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Big 12 GoR
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domer1978 Offline
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Post: #1
Big 12 GoR
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8jb5kvZ...edit?pli=1

Got this from WVU board- KyleSLamb
(This post was last modified: 08-06-2013 04:19 PM by domer1978.)
08-06-2013 04:09 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Big 12 GoR
Good information for the board. +2 for that.
08-06-2013 04:19 PM
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ChrisLords Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Big 12 GoR
Great! Now all we need is a legal guru to explain it to us.
08-06-2013 04:23 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: Big 12 GoR
Im not seeing the double secret Dodds exit loophole....
(This post was last modified: 08-06-2013 04:30 PM by Attackcoog.)
08-06-2013 04:26 PM
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PlayBall! Offline
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RE: Big 12 GoR
I've never played a lawyer on TV, but it reads as simple and tight.
08-06-2013 04:47 PM
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4x4hokies Offline
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RE: Big 12 GoR
(08-06-2013 04:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Im not seeing the double secret Dodds exit loophole....

Seems to me that the "loophole" is that you can leave the conference whenever you want and the B12 broadcasts your games through the end of the agreement. I don't see anywhere in there that the school doesn't continue to receive payment for their rights.
08-06-2013 04:47 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Big 12 GoR
(08-06-2013 04:47 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Im not seeing the double secret Dodds exit loophole....

Seems to me that the "loophole" is that you can leave the conference whenever you want and the B12 broadcasts your games through the end of the agreement. I don't see anywhere in there that the school doesn't continue to receive payment for their rights.

It looks like a straight pass-through of the rights. Each school signed the rights over to the Big 12 for the length of the agreement and the Big 12 signed those rights over to ESPN and Fox in exchange for lots and lots of money. And you're right, it would appear that a departing school still gets paid if they leave, and their media rights (except for Tier 3 which the GOR excludes) remain with ESPN and Fox (per the Big 12 TV deal) until the GOR expires.
08-06-2013 04:55 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: Big 12 GoR
(08-06-2013 04:55 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:47 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Im not seeing the double secret Dodds exit loophole....

Seems to me that the "loophole" is that you can leave the conference whenever you want and the B12 broadcasts your games through the end of the agreement. I don't see anywhere in there that the school doesn't continue to receive payment for their rights.

It looks like a straight pass-through of the rights. Each school signed the rights over to the Big 12 for the length of the agreement and the Big 12 signed those rights over to ESPN and Fox in exchange for lots and lots of money. And you're right, it would appear that a departing school still gets paid if they leave, and their media rights (except for Tier 3 which the GOR excludes) remain with ESPN and Fox (per the Big 12 TV deal) until the GOR expires.

...or if the television deals are voided.

It still reads like it's dependent on favorable media renegotiations. No continuation of the deal, GoR potentially dissolved.
08-06-2013 05:04 PM
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PlayBall! Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Big 12 GoR
The money from the TV contracts go to the conference, and the conference divies it up to current members according to other agreements (equally in the Big 12). So if you leave, you don't get a cut.
08-06-2013 05:08 PM
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4x4hokies Offline
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RE: Big 12 GoR
(08-06-2013 05:04 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:55 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:47 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Im not seeing the double secret Dodds exit loophole....

Seems to me that the "loophole" is that you can leave the conference whenever you want and the B12 broadcasts your games through the end of the agreement. I don't see anywhere in there that the school doesn't continue to receive payment for their rights.

It looks like a straight pass-through of the rights. Each school signed the rights over to the Big 12 for the length of the agreement and the Big 12 signed those rights over to ESPN and Fox in exchange for lots and lots of money. And you're right, it would appear that a departing school still gets paid if they leave, and their media rights (except for Tier 3 which the GOR excludes) remain with ESPN and Fox (per the Big 12 TV deal) until the GOR expires.

...or if the television deals are voided.

It still reads like it's dependent on favorable media renegotiations. No continuation of the deal, GoR potentially dissolved.

Well it is based on those specific deals with Fox and ESPN that are referenced. Any new deal would require a new grant of rights.

It'd be interesting to see the Television Rights Agreement. I'd like to know how many home games you have to maintain and if things like the Red River game are specifically spelled out in it. As in, if Texas left, would that be considered an away game and not subject to the B12 GOR, thus becoming a new revenue stream for Texas.

This GOR has certainly made me rethink whether the conference retaining more "third tier" rights is necessarily a bad thing. With the B12, you could leave and take a home football game and several basketball games with you in addition to all your minor sports broadcasts. In the ACC, presumably, you'd have less rights to take with you if you wanted to shop around (not to mention having to pay the 50 million dollar exit fee).
08-06-2013 05:12 PM
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4x4hokies Offline
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RE: Big 12 GoR
(08-06-2013 05:08 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  The money from the TV contracts go to the conference, and the conference divies it up to current members according to other agreements (equally in the Big 12). So if you leave, you don't get a cut.

It sounds like the Television Rights Agreement is what is governing all of this. I'm guessing any attempt to amend the TRA to exclude one of the GOR members from the payout would nullify the agreement.
(This post was last modified: 08-06-2013 05:25 PM by 4x4hokies.)
08-06-2013 05:17 PM
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EerMeNow Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Big 12 GoR
Two things I think:


1. It would take an attorney with a specialization in media rights- and a knowledge of the appropriate case law- to interpret just how "air tight" this document is.


2. Politics trumps rule of law. If Texas wants out, they will find a way out regardless of the answer to number 1.
08-06-2013 05:18 PM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: Big 12 GoR
(08-06-2013 04:55 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:47 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Im not seeing the double secret Dodds exit loophole....

Seems to me that the "loophole" is that you can leave the conference whenever you want and the B12 broadcasts your games through the end of the agreement. I don't see anywhere in there that the school doesn't continue to receive payment for their rights.

It looks like a straight pass-through of the rights. Each school signed the rights over to the Big 12 for the length of the agreement and the Big 12 signed those rights over to ESPN and Fox in exchange for lots and lots of money. And you're right, it would appear that a departing school still gets paid if they leave, and their media rights (except for Tier 3 which the GOR excludes) remain with ESPN and Fox (per the Big 12 TV deal) until the GOR expires.

I don't practice media law, but the idea that the departing school would not continue to be paid but the previous conference media partner would continue to hold the rights for free doesn't seem likely to hold up in court to me.
08-06-2013 06:00 PM
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Lurker Above Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Big 12 GoR
(08-06-2013 04:09 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8jb5kvZ...edit?pli=1

Got this from WVU board- KyleSLamb

Where is the rest of it?
08-06-2013 06:09 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Big 12 GoR
(08-06-2013 04:47 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Im not seeing the double secret Dodds exit loophole....

Seems to me that the "loophole" is that you can leave the conference whenever you want and the B12 broadcasts your games through the end of the agreement. I don't see anywhere in there that the school doesn't continue to receive payment for their rights.

You could argue a school who leaves and goes to a better conference would be doing their former conference a favor. Fox would love to have rights to home games against Big 10 or SEC opponents.
08-06-2013 06:18 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: Big 12 GoR
(08-06-2013 06:00 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:55 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:47 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Im not seeing the double secret Dodds exit loophole....

Seems to me that the "loophole" is that you can leave the conference whenever you want and the B12 broadcasts your games through the end of the agreement. I don't see anywhere in there that the school doesn't continue to receive payment for their rights.

It looks like a straight pass-through of the rights. Each school signed the rights over to the Big 12 for the length of the agreement and the Big 12 signed those rights over to ESPN and Fox in exchange for lots and lots of money. And you're right, it would appear that a departing school still gets paid if they leave, and their media rights (except for Tier 3 which the GOR excludes) remain with ESPN and Fox (per the Big 12 TV deal) until the GOR expires.

I don't practice media law, but the idea that the departing school would not continue to be paid but the previous conference media partner would continue to hold the rights for free doesn't seem likely to hold up in court to me.

That's what I have always thought. So Texas moves to the Big10. The Big-12 ends up with Texas home games vs Michigan and Ohio St to add to their inventory. The Big Ten adds the Texas away games to their network inventory. Texas gets regular media cut from the Big-12, but no media from the Big-10. That all makes sense--except, where does the money come from to pay the replacement member for the Big12?
(This post was last modified: 08-06-2013 06:39 PM by Attackcoog.)
08-06-2013 06:38 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Big 12 GoR
(08-06-2013 06:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 06:00 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:55 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:47 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Im not seeing the double secret Dodds exit loophole....

Seems to me that the "loophole" is that you can leave the conference whenever you want and the B12 broadcasts your games through the end of the agreement. I don't see anywhere in there that the school doesn't continue to receive payment for their rights.

It looks like a straight pass-through of the rights. Each school signed the rights over to the Big 12 for the length of the agreement and the Big 12 signed those rights over to ESPN and Fox in exchange for lots and lots of money. And you're right, it would appear that a departing school still gets paid if they leave, and their media rights (except for Tier 3 which the GOR excludes) remain with ESPN and Fox (per the Big 12 TV deal) until the GOR expires.

I don't practice media law, but the idea that the departing school would not continue to be paid but the previous conference media partner would continue to hold the rights for free doesn't seem likely to hold up in court to me.

That's what I have always thought. So Texas moves to the Big10. The Big-12 ends up with Texas home games vs Michigan and Ohio St to add to their inventory. The Big Ten adds the Texas away games to their network inventory. Texas gets regular media cut from the Big-12, but no media from the Big-10. That all makes sense--except, where does the money come from to pay the replacement member for the Big12?

If Texas leaves, everyone else who can leave is going to be looking for an exit and not thinking about "replacing" the Horns.

... but if, say, Iowa State leaves (I guess that would be the equivalent of Maryland leaving the ACC) then they'd bring someone else in and move on. Probably a school from a non-Big 5 league who would be so deliriously happy to be in a Big 5 conference that they won't mind getting little or no TV money until after that GOR expires.
08-06-2013 06:50 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Big 12 GoR
(08-06-2013 05:17 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 05:08 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  The money from the TV contracts go to the conference, and the conference divies it up to current members according to other agreements (equally in the Big 12). So if you leave, you don't get a cut.

It sounds like the Television Rights Agreement is what is governing all of this. I'm guessing any attempt to amend the TRA to exclude one of the GOR members from the payout would nullify the agreement.

So what are the chances that the TRA has a clause that says if Texas and/or Oklahoma leave they renegotiate the contract?

I also find the bit about the conference owning the copyright interesting. If Texas and Oklahoma did leave, the B12 could broadcast a previous UT/UO game at the same time the current game is airing. (Assuming they could find someone to broadcast it).
08-06-2013 06:52 PM
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CommuterBob Offline
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RE: Big 12 GoR
(08-06-2013 06:00 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:55 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:47 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Im not seeing the double secret Dodds exit loophole....

Seems to me that the "loophole" is that you can leave the conference whenever you want and the B12 broadcasts your games through the end of the agreement. I don't see anywhere in there that the school doesn't continue to receive payment for their rights.

It looks like a straight pass-through of the rights. Each school signed the rights over to the Big 12 for the length of the agreement and the Big 12 signed those rights over to ESPN and Fox in exchange for lots and lots of money. And you're right, it would appear that a departing school still gets paid if they leave, and their media rights (except for Tier 3 which the GOR excludes) remain with ESPN and Fox (per the Big 12 TV deal) until the GOR expires.

I don't practice media law, but the idea that the departing school would not continue to be paid but the previous conference media partner would continue to hold the rights for free doesn't seem likely to hold up in court to me.

But that's exactly what this GoR does. The XII owns the rights. Theoretically, if the school leaves, the TV rights stay with the conference and since the school is no longer a member of the conference, they would get nothing. The rights fee would be distributed to the remaining members as part of the equitable conference distribution.

Think of it like a record deal. The artist is the school. The record company is the conference. The radio/itunes/record store is the TV deal. The TV partner gets to broadcast the game, but they don't own it, the conference does.

However, it would NEVER come to that in reality. No new conference would stand to have a conference game of their be beholdened to the media deal of another conference. That's just silly. The school would have to buy back the rights from the old conference and that would have to be a point of negotiation.

Also keep in mind that a GoR is voluntary and unanimous. If one party fails to sign it, it is worthless. So by having all 10 members sign it, it means they were (at least at one point in time) all VERY committed to staying until at least June 30, 2025.
08-06-2013 07:31 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Big 12 GoR
(08-06-2013 07:31 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  Think of it like a record deal. The artist is the school. The record company is the conference. The radio/itunes/record store is the TV deal. The TV partner gets to broadcast the game, but they don't own it, the conference does.

The TV partner holds the broadcast rights as part of a contract that starts and ends on the same days as the GOR. Unless the TV deal is cancelled, those rights have been sold to ESPN/Fox through the end of the TV deal. The conference can't sell them again to someone else or stop ESPN/Fox from broadcasting the games. It's like a lease, right? If I lease a house for a year, the landlord can't lease it to anyone else and can't stop me from using the house during that period -- unless I stop paying rent. Should be the same for any team in the Big 12. Even if they leave, their TV rights remain with the B12 (and remain passed to ESPN/Fox) -- unless the conference stops paying the departing team's share of the TV money.
08-06-2013 09:32 PM
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