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question on b12 GOR
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #21
RE: question on b12 GOR
The networks can use the ACC and Big 12 GORs to manipulate realignment (to some extent) if they want to.

Example: Let's suppose the networks decide that the best thing for them is freezing Texas in place in the Big 12. Keeps the Pac, B1G, and SEC from having too much leverage the next time they renegotiate and puts a lid on other significant movement. So ESPN and Fox go to the Big 12 when their current TV deal has 3 or 4 years left on it, and they offer to extend the Big 12 TV deal for another 10-15 years on the condition that the conference extend its GOR for the same amount of time. Either the Big 12 says yes, and significant realignment is pushed off for 10-15 more years, or, if UT and OU refuse to extend the GOR, then everyone has advance notice that they're trying to move and the networks can get to work manipulating the movement that's going to happen.
09-10-2013 12:27 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #22
RE: question on b12 GOR
I see this more as UT eventually demanding the ND type deal with the B12. They'll agree to play OU and the 3 TX schools annually and everyone else rotating through the one remaining spot.

The other 7 games will be used for a "national level schedule" to shore up LHN content and fan interest
09-10-2013 12:29 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #23
RE: question on b12 GOR
(09-10-2013 12:29 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I see this more as UT eventually demanding the ND type deal with the B12. They'll agree to play OU and the 3 TX schools annually and everyone else rotating through the one remaining spot.

The other 7 games will be used for a "national level schedule" to shore up LHN content and fan interest
If they try this, they should lose their Big XII vote regarding any football decisions.
09-10-2013 01:31 PM
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lew240z Offline
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Post: #24
RE: question on b12 GOR
(09-10-2013 12:29 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I see this more as UT eventually demanding the ND type deal with the B12. They'll agree to play OU and the 3 TX schools annually and everyone else rotating through the one remaining spot.

The other 7 games will be used for a "national level schedule" to shore up LHN content and fan interest

Please show us where any official of the University of Texas has ever mentioned this as a possibility.
09-10-2013 01:42 PM
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gotohelltu Offline
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Post: #25
RE: question on b12 GOR
(09-09-2013 03:53 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  As an ACC fanboy, I don't see this as being a get-out-free clause. The question I have is if Texas were playing Brownsville Community College and the B12 TV partners didn't want the game, would the rights revert back to Texas? If so, it might help Texas.

If Texas were to jump to another conference (ACC, SEC, B10 or P12) or even go independent, would the B12 want Texas taking valuable time slots away from B12 schools? That's comparable to the B12 networks showing a UCLA v Washington game, while the B12 teams are off-air.



In practice, if the school leaving was UT or UT and OU, the GOR would become the basis for a negotiated revenue stream as the price of a release.

But if UT and OU ever decide to leave they will likely take Tech and OSU with them and figure out a way to simply blow up the Big XII so that there is no conference left when they depart the scene.
09-10-2013 01:54 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #26
RE: question on b12 GOR
(09-10-2013 01:42 PM)lew240z Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 12:29 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I see this more as UT eventually demanding the ND type deal with the B12. They'll agree to play OU and the 3 TX schools annually and everyone else rotating through the one remaining spot.

The other 7 games will be used for a "national level schedule" to shore up LHN content and fan interest
Please show us where any official of the University of Texas has ever mentioned this as a possibility.
It's not a possibility. It's just people coming up with "what if" scenarios that will allow things to fall they way they want...
09-10-2013 02:30 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #27
RE: question on b12 GOR
It's very much a possibility

If the GOR is coming to an end and they demand this as a condition for staying in the B12...what are the rest going to say? No?
09-10-2013 02:46 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #28
RE: question on b12 GOR
(09-10-2013 02:46 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  It's very much a possibility
No. It isn't. This is the lie that ran around the world before the truth got it's boots on, and every expansionista has picked it up and run with it...
09-10-2013 02:53 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #29
RE: question on b12 GOR
(09-10-2013 12:26 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  The only problem with that theory is the networks don't exactly like this. Think about it: Realignment results in more TV for the conferences, right? Who do you think is paying that extra money? The networks. So why would they help the conferences to be in a position to charge them more money?

Because by structuring it as they see fit they can maximize the content, segregate the best money makers from the lesser productive in viewing numbers and eventually cull the product they do not wish to preserve. And if an upper tier of 60 to 64 teams is put in place and separated from the others in FBS it will eventually lead to paying fewer teams more and many teams less than they are currently paying out. Content will be up and ad revenue will rise accordingly with better match ups and fewer conferences with larger drawing schools.

Whatever happens next will still be just part of the initial phase of structuring the product.
09-10-2013 03:14 PM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #30
RE: question on b12 GOR
Retained Rights is a defined term that is not defined within the excerpt you provide. I infer from the rights that Texas and other members are selling to third party providers that these rights include 1 FB game and 5-6 men's BB games. This does not appear to be a sufficient package of rights to join another conference as a full member.
09-10-2013 04:12 PM
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Post: #31
RE: question on b12 GOR
(09-09-2013 04:00 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  But Texas isn't jumping to another conference. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Texas stand pat, rather than move to another conference where they'd just be another member, and not the top dog...

IMO that's the only option for a program with an ego the size of the State of Texas...

Yes, the talk of Texas going to another conference is silly. Texas likes being the Big Steer and they wouldn't be in any other conference.
09-10-2013 04:16 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #32
RE: question on b12 GOR
(09-10-2013 03:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 12:26 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  The only problem with that theory is the networks don't exactly like this. Think about it: Realignment results in more TV for the conferences, right? Who do you think is paying that extra money? The networks. So why would they help the conferences to be in a position to charge them more money?

Because by structuring it as they see fit they can maximize the content, segregate the best money makers from the lesser productive in viewing numbers and eventually cull the product they do not wish to preserve. And if an upper tier of 60 to 64 teams is put in place and separated from the others in FBS it will eventually lead to paying fewer teams more and many teams less than they are currently paying out. Content will be up and ad revenue will rise accordingly with better match ups and fewer conferences with larger drawing schools.

Whatever happens next will still be just part of the initial phase of structuring the product.

They already have that and at a lower price. Super conferences are NOT what networks want. Case in point: they way ESPN is fine with losing money on the LHN because it prevented the super conferences. THEY DO NOT WANT THAT ONE BIT
09-10-2013 04:50 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: question on b12 GOR
ESPN doesnt want the LHN because it wanted to keep the b12 intact.....

they wanted the LHN because they were jealous the NBC owned ND and wanted a school for themselves to "own" as well
09-10-2013 05:19 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #34
RE: question on b12 GOR
That was a more specific case because at the time, you had the possibility of the Big 12 South sans Baylor + Colorado going to the PAC, a conference that ESPN did not have locked down.

In ESPNs mind, the LHN was worth preventing the scenario where Fox landed THAT super conference PAC 16 and effectively controlled almost all of major CFB west of I-35.

Now if ESPN had total control of the PAC before and saw a chance to move the major B12 programs away from a B12 that partly went to Fox into their 100% control, their attitude would have been completely different.
09-10-2013 05:22 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #35
RE: question on b12 GOR
(09-10-2013 04:50 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 03:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 12:26 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  The only problem with that theory is the networks don't exactly like this. Think about it: Realignment results in more TV for the conferences, right? Who do you think is paying that extra money? The networks. So why would they help the conferences to be in a position to charge them more money?

Because by structuring it as they see fit they can maximize the content, segregate the best money makers from the lesser productive in viewing numbers and eventually cull the product they do not wish to preserve. And if an upper tier of 60 to 64 teams is put in place and separated from the others in FBS it will eventually lead to paying fewer teams more and many teams less than they are currently paying out. Content will be up and ad revenue will rise accordingly with better match ups and fewer conferences with larger drawing schools.

Whatever happens next will still be just part of the initial phase of structuring the product.

They already have that and at a lower price. Super conferences are NOT what networks want. Case in point: they way ESPN is fine with losing money on the LHN because it prevented the super conferences. THEY DO NOT WANT THAT ONE BIT

You are reading the tea leaves incorrectly. ESPN didn't want Texas in the PAC because they don't have control over the top money earner in the NCAA if they join the PAC which is self owned. The LHN was an effort to hold the Horns in a position that ESPN had some, not total influence over. I'm sure that ESPN would love to have Texas in the ACC either fully or in part if it were possible because there they would own a much larger percentage of them.

Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and to a lesser extent West Virginia all would be worth much more on a weekly basis if they were in another conference. Add Texas and Oklahoma to Ohio State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and Penn State and the content value is multiplied in the Big 10. FOX would love that. ESPN wouldn't. The same grouping in the SEC would be a knockout on content. ESPN would love it. FOX wouldn't. Kansas immediately improves the SEC profile in basketball or strengthens basketball content for the Big 10 or the ACC. West Virginia adds great regional content to the SEC or ACC. But, right now the Mountaineers are the only sports property of value in football East of the Mississippi that FOX has a stake in. The Big 12 is a great stalemate position to hold until these issues can be resolved.

To make sense of this you need to look at the whole conference realignment scenario as if it was a hostile corporate takeover of a smaller company. They are going to sell off the lesser productive products (and indeed they are already minimizing overhead by selling off pieces of the rights to inventory, and maximizing profits by grouping the strongest products together). Only, in television, there needs to be a balance of interesting products throughout all regions of the country. Whether the country is divided into 3 regions or 4 remains to be seen. Right now we are really dealing with the North, South, and West. The ACC is an interesting hybrid but the Big 12 is essentially 5 states and only 1 of those dynamic enough to be extremely valuable, Texas.

All of the talking heads among college presidents, head coaches, and athletic directors have said they are looking at an upper tier of between 60 to 70 schools. Since no TV network owns the PAC the conferences of interest to the networks are the Big 10, ACC, and SEC. The battle is over who gets the most valuable product of the Big 12 and which teams of lesser value must be brokered to make it happen. Blurred regional boundaries add interest to regional content when a team from Texas let's say is playing in the PAC, and another in the Big 10, and another in the SEC. When those teams play each other the potential interest of 2 regions are brought into play for that game. This too maximizes advertising profits. So when the networks work out how to divide the assets of the Big 12 and optimize the value of lesser valued regional teams something will happen.

Why? The networks want a discernible structure to drive the new playoff model and to expand the playoffs. If all 4 conferences have 4 regional division then you start with 16 teams eligible for the National Championship and that holds viewers in their place from all 4 regions of the country right through the semi-finals. And that maximizes profits as well. The playoff will become the ice cream and the bowls will become the topping to finish of the final treats of the season.

Once such a structure is in place the value of all teams outside of this mix will diminish to the networks. The rich get a bit richer, and the poor a bit poorer. And the corporate takeover of an undervalued (and yes it was for many reasons) product will be complete right down to the grouping of the most profitable and the sell off the lesser product.

Live sports are the cheapest product in terms of cost of production of anything on television. When it is a popular sport ad rates will maximize. An upper tier of popular well watched teams playing essentially just each other is solid gold in the bank each week of the season, and throughout the extended season of conference playoffs and bowls. And those my friend are the facts of life from a corporate perspective. Low overhead + maximum profit - expenses for mediocre product = Bonanza for the Networks.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2013 05:49 PM by JRsec.)
09-10-2013 05:41 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #36
RE: question on b12 GOR
(09-10-2013 05:41 PM)JRsec Wrote:  ESPN didn't want Texas in the PAC because they don't have control over the top money earner in the NCAA if they join the PAC which is self owned.

The Pac owns its own conference network, but other than that the media-rights ownership isn't significantly different from that of any other major conference.
09-10-2013 05:49 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #37
RE: question on b12 GOR
(09-10-2013 05:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 05:41 PM)JRsec Wrote:  ESPN didn't want Texas in the PAC because they don't have control over the top money earner in the NCAA if they join the PAC which is self owned.

The Pac owns its own conference network, but other than that the media-rights ownership isn't significantly different from that of any other major conference.

True. But, that doesn't change the reasoning behind ESPN's retention of the Horns.
09-10-2013 06:04 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #38
RE: question on b12 GOR
(09-10-2013 06:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 05:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 05:41 PM)JRsec Wrote:  ESPN didn't want Texas in the PAC because they don't have control over the top money earner in the NCAA if they join the PAC which is self owned.
The Pac owns its own conference network, but other than that the media-rights ownership isn't significantly different from that of any other major conference.
True. But, that doesn't change the reasoning behind ESPN's retention of the Horns.
And you assume FOX isn't willing to bid against ESPiN for the rights? By the time the contract for the LHN is up for renewal, they should have their carrier problems resolved, making it more profitable for whoever gets the rights. FOX could easily reap most of the benefit of ESPiN's hard work on the LHN, if they take over the contract when it comes up for renewal...

ESPiN has definitely had a big hand in the growth of the ACC, as well as the demolition of The BEast. But they aren't the only player in the game...
09-10-2013 06:10 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #39
RE: question on b12 GOR
(09-10-2013 06:10 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 06:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 05:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 05:41 PM)JRsec Wrote:  ESPN didn't want Texas in the PAC because they don't have control over the top money earner in the NCAA if they join the PAC which is self owned.
The Pac owns its own conference network, but other than that the media-rights ownership isn't significantly different from that of any other major conference.
True. But, that doesn't change the reasoning behind ESPN's retention of the Horns.
And you assume FOX isn't willing to bid against ESPiN for the rights? By the time the contract for the LHN is up for renewal, they should have their carrier problems resolved, making it more profitable for whoever gets the rights. FOX could easily reap most of the benefit of ESPiN's hard work on the LHN, if they take over the contract when it comes up for renewal...

ESPiN has definitely had a big hand in the growth of the ACC, as well as the demolition of The BEast. But they aren't the only player in the game...
No, I didn't assume anything. XLance pointed out that most of the contracts are now in Network hands with the GOR's. What I pointed out was that places them in the hands of the group (the networks) who can most easily broker out any further changes. The implications of such would be ESPN and FOX working together to facilitate any further realignment. Of course if that doesn't transpire what you suggest could result. But since the placement of less valuable teams will be essential should the Big 12 be parsed then brokering seems to be the most effective way for the networks to handle what would be a very sticky and nasty mess for the conferences. That's why in another post I stated that if there is another round of expansion it will all be handled behind closed doors with no rumors involved, and then followed, at an agreed upon date, by an announcement of the final moves.

If I had to guess the conference commissioners would indicate the teams they were interested in, the teams would indicate their conference preferences, and the networks would have that as a starting point.
09-10-2013 06:42 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #40
RE: question on b12 GOR
JR, because this discussion is a rehashing of months and months of the same thing over and over, I really do not have the energy to start this up again. But you are WAAAAYY off base on what the Networks want. Networks, like anyone else, want to buy properties at the lowest prices they can. The REASON conferences have been consolidating is because it gives them leverage to charge more on a per team basis. It does not take much more discussion to prove that assisting conferences in consolidation is NOT in the best interests of networks, as it causes them to pay more for the same product. Especially since larger and larger conferences, essentially mirror the two of smaller conferences that once existed that competed with each other for time slots, bringing the prices down, joined together showing the same product only at a higher price. All of the stuff you said above, not only is not true from their perspective, it doesn't even make sense, logically, financially, or in a common sense evaluation.
09-11-2013 09:56 AM
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