(07-28-2013 07:43 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 07:23 PM)ULdave Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 07:18 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You are wrong. What the BE did to Pitt, SU, WVU, Rutgers and even UL and TCU was abandoned those schools due to the petty differences between the various power brokers trying to build up their fiefdoms. The BE was NOT a homogeneous group, and the moment the conference tried to stuff Villanova football down our throats - it was the end of the conference. It was the diverging viewpoints that Pitt, SU, etc no longer wanted to deal with. Therefore, they did the right things and left the BE so that those who wanted to go in a different direction where able to pursue it. That was the ethical thing to do in that case. You part ways and go your separate ways if the disagreements were too great to overcome.

What's funny is that now that the remaining schools got what they wanted and got the power and influence they sought - they realize that they didn't actually want what they thought they did. So they cry about it and get bitter because the departing schools gave the remaining schools exactly what they wanted...

You could give that argument if Pitt and Syr had expressed their intentions to leave based on those factors. They did not, they slipped out unexpectedly while asking the other schools to stay together,

Pitt made its intentions known to the conference around the time that most schools wanted to elevate Nova FB to FBS. That's when everyone was notified. Also, it's rather disingenuous to state that everyone was all in on the BE in 2011. The moment the B1G and SEC elected to expand, everyone in the BE conference was looking to leave. So stating that Pitt and SU were slinking off in the night is a misleading statement. You make it known to your conference mates that you'll look if an opportunity presents itself in the future - which Pitt and I believe everyone else did as well - and then once anything tangible starts up you go into silence. That's SOP for when you begin these types of negotiations since confidentiality is the norm. Stating otherwise is being naive and stupid about it.

The situation we find today is very different than the times when Pitt, SU, WVU and TCU left. Now, anyone trying to get out would be intentionally sowing a lot of instability for no good reason, since no conference is looking to expand now. In the past, everyone was reevaluating their situations and weighing options. Now it would be little better than a school forcing itself onto another conference. It's not right or ethical - especially when you consider that the AAC is not trying to force distasteful options down the throats of its members - unlike what the BE was trying to do back in 2010 and 2011.

Baloney. Nothing was forced down anyone's throats. Repeating that lie doesn't make it true.

Claiming that Pitt informed everyone they were looking is laughable in light of the fact that Nordenberg recommended that the conference turn down a $1.2 billion TV deal, which might have saved the conference, only 2 weeks before they left.

Had Pitt truly been forthright about looking, Nordenberg would have recused himself from making any recommendation.

(07-28-2013 07:43 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 07:23 PM)ULdave Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 07:18 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You are wrong. What the BE did to Pitt, SU, WVU, Rutgers and even UL and TCU was abandoned those schools due to the petty differences between the various power brokers trying to build up their fiefdoms. The BE was NOT a homogeneous group, and the moment the conference tried to stuff Villanova football down our throats - it was the end of the conference. It was the diverging viewpoints that Pitt, SU, etc no longer wanted to deal with. Therefore, they did the right things and left the BE so that those who wanted to go in a different direction where able to pursue it. That was the ethical thing to do in that case. You part ways and go your separate ways if the disagreements were too great to overcome.

What's funny is that now that the remaining schools got what they wanted and got the power and influence they sought - they realize that they didn't actually want what they thought they did. So they cry about it and get bitter because the departing schools gave the remaining schools exactly what they wanted...

You could give that argument if Pitt and Syr had expressed their intentions to leave based on those factors. They did not, they slipped out unexpectedly while asking the other schools to stay together,

Pitt made its intentions known to the conference around the time that most schools wanted to elevate Nova FB to FBS. That's when everyone was notified. Also, it's rather disingenuous to state that everyone was all in on the BE in 2011. The moment the B1G and SEC elected to expand, everyone in the BE conference was looking to leave. So stating that Pitt and SU were slinking off in the night is a misleading statement. You make it known to your conference mates that you'll look if an opportunity presents itself in the future - which Pitt and I believe everyone else did as well - and then once anything tangible starts up you go into silence. That's SOP for when you begin these types of negotiations since confidentiality is the norm. Stating otherwise is being naive and stupid about it.

The situation we find today is very different than the times when Pitt, SU, WVU and TCU left. Now, anyone trying to get out would be intentionally sowing a lot of instability for no good reason, since no conference is looking to expand now. In the past, everyone was reevaluating their situations and weighing options. Now it would be little better than a school forcing itself onto another conference. It's not right or ethical - especially when you consider that the AAC is not trying to force distasteful options down the throats of its members - unlike what the BE was trying to do back in 2010 and 2011.

That is false. Everyone was shocked when Pitt left no one saw it coming. No one said everyone was all in on the Big East, I just said that Pitt was the school rallying everyone to stay together (meanwhile...)

The situation of the current AAC is only different from the Big East in that they are now essentially non AQ. There is FAR more reason to try to leave the AAC than their was to leave the Big East.

You should stop using the term ethical. It is far to slippery of a word to mean anything in this context.

(07-28-2013 07:53 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 07:43 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 07:23 PM)ULdave Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 07:18 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You are wrong. What the BE did to Pitt, SU, WVU, Rutgers and even UL and TCU was abandoned those schools due to the petty differences between the various power brokers trying to build up their fiefdoms. The BE was NOT a homogeneous group, and the moment the conference tried to stuff Villanova football down our throats - it was the end of the conference. It was the diverging viewpoints that Pitt, SU, etc no longer wanted to deal with. Therefore, they did the right things and left the BE so that those who wanted to go in a different direction where able to pursue it. That was the ethical thing to do in that case. You part ways and go your separate ways if the disagreements were too great to overcome.

What's funny is that now that the remaining schools got what they wanted and got the power and influence they sought - they realize that they didn't actually want what they thought they did. So they cry about it and get bitter because the departing schools gave the remaining schools exactly what they wanted...

You could give that argument if Pitt and Syr had expressed their intentions to leave based on those factors. They did not, they slipped out unexpectedly while asking the other schools to stay together,

Pitt made its intentions known to the conference around the time that most schools wanted to elevate Nova FB to FBS. That's when everyone was notified. Also, it's rather disingenuous to state that everyone was all in on the BE in 2011. The moment the B1G and SEC elected to expand, everyone in the BE conference was looking to leave. So stating that Pitt and SU were slinking off in the night is a misleading statement. You make it known to your conference mates that you'll look if an opportunity presents itself in the future - which Pitt and I believe everyone else did as well - and then once anything tangible starts up you go into silence. That's SOP for when you begin these types of negotiations since confidentiality is the norm. Stating otherwise is being naive and stupid about it.

The situation we find today is very different than the times when Pitt, SU, WVU and TCU left. Now, anyone trying to get out would be intentionally sowing a lot of instability for no good reason, since no conference is looking to expand now. In the past, everyone was reevaluating their situations and weighing options. Now it would be little better than a school forcing itself onto another conference. It's not right or ethical - especially when you consider that the AAC is not trying to force distasteful options down the throats of its members - unlike what the BE was trying to do back in 2010 and 2011.

Baloney. Nothing was forced down anyone's throats. Repeating that lie doesn't make it true.

Claiming that Pitt informed everyone they were looking is laughable in light of the fact that Nordenberg recommended that the conference turn down a $1.2 billion TV deal, which might have saved the conference, only 2 weeks before they left.

Had Pitt truly been forthright about looking, Nordenberg would have recused himself from making any recommendation.

The majority of the BE did not want that deal when the new PAC numbers came out. The membership rightly rejected the deal in order to negotiate for a higher rate. What's laughable is that the so called deal would not have prevented anything from going down exactly the way it did. It's simply stupid to pin your hopes on the "deal" being the savior of the BE it never would have been and you know that.

If Pitt and Nordenberg was so deceitful and underhanded like you claim, then the remaining BE membership would have sued Pitt and named Nordenberg personally in a lawsuit. Obviously, nothing happened. You know merely a fraction of what actually went on when everything went down. So if the people in the know didn't file suit against Pitt, including members of your school who knew everything that went on within the conference, then how could you possibly repeat the same tired story that people like to throw out there on the internet? It's a garbage claim, and the fact that the BE did NOTHING about the alleged crimes Pitt committed should be proof enough that it simply did not go down the way you try to rationalize it.

I agree UConn is now ready as well as Cincinnati, UCF, USF, Memphis and Houston as well as Boise should all be brought into the power 5. The Big 12 and Pac 12 are sitting on their buts and should go to 14 like the rest of the power 5. Maybe the Jan meetings can put the heat on them to even the field to 14. ND and BYU could be game changers to line up. 16 would open up even more opportunity for more schools.

(07-28-2013 07:55 PM)ULdave Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 07:43 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 07:23 PM)ULdave Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 07:18 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You are wrong. What the BE did to Pitt, SU, WVU, Rutgers and even UL and TCU was abandoned those schools due to the petty differences between the various power brokers trying to build up their fiefdoms. The BE was NOT a homogeneous group, and the moment the conference tried to stuff Villanova football down our throats - it was the end of the conference. It was the diverging viewpoints that Pitt, SU, etc no longer wanted to deal with. Therefore, they did the right things and left the BE so that those who wanted to go in a different direction where able to pursue it. That was the ethical thing to do in that case. You part ways and go your separate ways if the disagreements were too great to overcome.

What's funny is that now that the remaining schools got what they wanted and got the power and influence they sought - they realize that they didn't actually want what they thought they did. So they cry about it and get bitter because the departing schools gave the remaining schools exactly what they wanted...

You could give that argument if Pitt and Syr had expressed their intentions to leave based on those factors. They did not, they slipped out unexpectedly while asking the other schools to stay together,

Pitt made its intentions known to the conference around the time that most schools wanted to elevate Nova FB to FBS. That's when everyone was notified. Also, it's rather disingenuous to state that everyone was all in on the BE in 2011. The moment the B1G and SEC elected to expand, everyone in the BE conference was looking to leave. So stating that Pitt and SU were slinking off in the night is a misleading statement. You make it known to your conference mates that you'll look if an opportunity presents itself in the future - which Pitt and I believe everyone else did as well - and then once anything tangible starts up you go into silence. That's SOP for when you begin these types of negotiations since confidentiality is the norm. Stating otherwise is being naive and stupid about it.

The situation we find today is very different than the times when Pitt, SU, WVU and TCU left. Now, anyone trying to get out would be intentionally sowing a lot of instability for no good reason, since no conference is looking to expand now. In the past, everyone was reevaluating their situations and weighing options. Now it would be little better than a school forcing itself onto another conference. It's not right or ethical - especially when you consider that the AAC is not trying to force distasteful options down the throats of its members - unlike what the BE was trying to do back in 2010 and 2011.

That is false. Everyone was shocked when Pitt left no one saw it coming. No one said everyone was all in on the Big East, I just said that Pitt was the school rallying everyone to stay together (meanwhile...)

The situation of the current AAC is only different from the Big East in that they are now essentially non AQ. There is FAR more reason to try to leave the AAC than their was to leave the Big East.

You should stop using the term ethical. It is far to slippery of a word to mean anything in this context.

You are partially correct. They were shocked over the fact that Pitt and SU were leaving at that moment in time. They were not shocked over the idea that it happened. Everyone was looking out for their own best interest then. As we later heard after the fact, most of the BE schools secretly contacted the ACC "behind their conference mates backs". Was it really that shocking and secretive that this was going on? Or was it more realistically that everyone knew that the FB member schools were looking for the exits and that Pitt and SU are scorned the most simply because they found the exits first while the rest did not?

Like I stated before, the BE conference left Pitt, SU and WVU for sure. There were divisive factions within the conference that did not allow the FB side to grow. Pitt wanted the FB side to grow, the best the conference membership could come up with was Villanova, Pitt, WVU and Rutgers nixed that idea completely (thank goodness), and the writing was clearly on the wall after that. It showed beyond a shadow of a doubt that the BE was not going to allow FB to grow. One invite to TCU was supposed to be it, and that was it. That was not enough. We all know this, we all talked about this and we all knew that our respective schools were reacting to the mess brought about from the Nova discussions.

(07-28-2013 08:10 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You are partially correct. They were shocked over the fact that Pitt and SU were leaving at that moment in time. They were not shocked over the idea that it happened. Everyone was looking out for their own best interest then. As we later heard after the fact, most of the BE schools secretly contacted the ACC "behind their conference mates backs". Was it really that shocking and secretive that this was going on? Or was it more realistically that everyone knew that the FB member schools were looking for the exits and that Pitt and SU are scorned the most simply because they found the exits first while the rest did not?

Like I stated before, the BE conference left Pitt, SU and WVU for sure. There were divisive factions within the conference that did not allow the FB side to grow. Pitt wanted the FB side to grow, the best the conference membership could come up with was Villanova, Pitt, WVU and Rutgers nixed that idea completely (thank goodness), and the writing was clearly on the wall after that. It . One invite to TCU was supposed to be it, and that was it. That was not enough. We all know this, we all talked about this and we all knew that our respective schools were reacting to the mess brought about from the Nova discussions.

Pitt and Syr are scorned not simply because they acted in there self interest but that did so in a manner that was detrimental to all the others. The ideas of partnership, contract, and conference can not exist if there isn't some willingness to forgo individual gain for the betterment of the group. Simply because Pitt acted doesn't allow you suggest that all others would have equally disregarded their conference mates.

You present the Pitt opinion of the Big East football situation as though it were a fact. Simply because there was disagreement (specifically on a matter in which the Pitt argument won) within the conference doesn't "(show) beyond a shadow of a doubt that the BE was not going to allow FB to grow".