Well at least in my opinion he does. In the event you haven't heard Johnny Manziel may be losing his eligibility because of some autographs he benefited from in last year's national championship game. Bilas pointed out that just a few weeks ago Texas A&M sold a table for $20,000 to a high bidder for some big donor to sit and have one on one time with Manziel. Here is a kid that may have juts made around $100 on some autographs yet the university made $20k in one setting on top of what he is bringing in because of the buzz he brings in.

Jay suggested that they go to the Olympic model where the athlete can benefit away from campus on their own accord like Phelps doing commercials or signings that isn't initiated by the US Olympic team rather his people. Jay said that when this is brought up the NCAA and presidents scoff at it because it "creates a competitive imbalance" in recruiting. To me is sounds like they just don't want to share.

Like Jay pointed out the NCAA wants the "student athlete" to be treated no different than any other student on campus when in fact they are treated very different as they are restricted. Any regular college student can gain employment in their field of study while they are student and be paid and reap financial gain. There are plenty of students out there in the Arts that perform in their craft for pay yet that is just fine.

Yes they get a scholarship but when you look at the cost of the scholarship in comparison with the money made by the school by the notoriety and buzz created by certain players it is gravely imbalanced. Now I am not for the NCAA paying players but I do believe that, that player should be able to maximize off of their notoriety because the truth of the matter is a larger portion of the most popular players on a team will never go pro and will never realize any gain off of their popularity.

If Cato wants to give autographs there should be nothing wrong with it. People are going to find these players. They bring t-shirts, helmets, cards, pictures, or anything else. There should be nothing wrong for a player doing a autograph signing for a couple hundred dollars when the university, NCAA, bowl presidents, and networks are making billions off of them for 3-4 years.

(08-04-2013 11:14 PM)BleedsGreen33 Wrote:  Well at least in my opinion he does. In the event you haven't heard Johnny Manziel may be losing his eligibility because of some autographs he benefited from in last year's national championship game. Bilas pointed out that just a few weeks ago Texas A&M sold a table for $20,000 to a high bidder for some big donor to sit and have one on one time with Manziel. Here is a kid that may have juts made around $100 on some autographs yet the university made $20k in one setting on top of what he is bringing in because of the buzz he brings in.

Jay suggested that they go to the Olympic model where the athlete can benefit away from campus on their own accord like Phelps doing commercials or signings that isn't initiated by the US Olympic team rather his people. Jay said that when this is brought up the NCAA and presidents scoff at it because it "creates a competitive imbalance" in recruiting. To me is sounds like they just don't want to share.

Like Jay pointed out the NCAA wants the "student athlete" to be treated no different than any other student on campus when in fact they are treated very different as they are restricted. Any regular college student can gain employment in their field of study while they are student and be paid and reap financial gain. There are plenty of students out there in the Arts that perform in their craft for pay yet that is just fine.

Yes they get a scholarship but when you look at the cost of the scholarship in comparison with the money made by the school by the notoriety and buzz created by certain players it is gravely imbalanced. Now I am not for the NCAA paying players but I do believe that, that player should be able to maximize off of their notoriety because the truth of the matter is a larger portion of the most popular players on a team will never go pro and will never realize any gain off of their popularity.

If Cato wants to give autographs there should be nothing wrong with it. People are going to find these players. They bring t-shirts, helmets, cards, pictures, or anything else. There should be nothing wrong for a player doing a autograph signing for a couple hundred dollars when the university, NCAA, bowl presidents, and networks are making billions off of them for 3-4 years.

people don't think this the hell through. this isn't about cato. it's about the manziels and the clowneys and the alabamas and the oklahomas of the world.

you want to give the mega-bucks conferences yet another way to recruit? what do you think alabama is going to do with an exception like this?

they're going to hold gaddam autographing parties, and all their megabucks supporters are going to rain money on all the little crimson tide dudes.

jeez. think. if this happens, we're hosed.

I heard he earned five figures for the autographs...not just "$100."

and the whole notion that party "x" is "making millions off "party "b" is just moldy. first of all, it's a voluntary association.

second of all, there was a time when the whole goal was getting an education.

then the world lost its mind, and college football became bigger than the colleges that created it. And now, we fume over who "deserves" the millions of dollars in merchandising that this thing called college football generates

meanwhile, college graduates walk across the stage to receive their degrees every year, and they are a little dumber than the dummies that graduated the year before.

and people don’t see the connection between these things.

And regarding those millions that poor little Johnny is getting fuxxored out of; as we have discussed and discussed and discussed, facilities are expensive. Without aTm being able to market it's product, poor little Johnny wouldn't have a stadium to showcase his skills to the nfl on Saturdays, or a several different spiffy uniforms to style around in, or a jock to stuff his junk into.

I swear, as a culture, we've got it in our heads that someone is ********* someone in every single possible social interaction .... All of them.

It's silly, and it's stupid, and it's unproductive.


...... and in this particular case, it's suicidal for us.

(08-04-2013 11:26 PM)JeeberD Wrote:  I heard he earned five figures for the autographs...not just "$100."

Exactly so. Everyone is reporting "five figures". so, $10,000 and up. Not $100 bucks

The athletes get more than "just a scholarship." How about getting to use some of the best training facilities available. Just look at the Oregon facilities thread. Schools spend a ton of money on facilities to give their athletes the best facility money can buy and in many cases they are as good as what professional teams have.

People are willing to give him money because of the uniform. Put him on G5 or a FCS team and he would just another overlooked talented player.

(08-04-2013 11:25 PM)EagleX Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 11:14 PM)BleedsGreen33 Wrote:  Well at least in my opinion he does. In the event you haven't heard Johnny Manziel may be losing his eligibility because of some autographs he benefited from in last year's national championship game.

people don't think this the hell through. this isn't about cato. it's about the manziels and the clowneys and the alabamas and the oklahomas of the world.

you want to give the mega-bucks conferences yet another way to recruit? what do you think alabama is going to do with an exception like this?

they're going to hold gaddam autographing parties, and all their megabucks supporters are going to rain money on all the little crimson tide dudes.

jeez. think. if this happens, we're hosed.

I'm with X on this one. If this were to be allowed, college athletics as we knew them (hell, not even as we know them now) are FINISHED. A little PR hype from the P5 schools and they'd be raking in the money even moreso than now.

I was willing to defend JM on the frat party issue.. It was just a kid being a kid at university. But the gaining money on his signatures... That one falls on both JM AND the A&M coaching staff (if they didn't tell him beforehand what was about to happen to him.)

i have long been in favor of letting college athletes make money off their likeness on their own....if they can.

and i don't think it hurts recruiting at all. in fact, I think it helps.

if RGIII had gone to Texas instead of Baylor, he'd have been playing WR or DB and never made a name for himself.

guys aren't going to want to be the backup QB any more than they do now. They will go where they can shine and make a name for themselves. Being able to profit off that name will only help the talent spread out. Can't be heard if you are on the bench.

I have no idea who else recruited Cato, but would he be doing, or even given the opportunity, to do what he is doing now at a bigger school. probably not. So it seems like he can maximize whatever he can get by being at a G5 school. It may not be as much as Manziel, but it may not be nothing either.

(08-04-2013 11:45 PM)EagleX Wrote:  And regarding those millions that poor little Johnny is getting fuxxored out of; as we have discussed and discussed and discussed, facilities are expensive. Without aTm being able to market it's product, poor little Johnny wouldn't have a stadium to showcase his skills to the nfl on Saturdays, or a several different spiffy uniforms to style around in, or a jock to stuff his junk into.

I swear, as a culture, we've got it in our heads that someone is ********* someone in every single possible social interaction .... All of them.

It's silly, and it's stupid, and it's unproductive.


...... and in this particular case, it's suicidal for us.

Very well put.

I swear I don't understand how people can't comprehend this. It costs a lot of money to start up a league, generate fans, generate a watchable product, and eventually generate a profit. Do people not understand that basically every minor league football system in this country has failed, and miserably at that? Without Texas A&M, and all of its students, and all of its graduates, and all of its sponsors, there is no Johnny Football. It is a 2 way street. These guys may feel like they are not getting "their fair share", but as a college graduate with student loans, they can all go f themselves for all I care. These guys want to act like they are treated horribly for 4,5,6 years, when in all actuality they are taken care of quite nicely.(free tuition/books/fees, free room and board, free food, free exposure to potential employers(they do realize how hard it is for the rest of us to find jobs right now, right?), local/statewide/national celebrity status, free medical care, free training facilities, and on and on)

College athletics is already screwed up. It has become such a multi billon dollar business it's disgusting. I don't see how it is right for them to exploit any student for $20,000 to some rich dude to have dinner with him. You can use the arguement that all that money is needed for new facilites for him or anyone else to play in but I come back at that with they are highly unnecessary. Those facilities that Oregon built and these redicuolously huge and expensive stadiums are not necessary. They are wanted and not needed.

And they are not willing to give him money because he is in whatever uniform. There are people at every single school willing to pay for their favorite player. If he were at any school playing football there would be people out there wanting a piece of him. You don't think that Cato isn't hounded for autographs. You don't think that Randy Moss and Chad Pennington weren't hounded and offered money from boosters just like at every other school. Maybe not on a the scale of a Texas or an Oklahoma but they still had it happen.

All I am saying is people profit way too much off of these kids. Some already mega rich dude running whatever BCS bowl is making millions year round not because of the bowl but because of the kids that play in it. Plain an simple. We all saw the scandal with the Fiesta Bowl a couple years ago. That in my opinion is disgusting.

If college sports was just about the student athlete and the sport itself there wouldn't be a need for all this arms race crap. All that matters is the bottom line. 85-100 kids are used to make money each and every year in football and maybe 5 or 6 of them will ever be able to cash in on their names at the end of their college careers.

If the NCAA really wants players to be treated like normal students then stop whoring them out because as much as they try to act like the rules are in place to keep them as a normal student they are doing the opposite.

(08-05-2013 07:43 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  i have long been in favor of letting college athletes make money off their likeness on their own....if they can.

and i don't think it hurts recruiting at all. in fact, I think it helps.

if RGIII had gone to Texas instead of Baylor, he'd have been playing WR or DB and never made a name for himself.

guys aren't going to want to be the backup QB any more than they do now. They will go where they can shine and make a name for themselves. Being able to profit off that name will only help the talent spread out. Can't be heard if you are on the bench.

I have no idea who else recruited Cato, but would he be doing, or even given the opportunity, to do what he is doing now at a bigger school. probably not. So it seems like he can maximize whatever he can get by being at a G5 school. It may not be as much as Manziel, but it may not be nothing either.

none of that is going to matter when alabama tells a 17 year old kid that they can provide 20,000 bucks in additional income just for singing their name a few times.

and that is precisely what they are going to say . . . to everyone they recruit.

(08-05-2013 07:50 AM)BleedsGreen33 Wrote:  College athletics is already screwed up. It has become such a multi billon dollar business it's disgusting. I don't see how it is right for them to exploit any student for $20,000 to some rich dude to have dinner with him. You can use the arguement that all that money is needed for new facilites for him or anyone else to play in but I come back at that with they are highly unnecessary. Those facilities that Oregon built and these redicuolously huge and expensive stadiums are not necessary. They are wanted and not needed.

And they are not willing to give him money because he is in whatever uniform. There are people at every single school willing to pay for their favorite player. If he were at any school playing football there would be people out there wanting a piece of him. You don't think that Cato isn't hounded for autographs. You don't think that Randy Moss and Chad Pennington weren't hounded and offered money from boosters just like at every other school. Maybe not on a the scale of a Texas or an Oklahoma but they still had it happen.

All I am saying is people profit way too much off of these kids. Some already mega rich dude running whatever BCS bowl is making millions year round not because of the bowl but because of the kids that play in it. Plain an simple. We all saw the scandal with the Fiesta Bowl a couple years ago. That in my opinion is disgusting.

If college sports was just about the student athlete and the sport itself there wouldn't be a need for all this arms race crap. All that matters is the bottom line. 85-100 kids are used to make money each and every year in football and maybe 5 or 6 of them will ever be able to cash in on their names at the end of their college careers.

If the NCAA really wants players to be treated like normal students then stop whoring them out because as much as they try to act like the rules are in place to keep them as a normal student they are doing the opposite.

I stopped reading at "exploit", but I already found an error in your reasoning. I would hazard to say that the solution to something that is screwed up is NOT knowingly and intentionally screwing it up infinitely worse.

(08-05-2013 07:50 AM)BleedsGreen33 Wrote:  College athletics is already screwed up. It has become such a multi billon dollar business it's disgusting. I don't see how it is right for them to exploit any student for $20,000 to some rich dude to have dinner with him. You can use the arguement that all that money is needed for new facilites for him or anyone else to play in but I come back at that with they are highly unnecessary. Those facilities that Oregon built and these redicuolously huge and expensive stadiums are not necessary. They are wanted and not needed.

I agree that those types of facilities are not needed but the facilities arms race has started and will not stop IMO. The $20k that a school gets for having a player sit at a particular table is then spent on that student in the form of uniforms/equipment, weight room equipment, indoor practice facilities, housing (which for athletes is getting really nice) and a great training table of food, which allows an athlete to maximize his potential.

And they are not willing to give him money because he is in whatever uniform. There are people at every single school willing to pay for their favorite player. If he were at any school playing football there would be people out there wanting a piece of him. You don't think that Cato isn't hounded for autographs. You don't think that Randy Moss and Chad Pennington weren't hounded and offered money from boosters just like at every other school. Maybe not on a the scale of a Texas or an Oklahoma but they still had it happen.

All I am saying is people profit way too much off of these kids. Some already mega rich dude running whatever BCS bowl is making millions year round not because of the bowl but because of the kids that play in it. Plain an simple. We all saw the scandal with the Fiesta Bowl a couple years ago. That in my opinion is disgusting.

If college sports was just about the student athlete and the sport itself there wouldn't be a need for all this arms race crap. All that matters is the bottom line. 85-100 kids are used to make money each and every year in football and maybe 5 or 6 of them will ever be able to cash in on their names at the end of their college careers.

If the NCAA really wants players to be treated like normal students then stop whoring them out because as much as they try to act like the rules are in place to keep them as a normal student they are doing the opposite.

I do think that a percentage of money from the sale of uniforms with a players name should be but into a trust and given to the player whenever he has used up his eligibility.

I'm assuming Manziel went to that dinner by choice.

Oregon built their facilities because their chief donor owns Nike. He can do whatever the hell he wants with his money.

I believe I heard at one point that Alabama clears $5 million for every home game. Once that stops happening, the "ridiculously huge" stadiums will quit being built. What happened with the Fiesta Bowl was ridiculous, but that has nothing to do with what the players aren't getting. It's apples and oranges.

And yes, there are popular players at every school. No, the players at UAB and Marshall will not be treated the same way players at Alabama and USC are. How can you refuse to acknowledge this? Alabama sells out 100,000 seats every week. UAB and Marshall want 30,000. Even if every fan in our stadium was willing to help a player out, we are outnumbered by a lot. The big schools would gobble up every decent player out there if we gave them freedom like this. We would be done.

Again, a large part of this is the schools themselves. People have ties to schools. Nobody has ties to a semi pro league in their state.

How many schools actually have profitable football teams? Your argument really starts to weaken here. You could eliminate every player on Alabama and replace them with 85 new guys, and the stadium will still sell out. It isn't about Mark Ingram, it's about Alabama.

The players can simply not play if they are being "whored" out. You always have the option of paying your own way to school and working a real job if you need extra money. Then they can see "how bad" they really had it.

What you guys don't seem to understand is how badly the SEC will absolutely abuse this. It won't be 20,000 here and 10,000 there. Within two years of the rule being passed, Alabama will have a payroll that dwarfs the NFL salary cap. You are essentially talking about legalizing the slush funds that buried SMU and should have buried several other schools (Miami anyone?). A school like Ole Miss that tends to recruit a lot of fringe five star players who can't get on the field is suddenly going to see a tremendous recruiting boost because they will tell every kid whose living room they temporarily occupy that they can pay them as much as Alabama or LSU can. And they will get away with it because they have the name recognition and few 17 year old kids are inclined to look very deeply at such things as a university athletic department's financial health relative to its conference mates, and what that means about their ability to pay them (hint: if the donors aren't putting money into the program at the same rate as Alabama's or LSU's donor's, then they aren't going to put it into your pocket at the same rate as Alabama's or LSU's donors would). A Southern Miss going in with that same argument is going to get shut down pretty quick, even though our ability to pay is not that much different from Ole Miss's....but it is a lot different from Alabama's.

That will happen for every single P5 conference team on the planet because right now every single one of them is copying the SEC football model on some level. Whatever phantom separation that exists now will become a very real separation as soon as you give them a built in ability to tell their players they can make more money.

You and I are old enough and wise enough in the world's ways to know that at least half and probably more of those teams will be lying through their teeth about it, but good luck convincing a 17 year old kid that it isn't likely to happen to him.

I'd hope that if universities are able to do this, the states in which these institutions are in would pull their funding and begin helping the smaller schools, I mean if you can afford to give a player a salary, you can pay for you own university.

(08-05-2013 07:50 AM)BleedsGreen33 Wrote:  College athletics is already screwed up. It has become such a multi billon dollar business it's disgusting. I don't see how it is right for them to exploit any student for $20,000 to some rich dude to have dinner with him. You can use the arguement that all that money is needed for new facilites for him or anyone else to play in but I come back at that with they are highly unnecessary. Those facilities that Oregon built and these redicuolously huge and expensive stadiums are not necessary. They are wanted and not needed.

And they are not willing to give him money because he is in whatever uniform. There are people at every single school willing to pay for their favorite player. If he were at any school playing football there would be people out there wanting a piece of him. You don't think that Cato isn't hounded for autographs. You don't think that Randy Moss and Chad Pennington weren't hounded and offered money from boosters just like at every other school. Maybe not on a the scale of a Texas or an Oklahoma but they still had it happen.

All I am saying is people profit way too much off of these kids. Some already mega rich dude running whatever BCS bowl is making millions year round not because of the bowl but because of the kids that play in it. Plain an simple. We all saw the scandal with the Fiesta Bowl a couple years ago. That in my opinion is disgusting.

If college sports was just about the student athlete and the sport itself there wouldn't be a need for all this arms race crap. All that matters is the bottom line. 85-100 kids are used to make money each and every year in football and maybe 5 or 6 of them will ever be able to cash in on their names at the end of their college careers.

If the NCAA really wants players to be treated like normal students then stop whoring them out because as much as they try to act like the rules are in place to keep them as a normal student they are doing the opposite.

if you want to see "exploited", just wait until legal money is tied to these kids. then the predators -- the real ones, not the slightly offensive ones that hock signed mini-footballs for a living, but the ones that that will hurt you (or worse) if you cross them -- will come out of the woodwork.

this cure is infinitely worse than the disease.

This could potentially end up being worse than trying to finger bang an alligator.