I find it interesting that the Top 10 all return a starting QB and FSU at 11 is the highest ranked team who will line up with a new kid. And a couple of these teams are also-rans without their QB.

If you consider returning/highly effective QBs, maybe you leave Florida, at #10, out too.

im just glad TCU is at #20

im so sick of TCU fans last year who blamed their struggles on having a young team and that they are gonna be such a good team this year

well last year they were preseason ranked 17th & 20th so obviously it wasnt a rebuilding year now you have almost the same ranking so its time to sit down and shut up if TCU under performs again

(08-17-2013 10:16 AM)john01992 Wrote:  im just glad TCU is at #20

im so sick of TCU fans last year who blamed their struggles on having a young team and that they are gonna be such a good team this year

well last year they were preseason ranked 17th & 20th so obviously it wasnt a rebuilding year now you have almost the same ranking so its time to sit down and shut up if TCU under performs again

I realize you have a negative bias against TCU and its fans, which is fine, but a couple of points:

1. We did indeed have one of the youngest teams last year playing the most true (16) and total freshmen (28) in the country. Having a young team isn't an excuse or mean that the future is necessarily going to be better, but it does produce more experienced players down the line, which can be a positive in future years.

2. While your bias is that TCU is overrated, TCU has actually traditionally been one of the most underrated teams according to Stassen's site:
http://preseason.stassen.com/over-under/teams.html
Last year was only the second time in ten years we've been overrated (defined by end season rank versus preseason rank).

I have to say once all the injuries and suspensions went down last year, I expected 4-5 wins or so at most. A seven win season in a tougher league was a very pleasant surprise given all we went through, and that was a sentiment most Frog fans felt. Obviously every school has its share of unreasonable cyber chest thumping sorts, but I think all in all TCU fans were/are pretty realistic.

As far as this year, I do think we are little overrated at 20, although it isn't too far off. Defense will be very good again, offense is solid at skill positions, but the line is a huge, huge question mark. Unless the line totally surprises me, I think we'll end up in that 6-8 win range. If the line is better than I expect, 9-10 wins and challenging for the Big 12 title is possible. Regardless, should be a fun year.

(08-17-2013 11:46 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(08-17-2013 10:16 AM)john01992 Wrote:  im just glad TCU is at #20

im so sick of TCU fans last year who blamed their struggles on having a young team and that they are gonna be such a good team this year

well last year they were preseason ranked 17th & 20th so obviously it wasnt a rebuilding year now you have almost the same ranking so its time to sit down and shut up if TCU under performs again

I realize you have a negative bias against TCU and its fans, which is fine, but a couple of points:

1. We did indeed have one of the youngest teams last year playing the most true (16) and total freshmen (28) in the country. Having a young team isn't an excuse or mean that the future is necessarily going to be better, but it does produce more experienced players down the line, which can be a positive in future years.

2. While your bias is that TCU is overrated, TCU has actually traditionally been one of the most underrated teams according to Stassen's site:
http://preseason.stassen.com/over-under/teams.html
Last year was only the second time in ten years we've been overrated (defined by end season rank versus preseason rank).

I have to say once all the injuries and suspensions went down last year, I expected 4-5 wins or so at most. A seven win season in a tougher league was a very pleasant surprise given all we went through, and that was a sentiment most Frog fans felt. Obviously every school has its share of unreasonable cyber chest thumping sorts, but I think all in all TCU fans were/are pretty realistic.

As far as this year, I do think we are little overrated at 20, although it isn't too far off. Defense will be very good again, offense is solid at skill positions, but the line is a huge, huge question mark. Unless the line totally surprises me, I think we'll end up in that 6-8 win range. If the line is better than I expect, 9-10 wins and challenging for the Big 12 title is possible. Regardless, should be a fun year.

i dont have a bias towards TCU fans or the school. i am just sick of the youth excuse. last year TCU was over rated and didnt perform as well as they were expected and it could be said that TCU just wasnt ready for p5 play yet

TCU fans cant seem to admit that for some reason. props to you for doing so but i wish others would do the same

(08-17-2013 12:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-17-2013 11:46 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(08-17-2013 10:16 AM)john01992 Wrote:  im just glad TCU is at #20

im so sick of TCU fans last year who blamed their struggles on having a young team and that they are gonna be such a good team this year

well last year they were preseason ranked 17th & 20th so obviously it wasnt a rebuilding year now you have almost the same ranking so its time to sit down and shut up if TCU under performs again

I realize you have a negative bias against TCU and its fans, which is fine, but a couple of points:

1. We did indeed have one of the youngest teams last year playing the most true (16) and total freshmen (28) in the country. Having a young team isn't an excuse or mean that the future is necessarily going to be better, but it does produce more experienced players down the line, which can be a positive in future years.

2. While your bias is that TCU is overrated, TCU has actually traditionally been one of the most underrated teams according to Stassen's site:
http://preseason.stassen.com/over-under/teams.html
Last year was only the second time in ten years we've been overrated (defined by end season rank versus preseason rank).

I have to say once all the injuries and suspensions went down last year, I expected 4-5 wins or so at most. A seven win season in a tougher league was a very pleasant surprise given all we went through, and that was a sentiment most Frog fans felt. Obviously every school has its share of unreasonable cyber chest thumping sorts, but I think all in all TCU fans were/are pretty realistic.

As far as this year, I do think we are little overrated at 20, although it isn't too far off. Defense will be very good again, offense is solid at skill positions, but the line is a huge, huge question mark. Unless the line totally surprises me, I think we'll end up in that 6-8 win range. If the line is better than I expect, 9-10 wins and challenging for the Big 12 title is possible. Regardless, should be a fun year.

i dont have a bias towards TCU fans or the school. i am just sick of the youth excuse. last year TCU was over rated and didnt perform as well as they were expected and it could be said that TCU just wasnt ready for p5 play yet

TCU fans cant seem to admit that for some reason. props to you for doing so but i wish others would do the same

Well TCU did lose their QB and kicked 4 other starters off the team for drug use over the summer. That was a huge impact. And as the TCU fan points out, TCU tied with Texas for playing more true freshman last year than any other team in the country. One behind them and a team to watch out for, Ohio St.

(08-17-2013 09:57 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  I find it interesting that the Top 10 all return a starting QB and FSU at 11 is the highest ranked team who will line up with a new kid. And a couple of these teams are also-rans without their QB.

If you consider returning/highly effective QBs, maybe you leave Florida, at #10, out too.

The herd mentality in the polls is pathetic. The writers and coaches (or whomever fills out their ballots) should be ashamed by their lack of independent thinking.

AP has the same top 25 teams as the coaches.

The top tens are the same, in the same order from 1-10, except AP has South Carolina #6 and TAMU #7 and the coaches have those two teams reversed.

The 11-14 teams are the same in both polls but in different orders.

And the 15-25 teams in the two polls are the same teams in exactly the same order.

Herd mentality. Moooooooooo. Moooooooooo. Moooooooooo.

What's even more ridiculous is that this herd mentality determines the teams that get to play for the BCS title.

In order to have credibility, the CFP committee that starts next year will have to prove to us that it makes its decisions free of this herd mentality.

(08-17-2013 12:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-17-2013 11:46 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(08-17-2013 10:16 AM)john01992 Wrote:  im just glad TCU is at #20

im so sick of TCU fans last year who blamed their struggles on having a young team and that they are gonna be such a good team this year

well last year they were preseason ranked 17th & 20th so obviously it wasnt a rebuilding year now you have almost the same ranking so its time to sit down and shut up if TCU under performs again

I realize you have a negative bias against TCU and its fans, which is fine, but a couple of points:

1. We did indeed have one of the youngest teams last year playing the most true (16) and total freshmen (28) in the country. Having a young team isn't an excuse or mean that the future is necessarily going to be better, but it does produce more experienced players down the line, which can be a positive in future years.

2. While your bias is that TCU is overrated, TCU has actually traditionally been one of the most underrated teams according to Stassen's site:
http://preseason.stassen.com/over-under/teams.html
Last year was only the second time in ten years we've been overrated (defined by end season rank versus preseason rank).

I have to say once all the injuries and suspensions went down last year, I expected 4-5 wins or so at most. A seven win season in a tougher league was a very pleasant surprise given all we went through, and that was a sentiment most Frog fans felt. Obviously every school has its share of unreasonable cyber chest thumping sorts, but I think all in all TCU fans were/are pretty realistic.

As far as this year, I do think we are little overrated at 20, although it isn't too far off. Defense will be very good again, offense is solid at skill positions, but the line is a huge, huge question mark. Unless the line totally surprises me, I think we'll end up in that 6-8 win range. If the line is better than I expect, 9-10 wins and challenging for the Big 12 title is possible. Regardless, should be a fun year.

i dont have a bias towards TCU fans or the school. i am just sick of the youth excuse. last year TCU was over rated and didnt perform as well as they were expected and it could be said that TCU just wasnt ready for p5 play yet

TCU fans cant seem to admit that for some reason. props to you for doing so but i wish others would do the same

Every year there are teams that outperform expectations and others that underperform expectations. The teams that underperform expectations will look at the reasons why. Fans that have a bias against or dislike such teams will call those reasons "excuses". Some, like yourself, will voice those opinions on message boards. That's how it works in college football fandom, and it's OK. But if you didn't have a preconceived bias and negative view of TCU or its fans, there is no way you would respond, unprovoked with such a strong opinion in the second post of a benign informational original topic.

(08-17-2013 10:16 AM)john01992 Wrote:  im just glad TCU is at #20

im so sick of TCU fans last year who blamed their struggles on having a young team and that they are gonna be such a good team this year

well last year they were preseason ranked 17th & 20th so obviously it wasnt a rebuilding year now you have almost the same ranking so its time to sit down and shut up if TCU under performs again

I don't know who put that burr under your saddle regarding TCU and the Big 12, but if I were you my concern would be whether or not Colorado is ever going to be relevant again in college football.

(08-17-2013 01:21 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  

(08-17-2013 10:16 AM)john01992 Wrote:  im just glad TCU is at #20

im so sick of TCU fans last year who blamed their struggles on having a young team and that they are gonna be such a good team this year

well last year they were preseason ranked 17th & 20th so obviously it wasnt a rebuilding year now you have almost the same ranking so its time to sit down and shut up if TCU under performs again

I don't know who put that burr under your saddle regarding TCU and the Big 12, but if I were you my concern would be whether or not Colorado is ever going to be relevant again in college football.

colorado has a lot of work to do. i dont see this program being competitive for the next 20 years.

i actually like TCU because they are a private school with cool colors, mascot, and were a bcs buster. the only reason im calling you guys out was because all we heard about before the season started was how good they were gonna be in the b12. a losing b12 record & bowl loss later all of the sudden tcu fans act like this was a rebuilding year. im sorry i dont buy that and i think they were making a lot more excuses than any other fanbase. not trying to troll just calling it like i see it.

(08-17-2013 12:22 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-17-2013 09:57 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  I find it interesting that the Top 10 all return a starting QB and FSU at 11 is the highest ranked team who will line up with a new kid. And a couple of these teams are also-rans without their QB.

If you consider returning/highly effective QBs, maybe you leave Florida, at #10, out too.

The herd mentality in the polls is pathetic. The writers and coaches (or whomever fills out their ballots) should be ashamed by their lack of independent thinking.

AP has the same top 25 teams as the coaches.

The top tens are the same, in the same order from 1-10, except AP has South Carolina #6 and TAMU #7 and the coaches have those two teams reversed.

The 11-14 teams are the same in both polls but in different orders.

And the 15-25 teams in the two polls are the same teams in exactly the same order.

Herd mentality. Moooooooooo. Moooooooooo. Moooooooooo.

What's even more ridiculous is that this herd mentality determines the teams that get to play for the BCS title.

In order to have credibility, the CFP committee that starts next year will have to prove to us that it makes its decisions free of this herd mentality.

I find that unlikely. Same as it ever was, just packaged in a shiny new package with a bright new label.

Watch the CFP committee makeup....I will be surprised if it is not the good ole' boys in a new setting.

at the end of the season, a lot of times, it's going to be really easy to determine 3 of the teams for the playoff...

last year- Notre Dame, Ohio St, and Alabama would have been locks for the playoff. The tough choice would have been between Oregon and Florida- with Stanford as well- for that 4th spot.

(08-17-2013 12:22 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-17-2013 09:57 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  I find it interesting that the Top 10 all return a starting QB and FSU at 11 is the highest ranked team who will line up with a new kid. And a couple of these teams are also-rans without their QB.

If you consider returning/highly effective QBs, maybe you leave Florida, at #10, out too.

The herd mentality in the polls is pathetic. The writers and coaches (or whomever fills out their ballots) should be ashamed by their lack of independent thinking.

AP has the same top 25 teams as the coaches.

The top tens are the same, in the same order from 1-10, except AP has South Carolina #6 and TAMU #7 and the coaches have those two teams reversed.

The 11-14 teams are the same in both polls but in different orders.

And the 15-25 teams in the two polls are the same teams in exactly the same order.

Herd mentality. Moooooooooo. Moooooooooo. Moooooooooo.

What's even more ridiculous is that this herd mentality determines the teams that get to play for the BCS title.

In order to have credibility, the CFP committee that starts next year will have to prove to us that it makes its decisions free of this herd mentality.

At least with the four team playoff now, it won't be as pitiful as before. At least they have to have four favorites now. You are right though. If they give you the top spot, it's yours to lose usually. Still hoping for an eight team playoff someday.

(08-18-2013 11:58 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(08-17-2013 12:22 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-17-2013 09:57 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  I find it interesting that the Top 10 all return a starting QB and FSU at 11 is the highest ranked team who will line up with a new kid. And a couple of these teams are also-rans without their QB.

If you consider returning/highly effective QBs, maybe you leave Florida, at #10, out too.

The herd mentality in the polls is pathetic. The writers and coaches (or whomever fills out their ballots) should be ashamed by their lack of independent thinking.

AP has the same top 25 teams as the coaches.

The top tens are the same, in the same order from 1-10, except AP has South Carolina #6 and TAMU #7 and the coaches have those two teams reversed.

The 11-14 teams are the same in both polls but in different orders.

And the 15-25 teams in the two polls are the same teams in exactly the same order.

Herd mentality. Moooooooooo. Moooooooooo. Moooooooooo.

What's even more ridiculous is that this herd mentality determines the teams that get to play for the BCS title.

In order to have credibility, the CFP committee that starts next year will have to prove to us that it makes its decisions free of this herd mentality.

At least with the four team playoff now, it won't be as pitiful as before. At least they have to have four favorites now. You are right though. If they give you the top spot, it's yours to lose usually. Still hoping for an eight team playoff someday.

Most of the writers that vote know about the teams they cover and little about the rest of the nation. There are rare responsible ones here and there that do try to do their homework. But there's not enough time to get to know much about how good every team is in relation to ALL other schools nationwide. So they tend to go with the popular choice, what ever it may be...

It's the same with the coaches. Coaching is a full time job, and they know their team and their opponents teams. They don't have time to do much in the way of research about other teams. Many coaches don't even do that much, turning it over to someone less qualified to do for them...

(08-18-2013 11:58 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(08-17-2013 12:22 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-17-2013 09:57 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  I find it interesting that the Top 10 all return a starting QB and FSU at 11 is the highest ranked team who will line up with a new kid. And a couple of these teams are also-rans without their QB.

If you consider returning/highly effective QBs, maybe you leave Florida, at #10, out too.

The herd mentality in the polls is pathetic. The writers and coaches (or whomever fills out their ballots) should be ashamed by their lack of independent thinking.

AP has the same top 25 teams as the coaches.

The top tens are the same, in the same order from 1-10, except AP has South Carolina #6 and TAMU #7 and the coaches have those two teams reversed.

The 11-14 teams are the same in both polls but in different orders.

And the 15-25 teams in the two polls are the same teams in exactly the same order.

Herd mentality. Moooooooooo. Moooooooooo. Moooooooooo.

What's even more ridiculous is that this herd mentality determines the teams that get to play for the BCS title.

In order to have credibility, the CFP committee that starts next year will have to prove to us that it makes its decisions free of this herd mentality.

At least with the four team playoff now, it won't be as pitiful as before. At least they have to have four favorites now. You are right though. If they give you the top spot, it's yours to lose usually. Still hoping for an eight team playoff someday.

Yes, 8 would make more sense. Chances are you get all the best teams in there then. You can argue about who would be #9 still, but it's better than #5. I'd of course like to go a little bigger, like 12 or something but 8 is a definite improvement.

http://thecrunchzone.com/over-rated-13-y...evaluated/

great find Terry...

just looking- 11 programs really overrated since 2000....
Florida St, Tennessee, USC, Oklahoma, Michigan, Nebraska, Florida, Texas, California, Va Tech, and Miami.
9 programs really underrated since 2000.....
Boise St, Stanford, Utah, TCU, Cincy, BC, Washington St, Oregon, Iowa

I think Alabama probably the most interesting team in all of this. And, Notre Dame is interesting to me, I think a lot of folks would have thought they were really overrated a lot of times.

Remember what I said earlier about a lot of folks thinking......

(08-18-2013 11:11 AM)stever20 Wrote:  at the end of the season, a lot of times, it's going to be really easy to determine 3 of the teams for the playoff...

last year- Notre Dame, Ohio St, and Alabama would have been locks for the playoff. The tough choice would have been between Oregon and Florida- with Stanford as well- for that 4th spot.

ND / tOSU would have been a tough game to pick a winner of... Alabama would have handled either team easily...

The voting is nothing more a glorified popularity contest. The same old guys vote the same old way based a team's past and the media continually props them up because it's the easy thing to do. It like voting for class president in the 8th grade - unfotunately, this taints the whole process as the vote is a key to who plays in the championship game.

Not shocked at all that Notre Dame and Alabama would be under-rated. I suspect there are voters who tend to drop them a few slots because they don't like them (Notre Dame) or still refuse to buy into the consistency Saban has brought to Bama.

Also not shocking that G5 or recently moved from G5 schools take up such a portion of the under-rated category.

NIU while not a top 10 program last year lost 16 lettermen and and returns 55. They look to be better on offense while there are questions about the front side of the defense. They have a fairly friendly schedule. Odds are pretty good they will be ranked at the end of this season but they didn't get close in votes to crack the pre-season top 25.