(08-20-2013 01:23 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 01:06 PM)Smaug Wrote:  NCLB sucks.
The Patriot Act sucks.
ACA sucks. We just don't know how badly yet.

By the way, all of them passed with bi-partisan support but one.

Crickets

Positive Rep me and I'll vote for Obama in 2016

(08-20-2013 01:18 PM)psualltheway5 Wrote:  For the millionth time, Obama supported the Egyptian military, a separate entity from the Muslim Brotherhood at the time.

"You Lie!"

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/56364

Quote:A lie is a lie in any language. A lie is a lie in any country.

And on today’s political front there is no bigger liar than President Barack Hussein Obama.



Obama, who reiterated only yesterday that the U.S. is not aligned with and is not supporting any particular political party or group while condemning the ongoing violence across Egypt, is lying and his condemnation of the violence merely the far away mewlings of a paper tiger.

Obama gave Muslim Brotherhood Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi $250-million only last March 5th. Obama also gave Morsi 200 Abrams tanks and 12 F-16s delivered in 2013 with the promise of another eight by the end of this year.

That’s hardcore support of the Muslim Brotherhood of which Morsi is a member in good standing.

Obama made his “not supporting any particular Egyptian political party or group” remarks in a telephone conference with the National Security Council, according to a statement issued by the White House (Associated Press, July 7, 2013) from Camp David, the Maryland presidential retreat where he is spending the weekend

(08-20-2013 11:56 AM)psualltheway5 Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 11:46 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 10:30 AM)psualltheway5 Wrote:  I'd say it has to be Bush's no child left behind. Schools that desperately needed the funding were not getting it and the schools in great shape continued getting funding when it really wasn't necessary, essentially causing the failure of many public schools.

Funding is not the reason any of today's schools fail - but just let me get this straight - you think the reason for failure is that the Fed. gave money to schools that were educating kids?

I guess your answer is to "Take from schools doing ok" forcing people living in those school districts to "shoulder" a bigger local cost burden and "Give even more to failing schools" because they've shown that the current expenditures weren't just pouring money down the drain.

How novel - take even more from the providers and give it to the takers. Where have I heard that?

Let's look at it from the right standpoint, give the schools that are doing great more funding and just totally ignore the schools that may need help, forcing them to close or be poverty stricken. I forgot the right doesn't care about anyone who isn't in the 1%. Every teacher you talk to will totally bash No Child Left Behind, I haven't heard one who agreed with it.

I'm not saying NCLB was successful - but I can tell you that in the state that I live in, EVERY large urban school system spends almost double on education PER PUPIL than do the suburban/rural school districts. With spending twice as much - they are much, much worse by any academic measurement you choose. That tells me that it is not a money issue for the majority of failing schools.

I've said this a million times, but again - schools are way more often than not, a reflection of the community they serve. Communities that value education and demand academic performance usually get it - in large part because the parents in that district demand that their children do what they should in school. Virtually every large urban school district is a failure because the students that walk through the doors come from too many families where the parents don't care and expect the schools to raise their children. They have abdicated their parental responsibilities.

where the hell did this urban schools spend more per pupil than suburban schools notion come from


thats not even close to being true

(08-20-2013 07:32 PM)john01992 Wrote:  where the hell did this urban schools spend more per pupil than suburban schools notion come from


thats not even close to being true

In my state - it's a fact. Period. In fact - only a few rich enclaves around the state spend more per pupil than the large urban districts.

How the hell would you know about school funding in states you don't live in.............you don't.

O's foreign policy.

Benghazi, Egypt, Israeli borders, the list goes on and on.

(08-20-2013 07:45 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 07:32 PM)john01992 Wrote:  where the hell did this urban schools spend more per pupil than suburban schools notion come from


thats not even close to being true

In my state - it's a fact. Period. In fact - only a few rich enclaves around the state spend more per pupil than the large urban districts.

How the hell would you know about school funding in states you don't live in.............you don't.

link?

(08-20-2013 08:21 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 07:45 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 07:32 PM)john01992 Wrote:  where the hell did this urban schools spend more per pupil than suburban schools notion come from


thats not even close to being true

In my state - it's a fact. Period. In fact - only a few rich enclaves around the state spend more per pupil than the large urban districts.

How the hell would you know about school funding in states you don't live in.............you don't.

link?

http://www.lsc.state.oh.us/fiscal/ohiofa...chools.pdf

Look at page 40 - it breaks it down by urban, rural, suburban, etc.

Major Urban - $13,116
Suburban (Low Poverty) - $11,085
Rural (Low Poverty) - $8,860

Guess which grouping scores the lowest academically.

(08-20-2013 09:13 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 08:21 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 07:45 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 07:32 PM)john01992 Wrote:  where the hell did this urban schools spend more per pupil than suburban schools notion come from


thats not even close to being true

In my state - it's a fact. Period. In fact - only a few rich enclaves around the state spend more per pupil than the large urban districts.

How the hell would you know about school funding in states you don't live in.............you don't.

link?

http://www.lsc.state.oh.us/fiscal/ohiofa...chools.pdf

Look at page 40 - it breaks it down by urban, rural, suburban, etc.

Major Urban - $13,116
Suburban (Low Poverty) - $11,085
Rural (Low Poverty) - $8,860

Guess which grouping scores the lowest academically.

thats pretty messed up and looks nothing like the national average. what i find amazing in was that only around 33% of ohio education spending goes directly to the student compared to the national average of 65%. this state needs some serious education reform

(08-20-2013 01:23 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 01:06 PM)Smaug Wrote:  NCLB sucks.
The Patriot Act sucks.
ACA sucks. We just don't know how badly yet.

By the way, all of them passed with bi-partisan support but one.

True.

NCLB is right on up there.

(08-20-2013 09:37 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 09:13 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 08:21 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 07:45 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 07:32 PM)john01992 Wrote:  where the hell did this urban schools spend more per pupil than suburban schools notion come from


thats not even close to being true

In my state - it's a fact. Period. In fact - only a few rich enclaves around the state spend more per pupil than the large urban districts.

How the hell would you know about school funding in states you don't live in.............you don't.

link?

http://www.lsc.state.oh.us/fiscal/ohiofa...chools.pdf

Look at page 40 - it breaks it down by urban, rural, suburban, etc.

Major Urban - $13,116
Suburban (Low Poverty) - $11,085
Rural (Low Poverty) - $8,860

Guess which grouping scores the lowest academically.

thats pretty messed up and looks nothing like the national average. what i find amazing in was that only around 33% of ohio education spending goes directly to the student compared to the national average of 65%. this state needs some serious education reform

I don't disagree. Interesting if you look further that the places where the disparity is the worst is in the large urban districts. They spend lots of money on things that are not "direct instructional spending".

As with most things, the larger an entity becomes - the more bureaucracy you have that gets entrenched that spends money.

Now do you see why I state that schools that succeed or fail is not really an issue of money. Honestly, their are alot of factors that play into a schools success or failure, money is a factor, but IMO not the most important factor by far.

I guarantee you that there are many private schools that spend less than the publics - yet their students succeed at levels beyond most publics. Why? When the parents are footing the bill and directly writing checks - they care about the outcome alot more.

In all honesty, if you had a group of motivated students AND parents, a teacher could conduct class in a barn and be successful.

Unfortunately, in almost every large city in the country, there are way too many people living there that have multiple kids when they can't even take care of themselves properly. That's why lots of those kids go to school without being fed, let alone with school supplies - and then their parents take no interest - kids never do homework, etc, etc, etc.

The school's failure is just a reflection of the community it serves...........

(08-20-2013 09:37 PM)john01992 Wrote:  thats pretty messed up and looks nothing like the national average. what i find amazing in was that only around 33% of ohio education spending goes directly to the student compared to the national average of 65%. this state needs some serious education reform

Where are the national numbers? From everything I've ever read Ohio was right in line.

(08-21-2013 08:07 AM)Crebman Wrote:  I guarantee you that there are many private schools that spend less than the publics - yet their students succeed at levels beyond most publics. Why? When the parents are footing the bill and directly writing checks - they care about the outcome alot more.

In all honesty, if you had a group of motivated students AND parents, a teacher could conduct class in a barn and be successful.

Unfortunately, in almost every large city in the country, there are way too many people living there that have multiple kids when they can't even take care of themselves properly. That's why lots of those kids go to school without being fed, let alone with school supplies - and then their parents take no interest - kids never do homework, etc, etc, etc.

The school's failure is just a reflection of the community it serves...........

Completely agree with this. I get so tired of hearing how the teachers are failing when in general it is the parents that are failing. Teachers can only do so much when what they are teaching are not being reinforced at home. When parents don't care about their kids education, neither do the kids.

That being said, suburban districts still provide a great education... and most of them I'd argue are better than the private school education thanks to their resources.

Exactly right. Schools aren't the problem. They're a symptom of the problem. There's are reason people without children or the intention of ever having them ask about schools when looking at real estate.

Parents who don't value education create kids who don't value education, and you're asking a helluva lot of someone you're paying $30K a year to reverse the trend not just in that kid, but in a room full of them.

(08-21-2013 09:38 AM)Smaug Wrote:  Exactly right. Schools aren't the problem. They're a symptom of the problem. There's are reason people without children or the intention of ever having them ask about schools when looking at real estate.

Parents who don't value education create kids who don't value education, and you're asking a helluva lot of someone you're paying $30K a year to reverse the trend not just in that kid, but in a room full of them.

All of this.

(08-21-2013 09:57 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(08-21-2013 09:38 AM)Smaug Wrote:  Exactly right. Schools aren't the problem. They're a symptom of the problem. There's are reason people without children or the intention of ever having them ask about schools when looking at real estate.

Parents who don't value education create kids who don't value education, and you're asking a helluva lot of someone you're paying $30K a year to reverse the trend not just in that kid, but in a room full of them.

All of this.

See. Not all conservatives are against teachers.

(08-21-2013 10:45 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(08-21-2013 09:57 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(08-21-2013 09:38 AM)Smaug Wrote:  Exactly right. Schools aren't the problem. They're a symptom of the problem. There's are reason people without children or the intention of ever having them ask about schools when looking at real estate.

Parents who don't value education create kids who don't value education, and you're asking a helluva lot of someone you're paying $30K a year to reverse the trend not just in that kid, but in a room full of them.

All of this.

See. Not all conservatives are against teachers.

Democrats legislated welfare recipients make more than teachers. How in the world do Conservatives get the wrap for being against education?

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/08/73903-ne...-teachers/