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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
(08-14-2013 07:01 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Here is the 10th End game:

-The P5 get together and agree to reduce down to 4 conferences but with 18 members each consisting of 3x6 divisions for a total of 72 members.

-They agree the B12 being in the middle of the country shall be totally redistributed to the coasts and the ACC will continue to exist and not be raided to death but will give up several key units in exchange.


PAC
UT/OU/OSU/TT/KSU/ISU
UU/CU/ASU/UA/USC/UCLA
Cal/Stan/UO/OSU/UW/WSU

B1G
NU/KU/UIA/UWI/UMN/NW
UMD/UVA/UNC/Duke/RU/PSU
UIL/PU/IU/MSU/UM/tOSU

ACC
USF/Mia/GT/CU/WF/ECU
Cin/UL/UConn/Pitt/SU/BC
BU/TCU/SMU/UH/Rice/Tulane

SEC
A&M/LSU/Ark/MU/UMS/MSU
UF/FSU/UGA/USC/UK/NCSU
UA/AU/UT/VU/VT/WVU

Each conference has a 2 game tournament where the #2 & #3 champs play in to face #1 who gets a first round bye.

the 4 winners engage in a 2 round playoff and we have a national title winner after only playing 3-4 games.

The PAC and especially the ACC get hosed with the teams they have to pick up in your scenario. Trading NSCU and VT for Baylor and UH will have most Triangle Area fans choking on their Pinot Gris. They'll easily need a $100 million kicker just to make the new conference composition stay down.
08-16-2013 01:44 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
(08-16-2013 01:44 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(08-14-2013 07:01 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Here is the 10th End game:

-The P5 get together and agree to reduce down to 4 conferences but with 18 members each consisting of 3x6 divisions for a total of 72 members.

-They agree the B12 being in the middle of the country shall be totally redistributed to the coasts and the ACC will continue to exist and not be raided to death but will give up several key units in exchange.


PAC
UT/OU/OSU/TT/KSU/ISU
UU/CU/ASU/UA/USC/UCLA
Cal/Stan/UO/OSU/UW/WSU

B1G
NU/KU/UIA/UWI/UMN/NW
UMD/UVA/UNC/Duke/RU/PSU
UIL/PU/IU/MSU/UM/tOSU

ACC
USF/Mia/GT/CU/WF/ECU
Cin/UL/UConn/Pitt/SU/BC
BU/TCU/SMU/UH/Rice/Tulane

SEC
A&M/LSU/Ark/MU/UMS/MSU
UF/FSU/UGA/USC/UK/NCSU
UA/AU/UT/VU/VT/WVU

Each conference has a 2 game tournament where the #2 & #3 champs play in to face #1 who gets a first round bye.

the 4 winners engage in a 2 round playoff and we have a national title winner after only playing 3-4 games.

The PAC and especially the ACC get hosed with the teams they have to pick up in your scenario. Trading NSCU and VT for Baylor and UH will have most Triangle Area fans choking on their Pinot Gris. They'll easily need a $100 million kicker just to make the new conference composition stay down.

I think the ACC in that case becomes the catch all gatekeeper conference and the PAC gets six of the Big 12 not that bad in reality.
But, in that scenario I would have gone ahead and eliminated the ACC and moved all three conferences to 20.

Clemson & Georgia Tech to the SEC, Boston College and Syracuse to the Big 10, BYU capitulates on Sunday play and adapts to get into the PAC along with either New Mexico or U.N.L.V. (or T.C.U.).
08-16-2013 04:34 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
(08-13-2013 01:30 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 11:11 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I agree that Big 12 absorption is the most likely scenario, but we have all tried to guess what Texas would do before and been burned.

The more scenarios I see, the more I believe that the B1G and SEC will stick to their guns and invite only those that meet their existing criteria. Is any gang of conferences going to seriously consider making rules that would disqualify the SEC or B1G, such as a minimum number of school members or how they decide their conference champs? I don't think so... nobody is making the SEC or B1G do anything now or in the foreseeable future. So, The B1G will bring in state flagships that are contiguous and are AAU members. Similarly, the SEC will bring in state flagships that are contiguous. Nothing in their histories or recent statements suggest otherwise. I believe when it comes to those two conferences, the adage "the more things change, the more they stay the same" will hold true.

I like your thinking here. Oklahoma and West Virginia are not AAU but are flagships so there are your two to 16 for the SEC. Kansas is AAU and would love to be part of the Big 10 so there is one for them. Buffalo has been rumored as well and is also AAU. Then there is the Canadian option that is intriguing as well. Either way number two for the Big 10 wouldn't come from the Big 12 unless it was either Texas who for a variety of reasons won't go Big 10, or Iowa State a redundant addition that the Big 10 is not likely to take. If Texas goes west they could easily move with Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech. That satisfies the PAC completely but it doesn't get you to the required number of 8. Plus Dodds says he looks to the East. So let's say Texas does go to the ACC as a hybrid and the price of admission is Baylor and TCU and Iowa State takes their place in the group headed West. Now all 10 get placed. There are those who say the PAC won't go for that foursome without the big prize. However I agree with He1nous that the four central time zone slots and the additions of Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas to the PAC footprint would still be a better option than what they face out West. So maybe the deal gets done that way. It will be interesting to find out.

I also agree with you that the two largest and most powerful players aren't going to compromise their positions at least not on choices number 15 & 16. If it gets bigger than that then all initial criteria has to be subject to change.
I agree. The B1G and SEC won't play second fiddle, especially to each other. I hope Delaney and Slive can work this out in a civil manner. Neither side needs a realignment war. The SEC will not sit back and let the B1G take all the prizes. The B1G wont let that happen either. At this point, the PAC 12 is in no enviable position and will be forced to take what is left. To me, the ACC is now in a better position than the PAC.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2013 05:27 PM by USAFMEDIC.)
08-16-2013 05:24 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
(08-16-2013 05:24 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(08-13-2013 01:30 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 11:11 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I agree that Big 12 absorption is the most likely scenario, but we have all tried to guess what Texas would do before and been burned.

The more scenarios I see, the more I believe that the B1G and SEC will stick to their guns and invite only those that meet their existing criteria. Is any gang of conferences going to seriously consider making rules that would disqualify the SEC or B1G, such as a minimum number of school members or how they decide their conference champs? I don't think so... nobody is making the SEC or B1G do anything now or in the foreseeable future. So, The B1G will bring in state flagships that are contiguous and are AAU members. Similarly, the SEC will bring in state flagships that are contiguous. Nothing in their histories or recent statements suggest otherwise. I believe when it comes to those two conferences, the adage "the more things change, the more they stay the same" will hold true.

I like your thinking here. Oklahoma and West Virginia are not AAU but are flagships so there are your two to 16 for the SEC. Kansas is AAU and would love to be part of the Big 10 so there is one for them. Buffalo has been rumored as well and is also AAU. Then there is the Canadian option that is intriguing as well. Either way number two for the Big 10 wouldn't come from the Big 12 unless it was either Texas who for a variety of reasons won't go Big 10, or Iowa State a redundant addition that the Big 10 is not likely to take. If Texas goes west they could easily move with Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech. That satisfies the PAC completely but it doesn't get you to the required number of 8. Plus Dodds says he looks to the East. So let's say Texas does go to the ACC as a hybrid and the price of admission is Baylor and TCU and Iowa State takes their place in the group headed West. Now all 10 get placed. There are those who say the PAC won't go for that foursome without the big prize. However I agree with He1nous that the four central time zone slots and the additions of Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas to the PAC footprint would still be a better option than what they face out West. So maybe the deal gets done that way. It will be interesting to find out.

I also agree with you that the two largest and most powerful players aren't going to compromise their positions at least not on choices number 15 & 16. If it gets bigger than that then all initial criteria has to be subject to change.
I agree. The B1G and SEC won't play second fiddle, especially to each other. I hope Delaney and Slive can work this out in a civil manner. Neither side needs a realignment war. The SEC will not sit back and let the B1G take all the prizes. The B1G wont let that happen either. At this point, the PAC 12 is in no enviable position and will be forced to take what is left. To me, the ACC is now in a better position than the PAC.

Personally, for me, in the end it will be that massive carrot at the end of the stick that will lead them all individually in the same direction rather than any true good natured cooperation. They all want the same thing for themselves and in the end they have to know that they will have to grudgingly cooperate and compromise.

The PAC is in a weaker position than the ACC in terms of realignment possibilities but it is far less likely to lose any programs in the process. So, it just depends upon which metric someone uses in determining which conference is weaker than the other.

For me, the Big 12 and only the big 12 suits the NEEDS of everyone involved much more so than the ACC which is why I think the ACC is safe unless we end up seeing both the Big12 and ACC dismantled for a scenario like one of those that JR often posts about.

Right now if the ACC was dismantled, a bunch of programs would have to go to the Big 12 and I don't think any of them want that thus why we saw FSU end up going along with supporting the ACC. The King of the ACC wanted to stay.

That is why I point to Texas in terms of the Big 12 possibly breaking up. They, in the end, will determine it.
08-17-2013 01:06 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
(08-17-2013 01:06 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-16-2013 05:24 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(08-13-2013 01:30 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 11:11 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I agree that Big 12 absorption is the most likely scenario, but we have all tried to guess what Texas would do before and been burned.

The more scenarios I see, the more I believe that the B1G and SEC will stick to their guns and invite only those that meet their existing criteria. Is any gang of conferences going to seriously consider making rules that would disqualify the SEC or B1G, such as a minimum number of school members or how they decide their conference champs? I don't think so... nobody is making the SEC or B1G do anything now or in the foreseeable future. So, The B1G will bring in state flagships that are contiguous and are AAU members. Similarly, the SEC will bring in state flagships that are contiguous. Nothing in their histories or recent statements suggest otherwise. I believe when it comes to those two conferences, the adage "the more things change, the more they stay the same" will hold true.

I like your thinking here. Oklahoma and West Virginia are not AAU but are flagships so there are your two to 16 for the SEC. Kansas is AAU and would love to be part of the Big 10 so there is one for them. Buffalo has been rumored as well and is also AAU. Then there is the Canadian option that is intriguing as well. Either way number two for the Big 10 wouldn't come from the Big 12 unless it was either Texas who for a variety of reasons won't go Big 10, or Iowa State a redundant addition that the Big 10 is not likely to take. If Texas goes west they could easily move with Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech. That satisfies the PAC completely but it doesn't get you to the required number of 8. Plus Dodds says he looks to the East. So let's say Texas does go to the ACC as a hybrid and the price of admission is Baylor and TCU and Iowa State takes their place in the group headed West. Now all 10 get placed. There are those who say the PAC won't go for that foursome without the big prize. However I agree with He1nous that the four central time zone slots and the additions of Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas to the PAC footprint would still be a better option than what they face out West. So maybe the deal gets done that way. It will be interesting to find out.

I also agree with you that the two largest and most powerful players aren't going to compromise their positions at least not on choices number 15 & 16. If it gets bigger than that then all initial criteria has to be subject to change.
I agree. The B1G and SEC won't play second fiddle, especially to each other. I hope Delaney and Slive can work this out in a civil manner. Neither side needs a realignment war. The SEC will not sit back and let the B1G take all the prizes. The B1G wont let that happen either. At this point, the PAC 12 is in no enviable position and will be forced to take what is left. To me, the ACC is now in a better position than the PAC.

Personally, for me, in the end it will be that massive carrot at the end of the stick that will lead them all individually in the same direction rather than any true good natured cooperation. They all want the same thing for themselves and in the end they have to know that they will have to grudgingly cooperate and compromise.

The PAC is in a weaker position than the ACC in terms of realignment possibilities but it is far less likely to lose any programs in the process. So, it just depends upon which metric someone uses in determining which conference is weaker than the other.

For me, the Big 12 and only the big 12 suits the NEEDS of everyone involved much more so than the ACC which is why I think the ACC is safe unless we end up seeing both the Big12 and ACC dismantled for a scenario like one of those that JR often posts about.

Right now if the ACC was dismantled, a bunch of programs would have to go to the Big 12 and I don't think any of them want that thus why we saw FSU end up going along with supporting the ACC. The King of the ACC wanted to stay.

That is why I point to Texas in terms of the Big 12 possibly breaking up. They, in the end, will determine it.
I pretty much agree. If OU/KU makes a decision to leave, it will be because they feel the ground shaking in Austin... Be fun to see who pulls the trigger first.
08-17-2013 03:55 PM
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Post: #26
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
Of course you guys do know that A&M and Missouri were both AAU members and that if Slive and the presidents wanted to continue to build markets and add academics the SEC could look quite differently when realignment is up. Whether we go to 16 or 20 if academics and markets are the organizing principle we could wind up with a conference that looked like this.

At 16 we go for two of the three out of Kansas, Iowa State, and Texas.

At 20 we go for Duke, North Carolina, Georgia Tech and Pitt with two football additions.

The first adds or solidifies two markets and gives the SEC 6 AAU schools.

The latter adds three states and you would have to assume that if Virginia and Virginia Tech were offered we could go to 6 with 4 states and as many as 9 AAU schools. The prospect of keeping Duke, Virginia, North Carolina and Virgina Tech together might be enough to sway those schools. With the SEC enhancing its own version of the CIC this possibility can not be overlooked.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2013 04:47 PM by JRsec.)
08-17-2013 04:44 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
[quote='JRsec' pid='9601784' dateline='1376775877']
Of course you guys do know that A&M and Missouri were both AAU members and that if Slive and the presidents wanted to continue to build markets and add academics the SEC could look quite differently when realignment is up. Whether we go to 16 or 20 if academics and markets are the organizing principle we could wind up with a conference that looked like this.

At 16 we go for two of the three out of Kansas, Iowa State, and Texas.

At 20 we go for Duke, North Carolina, Georgia Tech and Pitt with two football additions.

The first adds or solidifies two markets and gives the SEC 6 AAU schools.

The latter adds three states and you would have to assume that if Virginia and Virginia Tech were offered we could go to 6 with 4 states and as many as 9 AAU schools. The prospect of keeping Duke, Virginia, North Carolina and Virgina Tech together might be enough to sway those schools. With the SEC enhancing its own version of the CIC this possibility can no,
I don't think the SEC will pill any ACC schools now, unless the ACCN blows up. and the GoR is nullified. It will be open season if that happens.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2013 07:24 PM by USAFMEDIC.)
08-17-2013 07:20 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
(08-17-2013 04:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Of course you guys do know that A&M and Missouri were both AAU members and that if Slive and the presidents wanted to continue to build markets and add academics the SEC could look quite differently when realignment is up. Whether we go to 16 or 20 if academics and markets are the organizing principle we could wind up with a conference that looked like this.

At 16 we go for two of the three out of Kansas, Iowa State, and Texas.

At 20 we go for Duke, North Carolina, Georgia Tech and Pitt with two football additions.

The first adds or solidifies two markets and gives the SEC 6 AAU schools.

The latter adds three states and you would have to assume that if Virginia and Virginia Tech were offered we could go to 6 with 4 states and as many as 9 AAU schools. The prospect of keeping Duke, Virginia, North Carolina and Virgina Tech together might be enough to sway those schools. With the SEC enhancing its own version of the CIC this possibility can not be overlooked.

I don't think the SEC will pull any ACC schools now, unless the ACCN blows up. and the GoR is nullified. It will be open season if that happens.
08-17-2013 07:25 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
(08-17-2013 07:25 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(08-17-2013 04:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Of course you guys do know that A&M and Missouri were both AAU members and that if Slive and the presidents wanted to continue to build markets and add academics the SEC could look quite differently when realignment is up. Whether we go to 16 or 20 if academics and markets are the organizing principle we could wind up with a conference that looked like this.

At 16 we go for two of the three out of Kansas, Iowa State, and Texas.

At 20 we go for Duke, North Carolina, Georgia Tech and Pitt with two football additions.

The first adds or solidifies two markets and gives the SEC 6 AAU schools.

The latter adds three states and you would have to assume that if Virginia and Virginia Tech were offered we could go to 6 with 4 states and as many as 9 AAU schools. The prospect of keeping Duke, Virginia, North Carolina and Virgina Tech together might be enough to sway those schools. With the SEC enhancing its own version of the CIC this possibility can not be overlooked.

I don't think the SEC will pull any ACC schools now, unless the ACCN blows up. and the GoR is nullified. It will be open season if that happens.

The only reason we would go for 20 is if the Big 10 is pushing for 20 and since there is no way to do that without breaching the ACC it would be open season if 20 was the game. At 16 each or even 18 each they are safe.
08-17-2013 08:11 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
With the latest rumors coming out of the Ohio State rivals site, and they are just that rumors, it still calls us back to the most likely end game, the Big 12 gets absorbed. The rumors are based upon supposed conversations taking place between the schools of the Big 12 and other conferences. These conversations happen all of the time. But, I do think that at this stage of events, just two years away from new contracts taking effect, the start of the 4 team playoff, and with the possible breakaway, or new upper tier just six months away from some definitive direction, it is highly likely that these conversations are for keeps, although nothing has yet to be determined as far as who is going where.

In the next few months I believe we will know something as to whether the Big 12 stays or goes. It may be a while longer than that before we know who goes where if they are indeed being absorbed.

I agree that the Big 12 absorption may be one of the easiest solutions to the expansion issue, but it will be far from perfect. In fact ultimately it may benefit only the members of the Big 12 in as much as it gets them out of a market quandary. Oklahoma and Texas will be a benefit to the conferences that receive them, but the rest of the advantage will be minimal from a market perspective, and really only Kansas delivers a programming advantage besides that of the aforementioned. And even then the impact of a Kansas addition varies widely depending upon where they land.

I say this to emphasize that the PAC, the Big 10 and the SEC will have to compromise to find value. If one tries to take without cooperation from the other two the GOR will stand and nothing will happen for a decade. If they work together then we will have 4 conferences moving forward. Then the unspoken benefit of the Big 12 absorption will become more evident. The elimination of that conference virtually assures the remaining 4 greater participation in the playoffs and divides the playoff shares by 1 less party for the cost of only 2 to 4 teams depending upon the remaining conferences needs.

As for the SEC, I would love for us to land a Kansas and Oklahoma school because I believe that would solidify A&M and Missouri's comfort in their new home by having some old foes and closer competition, but I would still settle comfortably for Oklahoma and West Virginia from a fan perspective.
08-18-2013 10:29 AM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
I think the greatest benefits are yet to even be seen. They can be imagined by those of us that can comprehend what truly is pushing all of this and what further advances will continue to lead in that direction.

Using old explanations means that someone is only partially looking at the whole situation.

Also not every conference has the same options. They will have to face that reality eventually and take what they can get in order to move on to the Real Goal which will absolutely pay for these so called mediocre additions.
08-18-2013 11:31 AM
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Post: #32
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
(08-18-2013 10:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  With the latest rumors coming out of the Ohio State rivals site, and they are just that rumors, it still calls us back to the most likely end game, the Big 12 gets absorbed. The rumors are based upon supposed conversations taking place between the schools of the Big 12 and other conferences. These conversations happen all of the time. But, I do think that at this stage of events, just two years away from new contracts taking effect, the start of the 4 team playoff, and with the possible breakaway, or new upper tier just six months away from some definitive direction, it is highly likely that these conversations are for keeps, although nothing has yet to be determined as far as who is going where.

In the next few months I believe we will know something as to whether the Big 12 stays or goes. It may be a while longer than that before we know who goes where if they are indeed being absorbed.

I agree that the Big 12 absorption may be one of the easiest solutions to the expansion issue, but it will be far from perfect. In fact ultimately it may benefit only the members of the Big 12 in as much as it gets them out of a market quandary. Oklahoma and Texas will be a benefit to the conferences that receive them, but the rest of the advantage will be minimal from a market perspective, and really only Kansas delivers a programming advantage besides that of the aforementioned. And even then the impact of a Kansas addition varies widely depending upon where they land.

I say this to emphasize that the PAC, the Big 10 and the SEC will have to compromise to find value. If one tries to take without cooperation from the other two the GOR will stand and nothing will happen for a decade. If they work together then we will have 4 conferences moving forward. Then the unspoken benefit of the Big 12 absorption will become more evident. The elimination of that conference virtually assures the remaining 4 greater participation in the playoffs and divides the playoff shares by 1 less party for the cost of only 2 to 4 teams depending upon the remaining conferences needs.

As for the SEC, I would love for us to land a Kansas and Oklahoma school because I believe that would solidify A&M and Missouri's comfort in their new home by having some old foes and closer competition, but I would still settle comfortably for Oklahoma and West Virginia from a fan perspective.

Our comfort is better served by NOT taking any Oklahoma (or Texas) teams.

Besides the obvious that OK schools are Texas school for all intents and purposes when it comes to Texas recruiting and we don't want to share the SEC advantage with a direct competitor, I think a lot of people assume that because we are a Texas team we really want/need a rivalry with an OK team.

The thing is though, the whole TX vs OK thing is really limited to UT and OU. Its their traditional thing but it doesn't really extend to anyone else. In fact, during the SWC era, A&M rarely scheduled either OK school, instead preferring to schedule teams in the southeast for OOC games. That was part of the frustration of the B12 for many of us, that we were joining this conference of Great Plains schools we had no history or commonality with.

So IOW, we would prefer WVU over any OK school! 04-cheers
08-18-2013 12:13 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
(08-18-2013 12:13 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 10:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  With the latest rumors coming out of the Ohio State rivals site, and they are just that rumors, it still calls us back to the most likely end game, the Big 12 gets absorbed. The rumors are based upon supposed conversations taking place between the schools of the Big 12 and other conferences. These conversations happen all of the time. But, I do think that at this stage of events, just two years away from new contracts taking effect, the start of the 4 team playoff, and with the possible breakaway, or new upper tier just six months away from some definitive direction, it is highly likely that these conversations are for keeps, although nothing has yet to be determined as far as who is going where.

In the next few months I believe we will know something as to whether the Big 12 stays or goes. It may be a while longer than that before we know who goes where if they are indeed being absorbed.

I agree that the Big 12 absorption may be one of the easiest solutions to the expansion issue, but it will be far from perfect. In fact ultimately it may benefit only the members of the Big 12 in as much as it gets them out of a market quandary. Oklahoma and Texas will be a benefit to the conferences that receive them, but the rest of the advantage will be minimal from a market perspective, and really only Kansas delivers a programming advantage besides that of the aforementioned. And even then the impact of a Kansas addition varies widely depending upon where they land.

I say this to emphasize that the PAC, the Big 10 and the SEC will have to compromise to find value. If one tries to take without cooperation from the other two the GOR will stand and nothing will happen for a decade. If they work together then we will have 4 conferences moving forward. Then the unspoken benefit of the Big 12 absorption will become more evident. The elimination of that conference virtually assures the remaining 4 greater participation in the playoffs and divides the playoff shares by 1 less party for the cost of only 2 to 4 teams depending upon the remaining conferences needs.

As for the SEC, I would love for us to land a Kansas and Oklahoma school because I believe that would solidify A&M and Missouri's comfort in their new home by having some old foes and closer competition, but I would still settle comfortably for Oklahoma and West Virginia from a fan perspective.

Our comfort is better served by NOT taking any Oklahoma (or Texas) teams.

Besides the obvious that OK schools are Texas school for all intents and purposes when it comes to Texas recruiting and we don't want to share the SEC advantage with a direct competitor, I think a lot of people assume that because we are a Texas team we really want/need a rivalry with an OK team.

The thing is though, the whole TX vs OK thing is really limited to UT and OU. Its their traditional thing but it doesn't really extend to anyone else. In fact, during the SWC era, A&M rarely scheduled either OK school, instead preferring to schedule teams in the southeast for OOC games. That was part of the frustration of the B12 for many of us, that we were joining this conference of Great Plains schools we had no history or commonality with.

So IOW, we would prefer WVU over any OK school! 04-cheers
I agree 10th. We are both pretty comfortable now. I would like to see WVU for the east side. Who would be your other choice to get to sixteen?
(This post was last modified: 08-18-2013 12:50 PM by USAFMEDIC.)
08-18-2013 12:48 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
In an ideal world, Virginia Tech or NCSU would be #15 and #16, but if they are off the table then I would choose WVU and FSU as #15 and #16 with the understanding that UF has to be onboard with it first.

If nobody wants a new team in their state and the ACC schools are intransigent, I'd say screw it and tell ECU their dream just came true and they are WVU's new travel partner.

If we wanted to really go outside the traditional SEC comfort zone, we might actually consider Pitt as another possibility for #16. They are AAU, get the SEC into a big state, improve our basketball, have a longstanding rivalry with WVU and frankly, if we can take a school as far north as WVU is anyway, we can take the school from a blue collar steel town just a few miles up the road from Morgantown too!
(This post was last modified: 08-18-2013 01:23 PM by 10thMountain.)
08-18-2013 01:19 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
(08-18-2013 01:19 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  In an ideal world, Virginia Tech or NCSU would be #15 and #16, but if they are off the table then I would choose WVU and FSU as #15 and #16 with the understanding that UF has to be onboard with it first.

If nobody wants a new team in their state and the ACC schools are intransigent, I'd say screw it and tell ECU their dream just came true and they are WVU's new travel partner.

If we wanted to really go outside the traditional SEC comfort zone, we might actually consider Pitt as another possibility for #16. They are AAU, get the SEC into a big state, improve our basketball, have a longstanding rivalry with WVU and frankly, if we can take a school as far north as WVU is anyway, we can take the school from a blue collar steel town just a few miles up the road from Morgantown too!

So you would cost everyone the entire scenario simply because you are worried about Oklahoma State stealing your recruits?

This is an all or nothing scenario. Compromise will have to be made on all accounts.
08-18-2013 01:29 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
(08-18-2013 01:19 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  In an ideal world, Virginia Tech or NCSU would be #15 and #16, but if they are off the table then I would choose WVU and FSU as #15 and #16 with the understanding that UF has to be onboard with it first.

If nobody wants a new team in their state and the ACC schools are intransigent, I'd say screw it and tell ECU their dream just came true and they are WVU's new travel partner.

If we wanted to really go outside the traditional SEC comfort zone, we might actually consider Pitt as another possibility for #16. They are AAU, get the SEC into a big state, improve our basketball, have a longstanding rivalry with WVU and frankly, if we can take a school as far north as WVU is anyway, we can take the school from a blue collar steel town just a few miles up the road from Morgantown too!

If we didn't land the Sooners or Kansas, and the only reason I strongly suggest those two is because ACC teams are off the table. Then we are faced with do we add two more new markets and make scheduling easier and get a larger guaranteed piece of the playoff revenue, or do we do nothing and get hemmed in. Quite Frankly if I were Larry Scott I'd take 6 from the Big 12 or at least 5 and B.Y.U. and build a third 6 team division.

If we could poach the ACC I personally would love to have F.S.U., but the targets would still be North Carolina and Virginia or their counterparts. But, in my opinion the only way we get North Carolina and Virginia would be to promise them what the Big 10 can't, an addition of 6 teams that places Duke, Virginia, North Carolina, N.C. State, and Virginia Tech all in a 5 team division. The 6th would then be either Pitt for a nice chunk of a new market, or Florida State. The sad thing is Clemson would get left behind. The six I would rather see us get if that scenario ever unfolded would be Virginia Tech, North Carolina, N.C. State, F.S.U., Clemson and West Virginia. I think such an alignment would solidify SEC dominance for the rest of my lifetime and well into that of my children.

I totally understand 10th's position and were I an Aggie would agree. But getting emotion out of it if the SEC could only expand from the Big 12 Oklahoma brings the most to the table outside of the official state of Texas. Kansas would be #2. While Oklahoma is a cultural fit, Kansas is not. That's why I would prefer West Virginia. But I strongly suspect the conference office and presidents would want the Kansas basketball brand and their AAU status.
08-18-2013 02:12 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
(08-18-2013 01:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 01:19 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  In an ideal world, Virginia Tech or NCSU would be #15 and #16, but if they are off the table then I would choose WVU and FSU as #15 and #16 with the understanding that UF has to be onboard with it first.

If nobody wants a new team in their state and the ACC schools are intransigent, I'd say screw it and tell ECU their dream just came true and they are WVU's new travel partner.

If we wanted to really go outside the traditional SEC comfort zone, we might actually consider Pitt as another possibility for #16. They are AAU, get the SEC into a big state, improve our basketball, have a longstanding rivalry with WVU and frankly, if we can take a school as far north as WVU is anyway, we can take the school from a blue collar steel town just a few miles up the road from Morgantown too!

So you would cost everyone the entire scenario simply because you are worried about Oklahoma State stealing your recruits?

This is an all or nothing scenario. Compromise will have to be made on all accounts.

Our vote isnt the only vote in the SEC...and if everyone really wanted OSU they could outvote us...but obviously we want no TX or OK teams because it would hurt our recruiting advantage we have over them now.

IOW, I'm sure UI fans would unhappily accept the B1G's decision to add ISU to the conference if thats what the rest wanted, but I think they would also encourage the B1G to explore all the other possibilities before arriving at the "lets add ISU" choice.
08-18-2013 04:00 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
(08-18-2013 04:00 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 01:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(08-18-2013 01:19 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  In an ideal world, Virginia Tech or NCSU would be #15 and #16, but if they are off the table then I would choose WVU and FSU as #15 and #16 with the understanding that UF has to be onboard with it first.

If nobody wants a new team in their state and the ACC schools are intransigent, I'd say screw it and tell ECU their dream just came true and they are WVU's new travel partner.

If we wanted to really go outside the traditional SEC comfort zone, we might actually consider Pitt as another possibility for #16. They are AAU, get the SEC into a big state, improve our basketball, have a longstanding rivalry with WVU and frankly, if we can take a school as far north as WVU is anyway, we can take the school from a blue collar steel town just a few miles up the road from Morgantown too!

So you would cost everyone the entire scenario simply because you are worried about Oklahoma State stealing your recruits?

This is an all or nothing scenario. Compromise will have to be made on all accounts.

Our vote isnt the only vote in the SEC...and if everyone really wanted OSU they could outvote us...but obviously we want no TX or OK teams because it would hurt our recruiting advantage we have over them now.

IOW, I'm sure UI fans would unhappily accept the B1G's decision to add ISU to the conference if thats what the rest wanted, but I think they would also encourage the B1G to explore all the other possibilities before arriving at the "lets add ISU" choice.

Fair point but the more likely comparison to your A&M and Oklahoma State statement wouldn't be Iowa and Iowa State it would be Iowa and Nebraska.
08-18-2013 05:19 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
Sort of, because like I mentioned the OK schools are basically defacto TX schools because TX is where they do the lion share of their recruiting and they sell recruits and their families on playing a lot of their games in the state of Texas

If a compromise was truly needed and we had to take a B12 team who isn't KU and or WVU, then I would support taking one of the DFW privates since they are low risk to A&M while still firmly planting the SEC flag in DFW (ie the same big prize taking an OK school offers)
08-18-2013 05:50 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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RE: Realignment End Game Scenarios:
(08-18-2013 05:50 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Sort of, because like I mentioned the OK schools are basically defacto TX schools because TX is where they do the lion share of their recruiting and they sell recruits and their families on playing a lot of their games in the state of Texas

If a compromise was truly needed and we had to take a B12 team who isn't KU and or WVU, then I would support taking one of the DFW privates since they are low risk to A&M while still firmly planting the SEC flag in DFW (ie the same big prize taking an OK school offers)

I can absolutely see where you are coming with taking one of the privates instead but I actually think they are a bigger risk to you in the SEC then they are in the current Big 12. In the Big 12 they are heavily shadowed.

Also, as an Aggie, I understand that this may be hard to admit but you do realize that any of this happening depends on Texas receiving first satisfaction right? Their landing spot has to be figured out first. If it is the ACC then you have to take into account both Texas's viewpoint and the ACC's. Are they going to prefer one of the Oklahoma's? Between them and Texas, it just seems to me like the two privates are the compromise between the two of them. Of course that is simply my opinion and nothing more.

Once the Texas situation is figured out then you just go down the line in importance.
08-18-2013 07:07 PM
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