(09-03-2013 08:24 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Look folks Coach TT had Munchie in for whatever reason. He knows more about coaching this team, coaching in Div 1, and probably more about football in general than anybody here. Why bit(h and moan about Munchie starting if COACH TT wants him to start. It's a moot point.

What's the point of a message board if there's no room for differing opinions?

I would like to see us beat Miami by a 70+ - 0 margin if possible...with Coney taking a good number of reps!

Go Bearcats! Beat the Illini!

(09-04-2013 10:40 AM)eroc Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 10:33 AM)indycat Wrote:  Yes, let's hope Kay is healthy and we have both QB options Saturday. Getting past IL, you have to feel confident about BIG wins over Northwestern State and MU. While I'm not a proponent of running up scores, I think desperate times require desperate actions and I hope Tuberville will follow that time honored SEC tradition @ UC.

The football program needs national attention; for polling this year and for making a statement in conference realignment. Hanging 70+ on these non-conference foes is perfectly acceptable in my mind.

i'm not a big proponent of running up the score either. i think it's as much about keeping the opponents total low as it is about scoring a bunch of points. if UC beat purdue 42 17, it's still by a pretty wide margin, but doesn't exude dominance like 42 - 7. i think if we can keep the Illini to single digits while putting up 35+, it sends a pretty strong message. As far as Miami goes, i hope we light up the scoreboard like a pinball machine.

I really don't know on a week-to-week basis how the margin of victory affects public perception/rankings but I remember in 2009 when UC beat Louisville 41-10 and dropped like 3 spots in the BCS Standings.

(09-04-2013 08:12 AM)Racinejake Wrote:  Kay was better than Munchie in every facet of the game last year. Even running the ball Kay averaged 6.4 ypc vs. Munchie's 6.1. And the passing game was world's apart in terms of completion % and TD to INT ratio. I shudder to think how our season would've ended had Butch not brought in Kay the second half of Syracuse through the end of the season.

But I agree with your premise. I'm not totally convinced that the reason Kay didn't start was due to injury. You don't put an injured guy out there to pick up 4th and short only to then throw a bomb later in the game. Maybe it's the same "Munchie played a lot better in practice" mantra that we saw with Butch.

I think it all came down to gameplan for the reason Kay did not start. Last year Wisconsin and Michigan blew out Purdue and both teams rushed for 300+ yards...Notre Dame and Ohio State both rushed for under their season average against Purdue and almost lost the games. I checked the stats prior the game and ND's QB threw for 300+ yards and around 70% completion percentage and it still took a last second FG to win the game. If the game versus Purdue was closer and TT needed his QB to run 10-15 times potentially, who do you go with?

TT can only go by what he sees in practice, film from last year, and then put players in the best position to win based on his educated "gut" feelings....seeing Munchie pass 30 times and run 5 times was obviously not a successful approach last year so I HOPE we never see that mix again.

Both Munchie and Kay had 400+ yards of total offense 1 time last year and both were against ACC teams in Duke and Virginia Tech. From a new coach coming in and presumably watching both games, which school is more known for football, Va Tech or Duke (Va Tech beat Duke by 3 TDs last year well)?

Again, going back to a post from last year looking at junior QBs during their first 4 starts and adding Kay's numbers in the mix...beating a dead horse again HUMP DAY

(10-08-2012 08:48 AM)SeniorBearcat Wrote:  

(10-08-2012 08:12 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Here's the reason for the big concern by UC fans...
http://espn.go.com/college-football/stat...pletionPct

Munchie is 105 out of 122 QB's in completion %. Anyone who has watched him play knows that his mechanics and inability to consistently hit wide open receivers is going to eventually cost UC a game. In a sport where even one loss can kill a season, its hard to feel like he's the man to carry this team to victory each week.

Munchie Leagaux = Tim Tebow in the NFL. No team wants to start him despite his penchant for winning games because they know his faults will eventually be exposed.

With that said, I am in full support of Butch Jones and will root just as hard to Munchie as anyone else. Go CATS!!

Munchie is 21st out of 122 QBs in rushing yards per game fwiw with 48 yards a game. His QB rating ranks him 47th out of 122 QBs overall. If he can manage games and play SMART football, UC is a 10 win+ team...hard to get upset with results like that on a young team.

In the last decade, UC has had 5 junior QBs start 4 games+ (Grutza only started 2 as a junior for an injured Mauk). Let's look at their 1st 4 games as a starter.

2012 (3-1) - Brendon Kay - 918 yards, 61% CMP%, 5 TD, 2 INT
2012 (4-0) - Munchie Legaux - 946 yards, 55% CMP%, 9 TD, 3 INT
2010 (1-3) - Zach Collaros - 964 yards, 61% CMP%, 9 TD, 1 INT
2008 (3-1) - Tony Pike - 978 yards, 65% CMP%, 8 TD, 2 INT
2003 (3-1) - Gino Guidugli - 814 yards, 54% CMP%, 5 TD, 1 INT

Plus Munchie outrushed the other 3 QBs combined with his 191 yards rushing and 1 TD...the other 3 QBs had a total of 145 rushing yards (25 Collaros, 9 Pike, 111 Guidugli)

Kay rushed for 163 yards and 1 TD

(09-03-2013 02:52 PM)eroc Wrote:  SRBCat;

Point given. Teams win and lose, from the Coaching staff down to the punter. Lyle may have had the recruiting element down, he didn't have the coaching abilities many of us had hoped. i certainly agree with your assessment that the team was hindered and not helped by Lyle and Co's game planning and decision making. Undoubtedly, those short comings led to some of Munchie's short comings on the field.

That said, certain players are able to impact a game disproportionately because of their position. The impact of a WR is contingent upon the offenses ability to get them the ball. The impact of the QB is exponentially more significant because they start with ball in their hands every snap. When a QB makes a bad mistake, the consequences are also exponentially larger.

i'll cede that too much of the past losses are being attributed to Munchie's poor performance and not enough to Lyle and Co. But it's hard for me to abandon the notion that in those moments that comprise the game, Munchie's actions did not disproportionately influence the eventual negative outcome, and certainly more so than anyone besides the coaching staff.

I'm right with you and agree QB mistakes are magnified significantly because they start with the ball. When a ball carrier fumbles a ball after a big hit in the backfield, he is blamed as the ball carrier, even though the cause of the Big Hit is usually an offensive lineman missing a blocking assignment. TT pointed out the missed chop blocks on Munchie's first INT as well showing the blame is not on 1 sole person under the microscope.

I only get mad on here when I see people taking cheap shots at somebody who represents Cincinnati...got mad back in the day when people were attacking Adam Hrycaniuk and Deonta Vaughn who helped UC during an awful BB transition. Being critical is one thing, attacking a student athlete at Cincinnati ad nauseam gets old quickly in my book.

All that being said, my wife thought I looked sick on Saturday when I heard Munchie was going to start over Kay. I personally think Kay is the better QB overall like many on here and significantly better as a passer...but I'm not the coach. I was pleasantly surprised by Munchie against Purdue and thought he looked better than he did at anytime last year...if he starts from here on out I'll be rooting for Munchie 100%. How many games does Cincinnati have to win for people on here to back Munchie as the starting QB at Cincinnati?

I actually thought Munchie looked okay on Saturday. The fact that he is a running threat was huge in terms of their ability to gameplan for Purdue. I thought they had a brilliant offensive gameplan to be honest. He just needs to cut down on those 1-2 really horrible decisions per game of eventually it will cost them. That said I just love the defense this year. I had a feeling they were going to be good but they are even more athletic than I expected. All those guys can really run on that side of the ball. From a talent standpoint this is by far the most talented roster I've ever seen UC have.

(09-03-2013 08:36 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  You're not going to go all "in coach I trust" and then have a change of heart again, are you?

LOL I was waiting for someone to bring that up hahaha thanks Rath! I'm taking the fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me approach on this one!

I'm good like that.

Don't worry. I've taken my self inflicted lumps before, too.