't settled out of court before hand...

Yes, eventually it will hit the 4th circuit in Richmond, but that will not change anything. The ACC will still have $30-$34 million of Maryland's withheld money and the actual process of collecting a judgment from the State of MD and the University of MD, will be the tricky part.
09-26-2013 01:18 PM
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