JLARC just issued a timely report regarding spending on athletics by Virginia universities.

RTD Article

Quote:About 12 percent of tuition and fees paid by students at Virginia’s public colleges and universities during the 2012-13 school year went to intercollegiate athletics, the Joint Legislative Audit and Review Commission reported Monday.

Norfolk State had the highest mark at 24 percent. Longwood was next at 19 percent, followed by Old Dominion and Christopher Newport (both 17 percent) and James Madison (16 percent). ...

Quote:...JLARC found that 10 of the state’s public athletic programs generated less than 27 percent of the revenue needed to cover expenses in 2011-12. Only Virginia Tech (89 percent), Virginia (84 percent), VMI (61 percent) and William and Mary (44 percent) were above 26 percent.

With the exception of U.Va. and Virginia Tech, all men’s basketball teams and all football teams in 2011-12 had shortfalls.

The report said Longwood’s student fees increased from $711 to $2,009 during a 10-year period after the school decided to move to Division I in June of 2000.

Old Dominion’s student fees jumped from $641 to $1,185 from 2004-12 after the school decided to restart football.

What revenues are we talking about though? That's what I always question when I read these stories. I think their counting of revenues is very short sighted and probably only includes ticket sales. Does this include the $10 million (or whatever it is) Tech would receive when they go to a BCS bowl? If I go into the bookstore and buy a jersey or a sweatshirt, does that count? How about concessions? And then there are all of the things you can't possibly quantify like donations schools receive due to pride in athletics programs, notoriety for the school, branding, etc. It's nearly impossible to quantify the real revenue amount that these programs bring in.

(09-09-2013 05:33 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  What revenues are we talking about though? That's what I always question when I read these stories. I think their counting of revenues is very short sighted and probably only includes ticket sales. Does this include the $10 million (or whatever it is) Tech would receive when they go to a BCS bowl? If I go into the bookstore and buy a jersey or a sweatshirt, does that count? How about concessions? And then there are all of the things you can't possibly quantify like donations schools receive due to pride in athletics programs, notoriety for the school, branding, etc. It's nearly impossible to quantify the real revenue amount that these programs bring in.

Yeah I always wondered that myself. I imagine the championship, Tech win and team store sales generated from the football team in the last 10 years isn't measured in these x's and o's analysis.

There is an article in the Richmond Times Dispatch concerning the financial accountability of Norfolk State. The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS) team is scheduled to visit the university on Wednesday and Thursday. The university's accreditation is on the line because of financial issues. Perhaps Norfolk State will have to rethink their high student fees going to athletics.

Last year, St. Paul University in Lawrenceville lost their SACS accreditation because of financial issues and went out of business.

It will be interesting to see how much the student fees will increase at ODU when they build their new football stadium.

Will there ever be a cap placed on student fees at public universities?

(09-09-2013 05:33 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  What revenues are we talking about though? That's what I always question when I read these stories. I think their counting of revenues is very short sighted and probably only includes ticket sales. Does this include the $10 million (or whatever it is) Tech would receive when they go to a BCS bowl? If I go into the bookstore and buy a jersey or a sweatshirt, does that count? How about concessions? And then there are all of the things you can't possibly quantify like donations schools receive due to pride in athletics programs, notoriety for the school, branding, etc. It's nearly impossible to quantify the real revenue amount that these programs bring in.

I agree that some things can't be measured, but it looks like the report takes a very broad view of what constitutes revenue.

Quote:...auxiliary revenue accounts for all revenue collected by an auxiliary enterprise, such as ticket sales, facility rentals, and food sales. ...

Quote:...Auxiliary enterprise revenues consist primarily of
student fees, although funds from the general public for parking,
concessions, and merchandise sales, among other things, are also
included. ...

I think that the very fact that student fees tend to rise significantly with increased athletic spending is proof that all the extra revenue that goes along with higher profile athletics doesn't offset the expense. "The thing speaks for itself."

A lot of HBCU's are going to be in financial trouble in the next 10 years.

Nothing really new here and it appears that the legislature is soft-pedaling the matter.

At some point though, the fees gravy train for college athletics prgrams will come to an end. This is just plain wrong. Tuition and fee paying students should not be funding athletic programs to this level . Every reasonable person in the Va legislature understands that and at some point the state universities will have a gradual fix forced upon them. They are incapable of policing themselves as this report demonstrates.

(09-09-2013 05:33 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  What revenues are we talking about though? That's what I always question when I read these stories. I think their counting of revenues is very short sighted and probably only includes ticket sales. Does this include the $10 million (or whatever it is) Tech would receive when they go to a BCS bowl? If I go into the bookstore and buy a jersey or a sweatshirt, does that count? How about concessions? And then there are all of the things you can't possibly quantify like donations schools receive due to pride in athletics programs, notoriety for the school, branding, etc. It's nearly impossible to quantify the real revenue amount that these programs bring in.

I agree with your questioning. Anytime any sports program; professional, collegiate, semi-pro, whatever, reports revenues and expenses you have to question the accounting, because they all play games with the numbers like its one big a shell game.

(09-10-2013 11:22 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  I agree with your questioning. Anytime any enterprise reports revenues and expenses you have to question the accounting, because they all play games with the numbers like its one big a shell game.

FIFY

(09-09-2013 09:34 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  A lot of HBCU's are in financial trouble in the next 10 years.

FIFY.

(09-10-2013 11:22 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 05:33 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  What revenues are we talking about though? That's what I always question when I read these stories. I think their counting of revenues is very short sighted and probably only includes ticket sales. Does this include the $10 million (or whatever it is) Tech would receive when they go to a BCS bowl? If I go into the bookstore and buy a jersey or a sweatshirt, does that count? How about concessions? And then there are all of the things you can't possibly quantify like donations schools receive due to pride in athletics programs, notoriety for the school, branding, etc. It's nearly impossible to quantify the real revenue amount that these programs bring in.

I agree with your questioning. Anytime any sports program; professional, collegiate, semi-pro, whatever, reports revenues and expenses you have to question the accounting, because they all play games with the numbers like its one big a shell game.

I agree. That's why these numbers don't mean a whole lot to me. I mean, look at UVA and Tech's TV contracts in the ACC. We're collecting a bunch of money for final four runs by (former) conference members and making the NCAA tourney this year and winning a game. I just don't feel like the auxiliary revenues are really accounted for and then there's tons of revenue streams that you can't even account for. For example, this may be horrible but I give to the COB every year but if we canceled football or basketball tomorrow, I probably wouldn't. So, you have to take these things with a grain of salt.

(09-11-2013 05:30 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  

(09-10-2013 11:22 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 05:33 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  What revenues are we talking about though? That's what I always question when I read these stories. I think their counting of revenues is very short sighted and probably only includes ticket sales. Does this include the $10 million (or whatever it is) Tech would receive when they go to a BCS bowl? If I go into the bookstore and buy a jersey or a sweatshirt, does that count? How about concessions? And then there are all of the things you can't possibly quantify like donations schools receive due to pride in athletics programs, notoriety for the school, branding, etc. It's nearly impossible to quantify the real revenue amount that these programs bring in.

I agree with your questioning. Anytime any sports program; professional, collegiate, semi-pro, whatever, reports revenues and expenses you have to question the accounting, because they all play games with the numbers like its one big a shell game.

I agree. That's why these numbers don't mean a whole lot to me. I mean, look at UVA and Tech's TV contracts in the ACC. We're collecting a bunch of money for final four runs by (former) conference members and making the NCAA tourney this year and winning a game. I just don't feel like the auxiliary revenues are really accounted for and then there's tons of revenue streams that you can't even account for. For example, this may be horrible but I give to the COB every year but if we canceled football or basketball tomorrow, I probably wouldn't. So, you have to take these things with a grain of salt.

Auxiliary revenue such as TV/Conf/NCAA distributions, Concessions, parking, etc. are included in reported revenue.*

Unless you asked everyone if they were donating to a non athletic fund solely because of athletics and received consistent responses i'm not sure how or why you would even track something like your personal example.

*Edit: At least in VA, now comparing to public institutions outside of VA may be an entirely different story.

[/quote]

I agree. That's why these numbers don't mean a whole lot to me. I mean, look at UVA and Tech's TV contracts in the ACC. We're collecting a bunch of money for final four runs by (former) conference members and making the NCAA tourney this year and winning a game. I just don't feel like the auxiliary revenues are really accounted for and then there's tons of revenue streams that you can't even account for. For example, this may be horrible but I give to the COB every year but if we canceled football or basketball tomorrow, I probably wouldn't. So, you have to take these things with a grain of salt.
[/quote]

Auxiliary revenue such as TV/Conf/NCAA distributions, Concessions, parking, etc. are included in reported revenue.

Unless you asked everyone if they were donating to a non athletic fund solely because of athletics and received consistent responses i'm not sure how or why you would even track something like your personal example.
[/quote]

I think his example is relevant. I wouldn't be as intentional about it, but I think I'd be in the same boat. No doubt I've gotten more involved in giving to other areas of the university because of the connection I maintain through athletics. I'd still make my general, annual donation and look out for the English Dept., but I usually end up playing in a friend's golf tourney for the Madison Business Scholarship Fund even though I'm not a COB guy because it's on a game weekend. Last year I chipped in to a Bonfire fund for Madison Forever spontaneously because I was in Richmond for the CAA tourney with some buddies who were involved. When they first started Madison Forever they pushed it at the football games and I made my first donation right there in BFS. That's the kind of stuff you've GOT to find a way to track.

(09-09-2013 10:16 PM)94Duke Wrote:  Nothing really new here and it appears that the legislature is soft-pedaling the matter.

At some point though, the fees gravy train for college athletics prgrams will come to an end. This is just plain wrong. Tuition and fee paying students should not be funding athletic programs to this level . Every reasonable person in the Va legislature understands that and at some point the state universities will have a gradual fix forced upon them. They are incapable of policing themselves as this report demonstrates.

Looks a gradual fix may be at hand...

RTD LINK

Quote: ...That is why I am introducing legislation in the 2015 General Assembly session that will place caps on mandatory non-educational student fees at public universities.
Under my proposal, the amount of athletic revenue colleges and universities could collect from student fees would be limited. The caps will be structured differently for Virginia’s Division I, II and III schools. Institutions will have five years to incrementally reduce the percentage of athletic revenue they collect from student fees...

I read an article the other day about UAB dropping football. When reading the comments, one kinda struck me funny. Someone mentioned that Alabama (Crimson Tide) made enough money on football that it could help prop UAB's program up. Someone then responded that neither Alabama nor the tax payer should fund UAB's or any other college football program. After reading this, my eyes crossed. It seems so short sighted... If the schools that are funded by fees (or tax payer) dropped sports, specifically football, then Alabama's program would suffer greatly as well. I believe there would be about 4-5 programs who profit off of athletics. That said, how much money would Alabama bring in if there were only 4-5 programs to play?

I understand the issue of tuition and fees. My concern is, how will schools drop tuition rates when costs are much greater than they were 30 years ago (even adjusting for inflation). What made college affordable back in the day more so than it is now?

If the states would just get rid of all the bloat from their own ridiculous government funded programs ( and the salaries to "manage" them), then the states could cover a larger percentage of the cost of an in- state college education. A pie graph of where Virginia tax dollars go is depressing.

(12-18-2014 02:43 PM)HolyCityDuke Wrote:  I read an article the other day about UAB dropping football. When reading the comments, one kinda struck me funny. Someone mentioned that Alabama (Crimson Tide) made enough money on football that it could help prop UAB's program up. Someone then responded that neither Alabama nor the tax payer should fund UAB's or any other college football program. After reading this, my eyes crossed. It seems so short sighted... If the schools that are funded by fees (or tax payer) dropped sports, specifically football, then Alabama's program would suffer greatly as well. I believe there would be about 4-5 programs who profit off of athletics. That said, how much money would Alabama bring in if there were only 4-5 programs to play?

I understand the issue of tuition and fees. My concern is, how will schools drop tuition rates when costs are much greater than they were 30 years ago (even adjusting for inflation). What made college affordable back in the day more so than it is now?

While their overall athletic programs might not, most BCS fb and mens' bb programs make a profit. Bama would still have about 60 teams to play...

I think people severly underestimate the value of exposure as well. If JMU and all of these schools were bleeding money as much as some of the anti-sports people say they are, you would see dozens of schools just scrap althetics (or at least scholarship athletics) ASAP.

I think it's nearly impossible to quantify these things 100% accurately. As a small example, I buy a ton of JMU gear each year either online or sometimes at the bookstore if I'm down for a game. If not for athletics, I probably wouldn't.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/V/V...1400887623

I will post this here (above) regarding pending VA. legislation. It is my contention that a fair amount of deflection is going on here. While college athletics is an expensive venture, the Commonwealth has added greatly to student debt by cutting it's funding of higher education. This Bill points an accusatory finger in the direction of athletics without acknowledging any culpability on the part of our legislature. No surprise there.

http://www.demos.org/publication/virgini...-middle-cl