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So why is this happening? Specifically, why is it happening NOW?
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Post: #41
RE: So why is this happening? Specifically, why is it happening NOW?
(07-26-2013 06:54 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  To the question of why. The answer may be:
1 Realignment has screwed up voting balance.
2 Once passions cleared Penn St felt like an overreach.
3 USC and Miami investigations showed enforcement out of control while the fast Auburn clearance felt like a fix with troubling clearance of Cam compared to the Ohio St mess.
4 Last summit produced a quick flurry of proposals that have proved contentious AFTER passing (see recruiting deregulation)
5 But CFP with only FBS voting has been smooth in comparison.

#2 Are you really hearing that administrators feel that way? Noone is saying that in public. Someone made the comment people in general were feeling more that way, but I don't think there has been any softening in people's opinions.
07-26-2013 07:36 AM
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Post: #42
RE: So why is this happening? Specifically, why is it happening NOW?
(07-26-2013 07:02 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 06:54 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  To the question of why. The answer may be:
......
5 But CFP with only FBS voting has been smooth in comparison.

That also could be a big factor. From our ants-eye view, the CFP negotiations were opaque and confusing, but maybe not to the players inside. And with only 10 seats at the table, or 120-130 seats at the tables, I could see things moving a lot more smoothly than the general NCAA process moves.

So maybe the outcome in January is headcount voting gets replaced with voting-by-conference, with conferences having weighted votes? And an even more streamlined Board of Directors?

That already happens. Its just that there is a one man one vote override.
07-26-2013 07:38 AM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #43
RE: So why is this happening? Specifically, why is it happening NOW?
(07-26-2013 06:45 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Orange UConn impacting Syracuse doesn't help your argument. Your league made them a peer not a non AQ. Totally different matter.

Florida had zero SEC titles and 10 rankings until former low level Division I programs Miami and Florida St became strong.

Maybe the blame at Syracuse was poor coaching hires and poor athletic leadership.
No, you're wrong. UCONN is in "The American." That isn't a power conference. Sure UCONN moved up to the BIG EAST, which was a power conference, but for all practical purposes, UCONN's status as a member of a power conference is irrelevant for this recruiting class. The same goes for Temple and Rutgers' recruiting class last year (before the B1G invite). [EDIT: It's also worth noting that the basic idea of elevating a program to D-IA creates a fan following that otherwise wouldn't exist. Compare the number of UCONN fans that primarily followed/supported other teams in the 90's to present day. And no, that isn't just a power conference phenomenon. I would be willing to bet that the average UCF student who is interested in collegiate athletics primarily follows UCF. That isn't true at D-IAA schools, like Florida A&M.]

Florida (the state) also saw an explosion of talent and is only now starting to balance things out with the elevation of U_F and F_U. If you mean to imply that UF doesn't regularly lose recruiting battles to FSU and Miami and/or if you think that recruiting doesn't matter, then you're nuts.
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2013 09:16 AM by nzmorange.)
07-26-2013 08:33 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #44
RE: So why is this happening? Specifically, why is it happening NOW?
(07-26-2013 07:38 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 07:02 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 06:54 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  To the question of why. The answer may be:
......
5 But CFP with only FBS voting has been smooth in comparison.

That also could be a big factor. From our ants-eye view, the CFP negotiations were opaque and confusing, but maybe not to the players inside. And with only 10 seats at the table, or 120-130 seats at the tables, I could see things moving a lot more smoothly than the general NCAA process moves.

So maybe the outcome in January is headcount voting gets replaced with voting-by-conference, with conferences having weighted votes? And an even more streamlined Board of Directors?

That already happens. Its just that there is a one man one vote override.

Yes. Something Will Be Done about the majority's ability to override.
07-26-2013 01:15 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #45
RE: So why is this happening? Specifically, why is it happening NOW?
(07-26-2013 08:33 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 06:45 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Orange UConn impacting Syracuse doesn't help your argument. Your league made them a peer not a non AQ. Totally different matter.

Florida had zero SEC titles and 10 rankings until former low level Division I programs Miami and Florida St became strong.

Maybe the blame at Syracuse was poor coaching hires and poor athletic leadership.
No, you're wrong. UCONN is in "The American." That isn't a power conference. Sure UCONN moved up to the BIG EAST, which was a power conference, but for all practical purposes, UCONN's status as a member of a power conference is irrelevant for this recruiting class. The same goes for Temple and Rutgers' recruiting class last year (before the B1G invite). [EDIT: It's also worth noting that the basic idea of elevating a program to D-IA creates a fan following that otherwise wouldn't exist. Compare the number of UCONN fans that primarily followed/supported other teams in the 90's to present day. And no, that isn't just a power conference phenomenon. I would be willing to bet that the average UCF student who is interested in collegiate athletics primarily follows UCF. That isn't true at D-IAA schools, like Florida A&M.]

UConn is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad example. When UConn when FBS, they were already the dominant local sports brand in Connecticut, competing only with out-of-state pro teams, in an area with essentially no college football interest. AND they went straight from FCS to BCS. Now they're in the AAC, but they're a former-AQ program averaging attendance comparable to BC or Syracuse or Rutgers.

As far as a 17 year old recruit is concerned, UConn is just as much a big-boy program as Syracuse or Rutgers or BC. Now in 5 years that might not be true (probably won't be true).

Temple got their golden ticket in 2011. If you're losing recruits to Temple, that's a Syracuse problem, not a "too many teams in FBS" problem.

That has almost nothing in common with what happens when Charlotte or Texas State or FIU or Troy or even UMass joins FBS.
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2013 01:33 PM by johnbragg.)
07-26-2013 01:20 PM
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #46
RE: So why is this happening? Specifically, why is it happening NOW?
(07-26-2013 08:33 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  I would be willing to bet that the average UCF student who is interested in collegiate athletics primarily follows UCF. That isn't true at D-IAA schools, like Florida A&M.]

nz, I only wish that were true. It's slowly changing, but the majority of college sports fans that come to UCF are not primarily UCF fans. It's sad and I hate to admit it, but it's true. There are more now then when I went to school there, but the outside influence of UF, FSU, and Miami (UCF does draw a lot of students from South Florida) is pretty strong.
07-26-2013 01:32 PM
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Post: #47
RE: So why is this happening? Specifically, why is it happening NOW?
(07-26-2013 01:32 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 08:33 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  I would be willing to bet that the average UCF student who is interested in collegiate athletics primarily follows UCF. That isn't true at D-IAA schools, like Florida A&M.]

nz, I only wish that were true. It's slowly changing, but the majority of college sports fans that come to UCF are not primarily UCF fans. It's sad and I hate to admit it, but it's true. There are more now then when I went to school there, but the outside influence of UF, FSU, and Miami (UCF does draw a lot of students from South Florida) is pretty strong.

And I have to think that it's even more true of FBS schools with 15000 people in the seats.
07-26-2013 01:34 PM
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Post: #48
RE: So why is this happening? Specifically, why is it happening NOW?
(07-26-2013 01:34 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 01:32 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 08:33 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  I would be willing to bet that the average UCF student who is interested in collegiate athletics primarily follows UCF. That isn't true at D-IAA schools, like Florida A&M.]

nz, I only wish that were true. It's slowly changing, but the majority of college sports fans that come to UCF are not primarily UCF fans. It's sad and I hate to admit it, but it's true. There are more now then when I went to school there, but the outside influence of UF, FSU, and Miami (UCF does draw a lot of students from South Florida) is pretty strong.

And I have to think that it's even more true of FBS schools with 15000 people in the seats.

I had a friend at Lousiana Tech who complained about the students leaving at halftime of homecoming to go home and watch the LSU game.
07-26-2013 03:37 PM
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Post: #49
RE: So why is this happening? Specifically, why is it happening NOW?
(07-26-2013 03:37 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 01:34 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 01:32 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 08:33 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  I would be willing to bet that the average UCF student who is interested in collegiate athletics primarily follows UCF. That isn't true at D-IAA schools, like Florida A&M.]

nz, I only wish that were true. It's slowly changing, but the majority of college sports fans that come to UCF are not primarily UCF fans. It's sad and I hate to admit it, but it's true. There are more now then when I went to school there, but the outside influence of UF, FSU, and Miami (UCF does draw a lot of students from South Florida) is pretty strong.

And I have to think that it's even more true of FBS schools with 15000 people in the seats.

I had a friend at Lousiana Tech who complained about the students leaving at halftime of homecoming to go home and watch the LSU game.

This season, FIU moved their game vs. UCF on Sept. 7 at noon to Sept. 6 at night to avoid a conflict with the UF/Miami game which would have been at the same time (noon on Sept. 7). FIU was concerned nobody would come to their game at all.
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2013 04:14 PM by CommuterBob.)
07-26-2013 04:13 PM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #50
RE: So why is this happening? Specifically, why is it happening NOW?
(07-26-2013 07:36 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(07-26-2013 06:54 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  To the question of why. The answer may be:
1 Realignment has screwed up voting balance.
2 Once passions cleared Penn St felt like an overreach.
3 USC and Miami investigations showed enforcement out of control while the fast Auburn clearance felt like a fix with troubling clearance of Cam compared to the Ohio St mess.
4 Last summit produced a quick flurry of proposals that have proved contentious AFTER passing (see recruiting deregulation)
5 But CFP with only FBS voting has been smooth in comparison.

#2 Are you really hearing that administrators feel that way? Noone is saying that in public. Someone made the comment people in general were feeling more that way, but I don't think there has been any softening in people's opinions.

I'm sure not hearing that Penn State felt like an overreaach. The only ones who seem to feel that way are in State College, PA.
07-28-2013 07:26 AM
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Post: #51
RE: So why is this happening? Specifically, why is it happening NOW?
There is a difference in thinking the Penn St punishment was just and thinking the NCAA over-stepped its bounds.
07-28-2013 06:38 PM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #52
RE: So why is this happening? Specifically, why is it happening NOW?
(07-28-2013 06:38 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  There is a difference in thinking the Penn St punishment was just and thinking the NCAA over-stepped its bounds.

It definitely was "just" - just what they deserved.
07-28-2013 06:59 PM
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Post: #53
RE: So why is this happening? Specifically, why is it happening NOW?
(07-28-2013 06:59 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(07-28-2013 06:38 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  There is a difference in thinking the Penn St punishment was just and thinking the NCAA over-stepped its bounds.

It definitely was "just" - just what they deserved.

I've got no complaint, the cover-up so virulent few non-Penn State fans are complaining, but it has to be a concern wondering how close does a case have to be to that before the NCAA uses the not in the rule book powers again?
07-29-2013 12:12 AM
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