(09-27-2013 03:27 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 03:12 PM)redfan Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 02:44 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 02:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 02:12 PM)john01992 Wrote:  WTF is wrong with you people? because im a psu fan my point is suddenly invalid?

these sanctions with usc osu & psu in all 3 cases just caused more controversy than it settled.

All you are trying to do is get Joe Pa to be back to #1. That's it.

i never brought up PSU.....

you did

all im saying is that vacating wins just isnt that effective because the fans will still claim it, the schools will still do their best to claim em, and not matter what everyone knows who won those games.

wether its texas psu or alabama the result is the same

I have heard people claim all kind of strange things,doesn't make it true. That is why we keep a set of official records. Sounds like some fans are going through a denial stage.

According to the NCAA, opposing teams are not granted wins, as in a forfeit. The penalized school simply can't claim credit for that victory. For instance, in 2009, Penn State opened the season with a 31-7 rout of Akron. Penn State will lose credit for that win, but Akron cannot claim it as a victory.

ive seen plenty of times where tv announcers have referenced vacated games. heck in OSU's gamebook last season they still marked the victories. and did you see the 30 for 30 fab 5 documentary?

its really hard to say a game didnt happen, and its especially hard to erase heismans, final fours & nattys

“If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.”

(09-27-2013 01:29 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 01:18 PM)stever20 Wrote:  it's obvious vacated wins matter if you and all the other penn st minions keep on brining them up.

yeah well look at osu & usc they still claimed those wins at times and like i said.....

you cant erase history

Yeah, you can't erase the fact a kid was raped in the PSU showers either.

(09-27-2013 03:30 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 01:29 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 01:18 PM)stever20 Wrote:  it's obvious vacated wins matter if you and all the other penn st minions keep on brining them up.

yeah well look at osu & usc they still claimed those wins at times and like i said.....

you cant erase history

Yeah, you can't erase the fact a kid was raped in the PSU showers either.

thats not the point. these thread has nothing to do with PSU, its about the ncaa changing its own rulebook

My criteria is, "You are responsible for what you can control. You are not responsible for what you can not control."

Punishing current programs for something a previous program did does not meet this criteria. That's like saying you are going to jail because the people that lived in your house before you robbed a bank.

I would say that if an individual (fan, booster, staff, agent, or other) or company violates the rules, that individual or company is financially responsible for the consequences. Say a fan gives a player $1k worth of something. The player is declared ineligible. The team doesn't get to go to a bowl game. That costs the school $5 million in lost bowl revenue. Under the current system the player goes pro with no punishment. The fan gets banned and has to watch games in HD in the comfort of his living room. Under my system the fan and the player are responsible for the lost revenue.

The only way to enforce this would be through contracts and state laws.

In Penn State's case, the federal government will have the last say. After all, what happened on their campus was a clear violation of the Cleary Act...

Oddly enough, the Cleary Act was enacted because of another incident that happened in Pennsylvania...

(09-27-2013 04:10 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  In Penn State's case, the federal government will have the last say. After all, what happened on their campus was a clear violation of the Cleary Act...

Oddly enough, the Cleary Act was enacted because of another incident that happened in Pennsylvania...

oddly enough in the other cases the clearly act was enacted....both times it was enacted because the administration failed to report on-campus murders.

one school got a 55k fine, the other a 357k fine

im sorry runner but you are vastly overstating the power of the cleary act

(09-27-2013 04:18 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 04:10 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  In Penn State's case, the federal government will have the last say. After all, what happened on their campus was a clear violation of the Cleary Act...

Oddly enough, the Cleary Act was enacted because of another incident that happened in Pennsylvania...

oddly enough in the other cases the clearly act was enacted....both times it was enacted because the administration failed to report on-campus murders.

one school got a 55k fine, the other a 357k fine

im sorry runner but you are vastly overstating the power of the cleary act

If the escalating fines increases at the same rate, then Penn State should get fined around $2,317,255...

I'm of the opinion that since it's been so long, with no word from anyone at the DOE, that nothing is going to happen, which is a crying shame. But with enough money, you can literally get away with murder in this country...

(09-27-2013 02:12 PM)john01992 Wrote:  WTF is wrong with you people? because im a psu fan my point is suddenly invalid?

these sanctions with usc osu & psu in all 3 cases just caused more controversy than it settled.

Yes

The NCAA is gutless. We've seen it time and time again. They've had many opportunities to drop the hammer on cheaters, but they keep dropping it on their foot.

I've said it a hundred times and I'll say it again, the NCAA had ZERO jurisdiction in the PSU case. It was strictly a legal matter and should've been handled by the authorities and PA & Federal Governments. As a taxpayer of PA I wouldn't give a sh*t less if PSU lost more than 50% of its funding from the state and federal governments as well as their endowment wiped out. Hit PSU where it hurts and force them to deemphasize football. All this sh*t w/ the NCAA was a dog and pony show and a waste of time and only hurt recruits in the process.

As for actually cheating, I'll agree... the NCAA is pretty damn worthless.

(09-27-2013 01:20 PM)ULdave Wrote:  Depending on the situation...
Fine the coaches or the AD's involved with cheating. Bar them if they don't pay the fine.

Good point. Large fines such as a year of pay for each coach involved. There has to be some incentive to not cheat. As long as there is virtually nothing in place, the behavior will continue.

The problem is the model: the ncaa is put in positions to penalize the very programs that make it money (ohio state, florida, usc, etc). An outside body not associated with the ncaa or any school should be the ones to hear cases and make judgments. If you are the ncaa do you really want to do any REAL damage to a program that draws 100,000 fans to every home game, has great viewership on tv (tv ad money)? This is why you see slaps on the wrist vs real punishment. It's also why schools keep cheating. What's the worst that's going to happen realistically? Loss of some scholarships for a few years and maybe no bowl for a year, a banner taken down and an asterisk next to a bowl win or final four appearance. To most big time programs they can EASILY weather this type of punishment...so they cheat.
Miami FL, Ohio State, UNC, USC...all have been nailed for cheating recently. Other than USC (Kiffen sucked) can you really see any of these programs hurting?

Tennessee and Ok St are up next. Both cheated and yet neither will suffer any real consequence.