This may be somewhere buried in the game thread but I'll ask here: can anyone explain the two calls that I didn't understand? A) when the EWU punter ran out of the endzone, then back in and punted everyone in the stands was calling for a safety. instead a five yard penalty and re-kick. B) the other was, I believe, an illegal formation with a time penalty, which, to my knowledge, I've never heard of in college football.

(09-14-2013 11:43 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  B) the other was, I believe, an illegal formation with a time penalty, which, to my knowledge, I've never heard of in college football.

If the offense has a penalty with under 1:00 left in the 2nd or 4th qtr, and the clock is running, there is an automatic :10 run off. It's been that way for a while, it just doesn't happen much.

(09-14-2013 11:43 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  This may be somewhere buried in the game thread but I'll ask here: can anyone explain the two calls that I didn't understand? A) when the EWU punter ran out of the endzone, then back in and punted everyone in the stands was calling for a safety. instead a five yard penalty and re-kick.

If his foot had been on the out of bounds white when he touched the ball, the ball would have been down. It would have been a safety. In replay, they apparently decided his foot wasn't out of bounds at the same time he was touching the ball. That's how I understood the commentary.

yeah, but on the replay his foot was clearly out of bounds while touching the ball (I thought it was inconclusive that the ball first touch the end line).

the refs and replay say the ball went off him, tiptoed the line, he went out while not touching the ball and then stepped back in before retouching it (which on replay clearly did not happen). and, of course punted the ball away.

it was a strangely officiated game. lots of judgement call whistles. gentle holds, pushes in the back on olinemen on running plays, the 7th guy not fully lined up at the line of scrimmage, etc...

the sec games were generally much looser on the officiating.

(09-15-2013 05:00 AM)pono Wrote:  yeah, but on the replay his foot was clearly out of bounds while touching the ball (I thought it was inconclusive that the ball first touch the end line).

the refs and replay say the ball went off him, tiptoed the line, he went out while not touching the ball and then stepped back in before retouching it (which on replay clearly did not happen). and, of course punted the ball away.

it was a strangely officiated game. lots of judgement call whistles. gentle holds, pushes in the back on olinemen on running plays, the 7th guy not fully lined up at the line of scrimmage, etc...

the sec games were generally much looser on the officiating.

They did two replays. On the first, from overhead, it looked like his foot was CLEARLY out of bounds and on the ground, while he was picking up the ball. On the second replay, a camera angle down field, the ESPN announcer said, "maybe not." There looked like there might have been air under his foot as he was picking up the ball. The second replay happened so quickly, I couldn't tell. I'll look at the replays again today.

Anyhow, that was the gist I got out of it. The refs were not convinced he was out of bounds at the time he was touching the ball, correct or not.

Beginning the 1:30 mark.

It could be a case of the eyes seeing what we wanted them wanted them to see.

First call was procedural, out of bounds then in bounds, 5 yds on the kick.

Toledo stopped it and said we want a re-kick, apparently an option the refs hadn't considered.

Then they decided to review.

First review from above it looks like both feet down. Left out of bounds. Hands on ball.

Second review from a more down field angle seemed to support it.

Third review from ground level said, well maybe not. Looked like the back foot was maybe off the ground by time he touched the ball. Anyway, not conclusive to change.

So, no safety.

Those are two odd calls. Not sure how much football you guys caught yesterday as I bet you tailgated and went to the game, but yesterday was very odd. I saw a lot of very odd things yesterday. Arizona State/Wisconsin game, CAN I SAY AKRON!?!?, wasn't yesterday but TCU/Texas Tech, NIU had like 5 personal fouls, UCLA/Nebraska.

Very odd week of football.

I originally thought that it should still be a safety, because the punter committed an illegal touching penalty in the end zone. I had always thought that any penalty in the end zone results in a safety, but apparently that isn't true. I looked through the NCAA rule book, and couldn't find anything clear. I guess what that means is that only certain penalties are safeties when they occur in the end zone.

The other weird thing, is that illegal touching is just supposed to be a loss of down penalty - no yardage. So, I don't understand the 5 yards. Also, don't know what's supposed to happen when there is a loss of down penalty on 4th down.

Maybe someone who referees can clarify?

(09-15-2013 09:48 AM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  I originally thought that it should still be a safety, because the punter committed an illegal touching penalty in the end zone. I had always thought that any penalty in the end zone results in a safety, but apparently that isn't true. I looked through the NCAA rule book, and couldn't find anything clear. I guess what that means is that only certain penalties are safeties when they occur in the end zone.

The other weird thing, is that illegal touching is just supposed to be a loss of down penalty - no yardage. So, I don't understand the 5 yards. Also, don't know what's supposed to happen when there is a loss of down penalty on 4th down.

Maybe someone who referees can clarify?

Interesting thought on loss of down penalties. Also odd that there would be a special case for endzone OOB plays. If a runner goes out of bounds, steps back in and continues to run there's no penalty. Glad they made SOME call because that was the longest punt I've ever seen that never reached ten feet in height.

(09-15-2013 09:48 AM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  I originally thought that it should still be a safety, because the punter committed an illegal touching penalty in the end zone. I had always thought that any penalty in the end zone results in a safety, but apparently that isn't true. I looked through the NCAA rule book, and couldn't find anything clear. I guess what that means is that only certain penalties are safeties when they occur in the end zone.

The other weird thing, is that illegal touching is just supposed to be a loss of down penalty - no yardage. So, I don't understand the 5 yards. Also, don't know what's supposed to happen when there is a loss of down penalty on 4th down.

Maybe someone who referees can clarify?

I agree with the 'penalty in the endzone' thinking. I always thought that caused a safety. Holding results in a safety. Intentional grounding results in a safety.

If an offensive player voluntarily goes out of bounds they are ineligible to be the first player to touch a live ball. It's ok if they're pushed out. Unless there are special rules governing kickers or end zones I would've expected the play to be blown dead when the punter stepped out and back in and touched the ball resulting in a safety. Clearly not how the officials saw it. Not sure why.

Once a player goes out of bounds he can not participate in the play. If the player does come back inbounds and participates it's a five yard penalty for illegal participation. I could find no special mention of enforcement being different for the play occurring in/out of the end zone.