(08-01-2013 04:21 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  OK fine, it can be challenged but still presents an obstacle that wasnt there just 9 months ago if that was their plan.

Well they had to sign something because they needed to get a new contract. My guess: issues came up during that process that fast forwarded this process.

(08-01-2013 03:58 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 12:56 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 12:42 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  We're like the Leisure Suit Larry of the cfb world. Always hope and sometimes gettin' laid but mocked forever.

So, stay in CUSA.

Too bad Tulane didn't.

.............. not sure why the pot shots. I <3 LSL.

(08-01-2013 03:25 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 03:23 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 03:21 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 03:13 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 02:57 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Yep, going by my theory of "assume the opposite of everything Aresco says" that means this is hopeless. I don't actually believe that to be the case, but something he says has to actually happen before I'm changing my theory.

What about the access bowl slot that Aresco reportedly spearheaded, when the G5 schools were about to be cut out? That doesn't count, or too long ago?

IIRC, at the time Aresco was saying things like "I feel confident the Big East can get its own contract bowl as a 7th bowl in the system." He may have been instrumental in getting the G5 guaranteed access, but that's not what he was pushing in the press.

Well you always go to negotiations asking for the best situation and work down from there not the opposite.

No doubt. That's why what he said in the article in the OP has me worried. "Could well be above the line" is a weasel-word phrase and leaves a lot of room for doubt.

Then you also must be doubting Larry Scott and Pete Thamel.

(08-01-2013 01:12 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 12:57 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  If Aresco is saying the conference "Could be well above the line," it means we've already been left behind. :frownyface:

Disagree. I don't think it will even be close. We'll be in it.

If being in "Division 4" actually means something, like better access to the playoffs and Access Bowls, and/or more playoffs and media money, then we won't be in it. If it is just administrative window dressing, e.g. the MWC and AAC are brought along but everyone else is out such that the P5 has a majority of the votes and can easily implement stuff like stipends, but otherwise AAC money and access to the playoffs/big bowls stays the same, we will.

(08-01-2013 06:20 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 03:25 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 03:23 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 03:21 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 03:13 PM)TripleA Wrote:  What about the access bowl slot that Aresco reportedly spearheaded, when the G5 schools were about to be cut out? That doesn't count, or too long ago?

IIRC, at the time Aresco was saying things like "I feel confident the Big East can get its own contract bowl as a 7th bowl in the system." He may have been instrumental in getting the G5 guaranteed access, but that's not what he was pushing in the press.

Well you always go to negotiations asking for the best situation and work down from there not the opposite.

No doubt. That's why what he said in the article in the OP has me worried. "Could well be above the line" is a weasel-word phrase and leaves a lot of room for doubt.

Then you also must be doubting Larry Scott and Pete Thamel.

I know what each of them said and that gave me a small sense of relief and a belief that there won't really be a split, or if there is a split that it would be all of FBS and a few non-FBS conferences going along for the ride. What worries me about what Aresco said is that his comments more or less substantiate the rumor that a P5 split is imminent. Maybe it was a poor choice of words, but to say he talked to a P5 commissioner and that there was a line that the American could be above makes me think that a split will be much more exclusive than merely all of FBS or the 150 schools that Thamel indicated.

I said it poorly before, but I'll try to clarify here. If Aresco had said in this interview or at the media day on Tuesday that the American feels the same way about the NCAA governance as the P5, including the belief that a player stipend is necessary and the American needs a governance structure that caters more to the needs of a power conference, then that would lead me to believe more along the lines of Scott and Thamel - that a split won't be that exclusive. But Aresco didn't say that. He went into salesman mode and tried to pitch the conference as deserving of a chance to play at the highest level. Those are not the words of a commissioner that feels solidly that his conference will be included. On the contrary, those are the words of a commissioner who is desperate to keep his conference relevant in the face of an oncoming division that could very well have his conference on the outside.

(08-01-2013 03:56 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 03:49 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  While I agree with your sentiment, it would make me feel a lot better if Aresco had something to the effect that a split wasn't coming or that the American was going to be seeking the same stipulations as the P5. But the fact that he has more or less acknowledged that a split is in the works and that there is an impending line to be drawn to segregate the division/subdivision makes me very concerned that this is much farther along than the Big 5 commissioners have let on. And the fact that he suggested that the American's place in the new division is tenuous and requires salesmanship to secure does not give me any confidence that it will happen.

You have constantly complained that Aresco gave too rosy of a prediction and it did not come true. You repeatedly asked for him to be level. And as we said then, if he told the flat truth you'd complain then, and you disagreed. Now, he lays it out just as he sees it, no sugarcoating, and... you complain that he did not paint a rosier picture.

This is getting ridiculous.

May I ask how you know for sure that Aresco wasn't sugarcoating this??? If the AAC is in dire straits, this news would be the best way to sugarcoat it. I'm not suggesting he is or isn't. Just that you have no more of a case to claim he is painting a clear picture than others who say the opposite.

(08-01-2013 07:40 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 03:56 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 03:49 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  While I agree with your sentiment, it would make me feel a lot better if Aresco had something to the effect that a split wasn't coming or that the American was going to be seeking the same stipulations as the P5. But the fact that he has more or less acknowledged that a split is in the works and that there is an impending line to be drawn to segregate the division/subdivision makes me very concerned that this is much farther along than the Big 5 commissioners have let on. And the fact that he suggested that the American's place in the new division is tenuous and requires salesmanship to secure does not give me any confidence that it will happen.

You have constantly complained that Aresco gave too rosy of a prediction and it did not come true. You repeatedly asked for him to be level. And as we said then, if he told the flat truth you'd complain then, and you disagreed. Now, he lays it out just as he sees it, no sugarcoating, and... you complain that he did not paint a rosier picture.

This is getting ridiculous.

May I ask how you know for sure that Aresco wasn't sugarcoating this??? If the AAC is in dire straits, this news would be the best way to sugarcoat it. I'm not suggesting he is or isn't. Just that you have no more of a case to claim he is painting a clear picture than others who say the opposite.

Exactly. The P-5 don't even know the shape this thing will take. I suspect the Delany/Scott/Swofford vision is different from the Slive/Bowlsby expectations.

Aresco is working hard for this league. I would rather have him advocate for the league and take risks, than be satisfied with the status quo. It's clear this guy wants this conference to flourish , to that I say great, keep it going. Keep talking to the big 5 Comishners, keep us front and center in any conversation about the split coming in college football. This league needs someone who is part salesman, part pit bull, part rainbow spotter. We are not in any position to sit back and rest while the wolf is at the door.

(08-01-2013 11:51 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  Even when Aresco tells him differently, Dodd continues to try and make the case that we should be in the g5

In all fairness, there is a HUGE difference between "could well be" and "is".

Probably why Bill Clinton requested the definition

(08-01-2013 01:12 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 12:57 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  If Aresco is saying the conference "Could be well above the line," it means we've already been left behind. :frownyface:

Disagree. I don't think it will even be close. We'll be in it.

But, I ponder, what is the reward? Assume we end up in this "Division 4" or whatever the hell they call it. I can clearly forsee these "Power 5" squeezing the hell out of what's left of our money.

Take it from a UC fan. 80 million bucks on an athletic center to get in the BE. Rest of the league leaves us high and dry. I have zero doubt that would happen to the AAC schools.

Wait for a power conference invite, IMO...

(08-01-2013 08:12 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 01:12 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 12:57 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  If Aresco is saying the conference "Could be well above the line," it means we've already been left behind. :frownyface:

Disagree. I don't think it will even be close. We'll be in it.

But, I ponder, what is the reward? Assume we end up in this "Division 4" or whatever the hell they call it. I can clearly forsee these "Power 5" squeezing the hell out of what's left of our money.

Take it from a UC fan. 80 million bucks on an athletic center to get in the BE. Rest of the league leaves us high and dry. I have zero doubt that would happen to the AAC schools.

Wait for a power conference invite, IMO...

With the B1G going to 16 teams by 2016 some G5 schools will get a call up...most likely as back fill to the B12/ACC but at least some of us are going to get a call.

(08-01-2013 04:48 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 04:21 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  OK fine, it can be challenged but still presents an obstacle that wasnt there just 9 months ago if that was their plan.

Well they had to sign something because they needed to get a new contract. My guess: issues came up during that process that fast forwarded this process.

Whatever, but one thing I'm certain about, AAC will be wherever the other Group of 5 is when this is over. Be it still in the same division as is now, or in another mid-major division outside the P5. This board is seriously delusional some times. AAC is not above anybody else in the Go5, so go ahead and wish that the newly signed CFP contract gets shredded. Good grief.

(08-01-2013 08:42 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 08:12 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 01:12 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 12:57 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  If Aresco is saying the conference "Could be well above the line," it means we've already been left behind. :frownyface:

Disagree. I don't think it will even be close. We'll be in it.

But, I ponder, what is the reward? Assume we end up in this "Division 4" or whatever the hell they call it. I can clearly forsee these "Power 5" squeezing the hell out of what's left of our money.

Take it from a UC fan. 80 million bucks on an athletic center to get in the BE. Rest of the league leaves us high and dry. I have zero doubt that would happen to the AAC schools.

Wait for a power conference invite, IMO...

With the B1G going to 16 teams by 2016 some G5 schools will get a call up...most likely as back fill to the B12/ACC but at least some of us are going to get a call.

Nobody is getting a call-up. The future for P5 is P4. 4 16-team conferences. There are 64 right now. Notre Dame makes 65. 4x16=64. If anything, there will be a call-down, not a call-up. Any talk otherwise is "in-to-wishing" and not "intuition".

(08-01-2013 08:50 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 08:42 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 08:12 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 01:12 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 12:57 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  If Aresco is saying the conference "Could be well above the line," it means we've already been left behind. :frownyface:

Disagree. I don't think it will even be close. We'll be in it.

But, I ponder, what is the reward? Assume we end up in this "Division 4" or whatever the hell they call it. I can clearly forsee these "Power 5" squeezing the hell out of what's left of our money.

Take it from a UC fan. 80 million bucks on an athletic center to get in the BE. Rest of the league leaves us high and dry. I have zero doubt that would happen to the AAC schools.

Wait for a power conference invite, IMO...

With the B1G going to 16 teams by 2016 some G5 schools will get a call up...most likely as back fill to the B12/ACC but at least some of us are going to get a call.

Nobody is getting a call-up. The future for P5 is P4. 4 16-team conferences. There are 64 right now. Notre Dame makes 65. 4x16=64. If anything, there will be a call-down, not a call-up. Any talk otherwise is "in-to-wishing" and not "intuition".

Doesn't the MAC have its own board?

(08-01-2013 08:42 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  With the B1G going to 16 teams by 2016 some G5 schools will get a call up...most likely as back fill to the B12/ACC but at least some of us are going to get a call.

Since it seems there will be 5, not 4, power conferences, I'd wager not all of them go to 16. Just not enough "quality," money making programs for some to justify the addition.

Bob, I think you're way overreading Aresco's comments as negative. I don't think the P5 are anywhere close to figuring out the details. IMO, Aresco is simply doing what he should be doing: advocating for his conference, BEFORE any decision.

BJ, they have already squeezed all the money and power from us. But we still need to hang with them for callups, for recruiting, and in case they break in other sports, too.

(08-01-2013 11:16 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Bob, I think you're way overreading Aresco's comments as negative. I don't think the P5 are anywhere close to figuring out the details. IMO, Aresco is simply doing what he should be doing: advocating for his conference, BEFORE any decision.

BJ, they have already squeezed all the money and power from us. But we still need to hang with them for callups, for recruiting, and in case they break in other sports, too.

I think the P5 has the equation worked out. Big 12 staying at 10 is for a reason. Lets say the big 12 is dissolved. That makes the AAC the 5th conference for 12 more years. More than likely they will have to merge with MWC for the 5th spot. (that where the money comes in) that why ESPN low balled. as the 5th slot the money jumps dramatically.

(08-01-2013 08:50 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 08:42 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 08:12 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 01:12 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 12:57 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  If Aresco is saying the conference "Could be well above the line," it means we've already been left behind. :frownyface:

Disagree. I don't think it will even be close. We'll be in it.

But, I ponder, what is the reward? Assume we end up in this "Division 4" or whatever the hell they call it. I can clearly forsee these "Power 5" squeezing the hell out of what's left of our money.

Take it from a UC fan. 80 million bucks on an athletic center to get in the BE. Rest of the league leaves us high and dry. I have zero doubt that would happen to the AAC schools.

Wait for a power conference invite, IMO...

With the B1G going to 16 teams by 2016 some G5 schools will get a call up...most likely as back fill to the B12/ACC but at least some of us are going to get a call.

Nobody is getting a call-up. The future for P5 is P4. 4 16-team conferences. There are 64 right now. Notre Dame makes 65. 4x16=64. If anything, there will be a call-down, not a call-up. Any talk otherwise is "in-to-wishing" and not "intuition".

Back to the scrub message board please mr. Mac...

(08-01-2013 08:50 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 08:42 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 08:12 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 01:12 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 12:57 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  If Aresco is saying the conference "Could be well above the line," it means we've already been left behind. :frownyface:

Disagree. I don't think it will even be close. We'll be in it.

But, I ponder, what is the reward? Assume we end up in this "Division 4" or whatever the hell they call it. I can clearly forsee these "Power 5" squeezing the hell out of what's left of our money.

Take it from a UC fan. 80 million bucks on an athletic center to get in the BE. Rest of the league leaves us high and dry. I have zero doubt that would happen to the AAC schools.

Wait for a power conference invite, IMO...

With the B1G going to 16 teams by 2016 some G5 schools will get a call up...most likely as back fill to the B12/ACC but at least some of us are going to get a call.

Nobody is getting a call-up. The future for P5 is P4. 4 16-team conferences. There are 64 right now. Notre Dame makes 65. 4x16=64. If anything, there will be a call-down, not a call-up. Any talk otherwise is "in-to-wishing" and not "intuition".

nope

(08-01-2013 08:12 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 01:12 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 12:57 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  If Aresco is saying the conference "Could be well above the line," it means we've already been left behind. :frownyface:

Disagree. I don't think it will even be close. We'll be in it.

But, I ponder, what is the reward? Assume we end up in this "Division 4" or whatever the hell they call it. I can clearly forsee these "Power 5" squeezing the hell out of what's left of our money.

Take it from a UC fan. 80 million bucks on an athletic center to get in the BE. Rest of the league leaves us high and dry. I have zero doubt that would happen to the AAC schools.

Wait for a power conference invite, IMO...

Yes, anyone who thinks D4 inclusion for the AAC will be the conference-level equivalent of one of our AAC schools getting a P5 invite is engaging in very wishful thinking. If we do get D4 inclusion, it will not mean anything tangible to us in terms of media money, playoffs access or money, or the like, it will just mean that the D4 decided to keep us around for administrative purposes while they now can vote for stuff like stipends without worrying about losing the vote. Our inclusion will be window-dressing.

The only path to the real riches that the P5 have will be for a school to angle successfully for an invite to a P5 conference.