(09-09-2013 08:35 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if Virginia had played The Citadel this week instead of Oregon, after what BYU did to Texas, good chance UVA would have been ranked this week as well. We scheduled ourselves out of that one. BYU was a tough enough game and a good win. No need to try to take on Oregon on a week's prep.

Yep. I'll add to that this - if Syracuse had not played N'Western (and lost big), then N'Western might not be ranked as high as they are, thus making room for UVa... This REALLY IS A GROUP EFFORT. Unless you schedule like Notre Dame and go undefeated every year, you need the other members of the conference to schedule wisely, because everything affects everything else.

As it is, FSU has at least 3 ranked opponents remaining (Clemson, Miami, Florida), Ga Tech has 3 (Clemson, BYU, Georgia), and Clemson has 3 (already played Georgia, still have FSU, Ga Tech, S Carolina). Even Va Tech has 2 (Ga Tech, Miami). Then whoever wins the 2 division will play each other... that is plenty of SoS, IMO.

(09-09-2013 08:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:35 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if Virginia had played The Citadel this week instead of Oregon, after what BYU did to Texas, good chance UVA would have been ranked this week as well. We scheduled ourselves out of that one. BYU was a tough enough game and a good win. No need to try to take on Oregon on a week's prep.

Yep. I'll add to that this - if Syracuse had not played N'Western (and lost big), then N'Western might not be ranked as high as they are, thus making room for UVa... This REALLY IS A GROUP EFFORT. Unless you schedule like Notre Dame and go undefeated every year, you need the other members of the conference to schedule wisely, because everything affects everything else.

As it is, FSU has at least 3 ranked opponents remaining (Clemson, Miami, Florida), Ga Tech has 3 (Clemson, BYU, Georgia), and Clemson has 3 (already played Georgia, still have FSU, Ga Tech, S Carolina). Even Va Tech has 2 (Ga Tech, Miami). Then whoever wins the 2 division will play each other... that is plenty of SoS, IMO.

Obviously, every school is on a different level and has different goals. But it really breaks down to two very, very simple rules of thumb, which almost every single other team in every conference adheres to...

1) Do not schedule two OOC games in which you will likely be underdogs.

2) Do not schedule an OOC game in which you don't have a realistic chance to win.

Obviously, you don't know for sure who will be underdogs, but a lot of time you do. When UVA added Oregon, they knew that would be a second underdog game. When Syracuse added MD to next year's schedule last week, even before the NW game, they should have known that was a likely second underdog game. If you aren't sure, don't do it.

Same for the second one. Yes, USC seems slightly more winnable than anyone would have expected for BC, but still. 9 times out of 10 that game has no business being scheduled.

I'm not saying everyone has to play all cupcakes every year, which is always the response when I suggest that schools in the middle and lower classes of the ACC don't schedule to get their brains kicked in before the conference starts.

That Oregon game, on one week's prep, with Oregon getting a tune up, is simply indefensible. And they JUST added it. It's not like the game was scheduled ten years ago.

Everyone BUT the ACC knows this.

(09-09-2013 09:24 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:35 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if Virginia had played The Citadel this week instead of Oregon, after what BYU did to Texas, good chance UVA would have been ranked this week as well. We scheduled ourselves out of that one. BYU was a tough enough game and a good win. No need to try to take on Oregon on a week's prep.

Yep. I'll add to that this - if Syracuse had not played N'Western (and lost big), then N'Western might not be ranked as high as they are, thus making room for UVa... This REALLY IS A GROUP EFFORT. Unless you schedule like Notre Dame and go undefeated every year, you need the other members of the conference to schedule wisely, because everything affects everything else.

As it is, FSU has at least 3 ranked opponents remaining (Clemson, Miami, Florida), Ga Tech has 3 (Clemson, BYU, Georgia), and Clemson has 3 (already played Georgia, still have FSU, Ga Tech, S Carolina). Even Va Tech has 2 (Ga Tech, Miami). Then whoever wins the 2 division will play each other... that is plenty of SoS, IMO.

Obviously, every school is on a different level and has different goals. But it really breaks down to two very, very simple rules of thumb, which almost every single other team in every conference adheres to...

1) Do not schedule two OOC games in which you will likely be underdogs.

2) Do not schedule an OOC game in which you don't have a realistic chance to win.

Obviously, you don't know for sure who will be underdogs, but a lot of time you do. When UVA added Oregon, they knew that would be a second underdog game. When Syracuse added MD to next year's schedule last week, even before the NW game, they should have known that was a likely second underdog game. If you aren't sure, don't do it.

Same for the second one. Yes, USC seems slightly more winnable than anyone would have expected for BC, but still. 9 times out of 10 that game has no business being scheduled.

I'm not saying everyone has to play all cupcakes every year, which is always the response when I suggest that schools in the middle and lower classes of the ACC don't schedule to get their brains kicked in before the conference starts.

That Oregon game, on one week's prep, with Oregon getting a tune up, is simply indefensible. And they JUST added it. It's not like the game was scheduled ten years ago.

Everyone BUT the ACC knows this.

3) Do not schedule any FCS opponents.

(09-09-2013 12:16 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 09:24 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:35 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if Virginia had played The Citadel this week instead of Oregon, after what BYU did to Texas, good chance UVA would have been ranked this week as well. We scheduled ourselves out of that one. BYU was a tough enough game and a good win. No need to try to take on Oregon on a week's prep.

Yep. I'll add to that this - if Syracuse had not played N'Western (and lost big), then N'Western might not be ranked as high as they are, thus making room for UVa... This REALLY IS A GROUP EFFORT. Unless you schedule like Notre Dame and go undefeated every year, you need the other members of the conference to schedule wisely, because everything affects everything else.

As it is, FSU has at least 3 ranked opponents remaining (Clemson, Miami, Florida), Ga Tech has 3 (Clemson, BYU, Georgia), and Clemson has 3 (already played Georgia, still have FSU, Ga Tech, S Carolina). Even Va Tech has 2 (Ga Tech, Miami). Then whoever wins the 2 division will play each other... that is plenty of SoS, IMO.

Obviously, every school is on a different level and has different goals. But it really breaks down to two very, very simple rules of thumb, which almost every single other team in every conference adheres to...

1) Do not schedule two OOC games in which you will likely be underdogs.

2) Do not schedule an OOC game in which you don't have a realistic chance to win.

Obviously, you don't know for sure who will be underdogs, but a lot of time you do. When UVA added Oregon, they knew that would be a second underdog game. When Syracuse added MD to next year's schedule last week, even before the NW game, they should have known that was a likely second underdog game. If you aren't sure, don't do it.

Same for the second one. Yes, USC seems slightly more winnable than anyone would have expected for BC, but still. 9 times out of 10 that game has no business being scheduled.

I'm not saying everyone has to play all cupcakes every year, which is always the response when I suggest that schools in the middle and lower classes of the ACC don't schedule to get their brains kicked in before the conference starts.

That Oregon game, on one week's prep, with Oregon getting a tune up, is simply indefensible. And they JUST added it. It's not like the game was scheduled ten years ago.

Everyone BUT the ACC knows this.

3) Do not schedule any FCS opponents.

Great idea. I don't want to play Savannah State next weekend. That's a crap-tastic matchup. We'll win I'm sure (they just lost to Troy 66-3 or something), but why not play an FBS team that counts more like Akron or Tulane? They still suck but at least they aren't FCS...

(09-09-2013 12:16 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 09:24 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:35 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if Virginia had played The Citadel this week instead of Oregon, after what BYU did to Texas, good chance UVA would have been ranked this week as well. We scheduled ourselves out of that one. BYU was a tough enough game and a good win. No need to try to take on Oregon on a week's prep.

Yep. I'll add to that this - if Syracuse had not played N'Western (and lost big), then N'Western might not be ranked as high as they are, thus making room for UVa... This REALLY IS A GROUP EFFORT. Unless you schedule like Notre Dame and go undefeated every year, you need the other members of the conference to schedule wisely, because everything affects everything else.

As it is, FSU has at least 3 ranked opponents remaining (Clemson, Miami, Florida), Ga Tech has 3 (Clemson, BYU, Georgia), and Clemson has 3 (already played Georgia, still have FSU, Ga Tech, S Carolina). Even Va Tech has 2 (Ga Tech, Miami). Then whoever wins the 2 division will play each other... that is plenty of SoS, IMO.

Obviously, every school is on a different level and has different goals. But it really breaks down to two very, very simple rules of thumb, which almost every single other team in every conference adheres to...

1) Do not schedule two OOC games in which you will likely be underdogs.

2) Do not schedule an OOC game in which you don't have a realistic chance to win.

Obviously, you don't know for sure who will be underdogs, but a lot of time you do. When UVA added Oregon, they knew that would be a second underdog game. When Syracuse added MD to next year's schedule last week, even before the NW game, they should have known that was a likely second underdog game. If you aren't sure, don't do it.

Same for the second one. Yes, USC seems slightly more winnable than anyone would have expected for BC, but still. 9 times out of 10 that game has no business being scheduled.

I'm not saying everyone has to play all cupcakes every year, which is always the response when I suggest that schools in the middle and lower classes of the ACC don't schedule to get their brains kicked in before the conference starts.

That Oregon game, on one week's prep, with Oregon getting a tune up, is simply indefensible. And they JUST added it. It's not like the game was scheduled ten years ago.

Everyone BUT the ACC knows this.

3) Do not schedule any FCS opponents.

Until playing FCS opponents is outlawed, the ACC needs to continue to schedule one FCS opponent just like everyone else does. Ludicrous to think otherwise, as well as being expensive.

(09-09-2013 01:53 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 12:16 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 09:24 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:35 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if Virginia had played The Citadel this week instead of Oregon, after what BYU did to Texas, good chance UVA would have been ranked this week as well. We scheduled ourselves out of that one. BYU was a tough enough game and a good win. No need to try to take on Oregon on a week's prep.

Yep. I'll add to that this - if Syracuse had not played N'Western (and lost big), then N'Western might not be ranked as high as they are, thus making room for UVa... This REALLY IS A GROUP EFFORT. Unless you schedule like Notre Dame and go undefeated every year, you need the other members of the conference to schedule wisely, because everything affects everything else.

As it is, FSU has at least 3 ranked opponents remaining (Clemson, Miami, Florida), Ga Tech has 3 (Clemson, BYU, Georgia), and Clemson has 3 (already played Georgia, still have FSU, Ga Tech, S Carolina). Even Va Tech has 2 (Ga Tech, Miami). Then whoever wins the 2 division will play each other... that is plenty of SoS, IMO.

Obviously, every school is on a different level and has different goals. But it really breaks down to two very, very simple rules of thumb, which almost every single other team in every conference adheres to...

1) Do not schedule two OOC games in which you will likely be underdogs.

2) Do not schedule an OOC game in which you don't have a realistic chance to win.

Obviously, you don't know for sure who will be underdogs, but a lot of time you do. When UVA added Oregon, they knew that would be a second underdog game. When Syracuse added MD to next year's schedule last week, even before the NW game, they should have known that was a likely second underdog game. If you aren't sure, don't do it.

Same for the second one. Yes, USC seems slightly more winnable than anyone would have expected for BC, but still. 9 times out of 10 that game has no business being scheduled.

I'm not saying everyone has to play all cupcakes every year, which is always the response when I suggest that schools in the middle and lower classes of the ACC don't schedule to get their brains kicked in before the conference starts.

That Oregon game, on one week's prep, with Oregon getting a tune up, is simply indefensible. And they JUST added it. It's not like the game was scheduled ten years ago.

Everyone BUT the ACC knows this.

3) Do not schedule any FCS opponents.

Until playing FCS opponents is outlawed, the ACC needs to continue to schedule one FCS opponent just like everyone else does. Ludicrous to think otherwise, as well as being expensive.

Yup. Can't believe people would actually argue otherwise. Guess that's the thought process of the incredible ACC for ya.

(09-09-2013 03:01 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 01:53 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 12:16 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 09:24 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Yep. I'll add to that this - if Syracuse had not played N'Western (and lost big), then N'Western might not be ranked as high as they are, thus making room for UVa... This REALLY IS A GROUP EFFORT. Unless you schedule like Notre Dame and go undefeated every year, you need the other members of the conference to schedule wisely, because everything affects everything else.

As it is, FSU has at least 3 ranked opponents remaining (Clemson, Miami, Florida), Ga Tech has 3 (Clemson, BYU, Georgia), and Clemson has 3 (already played Georgia, still have FSU, Ga Tech, S Carolina). Even Va Tech has 2 (Ga Tech, Miami). Then whoever wins the 2 division will play each other... that is plenty of SoS, IMO.

Obviously, every school is on a different level and has different goals. But it really breaks down to two very, very simple rules of thumb, which almost every single other team in every conference adheres to...

1) Do not schedule two OOC games in which you will likely be underdogs.

2) Do not schedule an OOC game in which you don't have a realistic chance to win.

Obviously, you don't know for sure who will be underdogs, but a lot of time you do. When UVA added Oregon, they knew that would be a second underdog game. When Syracuse added MD to next year's schedule last week, even before the NW game, they should have known that was a likely second underdog game. If you aren't sure, don't do it.

Same for the second one. Yes, USC seems slightly more winnable than anyone would have expected for BC, but still. 9 times out of 10 that game has no business being scheduled.

I'm not saying everyone has to play all cupcakes every year, which is always the response when I suggest that schools in the middle and lower classes of the ACC don't schedule to get their brains kicked in before the conference starts.

That Oregon game, on one week's prep, with Oregon getting a tune up, is simply indefensible. And they JUST added it. It's not like the game was scheduled ten years ago.

Everyone BUT the ACC knows this.

3) Do not schedule any FCS opponents.

Until playing FCS opponents is outlawed, the ACC needs to continue to schedule one FCS opponent just like everyone else does. Ludicrous to think otherwise, as well as being expensive.

Yup. Can't believe people would actually argue otherwise. Guess that's the thought process of the incredible ACCBBS for ya.

FIFY. No ACC team is actually considering this.

(09-09-2013 09:24 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:35 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if Virginia had played The Citadel this week instead of Oregon, after what BYU did to Texas, good chance UVA would have been ranked this week as well. We scheduled ourselves out of that one. BYU was a tough enough game and a good win. No need to try to take on Oregon on a week's prep.

Yep. I'll add to that this - if Syracuse had not played N'Western (and lost big), then N'Western might not be ranked as high as they are, thus making room for UVa... This REALLY IS A GROUP EFFORT. Unless you schedule like Notre Dame and go undefeated every year, you need the other members of the conference to schedule wisely, because everything affects everything else.

As it is, FSU has at least 3 ranked opponents remaining (Clemson, Miami, Florida), Ga Tech has 3 (Clemson, BYU, Georgia), and Clemson has 3 (already played Georgia, still have FSU, Ga Tech, S Carolina). Even Va Tech has 2 (Ga Tech, Miami). Then whoever wins the 2 division will play each other... that is plenty of SoS, IMO.

Obviously, every school is on a different level and has different goals. But it really breaks down to two very, very simple rules of thumb, which almost every single other team in every conference adheres to...

1) Do not schedule two OOC games in which you will likely be underdogs.

2) Do not schedule an OOC game in which you don't have a realistic chance to win.

Obviously, you don't know for sure who will be underdogs, but a lot of time you do. When UVA added Oregon, they knew that would be a second underdog game. When Syracuse added MD to next year's schedule last week, even before the NW game, they should have known that was a likely second underdog game. If you aren't sure, don't do it.

Same for the second one. Yes, USC seems slightly more winnable than anyone would have expected for BC, but still. 9 times out of 10 that game has no business being scheduled.

I'm not saying everyone has to play all cupcakes every year, which is always the response when I suggest that schools in the middle and lower classes of the ACC don't schedule to get their brains kicked in before the conference starts.

That Oregon game, on one week's prep, with Oregon getting a tune up, is simply indefensible. And they JUST added it. It's not like the game was scheduled ten years ago.

Everyone BUT the ACC knows this.

I actually think that SU has a chance to not be dogs. The two things that are KILLING us is are poor execution and a lack of a QB. Hopefully the players will understand the system better next year, so communication will be better (no more COMPLETELY blown coverages) and hopefully a better QB situation. We'll have a QB with experience with the team in the system (our current backup who might actually be in our starter next game).

The Big Ten is actually at least highly recommending against any newly scheduled FCS teams. I kind of think it's a mistake, but I don't expect to see any new ones scheduled that aren't already on the schedule.

I mean in the meantime I have no problems with it, wins are wins and FCS teams are usually wins. I think the risks are there but I can live with it. I think in the long run scheduling bad FBS teams might be better, but what can you do.

(09-09-2013 11:32 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The Big Ten is actually at least highly recommending against any newly scheduled FCS teams. I kind of think it's a mistake, but I don't expect to see any new ones scheduled that aren't already on the schedule.

They're doing it so there's no chance a 1 loss B1G school will be left out of the playoffs starting next year. Having no FCS schools on their schedule or any conference opponents schedule will help in the SOS and RPI if the committee decides to implement something like that.

(09-10-2013 02:24 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 11:32 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The Big Ten is actually at least highly recommending against any newly scheduled FCS teams. I kind of think it's a mistake, but I don't expect to see any new ones scheduled that aren't already on the schedule.

They're doing it so there's no chance a 1 loss B1G school will be left out of the playoffs starting next year. Having no FCS schools on their schedule or any conference opponents schedule will help in the SOS and RPI if the committee decides to implement something like that.

IMO the Big Ten are trying to fool the pollsters... Yes, they play fewer FCS teams, but they also play fewer P5 teams. The majority of the B1G OOC games are vs. G5 (mostly MAC) teams. (for my summary, see Wk 2 - conferences).

The B1G is 4-0 against P5 (2-0 vs. Syracuse, so only 2 other games!), whereas the ACC is 3-5 vs. P5 (but besides Syracuse the other 3 losses are to Alabama, Oregon and S.Carolina). Meanwhile, the ACC is 8-0 vs. G5 but the B1G is 12-3 vs G5/FBS.

The ACC continues to be the only conference without a loss to a G5 or FCS team. That speaks well of the depth of the conference.

The Big Ten is adjusting to the new set-up. Ohio State had started scheduling 2 home and homes instead of 1 each year until the 9 game conference schedule came again. We are going to 9 conference games starting in 2016 which does automatically mean at least 9 games vs. power 5 and I think the trend in scheduling for the conference means 10 for most, most years. Everyone wants 7 home games so expect the following for most Big Ten teams every year after the transition is done.

9 conference games
1 home and home out of conference game
2 one and done games

(09-09-2013 09:24 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:35 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if Virginia had played The Citadel this week instead of Oregon, after what BYU did to Texas, good chance UVA would have been ranked this week as well. We scheduled ourselves out of that one. BYU was a tough enough game and a good win. No need to try to take on Oregon on a week's prep.

Yep. I'll add to that this - if Syracuse had not played N'Western (and lost big), then N'Western might not be ranked as high as they are, thus making room for UVa... This REALLY IS A GROUP EFFORT. Unless you schedule like Notre Dame and go undefeated every year, you need the other members of the conference to schedule wisely, because everything affects everything else.

As it is, FSU has at least 3 ranked opponents remaining (Clemson, Miami, Florida), Ga Tech has 3 (Clemson, BYU, Georgia), and Clemson has 3 (already played Georgia, still have FSU, Ga Tech, S Carolina). Even Va Tech has 2 (Ga Tech, Miami). Then whoever wins the 2 division will play each other... that is plenty of SoS, IMO.

Obviously, every school is on a different level and has different goals. But it really breaks down to two very, very simple rules of thumb, which almost every single other team in every conference adheres to...

1) Do not schedule two OOC games in which you will likely be underdogs.

2) Do not schedule an OOC game in which you don't have a realistic chance to win.

Obviously, you don't know for sure who will be underdogs, but a lot of time you do. When UVA added Oregon, they knew that would be a second underdog game. When Syracuse added MD to next year's schedule last week, even before the NW game, they should have known that was a likely second underdog game. If you aren't sure, don't do it.

Same for the second one. Yes, USC seems slightly more winnable than anyone would have expected for BC, but still. 9 times out of 10 that game has no business being scheduled.

I'm not saying everyone has to play all cupcakes every year, which is always the response when I suggest that schools in the middle and lower classes of the ACC don't schedule to get their brains kicked in before the conference starts.

That Oregon game, on one week's prep, with Oregon getting a tune up, is simply indefensible. And they JUST added it. It's not like the game was scheduled ten years ago.

Everyone BUT the ACC knows this.

This won't happen at Syracuse. The AD at Syracuse believes in taking on anyone, anywhere, anytime. The schedule sometimes borders on being ridiculously difficult. The AD is really good at networking so he does not have a problem getting games with top notch opposition.
I realize its not going to help the strength of schedule for the ACC teams as the team will be middle of the pack for the next year or two, but why should Syracuse care.
On the flip side when Syracuse gets better and wins these out of conference games then teams shooting for the playoff will get a boost if they can beat Syracuse.
If the ACC teams want to be in the playoff they should probably play better out of conference teams because you cannot really count on the ACC being good year in and year out.

(09-09-2013 08:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:35 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if Virginia had played The Citadel this week instead of Oregon, after what BYU did to Texas, good chance UVA would have been ranked this week as well. We scheduled ourselves out of that one. BYU was a tough enough game and a good win. No need to try to take on Oregon on a week's prep.

Yep. I'll add to that this - if Syracuse had not played N'Western (and lost big), then N'Western might not be ranked as high as they are, thus making room for UVa... This REALLY IS A GROUP EFFORT. Unless you schedule like Notre Dame and go undefeated every year, you need the other members of the conference to schedule wisely, because everything affects everything else.

As it is, FSU has at least 3 ranked opponents remaining (Clemson, Miami, Florida), Ga Tech has 3 (Clemson, BYU, Georgia), and Clemson has 3 (already played Georgia, still have FSU, Ga Tech, S Carolina). Even Va Tech has 2 (Ga Tech, Miami). Then whoever wins the 2 division will play each other... that is plenty of SoS, IMO.

Doesn't this work the other way as well though. Syracuse is not going to schedule a bunch of weak teams. Usually, its one of the toughest schedules but if we win a lot of these games then that would bring up the strength of schedule if they can beat Syracuse.
Syracuse can be tough at home and have a history of beating highly ranked opponents at home.

(09-10-2013 11:33 PM)tj_2009 Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:35 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if Virginia had played The Citadel this week instead of Oregon, after what BYU did to Texas, good chance UVA would have been ranked this week as well. We scheduled ourselves out of that one. BYU was a tough enough game and a good win. No need to try to take on Oregon on a week's prep.

Yep. I'll add to that this - if Syracuse had not played N'Western (and lost big), then N'Western might not be ranked as high as they are, thus making room for UVa... This REALLY IS A GROUP EFFORT. Unless you schedule like Notre Dame and go undefeated every year, you need the other members of the conference to schedule wisely, because everything affects everything else.

As it is, FSU has at least 3 ranked opponents remaining (Clemson, Miami, Florida), Ga Tech has 3 (Clemson, BYU, Georgia), and Clemson has 3 (already played Georgia, still have FSU, Ga Tech, S Carolina). Even Va Tech has 2 (Ga Tech, Miami). Then whoever wins the 2 division will play each other... that is plenty of SoS, IMO.

Doesn't this work the other way as well though. Syracuse is not going to schedule a bunch of weak teams. Usually, its one of the toughest schedules but if we win a lot of these games then that would bring up the strength of schedule if they can beat Syracuse.
Syracuse can be tough at home and have a history of beating highly ranked opponents at home.

Which is exactly the problem and one of the reasons the ACC has looked bad a lot over the years.

See, if Syracuse beats Clemson, Clemson is going to drop to about #23, and Syracuse is still going to be nowhere near ranked.

If Syracuse had come in to the Clemson game 4-0, and beaten Clemson, Clemson would fall to about #16, and Syracuse would be ranked as well.

That's what happens in the other conferences, some of the shine rubs off each other. If Syracuse wins, there will be zero talk about Syracuse, and all about Clemson. If Syracuse was 4-0, Syracuse would be a big part of the story.

I get that "it's what Syracuse does", but if they continue to take 2 losses OOC every single year, which is what they have done for years in the Big East, they turn out to be a terrible addition for ACC football. Syracuse winning 5 and 6 games, but knocking off a Louisville, Clemson or Florida State may be the Syracuse way, but it's nothing but suck for the conference.

And when people say "when Syracuse is good again", good luck with that. Syracuse needs a massive talent upgrade, and that's going to be impossible to come by when they are one of 3-4 ACC teams missing bowl games.

I get the appeal of the Syracuse philosophy...as a Florida State fan, most of us still want our four OOC games to be Florida, Nebraska, USC and Notre Dame every year.

But what works is absolutely proven. For a bad program to continue to schedule 2 out of conference losses, which is what Syracuse did in the Big East the last 5-6 years, there is absolutely zero schools that you can point to for which that allowed them to get better and get to the next level. I can point to a dozen that got to the next level by doing the opposite.

It's like Syracuse refused to adopt the forward pass, because that's not how men play football.

(09-11-2013 08:34 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  It's like Syracuse refused to adopt the forward pass, because that's not how men play football.

Lou, have you SEEN a Syracuse game this year? One look at that QB and you'll realize they HAVE abandoned the forward pass...

(09-11-2013 08:34 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-10-2013 11:33 PM)tj_2009 Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:35 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if Virginia had played The Citadel this week instead of Oregon, after what BYU did to Texas, good chance UVA would have been ranked this week as well. We scheduled ourselves out of that one. BYU was a tough enough game and a good win. No need to try to take on Oregon on a week's prep.

Yep. I'll add to that this - if Syracuse had not played N'Western (and lost big), then N'Western might not be ranked as high as they are, thus making room for UVa... This REALLY IS A GROUP EFFORT. Unless you schedule like Notre Dame and go undefeated every year, you need the other members of the conference to schedule wisely, because everything affects everything else.

As it is, FSU has at least 3 ranked opponents remaining (Clemson, Miami, Florida), Ga Tech has 3 (Clemson, BYU, Georgia), and Clemson has 3 (already played Georgia, still have FSU, Ga Tech, S Carolina). Even Va Tech has 2 (Ga Tech, Miami). Then whoever wins the 2 division will play each other... that is plenty of SoS, IMO.

Doesn't this work the other way as well though. Syracuse is not going to schedule a bunch of weak teams. Usually, its one of the toughest schedules but if we win a lot of these games then that would bring up the strength of schedule if they can beat Syracuse.
Syracuse can be tough at home and have a history of beating highly ranked opponents at home.

Which is exactly the problem and one of the reasons the ACC has looked bad a lot over the years.

See, if Syracuse beats Clemson, Clemson is going to drop to about #23, and Syracuse is still going to be nowhere near ranked.

If Syracuse had come in to the Clemson game 4-0, and beaten Clemson, Clemson would fall to about #16, and Syracuse would be ranked as well.

That's what happens in the other conferences, some of the shine rubs off each other. If Syracuse wins, there will be zero talk about Syracuse, and all about Clemson. If Syracuse was 4-0, Syracuse would be a big part of the story.

I get that "it's what Syracuse does", but if they continue to take 2 losses OOC every single year, which is what they have done for years in the Big East, they turn out to be a terrible addition for ACC football. Syracuse winning 5 and 6 games, but knocking off a Louisville, Clemson or Florida State may be the Syracuse way, but it's nothing but suck for the conference.

And when people say "when Syracuse is good again", good luck with that. Syracuse needs a massive talent upgrade, and that's going to be impossible to come by when they are one of 3-4 ACC teams missing bowl games.

I get the appeal of the Syracuse philosophy...as a Florida State fan, most of us still want our four OOC games to be Florida, Nebraska, USC and Notre Dame every year.

But what works is absolutely proven. For a bad program to continue to schedule 2 out of conference losses, which is what Syracuse did in the Big East the last 5-6 years, there is absolutely zero schools that you can point to for which that allowed them to get better and get to the next level. I can point to a dozen that got to the next level by doing the opposite.

It's like Syracuse refused to adopt the forward pass, because that's not how men play football.

This philosophy was appropriate when we were in Big East Football version 2.0. The conference was the weakest of the AQ's and we had only 7 conference games. Scheduling multiple AQ schools OOC raised our SOS to B1G/SEC equivalent.

Now that we are in the ACC, I would favor moving to a schedule with one P5 opponent OOC, one strong mid major (i.e., AAC), one lesser mid-major (i.e., MAC, CUSA), and one FCS school.

(09-11-2013 08:41 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-11-2013 08:34 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  It's like Syracuse refused to adopt the forward pass, because that's not how men play football.

Lou, have you SEEN a Syracuse game this year? One look at that QB and you'll realize they HAVE abandoned the forward pass...

Nice.

But don't worry, they'll definitely be able to recruit much better players, considering they are in a terrible area for talent.

All they have to do is point to how good Syracuse was before they were born, and tell them that over four years they will probably get a chance to beat one team that they weren't expected to beat. And they will get to see a lot of great teams running past them on the field. They might get to go to one December bowl game if the plan comes together.

Barring hiring some very damaged goods coach that would otherwise be way above Syracuse's level, like a Bobby Petrino or Mike Leach type, I just don't get how they ever turn it around. They've been using this philosophy for years, and the grand high point was a bowl game in NY against another 5-loss team.

My first hope is that they schedule realistically and build their program like so many other programs in a funk have done to turn their program into something respectable.

But if they aren't willing to do that, I hope they become the new Duke, and lose every game in the ACC and are totally uncompetitive. We don't need 2-2 and 3-3 teams that are good enough to upset FSU, Clemson, Duke, etc. Been there, done that and it does NOTHING for the ACC. Nothing. Better for those schools to have a guaranteed win and be able to rest their starters for a half.

We've seen that nothing and nobody in the world of college football registers any credit to the quality of the lower half of the conference. It's a complete non-factor. The Big 12 had 9 out of 10 teams go to bowls last year, and their 1-loss conference champion was not even in what would have been the discussion for a top-4 playoff. The ACC has always been very solid through the middle, and get zero credit for it.

We need 2-3 elite teams (playoff contenders) and 3-4 very good teams (ranked) and everyone else to stay out of the way if they don't intend to be one of those teams.

(09-11-2013 08:50 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(09-11-2013 08:34 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(09-10-2013 11:33 PM)tj_2009 Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:48 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 08:35 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if Virginia had played The Citadel this week instead of Oregon, after what BYU did to Texas, good chance UVA would have been ranked this week as well. We scheduled ourselves out of that one. BYU was a tough enough game and a good win. No need to try to take on Oregon on a week's prep.

Yep. I'll add to that this - if Syracuse had not played N'Western (and lost big), then N'Western might not be ranked as high as they are, thus making room for UVa... This REALLY IS A GROUP EFFORT. Unless you schedule like Notre Dame and go undefeated every year, you need the other members of the conference to schedule wisely, because everything affects everything else.

As it is, FSU has at least 3 ranked opponents remaining (Clemson, Miami, Florida), Ga Tech has 3 (Clemson, BYU, Georgia), and Clemson has 3 (already played Georgia, still have FSU, Ga Tech, S Carolina). Even Va Tech has 2 (Ga Tech, Miami). Then whoever wins the 2 division will play each other... that is plenty of SoS, IMO.

Doesn't this work the other way as well though. Syracuse is not going to schedule a bunch of weak teams. Usually, its one of the toughest schedules but if we win a lot of these games then that would bring up the strength of schedule if they can beat Syracuse.
Syracuse can be tough at home and have a history of beating highly ranked opponents at home.

Which is exactly the problem and one of the reasons the ACC has looked bad a lot over the years.

See, if Syracuse beats Clemson, Clemson is going to drop to about #23, and Syracuse is still going to be nowhere near ranked.

If Syracuse had come in to the Clemson game 4-0, and beaten Clemson, Clemson would fall to about #16, and Syracuse would be ranked as well.

That's what happens in the other conferences, some of the shine rubs off each other. If Syracuse wins, there will be zero talk about Syracuse, and all about Clemson. If Syracuse was 4-0, Syracuse would be a big part of the story.

I get that "it's what Syracuse does", but if they continue to take 2 losses OOC every single year, which is what they have done for years in the Big East, they turn out to be a terrible addition for ACC football. Syracuse winning 5 and 6 games, but knocking off a Louisville, Clemson or Florida State may be the Syracuse way, but it's nothing but suck for the conference.

And when people say "when Syracuse is good again", good luck with that. Syracuse needs a massive talent upgrade, and that's going to be impossible to come by when they are one of 3-4 ACC teams missing bowl games.

I get the appeal of the Syracuse philosophy...as a Florida State fan, most of us still want our four OOC games to be Florida, Nebraska, USC and Notre Dame every year.

But what works is absolutely proven. For a bad program to continue to schedule 2 out of conference losses, which is what Syracuse did in the Big East the last 5-6 years, there is absolutely zero schools that you can point to for which that allowed them to get better and get to the next level. I can point to a dozen that got to the next level by doing the opposite.

It's like Syracuse refused to adopt the forward pass, because that's not how men play football.

This philosophy was appropriate when we were in Big East Football version 2.0. The conference was the weakest of the AQ's and we had only 7 conference games. Scheduling multiple AQ schools OOC raised our SOS to B1G/SEC equivalent.

Now that we are in the ACC, I would favor moving to a schedule with one P5 opponent OOC, one strong mid major (i.e., AAC), one lesser mid-major (i.e., MAC, CUSA), and one FCS school.

Yes, you get it. That philosophy makes sense. But nobody Syracuse schedules should be a heavy (10+ plus) favorite. For example, it makes no sense to schedule:

LSU
Boise State
Northern Illinois
App St.

But it makes perfect sense to schedule:

Minnesota (or Miss St or Iowa St or the equivalent)
Memphis
Buffalo
The Citadel

That schedule makes all the sense in the world for Syracuse, and is nothing shameful about that. It's comparable to the majority of the big time college programs. When you've already got FSU, Clemson, Louisville on the schedule every year, and ND every three years, that is perfect.

Get through that 4-0, and you're game with Clemson is probably a prime time game instead of 12:30 on Raycom or whatever. The Dome would be packed, and you fill it up with recruits. If you somehow beat Clemson, now you're ranked. Even if Clemson runs you, you sell the opportunity to play in big games like this, and as a freshman. You can sell how much you need them.

Then you get to 7-8 wins and a bowl game, which means an extra 3-4 weeks of practice with your coaches and kids. You get a shot at an SEC or B1G team, instead of MAYBE getting to 6 wins for a shot at an AAC team in Birmingham on Dec. 21.

You do that, and it's something you can sell. As your kids get better, and you do better in the ACC, then you upgrade the OOC schedule accordingly. As you get better, you can schedule better teams without them being a virtual auto-loss.

It's all right there to be had, and the blueprint has been followed over and over again by other programs. Believe me, when Syracuse is winning 8-9 games a year, 10 games in a special year, there aren't going to be any attendence problems because the schedule is too weak. Attendence always, ALWAYS goes up with success. People come to see the home team.

I mean, I know Syracuse laughs at Rutgers schedule, but EVERYONE in college football, and I mean EVERYONE, outside of Syracuse fans believe that Rutgers has far surpassed Syracuse as a program. This is what works, for teams and the conference.