(09-27-2013 09:27 AM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 09:04 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 07:51 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(09-26-2013 07:41 PM)TimBuck2 Wrote:  Winters was not ready four years ago.

And English WAS ready? How 'bout Genyk? Woodruff?

When you stop hiring BCS assistants who've never run a program much less rebuilt one and get a guy with background like Harkema's you might have a chance.

Winters turned down Akron job two years ago.

Major:

I will have to explain what I have explained before.

English was EMU's first choice.

Genyk and Woodruff were NOT.

EMU has been turned down by a number of candidates the most noteworthy was Brian Kelly.

I believe Genyk was the AD's 3rd choice.

I believe the list was: Kelly (#1), UofM's Fred Jackson (#2) and Genyk was a fall back choice.

Coaches aren't stupid. They favor places were they are more likely to be successful.

No one has labled "EMU, the Cradle of (football) Coaches".

Matter of fact, EMU might be a graveyard...

I disagree on the graveyard phrase because you have to be someone first. EMU is a place where if you can't make it here you can't make it anyplace else. I would like our next to come in with one plan and that is to see what he has and build on that and the only plays is nothing but pure fundamentals and basic. I formation , power I, wish bone, option, student body left or right.

'Graveyard' is a 'backward looking' expression, i.e., what has happened in the past. I don't believe it reflects the future of EMU FB.

As NUPudge, me and probably many others would say, WHOMEVER is the HC next year will have a lot of talent.

Some coach next year could look good and win with English's recruits.

We will have a LOT of seniors.

And men's hoops will have a LOT of seniors this year too.

We could have a breakout season in hoops this year and football next year.

That isn't pie-in-the-sky but reflect a careful assessment of the upper-class talent in these two programs.

Matter of fact, Murphy brought in a lot of players who can win THIS YEAR. Not players to win in 2016, but 2013/2014.

Dear emu steve,
Superfan beat me to the punch, and I don't believe in sugar-coating things, but your last point about graveyard of coaches I think was a bit too much. As I have said on other posts here, about why Eastern is where it's at, has everything to do with the dumb hire of Dave Diles, and his dumb hires of football and basketball coaches. That got Eastern into such a hole it has taken decades to try and get out.

(09-27-2013 09:59 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear emu steve,
Superfan beat me to the punch, and I don't believe in sugar-coating things, but your last point about graveyard of coaches I think was a bit too much. As I have said on other posts here, about why Eastern is where it's at, has everything to do with the dumb hire of Dave Diles, and his dumb hires of football and basketball coaches. That got Eastern into such a hole it has taken decades to try and get out.

We've had problems a lot longer than Diles.

Milton Barnes was hired by Weiser but the choice was made by Dr. Shelton's VP.

I assume Woodruff was hired by Weiser, but I'd have to research.

Weiser must have hired Rick Rasnick, who was choice 1b back in 1993 (?). Ron Cooper was choice 1a. Rasnick could coach but couldn't keep control of a team.

Diles hired Boone and Genyk and I believe Ramsey.

I believe Diles did not want Ramsey but there was lot of 'local support' for the local, Ramsey, and his hands were tied.

Truth be told, Diles deserve a LOT of credit for having hired Brian Kelly until his (Kelley's) 'handlers' got to him and suggested that EMU was a bad spot for an up and coming coach and Kelly backed out.

Dear steve,
I'm not saying the story you have told about Dave Diles and Brian Kelly isn't true, however, I have never heard that.
I did hear that Kelly was offered the Eastern job, but took Central's offer instead.
You are also correct in stating Eastern's woes really got in trouble with President Shelton, but isn't he the guy who hired Diles?
Jim Harkema took over in 1983, if I am not mistaken, and it took him a few years to get to winning seasons. However, he had winning seasons in 86,87,88,89, if memory serves me and then he started to lose the next few years. My point being that I really think all the losing came with Shelton and Diles. Again, with whose ever fault it was in the actual hiring of people, they hired the wrong people.

I'll actually agree with Steve on the graveyard comment. Look I"ve said before and I'll say it again EMU is the toughest Div I football coaching job in the country. No tradition of winning, prior to English the administration and regents were trying to run a Div I program with a high school budget ie coaching salaries, poor attendance, lack of student interest. Guys like Rasnick, Woody, Genyk and now English were all highly thought of assistant coaches from winning programs. All were decent people with good intentions and ran clean programs, each had their own offensive and defensive strategies and none of them have succeeded in turning the program around. Now a new coach will have at least a salary base and an indoor facility to build around. When the time comes it will be interesting to see the candidate pool for this job.

Dear emu79,
No tradition of winning? What does a school have to have, twenty years or more of winning, in order to establish a winning tradition? I know what I am about to quote is in the past, but Boisture never had a losing season in the seven years as coach here. Harkema rebuilt the program to have four winning seasons in a row. Our stadium is named for the coach who had more wins than anyone.
The reasons for failing teams are the coaches. The people you mentioned, may have been decent people, but they were terrible coaches, especially Woodruff. When you have that many bad coaches in a row, you have really dug a hole that may be too deep of one to get out. Those coaches and English cover the last twenty years of losing football.

Ken,

A winning tradition would refer to programs like Michigan, Ohio State and back when Miami (O) in the MAC or CMU not so many years ago.

I didn't say we NEVER had that, I'm saying we don't have that NOW.

EMU is a tough coaching job and its a tough sell to potential coaches which is why Kelly and other finalist for the job have passed.

(09-27-2013 01:28 PM)emu79 Wrote:  Ken,

A winning tradition would refer to programs like Michigan, Ohio State and back when Miami (O) in the MAC or CMU not so many years ago.

I didn't say we NEVER had that, I'm saying we don't have that NOW.

EMU is a tough coaching job and its a tough sell to potential coaches which is why Kelly and other finalist for the job have passed.

We don't have a winning tradition in FB.

A 17 year old high school senior has never known a winning EMU FB team in his lifetime.

Dear steve,
Most seventeen year olds don't even think of the MAC, let alone Eastern. I bet most of them have never heard of the schools in the MAC. Most kids are stary eyed of the big programs like the Big Ten, or others. What school in the MAC has twenty years of winning seasons in a row? Most are lucky to have maybe ten and then the bottom falls out.
Sure, one can point to Michigan or Ohio State, but those are entirely different programs. One may wish to emulate that success, but some of it comes from things that Eastern can't do, like having eight home games every year.

Ken,

If we haven't had a winning record in the last 17 years then we don't have a winning tradition.

Couple of seasons in the 1980s doesn't constitute a 'winning tradition.'

[quote='emu79' pid='9775458' dateline='1380298719']
I'll actually agree with Steve on the graveyard comment. Look I"ve said before and I'll say it again EMU is the toughest Div I football coaching job in the country. No tradition of winning, prior to English the administration and regents were trying to run a Div I program with a high school budget ie coaching salaries, poor attendance, lack of student interest. Guys like Rasnick, Woody, Genyk and now English were all highly thought of assistant coaches from winning programs. All were decent people with good intentions and ran clean programs, each had their own offensive and defensive strategies and none of them have succeeded in turning the program around. Now a new coach will have at least a salary base and an indoor facility to build around. When the time comes it will be interesting to see the candidate pool for this job.
[/quote
EMU is a place where bad coaches go to die, not that where good coaches go to die. EMU is not a grave yard of anything! Unless when I die and I'm cremated and they put my ashes in the hill overlooking the soccer/baseball fields.

(09-27-2013 11:18 AM)emu79 Wrote:  I'll actually agree with Steve on the graveyard comment. Look I"ve said before and I'll say it again EMU is the toughest Div I football coaching job in the country. No tradition of winning, prior to English the administration and regents were trying to run a Div I program with a high school budget ie coaching salaries, poor attendance, lack of student interest. Guys like Rasnick, Woody, Genyk and now English were all highly thought of assistant coaches from winning programs. All were decent people with good intentions and ran clean programs, each had their own offensive and defensive strategies and none of them have succeeded in turning the program around. Now a new coach will have at least a salary base and an indoor facility to build around. When the time comes it will be interesting to see the candidate pool for this job.

EMU is a place where bad coaches go to die, not that where good coaches go to die. EMU is not a grave yard of anything! Unless when I die and I'm cremated and they put my ashes in the hill overlooking the soccer/baseball fields.

I'm hearing from some people tied into the SMU program that June Jones is in serious trouble. If he were to get canned...

Yes please.

Another possibility -- Mike Bajakian, OC, Tenn.

He's had loads of success as Butch Jones' personal OC.

(09-27-2013 03:03 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 11:18 AM)emu79 Wrote:  I'll actually agree with Steve on the graveyard comment. Look I"ve said before and I'll say it again EMU is the toughest Div I football coaching job in the country. No tradition of winning, prior to English the administration and regents were trying to run a Div I program with a high school budget ie coaching salaries, poor attendance, lack of student interest. Guys like Rasnick, Woody, Genyk and now English were all highly thought of assistant coaches from winning programs. All were decent people with good intentions and ran clean programs, each had their own offensive and defensive strategies and none of them have succeeded in turning the program around. Now a new coach will have at least a salary base and an indoor facility to build around. When the time comes it will be interesting to see the candidate pool for this job.

EMU is a place where bad coaches go to die, not that where good coaches go to die. EMU is not a grave yard of anything! Unless when I die and I'm cremated and they put my ashes in the hill overlooking the soccer/baseball fields.

Carl,

That's an interesting observation since for many of the EMU football coaches EMU was their FIRST head coaching job. Query: Then how would anyone know whether they would succeed or not?

(09-29-2013 10:47 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 03:03 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 11:18 AM)emu79 Wrote:  I'll actually agree with Steve on the graveyard comment. Look I"ve said before and I'll say it again EMU is the toughest Div I football coaching job in the country. No tradition of winning, prior to English the administration and regents were trying to run a Div I program with a high school budget ie coaching salaries, poor attendance, lack of student interest. Guys like Rasnick, Woody, Genyk and now English were all highly thought of assistant coaches from winning programs. All were decent people with good intentions and ran clean programs, each had their own offensive and defensive strategies and none of them have succeeded in turning the program around. Now a new coach will have at least a salary base and an indoor facility to build around. When the time comes it will be interesting to see the candidate pool for this job.

EMU is a place where bad coaches go to die, not that where good coaches go to die. EMU is not a grave yard of anything! Unless when I die and I'm cremated and they put my ashes in the hill overlooking the soccer/baseball fields.

Carl,

That's an interesting observation since for many of the EMU football coaches EMU was their FIRST head coaching job. Query: Then how would anyone know whether they would succeed or not?

'79:

Every EMU FB HC in my memory has had a tenure which resulted in him being fired or not retained or quitting before being fired.

The last successful HC who moved on to 'bigger and better things' was in the 1970s, I believe.

EDIT: I had forgot Ron Cooper who stayed two years and then went to Louisville

Dear emu79,
I think you answered your own question in a way. Isn't or hasn't the argument been that Eastern has been unsuccessful through the last twenty years because the coaches hired were not head coaches previously. I think this is why most of us are calling for the replacement of English to be a head coach. He could also be from a smaller program like Pete Lembo of Ball State, who was hired from Elon.
Remember Alabama State? They played Eastern tough a couple years ago. I just heard on one of the scoreboard shows yesterday, that they are having a good year so far. Maybe their coach could be looked at as a new head coach here.

Lane Kiffin is available.

(09-29-2013 10:47 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 03:03 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(09-27-2013 11:18 AM)emu79 Wrote:  I'll actually agree with Steve on the graveyard comment. Look I"ve said before and I'll say it again EMU is the toughest Div I football coaching job in the country. No tradition of winning, prior to English the administration and regents were trying to run a Div I program with a high school budget ie coaching salaries, poor attendance, lack of student interest. Guys like Rasnick, Woody, Genyk and now English were all highly thought of assistant coaches from winning programs. All were decent people with good intentions and ran clean programs, each had their own offensive and defensive strategies and none of them have succeeded in turning the program around. Now a new coach will have at least a salary base and an indoor facility to build around. When the time comes it will be interesting to see the candidate pool for this job.

EMU is a place where bad coaches go to die, not that where good coaches go to die. EMU is not a grave yard of anything! Unless when I die and I'm cremated and they put my ashes in the hill overlooking the soccer/baseball fields.

Carl,

That's an interesting observation since for many of the EMU football coaches EMU was their FIRST head coaching job. Query: Then how would anyone know whether they would succeed or not?

because they didn't. EMU should be the easy place to prove your good coach because it can only go up or stay the same.

I've stayed away for awhile because of frustration but with all the firings happening across the country, it actually sparked a little hope in me that we CAN get this ship righted this time. So bear with me as I rant.
I think Eastern needs a coach who has BEEN here and has an understanding of the overwhelming positives along with the underlying negative issues of this University and football program. Every coach comes in here and it takes them a full 2 years to get a full understanding. They clean house of what seems like negative people, which is probably just kids not accustomed to change, they say stay the course, or Embrace the Process, so we do, to give it time, but by then the attrition and negative vibe has permeated the locker room and fans and we are right back here.
I just happened to notice all the assistant coaches who leave here and go on to have spectacular coaching careers as either high profile assistants or Head Coaches themselves. These are the guys Heather Lyke should target, they know the positives and negatives and know exactly what needs to be done to be successful and we can skip all the grace period until the HC gets the program going garbage.

I'm sure there are many others, these are just what popped up on wikipedia and some of what I could remember off the top of my head.

Chuck Martin Notre Dame OC (unless he desperately wants to be a HC again for less money than getting now, nope)$$$
Bob Diaco Notre Dame DC (obviously not getting him)$$$
Stan Drayton Ohio State RB
Mike Elston Notre Dame DL
Harold Goodwin Arizona Cardinals OC (obviously not getting him)$$$$$
Todd Monken Souther Miss. HC (obviously not getting him)
Tyrone Wheatley RB Buffalo Bills
Kurt Anderson QC Buffalo Bills
Jim O'Neil LB Buffalo Bills
Taylor Stubblefield WR Wake Forrest
Kevin Wolthausen ST Florida International