(07-28-2013 06:50 PM)A Fan Wrote:  It is certainly something that would be cool if it actually came to fruition. For Cincinnati, I do not think it would be too hard.

1. Miami (OH)- alternate H/H or play it at Paul Brown yearly
2. MAC school #2- upper tier: either a H/H or a 2/1 with UC getting two home games. (like Toledo)
3. MAC school #3- lower tier: 2/1 or a 3/1 (like Akron)
4. B1G School #1- Upper tier: already have Nebraska, OSU and Michigan on future schedules. Could be a 2/1 at the B1G school with Cincinnati's home game at PBS
5. B1G School #2- Lower tier: a H/H with a school like Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, etc
6. Local Rival- Louisville, Pittsburgh, Va Tech, West Virginia, or any other former BE opponent.
7. Out of region P5 (or MWC) series with a MWC school, lower tier Big 12 or Pac 12 school (like Oregon State, Texas Tech, Fresno, Wyoming,etc)
8-12. Navy, Army, UConn, BYU, Boise State

That certainly looks better than the American conference slate....

Oh well, back to reality

The OP really is getting us all to think outside the box. Hopefully that's what our administrators are doing.

(07-28-2013 06:57 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 06:50 PM)A Fan Wrote:  It is certainly something that would be cool if it actually came to fruition. For Cincinnati, I do not think it would be too hard.

1. Miami (OH)- alternate H/H or play it at Paul Brown yearly
2. MAC school #2- upper tier: either a H/H or a 2/1 with UC getting two home games. (like Toledo)
3. MAC school #3- lower tier: 2/1 or a 3/1 (like Akron)
4. B1G School #1- Upper tier: already have Nebraska, OSU and Michigan on future schedules. Could be a 2/1 at the B1G school with Cincinnati's home game at PBS
5. B1G School #2- Lower tier: a H/H with a school like Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, etc
6. Local Rival- Louisville, Pittsburgh, Va Tech, West Virginia, or any other former BE opponent.
7. Out of region P5 (or MWC) series with a MWC school, lower tier Big 12 or Pac 12 school (like Oregon State, Texas Tech, Fresno, Wyoming,etc)
8-12. Navy, Army, UConn, BYU, Boise State

That certainly looks better than the American conference slate....

Oh well, back to reality

The OP really is getting us all to think outside the box. Hopefully that's what our administrators are doing.

No he isn't. Do you REALLY think it's "brilliant" thinking to make the claim that UCONN should go independent and what type of arrangements it can make to guarantee itself a great FB schedule? It was a long, sophomoric post about how things "should" be in his eyes. No network is going to offer UCONN $25 to $30 million/year for it's sports content. It's not worth the content. Most networks realize that the good rating in the NCAA MBB season don't roll in until March Madness. Prior to that it's largely ho hum unless you are an avid BB fan. The majority of the money is still generated from FB, and UCONN has no where near close to the level of brand equity or history in it's football cache to pull this off. NFW. The SEC and B1G will NEVER set up scheduling agreements to give UCONN 4 guaranteed games/year. Another BS idea pulled from the blue.

I like a good story like the next guy, but at least make it remotely reasonable. This story is utter crap because it has too many errors in assumptions. Boise will NEVER be in the PAC, yet that didn't stop our OP from trying to pull that piece of garbage out of his hat. It's silly and amusing at the same time.

For your info, several Pitt fans have thought out these exact same scenarios in the past. In Pitt's case, you can at least make a somewhat reasonable case for them since they have been an independent for the majority of its history. Pitt does have the brand equity and tradition to possibly pull it off. But I don't think they could realistically do it. UCONN is a whole lot further away from even attempting this.

(07-28-2013 06:21 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 12:55 PM)FromTheInside Wrote:  1) Uconn has a brand far above the AAC.

Laugh if you want, but 98% of the fans on these boards wish their school had UConn's combination of academics, athletic success, markets, name-recognition, etc.

(07-28-2013 06:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 05:17 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 04:18 PM)FromTheInside Wrote:  1) I'm clearly confusing WCC and WAC. Simple mistake. Clowns here act like its a war breaking out.
2) This board seems to not understand what this is all about. When the p5 split there are 4 legit complaints. Bosie, BYU, UConn and Cincy. Others are not on the same level. Sorry Temple, USF, UH, Memphis, SDSU and others. It's the truth. Those 4 have a winning case. So what they do is work their butts off to create a Indy model for the 4 of them. With ND not being a full ACC member the Indy possibilities are open. The p5 by any metric can't hold these 4 back. What these 4 basically are doing is forcing either ND to be pressured to join the ACC full and cause more realignment or Indys of a certain level can join if they fit metrics wise. For ND to join the ACC means they add a 16th team. It also means that the b12 will be forced to add for a ship game also because there is no way the ACC and NDwill be forced to change without the playoff being a conference. Ship teams bid type deal. Basically force another round.
3) Poker faces are strong right now. The B12 is very vulnerable. Media rights can be moved if both media partners are happy with movement. Texas does not want any new members. It's not that a Cincy or BYU is the final x in the league to them. It's the round robin of Texas getting to play who it wants as the league whole fit now. So many close and good tradition games. They would lose some. So if they are going to lose some by the B12 adding and splitting divisions then they might as well move to a new Conference and take who they want with them.
4) You guys want a wildcard? TCU and Baylor to the ACC with UConn and ND for 18.

Why? What would the ACC gain from going to 18? What would the ACC gain from adding either TCU or Baylor? Why do you think that UCONN would get the nod for #16? I doubt SU wants UCONN, BC definitely doesn't want UCONN, FSU and Clemson don't want UCONN, and I would be amazed if any of the NC schools want UCONN. That's 8/15 ACC schools who wouldn't be in favor of adding UCONN.
*What does UCONN bring that FSU wants/needs?
*What does UCONN bring that Clemson wants/needs?
*What does UCONN bring that Duke/NCSU/Wake/UNC wants/needs?
*BC already said that they don't want UCONN, so what has happened to change their minds? (Yes, I know the BC AD retired, Calhoun retired, and UCONN is now BC's Hockey East conference mate, but none of that is hugely influential, given the institutional animosity between the two organizations.)
*And what does UCONN bring that SU can't already get by playing UCONN OOC that would make it worth SU's while to overcrowd the northeast again?

It's hard to know if you're being serious or if you're just stirring the pot.

To what UConn adds that would benefit Syracuse, all you have to do is listen to your own basketball coach.

1. A conference mate who is within reasonable traveling distance
2. A traditional rival.

As for the Northeast being overcrowded, you definitely can't be serious. The Northeast is the least crowded of any region of the country. Consider the following:

1. Syracuse is the only P5 school in the state of NY. Florida has 3 in a state with the same population.
2. New England with a population of 14 million has 1 P5 team. Georgia with a population of 10 million has 2.
3. New Jersey with a population larger than Virginia has 1 P5 team. Virginia has 2.
4. Pennsylvania with a population of almost 13 million has 2 P5 teams. North Carolina with a population of less than 10 million has 4.

The Southeast is the region that's overcrowded, not the Northeast.

UCONN is a reasonable traveling distance, but BC and Pitt aren't? And since when did BC stop being a traditional rival? Furthermore, the ACC already has basketball. I highly doubt that SU is going to be hurting for quality teams on their schedule, given SU, Duke, UNC, and UL are all in the same conference. Anyway, if SU wants to play UCONN, there's no reason why we can't as is. It's not like UCONN is going to say "no." UCONN needs the game more than Syracuse does. Connecticut plays in a conference that is scattered over the country and is without any other elite teams. Don't get me wrong, teams like Memphis and Cincinnati are good, but they aren't elite.

Yes, SU is the only P5 school in NY, and Fla has 3 P5 schools, but Fla has 10+ times the talent. NE may have a population of 14 million to GA's 10 million, but GA produces 10+ times the talent as NE and only have 2X the P5 schools.

To put everything in perspective, VA currently has 4 Rivals 5*'s and 8 Rivals 4*'s. NJ is the least crowded state in the northeast, and NJ has 0 Rivals 5*'s and 9 Rivals 4*'s. And yes, NC is more overcrowded than PA, but NC is far and away the most overcrowded state in the southeast, and look where that's gotten them football-wise. Which one of Duke, UNC, NCSU, and WF has a long and stories football tradition? I'd pick UNC, and I doubt that I would rank UNC in the top 30 programs in the nation, over the length of their history. In fact, Duke and WF might be the two worst P5 schools over the course of their history. Admittedly, NW might give them a run, but it's close.

I guess I'll end by asking you this: if the southeast is overcrowded, then why did 7 southeastern teams win 11/14* BCS national championships?

*It's 14 because one of USC's titles got DQ'd.

I have no idea if any of this is being considered, however when I see $8M deals for Tier 3 crap that Big 5 schools are getting... I think they are undervalued linking up with a conference tv deal for their "big name" games.

In any event, I suppose its wait and see what separation details come from the Big 5 on or before January.

I love how SNY didn't outbid MSG and YES for the ACC syndication package, but they're going to pay $25 million per year for Storrs Correctional.

(07-28-2013 07:51 PM)zibby Wrote:  I love how SNY didn't outbid MSG and YES for the ACC syndication package, but they're going to pay $25 million per year for Storrs Correctional.

UConn owns NYC.

(07-28-2013 07:36 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 06:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 05:17 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 04:18 PM)FromTheInside Wrote:  1) I'm clearly confusing WCC and WAC. Simple mistake. Clowns here act like its a war breaking out.
2) This board seems to not understand what this is all about. When the p5 split there are 4 legit complaints. Bosie, BYU, UConn and Cincy. Others are not on the same level. Sorry Temple, USF, UH, Memphis, SDSU and others. It's the truth. Those 4 have a winning case. So what they do is work their butts off to create a Indy model for the 4 of them. With ND not being a full ACC member the Indy possibilities are open. The p5 by any metric can't hold these 4 back. What these 4 basically are doing is forcing either ND to be pressured to join the ACC full and cause more realignment or Indys of a certain level can join if they fit metrics wise. For ND to join the ACC means they add a 16th team. It also means that the b12 will be forced to add for a ship game also because there is no way the ACC and NDwill be forced to change without the playoff being a conference. Ship teams bid type deal. Basically force another round.
3) Poker faces are strong right now. The B12 is very vulnerable. Media rights can be moved if both media partners are happy with movement. Texas does not want any new members. It's not that a Cincy or BYU is the final x in the league to them. It's the round robin of Texas getting to play who it wants as the league whole fit now. So many close and good tradition games. They would lose some. So if they are going to lose some by the B12 adding and splitting divisions then they might as well move to a new Conference and take who they want with them.
4) You guys want a wildcard? TCU and Baylor to the ACC with UConn and ND for 18.

Why? What would the ACC gain from going to 18? What would the ACC gain from adding either TCU or Baylor? Why do you think that UCONN would get the nod for #16? I doubt SU wants UCONN, BC definitely doesn't want UCONN, FSU and Clemson don't want UCONN, and I would be amazed if any of the NC schools want UCONN. That's 8/15 ACC schools who wouldn't be in favor of adding UCONN.
*What does UCONN bring that FSU wants/needs?
*What does UCONN bring that Clemson wants/needs?
*What does UCONN bring that Duke/NCSU/Wake/UNC wants/needs?
*BC already said that they don't want UCONN, so what has happened to change their minds? (Yes, I know the BC AD retired, Calhoun retired, and UCONN is now BC's Hockey East conference mate, but none of that is hugely influential, given the institutional animosity between the two organizations.)
*And what does UCONN bring that SU can't already get by playing UCONN OOC that would make it worth SU's while to overcrowd the northeast again?

It's hard to know if you're being serious or if you're just stirring the pot.

To what UConn adds that would benefit Syracuse, all you have to do is listen to your own basketball coach.

1. A conference mate who is within reasonable traveling distance
2. A traditional rival.

As for the Northeast being overcrowded, you definitely can't be serious. The Northeast is the least crowded of any region of the country. Consider the following:

1. Syracuse is the only P5 school in the state of NY. Florida has 3 in a state with the same population.
2. New England with a population of 14 million has 1 P5 team. Georgia with a population of 10 million has 2.
3. New Jersey with a population larger than Virginia has 1 P5 team. Virginia has 2.
4. Pennsylvania with a population of almost 13 million has 2 P5 teams. North Carolina with a population of less than 10 million has 4.

The Southeast is the region that's overcrowded, not the Northeast.

UCONN is a reasonable traveling distance, but BC and Pitt aren't? And since when did BC stop being a traditional rival? Furthermore, the ACC already has basketball. I highly doubt that SU is going to be hurting for quality teams on their schedule, given SU, Duke, UNC, and UL are all in the same conference. Anyway, if SU wants to play UCONN, there's no reason why we can't as is. It's not like UCONN is going to say "no." UCONN needs the game more than Syracuse does. Connecticut plays in a conference that is scattered over the country and is without any other elite teams. Don't get me wrong, teams like Memphis and Cincinnati are good, but they aren't elite.

Yes, SU is the only P5 school in NY, and Fla has 3 P5 schools, but Fla has 10+ times the talent. NE may have a population of 14 million to GA's 10 million, but GA produces 10+ times the talent as NE and only have 2X the P5 schools.

To put everything in perspective, VA currently has 4 Rivals 5*'s and 8 Rivals 4*'s. NJ is the least crowded state in the northeast, and NJ has 0 Rivals 5*'s and 9 Rivals 4*'s. And yes, NC is more overcrowded than PA, but NC is far and away the most overcrowded state in the southeast, and look where that's gotten them football-wise. Which one of Duke, UNC, NCSU, and WF has a long and stories football tradition? I'd pick UNC, and I doubt that I would rank UNC in the top 30 programs in the nation, over the length of their history. In fact, Duke and WF might be the two worst P5 schools over the course of their history. Admittedly, NW might give them a run, but it's close.

I guess I'll end by asking you this: if the southeast is overcrowded, then why did 7 southeastern teams win 11/14* BCS national championships?

*It's 14 because one of USC's titles got DQ'd.

With regard to traveling distance and traditional rivals, I made no comment about BC or Pitt. Of course both are traditional rivals and within reasonable travel distance. Boeheim's point when he made his comments is that Syracuse used to be in a conference where almost everyone fit that description. Now those are the only 2 left while the rest of the conference is in another region of the country. Boeheim wanted to see more of that. UConn would provide one more. And it's not just for football and basketball; it's for all sports.

I've never bought into the notion that the South has more football "talent." Want to explain to me why that is? Something in the water?

Good football talent simply comes down to good athletes. Why would people from the South or people from other regions of the country give birth to more good athletes? Makes no sense. You're talking to the wrong guy with that line.

The reason why the South is on a streak of NC's is that they've built better programs in places like Alabama, Auburn, Florida, and LSU in particular. But I'm not sure what that proves in terms of crowding. Don't you think that Ole Miss would have a better chance if they didn't have Mississippi St competing in the same small state? How about Kentucky and Louisville? Or South Carolina and Clemson? Or all the schools in North Carolina? Does Oklahoma State really have a shot in the same state as Oklahoma? Why bother? Can Virgnia really compete with VA tech?

When did the "Dude" start posting here

(07-28-2013 07:36 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 06:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 05:17 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 04:18 PM)FromTheInside Wrote:  1) I'm clearly confusing WCC and WAC. Simple mistake. Clowns here act like its a war breaking out.
2) This board seems to not understand what this is all about. When the p5 split there are 4 legit complaints. Bosie, BYU, UConn and Cincy. Others are not on the same level. Sorry Temple, USF, UH, Memphis, SDSU and others. It's the truth. Those 4 have a winning case. So what they do is work their butts off to create a Indy model for the 4 of them. With ND not being a full ACC member the Indy possibilities are open. The p5 by any metric can't hold these 4 back. What these 4 basically are doing is forcing either ND to be pressured to join the ACC full and cause more realignment or Indys of a certain level can join if they fit metrics wise. For ND to join the ACC means they add a 16th team. It also means that the b12 will be forced to add for a ship game also because there is no way the ACC and NDwill be forced to change without the playoff being a conference. Ship teams bid type deal. Basically force another round.
3) Poker faces are strong right now. The B12 is very vulnerable. Media rights can be moved if both media partners are happy with movement. Texas does not want any new members. It's not that a Cincy or BYU is the final x in the league to them. It's the round robin of Texas getting to play who it wants as the league whole fit now. So many close and good tradition games. They would lose some. So if they are going to lose some by the B12 adding and splitting divisions then they might as well move to a new Conference and take who they want with them.
4) You guys want a wildcard? TCU and Baylor to the ACC with UConn and ND for 18.

Why? What would the ACC gain from going to 18? What would the ACC gain from adding either TCU or Baylor? Why do you think that UCONN would get the nod for #16? I doubt SU wants UCONN, BC definitely doesn't want UCONN, FSU and Clemson don't want UCONN, and I would be amazed if any of the NC schools want UCONN. That's 8/15 ACC schools who wouldn't be in favor of adding UCONN.
*What does UCONN bring that FSU wants/needs?
*What does UCONN bring that Clemson wants/needs?
*What does UCONN bring that Duke/NCSU/Wake/UNC wants/needs?
*BC already said that they don't want UCONN, so what has happened to change their minds? (Yes, I know the BC AD retired, Calhoun retired, and UCONN is now BC's Hockey East conference mate, but none of that is hugely influential, given the institutional animosity between the two organizations.)
*And what does UCONN bring that SU can't already get by playing UCONN OOC that would make it worth SU's while to overcrowd the northeast again?

It's hard to know if you're being serious or if you're just stirring the pot.

To what UConn adds that would benefit Syracuse, all you have to do is listen to your own basketball coach.

1. A conference mate who is within reasonable traveling distance
2. A traditional rival.

As for the Northeast being overcrowded, you definitely can't be serious. The Northeast is the least crowded of any region of the country. Consider the following:

1. Syracuse is the only P5 school in the state of NY. Florida has 3 in a state with the same population.
2. New England with a population of 14 million has 1 P5 team. Georgia with a population of 10 million has 2.
3. New Jersey with a population larger than Virginia has 1 P5 team. Virginia has 2.
4. Pennsylvania with a population of almost 13 million has 2 P5 teams. North Carolina with a population of less than 10 million has 4.

The Southeast is the region that's overcrowded, not the Northeast.

UCONN is a reasonable traveling distance, but BC and Pitt aren't? And since when did BC stop being a traditional rival? Furthermore, the ACC already has basketball. I highly doubt that SU is going to be hurting for quality teams on their schedule, given SU, Duke, UNC, and UL are all in the same conference. Anyway, if SU wants to play UCONN, there's no reason why we can't as is. It's not like UCONN is going to say "no." UCONN needs the game more than Syracuse does. Connecticut plays in a conference that is scattered over the country and is without any other elite teams. Don't get me wrong, teams like Memphis and Cincinnati are good, but they aren't elite.

Yes, SU is the only P5 school in NY, and Fla has 3 P5 schools, but Fla has 10+ times the talent. NE may have a population of 14 million to GA's 10 million, but GA produces 10+ times the talent as NE and only have 2X the P5 schools.

To put everything in perspective, VA currently has 4 Rivals 5*'s and 8 Rivals 4*'s. NJ is the least crowded state in the northeast, and NJ has 0 Rivals 5*'s and 9 Rivals 4*'s. And yes, NC is more overcrowded than PA, but NC is far and away the most overcrowded state in the southeast, and look where that's gotten them football-wise. Which one of Duke, UNC, NCSU, and WF has a long and stories football tradition? I'd pick UNC, and I doubt that I would rank UNC in the top 30 programs in the nation, over the length of their history. In fact, Duke and WF might be the two worst P5 schools over the course of their history. Admittedly, NW might give them a run, but it's close.

I guess I'll end by asking you this: if the southeast is overcrowded, then why did 7 southeastern teams win 11/14* BCS national championships?

*It's 14 because one of USC's titles got DQ'd.

Actually Duke was a top 15 team for nearly 30 years between the early 30's and 1962. They had 16 league titles over 30 years - impressive. They played in 2 Rose Bowls, 2 Orange Bowls, 1 Sugar Bowl and 1 Cotton Bowl.

Duke is only 28 games under .500 despite having just a handfull of good years between 1962 and 2012. Duke remains more impressive than Washington State despite their heyday being 60 years ago.

Wake Forest - that's another story.

(07-28-2013 08:12 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  When did the "Dude" start posting here

what made him credible in the first place? how did people not notice the fact that a wvu fan was biased?

The "worst" programs over the last 110 years are Wake Forest, Indiana, Iowa State, and Washington State.

Wake .412 winning percentage - two league titles since joining SoCon/ACC in 1937 - most recent 2006
Indiana .424 winning percentage - two league titles since joining Western/Big10 in 1900 - most recent 1967
Iowa State .458 winning percentage - two league titles since joining Big6/8/12 in 1900 - most recent 1922
Washington State .488 winning percentage - three league titles since joining Western Conference/Pac5/6/8/10/12 in 1918 - most recent 2002

(07-28-2013 08:39 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The "worst" programs over the last 110 years are Wake Forest, Indiana, Iowa State, and Washington State.

Wake .412 winning percentage - two league titles since joining SoCon/ACC in 1937 - most recent 2006
Indiana .424 winning percentage - two league titles since joining Western/Big10 in 1900 - most recent 1967
Iowa State .458 winning percentage - two league titles since joining Big6/8/12 in 1900 - most recent 1922
Washington State .488 winning percentage - three league titles since joining Western Conference/Pac5/6/8/10/12 in 1918 - most recent 2002

where does NW, kansas, baylor, tcu, & texas tech rank among those teams?

(07-28-2013 08:34 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 08:12 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  When did the "Dude" start posting here

what made him credible in the first place? how did people not notice the fact that a wvu fan was biased?

To properly answer your question requires insulting a segment of the West Va fan base, but here goes. A big chunk of the WVa fan base hate the ACC and wants revenge for being blackballed in 1953, in 2003 and again in 2011. They don't want to accept certain issues that are built into their schools academic mission - that is WVa is not designed to be a research instensive university - it's designed to educate kids from West Va. Because of that hate/envy, etc., some will bite on anything that seems to show the ACC as weak. As a single university in a small state, none of their undergraduates or fans really understand how UNC/Duke/NC State/UVA/VT and WF interlock with each other or the complicated poltitical and family ties that keep the 5, now 6, bound to each other. The Dude took advantage of those biases and lack of knowledge. He then went on a disinformation campaign aimed at Florida State which had traction with that minority of FSU fans that still pine for the SEC.

When you get down to it, UVa and UNC have more money than God with the exception of Texas. They don't need money, therefore they can't be bought at any price - period. Since they bind Duke, NC State and VT to the ACC - the core of the ACC can't be split off like the the inherintly unstable Big East or the mess that is the remnent of the Southwest Conference.

Anyway, that's my analysis. Anyone that comes along talking about the ACC falling apart is in the mold of the Dude - a person taking advantage of what some casual fans don't understand.

(07-28-2013 08:40 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 08:39 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The "worst" programs over the last 110 years are Wake Forest, Indiana, Iowa State, and Washington State.

Wake .412 winning percentage - two league titles since joining SoCon/ACC in 1937 - most recent 2006
Indiana .424 winning percentage - two league titles since joining Western/Big10 in 1900 - most recent 1967
Iowa State .458 winning percentage - two league titles since joining Big6/8/12 in 1900 - most recent 1922
Washington State .488 winning percentage - three league titles since joining Western Conference/Pac5/6/8/10/12 in 1918 - most recent 2002

where does NW, kansas, baylor, tcu, & texas tech rank among those teams?

Northwestern: .4418%, 8 conference titles, 3 since 1995, most recent 2000
Kansas: .4971%, 4 Big Eight titles, most recent 1968
Baylor: .5022% 7 Southwest Conference titles, most recent 1994*
TCU: .5340%, 17 conference titles, 8 conference titles since 1994*, most recent 2011
Texas Tech: .5626%, 11 conference titles, most recent 1994*

*Baylor, TCU, and Texas Tech shared the 1994 conference title for the Southwest Conference with Rice and Texas.

(07-28-2013 08:40 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 08:39 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The "worst" programs over the last 110 years are Wake Forest, Indiana, Iowa State, and Washington State.

Wake .412 winning percentage - two league titles since joining SoCon/ACC in 1937 - most recent 2006
Indiana .424 winning percentage - two league titles since joining Western/Big10 in 1900 - most recent 1967
Iowa State .458 winning percentage - two league titles since joining Big6/8/12 in 1900 - most recent 1922
Washington State .488 winning percentage - three league titles since joining Western Conference/Pac5/6/8/10/12 in 1918 - most recent 2002

where does NW, kansas, baylor, tcu, & texas tech rank among those teams?

Beware of anyone who posts statistics on this board without linking to a real source.

Here's a source that claims to have all-time records for all teams:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/

According to that site, the lowest winning percentage among any team that's been playing at the top level at least 10 years belongs to Eastern Michigan (.313), then Buffalo (.345), then New Mexico State (.361).

Among current top-5 conference teams, the lowest all-time winning percentages are:

Wake Forest (.407)
Indiana (.414)
Kansas State (.432)

.

(07-28-2013 08:49 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 08:34 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 08:12 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  When did the "Dude" start posting here

what made him credible in the first place? how did people not notice the fact that a wvu fan was biased?

To properly answer your question requires insulting a segment of the West Va fan base, but here goes. A big chunk of the WVa fan base hate the ACC and wants revenge for being blackballed in 1953, in 2003 and again in 2011. They don't want to accept certain issues that are built into their schools academic mission - that is WVa is not designed to be a research instensive university - it's designed to educate kids from West Va. Because of that hate/envy, etc., some will bite on anything that seems to show the ACC as weak. As a single university in a small state, none of their undergraduates or fans really understand how UNC/Duke/NC State/UVA/VT and WF interlock with each other or the complicated poltitical and family ties that keep the 5, now 6, bound to each other. The Dude took advantage of those biases and lack of knowledge. He then went on a disinformation campaign aimed at Florida State which had traction with that minority of FSU fans that still pine for the SEC.

When you get down to it, UVa and UNC have more money than God with the exception of Texas. They don't need money, therefore they can't be bought at any price - period. Since they bind Duke, NC State and VT to the ACC - the core of the ACC can't be split off like the the inherintly unstable Big East or the mess that is the remnent of the Southwest Conference.

Anyway, that's my analysis. Anyone that comes along talking about the ACC falling apart is in the mold of the Dude - a person taking advantage of what some casual fans don't understand.

sounds about right. i hated that guy because i knew he was wrong and yet i would see people cite him as a credible source with insider knowledge. but im very curious as to where he came from. because he had a pretty big following and guys like that dont come from nowhere

(07-28-2013 08:08 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  With regard to traveling distance and traditional rivals, I made no comment about BC or Pitt. Of course both are traditional rivals and within reasonable travel distance. Boeheim's point when he made his comments is that Syracuse used to be in a conference where almost everyone fit that description. Now those are the only 2 left while the rest of the conference is in another region of the country. Boeheim wanted to see more of that. UConn would provide one more. And it's not just for football and basketball; it's for all sports.

I've never bought into the notion that the South has more football "talent." Want to explain to me why that is? Something in the water?

Good football talent simply comes down to good athletes. Why would people from the South or people from other regions of the country give birth to more good athletes? Makes no sense. You're talking to the wrong guy with that line.

The reason why the South is on a streak of NC's is that they've built better programs in places like Alabama, Auburn, Florida, and LSU in particular. But I'm not sure what that proves in terms of crowding. Don't you think that Ole Miss would have a better chance if they didn't have Mississippi St competing in the same small state? How about Kentucky and Louisville? Or South Carolina and Clemson? Or all the schools in North Carolina? Does Oklahoma State really have a shot in the same state as Oklahoma? Why bother? Can Virgnia really compete with VA tech?

"Syracuse used to be in a conference where almost everyone fit that description"
-Is it not true that Miami, VT, and ND in the old BIG EAST and that UL was in the most recent BIG EAST? Why are the suddenly farther away now? Did they move and not tell me? Anyway, wasn't our far and away biggest rival located in DC? Is that tangibly farther than VTech and UVA?

"Now those are the only 2 left while the rest of the conference is in another region of the country"
-How many rivals did we have in the northeast to begin with? When's the last time anyone from Syracuse called Rutgers, Seton Hall, or Providence a "rival?" How about Saint John's? I don't think that they have been a serious rival for about 20 years, maybe longer. That leaves Villanova, UCONN, and Georgetown, but we can easily schedule 1-2 of them OOC and the addition of BC makes things about even to where they were last year.

"I've never bought into the notion that the South has more football "talent." Want to explain to me why that is? Something in the water?"
-Only in Alabama. It's a combo of weather and culture everywhere else.

"Why would people from the South or people from other regions of the country give birth to more good athletes? Makes no sense. You're talking to the wrong guy with that line."
-Well, as mentioned earlier, weather and culture are two big issues. Watch the 30 for 30 about Miami. They do a pretty decent job of explaining it.

"Don't you think that Ole Miss would have..."
-I'm not sure where you are going by asking a bunch of rhetorical questions, but I'll say this: schools in areas with high amounts of talent and low competition for that talent will recruit better than schools in areas without talent or high talent but very high competition. The amount of talent that comes out of much of the south can sustain multiple BCS programs at a very high level, and still export talent. This phenomenon is evidence by the south's dominance of the BCS system. You seem to assume that 2 BCS programs in South Carolina is roughly equal to having 2 BCS programs in New England. It isn't. The second pick players out of SC will beat the 1st pick players out of New England far more often than not. That means that SC can better sustain two programs than NE. In other words, just because Clemson and South Carolina are good doesn't mean that BC and UCONN can both be good.

Adding to "the dude" and WVU fans convo- the acc passed on WVU. Then they found themselves in a bind and took Louisville. They make WVU look like Michigan. The ACC fu ck Ed up.

Think about the Big East since post 03 raid. UConn basketball has ran that conference. Of late Louisville basketball came on strong. In football WVU ran the conference and Cincinatti came on strong. Louisville also was quality. UConn became average program wise which in 10 years of fbs is more than respectable. Schools like Cuse and Pitt have lost sweet 16 after sweet 16 and they have stunk for a majority of time on the football field. The rift with the ACC is they several times passed over the schools putting and effort and doing good things for the old boys club. Rutgers finally after 100 years of nothing showed life but never did anything special. What did they win? They are a tv market and that's all they will ever be. USF never fully got it up. They belong with UCF longterm. But at least they were somewhat relevant most years in football.

When you think about it, the ACC could have been this.
FSU, Clem, UNC, NCst, UVA, MD, UConn, WVU, Lville, Cincy
Miami, Wake, Duke, Pitt, Temple, Cuse, BC, GT, VT, ND

That's the best basketball conference. Hands down. It says screw MSG and plays its tourney in giants stadium for heavens sake. There is no delusion in that. Rutgers goes to the b10 and chases money and becomes the dead horses we all know it is. Or they never have a partner for a invite and rot in the MAC. Whatever trade them for Temple if you want. Anyway. PSU never leaves. This really could have happened. MD doesn't leave this. A ACC network with this power conference rakes in the dough. Football is just fine. It has a good BCS record now in the last 10 years vs what the ACC currently shows as a BCS record. It makes sense.

Be honest, The ACC has 2 schools in Pitt and Cuse who have been blah and crapy n the football field since the 03 raid. Those same to schools are famous year after year for flaming out of the ncaaT. Besides a one and done stud who never should have gone to college in Carmelo Anthony, Cuse and its all talk just walk Zone has won nothing. UConn and Louisville in this stretch of time both passed Cuse and are now the 7th and 8th best programs all time behind the blue bloods. WVU picked up the leagues slack on the football field making statements in BCS games. It's obvious where the rift is and why.

I'm not starting things with Louisville. They have come a long way. But you have to understand they look like a community college when you compare them to big state Us. When time after time all we heard from the ACC was academics and now Louisville is in the ACC, that's going to cause a lot of issues. Sports wise they are great but when you leave UConn and WVU out and add Cuse and Pitt and then Louisville it becomes obvious that the conference had no clue what it was doing and then needed to save its own butt by going against its values and when that happens its laughable.

cuse football has won 2 bowls in 3 years, has knocked off the top big east team 4 straight years. their FB history is very strong (15 all time wins, 6th most NFL hall of famers with a few more to be added within the next few years)

cuse bb is stronger than ever, they are one of the top producers of NBA lottery picks in the last 5 years. a FF this year, & an elite 8 last year and is 2nd in attendance over the last couple of years. oh and this program is top 5 all time wins.....

your syracuse hate is pretty funny