(07-29-2013 02:06 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Any of Minn St-Mankato, St Cloud St, Minn-Duluth or North Dakota could be added as full members. Four full members are needed, then at least two hockey affiliates would be needed.

That's for qualifying for AQ for championships (after a two year waiting period unless six of the schools have been played together in any conference competition) ... to count as one of the three men team sports for a non-FB Div1 multi-sport conference, it reads like it has to be six full members of the multi-sport conference.

(07-29-2013 06:50 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-29-2013 02:06 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Any of Minn St-Mankato, St Cloud St, Minn-Duluth or North Dakota could be added as full members. Four full members are needed, then at least two hockey affiliates would be needed.

That's for qualifying for AQ for championships (after a two year waiting period unless six of the schools have been played together in any conference competition) ... to count as one of the three men team sports for a non-FB Div1 multi-sport conference, it reads like it has to be six full members of the multi-sport conference.

I agree with you the verbage isn't clear. But I asked Hurd that exact question and he told me the WAC could use affiliates to get to 6 in soccer, they didn't have to be full members.

(07-27-2013 07:45 PM)goofus Wrote:  This push to add hockey seems like a bad investment to me. There are too many sports fans like me who don't like hockey. Oh well, nobody is forcing me to watch it, at least in my own home. Its just another reason to cancel cable TV, I guess.

You have to sponsor a minimum of 14 sports to be a Division I member of the NCAA, and a minimum of 16 sports if you are a FBS member. College hockey isn't exactly a cash cow, but for a northern university it's your next best chance at breaking even after football and men's basketball. There aren't 12 more worthwhile sports to sponsor IMO, particularly if you already have the facilities or need to build a new arena anyway. (You might as well design it to be dual purpose, even if you don't install the ice-making equipment.)

a hockey arena is also one of the few facilities that can be used year round by different groups and organizations. (not just for hockey)

The third team sport may use two affiliates towards the six member requirement. The WAC has six in baseball (NMSU, Chicago State, Seattle, Bakersfield, UTPA, Utah Valley) that count. In men's soccer, the WAC will have three full members in 2013 (Seattle, Bakersfield, Kansas City), one transitional school (Grand Canyon) plus four affiliates (San Jose State, UNLV, Houston Baptist, Air Force) - this will exhaust the first year of the grace period. UTPA, UVU, and Chicago State will start play in 2014 which puts the WAC back into compliance without needing to use affiliates.

If the WAC wants hockey, it will probably have to go through the NCHC. Getting Denver back will be the toughest part given their remarks on the way out the door. The Mountain West or American would need to make Air Force a football-only member. North Dakota would need a home for its FCS football program. Omaha would probably just need assurance it has a home for hockey.

Once you have those four, Colorado College, St. Cloud State, and Minnesota-Duluth probably fall in line and effectively kill the NCHC. The only question is who is number eight (if not nine and ten).

The conference that could start sponsoring hockey next year is the Ivy League, which has six of the 12 members of the ECAC Hockey League.

Conferences that are actually closer than the WAC to pulling it off are America East (UMass-Lowell, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine) and the Patriot League (Boston University, Army, Colgate, Holy Cross).

If EIU is moving up soon, the best geographic fit is the NCHC, but Hockey East or Atlantic Hockey may be the only ones willing to look at a new program.

(07-29-2013 06:50 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-29-2013 02:06 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Any of Minn St-Mankato, St Cloud St, Minn-Duluth or North Dakota could be added as full members. Four full members are needed, then at least two hockey affiliates would be needed.

That's for qualifying for AQ for championships (after a two year waiting period unless six of the schools have been played together in any conference competition) ... to count as one of the three men team sports for a non-FB Div1 multi-sport conference, it reads like it has to be six full members of the multi-sport conference.

The Summit already uses affiliate members for its second men's sport: soccer. E Illinois and Oral Roberts are affiliates that allow the Summit six teams in that sport (Omaha will be the seventh when it becomes fully DI next summer).

(07-29-2013 09:59 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  If the WAC wants hockey, it will probably have to go through the NCHC. Getting Denver back will be the toughest part given their remarks on the way out the door. The Mountain West or American would need to make Air Force a football-only member. North Dakota would need a home for its FCS football program. Omaha would probably just need assurance it has a home for hockey.

Once you have those four, Colorado College, St. Cloud State, and Minnesota-Duluth probably fall in line and effectively kill the NCHC. The only question is who is number eight (if not nine and ten).

The conference that could start sponsoring hockey next year is the Ivy League, which has six of the 12 members of the ECAC Hockey League.

Conferences that are actually closer than the WAC to pulling it off are America East (UMass-Lowell, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine) and the Patriot League (Boston University, Army, Colgate, Holy Cross).

If EIU is moving up soon, the best geographic fit is the NCHC, but Hockey East or Atlantic Hockey may be the only ones willing to look at a new program.

The hockey conference demarcation lines are often more historical and local support-based than for conference basketball/football alignments.

America East hockey schools aren't going to pull themselves out of Hockey East, with BC, BU, and now Notre Dame and UConn. The Patriot League hockey conference would be the are equivalent to a group of FBS, FCS, and non-scholly football schools banding together: not happening.

Miami (O) and W Mich didn't want to stay with the remains of the CCHA, because most of those schools lack hockey budgets, facilities, and are mainly DII schools that were powers in a bygone era. Miami (O) especially had developed into a national power and didn't want to lose that momentum.

If a new league forms, think it would come from a split from Atlantic Hockey (Robert Morris, Mercyhurst, Canisius, Niagara) joining with Bowling Green, Ferris St and maybe UAH. (There was talk of this a couple of years ago when Buffalo was evaluating DI hockey, but their AD moved on to UConn where he upgraded that program to a higher level). Miami and W Mich could join that too if the NCHC moves in a direction not to their liking. Atlantic Hockey could respond by adding St Anselms (DII in NH), plus URI, and maybe Navy and Liberty.

The good thing about the change in conference structures is that hockey can actually grow again. When the WCHA, CCHA, ECAC, Atlantic Hockey, and Hockey East were essentially full, there wasn't any conference openings for schools wanting DI hockey.

(07-29-2013 10:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Miami (O) and W Mich didn't want to stay with the remains of the CCHA, because most of those schools lack hockey budgets, facilities, and are mainly DII schools that were powers in a bygone era. Miami (O) especially had developed into a national power and didn't want to lose that momentum.

And indeed MiamiU was a founding member of the NCHC, with WMU invited to join. MiamiU might have also wanted MAC conference mate Bowling Green, but I think that St. Cloud made more sense for the conference.

Quote: If a new league forms, think it would come from a split from Atlantic Hockey (Robert Morris, Mercyhurst, Canisius, Niagara) joining with Bowling Green, Ferris St and maybe UAH. (There was talk of this a couple of years ago when Buffalo was evaluating DI hockey, but their AD moved on to UConn where he upgraded that program to a higher level).

That sounds at least plausible ... Bowling Green is not in the WCHA because that outcome was their first preference, but because it was the only table in the dining room with an open seat.

Quote: Miami and W Mich could join that too if the NCHC moves in a direction not to their liking.

Though a note that there is no indication at present that the NCHC is going to move in a direction that is not to the liking of the two MAC members.

(07-30-2013 03:06 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-29-2013 10:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Miami and W Mich could join that too if the NCHC moves in a direction not to their liking.

Though a note that there is no indication at present that the NCHC is going to move in a direction that is not to the liking of the two MAC members.

It should stay that way for a while, newly hired commissioner Josh Fenton was Miami's Senior Associate AD for Finance and Administration. It's not like he's going to cater to Miami and WMU's every need by ruling with an iron fist, but his past ties in Oxford probably influence his opinions somewhat.

(07-29-2013 09:30 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  a hockey arena is also one of the few facilities that can be used year round by different groups and organizations. (not just for hockey)

Couldn't agree more. Goggin's practice rink is also used to host our synchronized skating team, intramural hockey and broomball, skating classes, and recreational skating for students and the community. The ice in the main arena can be removed for special events (Michelle Obama was offered the arena when she was there last fall, though the campaign chose another location instead), the club lounge hosts private parties, and I believe the pro shop stays open year round as well. That's a lot when you consider that it hosts hockey from October through March every year.

(07-29-2013 09:08 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  You have to sponsor a minimum of 14 sports to be a Division I member of the NCAA, and a minimum of 16 sports if you are a FBS member.

But (1) those are rules applying to schools, not conferences and (2) the sports number is not as binding as the team sports number, since you can rack up a number of distinct individual sports with relatively few scholarships. Heck, Mens and Women's cross country, indoor track and outdoor track is six sports right there.

For the non-FB conferences, some of their members may play FCS football in a FB-only conference, so those <i>members</i> are only required to have men's BBall and FB as men's team sports ... and if there is conference realignment, it can easily happen that your six schools in one of your sports get broken up while the replacement schools don't play the same mix of sports.

The reason that its a non-FB conference issue is that for FB-conferences, the requirement is BBall and FB ~ FB basically counting as two men's team sports because of the massive number of scholarships ~ and FB conferences tend to have ample women's team sports for Title IX reasons to offset all of the men's FB scholarships, so its not something that is really a concern for a Div1 FB conference, either FBS or FCS.

(07-30-2013 04:44 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(07-30-2013 03:06 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-29-2013 10:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Miami and W Mich could join that too if the NCHC moves in a direction not to their liking.

Though a note that there is no indication at present that the NCHC is going to move in a direction that is not to the liking of the two MAC members.

It should stay that way for a while, newly hired commissioner Josh Fenton was Miami's Senior Associate AD for Finance and Administration. It's not like he's going to cater to Miami and WMU's every need by ruling with an iron fist, but his past ties in Oxford probably influence his opinions somewhat.

TV coverage with CBS Sports Network has already been a divisive issue: UND will actually get less coverage than they had with Fox College Sports Central, while Denver gets more as they get to keep Fox Rocky Mountain coverage. Think any western expansion (i.e. a Seattle paper was pushing for UW hockey rather than waiting for the NHL) will be difficult, while a school like Iowa State would fly through. UND and Denver will be pushing for teams in the Mountain and Pacific time zone, while doubt Miami and W Mich would be so open.

The thing about Denver is that it's still 1,000 miles or more to many locations in the Pacific Time Zone. Denver to San Francisco is about the same distance as Denver to Huntsville. The only existing program not in the NCHC that is anywhere near Denver or Colorado College is Air Force.