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Why college football will be dead in 20 years
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Hokie4Skins Offline
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Why college football will be dead in 20 years
Click and read, it's not for any of the reasons I've ever heard before.

http://www.cornnation.com/2013/7/18/4532...n-20-years
07-24-2013 07:22 AM
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QuestionSocratic Offline
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
I'm 69 so I''ll probably be dead in 20 years.
07-24-2013 07:34 AM
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
(07-24-2013 07:22 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Click and read, it's not for any of the reasons I've ever heard before.

http://www.cornnation.com/2013/7/18/4532...n-20-years

One thing in the article that isn't quite correct is the percentage of money each school makes coming from TV rights fees. The percentage may be correct in terms of the amount an institution receives from the conference, but that isn't the sole source of income. It's probably closer to 50% than 74%.

Other than that, the MOOCs angle and how it could potentially change higher education as we know it, is extremely interesting.

Cheers,
Neil
07-24-2013 07:38 AM
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EerMeNow Offline
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
MOOCs are changing traditional higher education.....but not replacing it. They're forcing higher ed to think about program delivery, institutional missions, "clientele", etc.



I do think football (college and pro) is in serious trouble in the long term. If there are any Malcolm Gladwell fans out there, it's worth listening to what he has to say about the matter.
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2013 08:26 AM by EerMeNow.)
07-24-2013 08:25 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
I think this is alarmist tripe. There is no question that technological changes have forced colleges into change over the past several years and those changes will continue going forward. However, the notion that the University of Phoenix will somehow put out of business Arizona State is a little far-fetched to me. And when I say a little far fetched, I mean like one or two steps beyond Lord of the Rings far fetched.
07-24-2013 08:50 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
Also, I do agree with his point that college athletics is under a funding bubble that is somewhat similar to the housing bubble in the last decade. However, to go from there to college football will be dead within 20 years (where did that no. come from, BTW) is quite an extrapolation, IMHO.
07-24-2013 08:51 AM
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brista21 Offline
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
(07-24-2013 08:50 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I think this is alarmist tripe. There is no question that technological changes have forced colleges into change over the past several years and those changes will continue going forward. However, the notion that the University of Phoenix will somehow put out of business Arizona State is a little far-fetched to me. And when I say a little far fetched, I mean like one or two steps beyond Lord of the Rings far fetched.

I agree with you 100% on this. Couldn't have put it better.
07-24-2013 09:15 AM
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10thMountain Offline
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
If anything, it could make college sports even MORE profitable by increasing the number of people with degrees from a school and then giving them a reason to support that school's athletics.
07-24-2013 09:40 AM
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
I don't think it will be dead. Boxing is not dead. Horse racing is not dead, etc., etc.

Is it plausible that college football will be less significant? Absolutely.

We know viewership is rising for soccer and UFC. We know that MLS teams have strikingly low median ages of season ticket holders. Add whatever other trends you feel like here.

History tells us that sports enjoy periods of rise and fall. Some fade out of the national spotlight while others just take a spot on the edge instead of close to the center.

Even if colleges as we know them re-shape dramatically there will remain a physical campus with on-campus students for at least a portion of the population and sports will likely still be deemed a good marketing outlet.
07-24-2013 09:43 AM
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
(07-24-2013 08:51 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Also, I do agree with his point that college athletics is under a funding bubble that is somewhat similar to the housing bubble in the last decade. However, to go from there to college football will be dead within 20 years (where did that no. come from, BTW) is quite an extrapolation, IMHO.

The bubble if it is proven to exist poses little danger to the majority of FBS and the majority of FCS. The top programs do not rely heavily enough on that revenue to support the overall venture, the bottom programs likewise do not. It is the bottom half to 2/3rds of the P5 who would be at risk and then primarily if they are relying on that revenue to fund debt service.
07-24-2013 09:45 AM
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krup Offline
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
(07-24-2013 09:15 AM)brista21 Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 08:50 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I think this is alarmist tripe. There is no question that technological changes have forced colleges into change over the past several years and those changes will continue going forward. However, the notion that the University of Phoenix will somehow put out of business Arizona State is a little far-fetched to me. And when I say a little far fetched, I mean like one or two steps beyond Lord of the Rings far fetched.

I agree with you 100% on this. Couldn't have put it better.

I think it is overly alarmist but you can't ignore the bubble in college education that has occurred over the last few decades. An "okay" student that is good with their hands could be better served learning a trade instead of being just another person with a Business degree from a weak school that can't get a job.

I think the student loan crisis and the weak economy might finally put an end to the misconception that the goal should be for everyone to go to college. When that happens, some schools will go under (but it won't be the Arizona State types).
07-24-2013 09:49 AM
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
(07-24-2013 08:25 AM)EerMeNow Wrote:  MOOCs are changing traditional higher education.....but not replacing it. They're forcing higher ed to think about program delivery, institutional missions, "clientele", etc.

I do think football (college and pro) is in serious trouble in the long term. If there are any Malcolm Gladwell fans out there, it's worth listening to what he has to say about the matter.

Yeah, the research on concussions is a much bigger long-term issue for college football than online education. There is one study, which Gladwell mentioned in a talk about football concussions, that found that 7-year-old football players banging their helmets together is the head-trauma equivalent of a kid hitting his head against a car dashboard at 15 mph.

It might take years for the information to be absorbed by parents as a group, but when it is absorbed, a lot of parents will decide that signing their sons up for football would be like signing them up for boxing. And then the number of kids playing football will drop, and then several years later, the talent pool in high school and college football will be much smaller.
07-24-2013 09:51 AM
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
The author of the article is all sorts of confused. He talks about how there's a crisis in student loans because of spiraling college costs and then counts this as a point in favor of the MOOCs? The whole business model of MOOCs is to hard sell poorly educated, down on their luck customers into taking out massive amounts of student loans to pay for a worthless degree. He's confusing MMOCs with community colleges just because it suits his argument.
07-24-2013 09:57 AM
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orangefan Offline
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
(07-24-2013 07:38 AM)omniorange Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 07:22 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Click and read, it's not for any of the reasons I've ever heard before.

http://www.cornnation.com/2013/7/18/4532...n-20-years

One thing in the article that isn't quite correct is the percentage of money each school makes coming from TV rights fees. The percentage may be correct in terms of the amount an institution receives from the conference, but that isn't the sole source of income. It's probably closer to 50% than 74%.

Other than that, the MOOCs angle and how it could potentially change higher education as we know it, is extremely interesting.

Cheers,
Neil

The high percentages of TV revenue as part of conference revenues (74%) and NCAA revenues (81%) is completely misleading. These revenue sources do not represent even a majority of athletic revenues for most, if not all, FBS schools. Tickets and donations are the primary source of revenues. For many schools this is augmented by student fees and/or support from nonathletic university funds.

Take Louisville and Syracuse for instance. Playing in the Big East, they received $5 million +/- in TV money, yet their athletic department revenues exceeded $80 million and $70 million respectively.

It is certainly conceivable that the recent explosion in TV rights fees will not continue forever. However, most conferences have long term rights deals that will not expire until the 2020s. If the business model for cable has changed, will rights fees collapse? My guess is that even in a worst case scenario, the likely outcome is that fees will be flat, not drop precipitously. This will put some pressure on athletic departments to manage costs more carefully or to develop additional revenue streams, but not mean an end to college sports.
07-24-2013 10:57 AM
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
Meh. Part of the reason kids will keep going to the traditional campus learning is because of the campus. Getting away from home, siblings, parents...etc. It's time to socialize, open their minds, explore the world and yes learn. Sure there will always be a market for the online learning and I can even see it replacing the 101 series classes, and there will always be the awkward unable to socialize geeks who prefer the anonymity of their parents basement to the large lecture halls. However, in the end, the college experience for most people will be the preferred method over wikidegree.com.
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2013 11:45 AM by bevotex.)
07-24-2013 11:44 AM
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
Before this is dismissed out of hand entirely the article does a good job of raising the attention level to certain trends which will change our way of life, although the direct connection to college football remains to be seen. I hear a healthy dose of skepticism in your posts, but I also hear some denial.

In the state of Georgia they are conducting an experiment to educate some of the better students at home via courses taught on line and produced by an ACC school. The cost of educating that student at home is 3,000 per year per student. The cost of educating that same teen traditionally is over 11,000 per student. With the state budgets across the country under stress these kinds of options will be experimented with. Facing educators in Georgia for the upcoming year are more drawbacks in employment opportunities, cutting of arts, closing of schools, and furloughs. In my experience what happens at the grass roots level eventually affects the institutions further up the food chain.

The greatest threat to University enrollment is the high cost of getting that watered down degree. Fewer people will be able to afford that expensive degree in a world of automation, cheap labor, and corporate streamlining that all diminish job prospects. Educators are in denial about this. History, state funding, and tenure have dulled their brains to risks that the future trends pose against their profession. Like many government employees they feel entitled (and this is not a knock against them it is rather a product of the culture which developed them).

I'm sure that city workers who retired in Birmingham, AL and Detroit, MI never ever believed that one day in the midst of their retirement that their monthly check would be reduced from a meager $1,200 a month to $300 a month. Could you handle that?

We had an education major at Auburn who graduated Summa *** Laude and spent a year finding a job, and then the only one she could land was in inner city Miami. Not only was this young woman a stellar individual but a former tutor for our athletes. You would think that with her grades, high performance rating, and some political pull she would have had a top choice job, and that within months of graduation.

Many of us here are either retired or in the midst of our careers. We are insulated from the changes in our world by what we perceive as the reality of our security. I'm not being an alarmist, but rather a realist, when I say that in life there is no security only change and adaptability.

As I have written before college football realignment, which is why we are posting on this board, is about survival, not greed. State funding has already been cut to most colleges. There are a growing number of graduates who aren't entering the work force. The mentality of most Universities is to raise costs rather than to try to increase enrollment by lowering them, and if they do try to increase enrollment they still don't reduce the tenures and salaries of the most expensive aspects of their payrolls. Instead, they tend to furlough the low level employees of the schools first and put their payroll on freeze. These measures, ridiculous as they are in practice, have not stemmed the problems, and won't. Enrollment will be down because jobs can't be promised. Departments will be cut. Corporate grants will be more depended upon and fought for. The overall quality of the professional educator's life will start to diminish. Heck, it has already happened in medicine why would anyone think it is not coming in education too.

The truth is we live in a world with an endless supply of labor at a time when automation and technology mean we need even less of a work force. Folks that is a crisis. And it is one that states will respond to with more automation and technology (which will further diminish their tax bases). Add to that the fact that our economic models are threatened because of this and that fiat currencies cannot maintain value in such an environment and we face much more serious issues than this article suggests and over exaggerates pertaining to college sports. In fact the very tax based models of our governmental systems is under great duress because of this shift in both culture and demographics. Our 19th and 20th century approach to these kinds of upheavals is still socialist in thought and the governmental models bear this out. But the truth is that without economic productivity by the majority of the tax base the model can not be sustained. The national debt, the debts of our states, and our municipalities all bear testimony to this. But instead of encouraging a reduction in population, a balancing of needed skill sets in the workforce, and an integration of technology with the above in an orderly and supportive fashion, we are charging into a future of higher inflation due to stressed commodities required for life with a burgeoning population globally, and an international business model that sees itself as bound to no state or ideology outside of their corporate structure (which means they try not to support the social underpinnings of government with taxes).

Instead of socialism or any form of state based security for the public, we are already witnessing the disintegration of the lower forms of government and therefore support structures at the grass roots level. What we are headed for is an operational model of social Darwinism, survival of the fittest, the biggest, the strongest, and the meanest. It will come to the United States last, but this is a model that will be imposed upon us by globalization, and not by ourselves per se. Why? We will have nearly 8 billion people globally competing for food, fuel, and water by the middle of the 21st century. The pentagons defense strategies for the 21st century were in part based upon the defense of potable water supplies. In our new world it is the human being that will be valued least, and therefore their education, or anything that might advantage one over another. The elite will be interested in maintaining advantages, not spreading them. We already see this in education. There are a few elite schools out of which the execs are groomed and then there are the numerous state schools that train mid management if you are lucky and otherwise prepare the working class. High school gets you nothing if that is the extent of your education.

What I expect to see is higher education's further dependence upon corporate support. Therefore they will become essentially high tech trade schools that train the support staff of the corporate structure while a few select schools train their leadership. The future will look more like a feudal system than any other form of government, with your corporate inclusion being your ticket inside the castle that affords some measure of security, as long as you are productive and cost effective. Otherwise, you will be on the outside where you own no land and are prohibited from subsisting off of the land of the corporation.
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2013 12:01 PM by JRsec.)
07-24-2013 11:55 AM
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Post: #17
RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
JRSec, I will quibble a few points.

For the foreseeable future there will remain jobs that cannot be automated. Basically entry level service sector, managerial positions in the service sector (normally an advanced employee who can still stand in and replace a missing line level employee). There will be some white collar job we consider professional that are rapidly becoming professional millwork. Vast swathes of the legal profession employ lawyers who spend years working one specialized subset doing the same basic work repetitively. The medical field is transitioning as primary care is becoming more PA and APN oriented because the rate of return on investment for an MD is just not there unless they are very high volume.

The flux may well cause us to see a significant split in higher education as some return to the liberal arts education learning critical thinking and solid communication skills with cultural and historical knowledge for context rather than training for subset jobs that may not survive in large enough numbers for a person to work until retirement within that specialized field, while most will be the new skilled blue collar workers with universities that we know now teaching people to enter jobs in demand by the local or regional workforce. We are already seeing hospitals going into the education market to fill unmet demands for health trades, subsidizing education in exchange for extended employment post-graduation. It is very easy for local industry to work with government to provide trained workers who are trained at our current college campuses with little to no time spent on "the basics" deemed essential to university education today.

As to social darwinism, I disagree vehemently that it will arrive in the US last. Among industrialized nations the US is the least likely to provide a strong social safety net across the various categories you wish to measure. Our grandchildren and great-grandchildren may soon begin migrating there reversing the course of their forebears to go to the last remaining society where an individual has an adequate social safety net to risk not being employed by the major corporations and try their hand at being an enterpeneur without risking their very survival.
07-24-2013 12:43 PM
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
(07-24-2013 08:50 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  And when I say a little far fetched, I mean like one or two steps beyond Lord of the Rings far fetched.

03-lmfao
07-24-2013 01:29 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
(07-24-2013 12:43 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  JRSec, I will quibble a few points.

For the foreseeable future there will remain jobs that cannot be automated. Basically entry level service sector, managerial positions in the service sector (normally an advanced employee who can still stand in and replace a missing line level employee). There will be some white collar job we consider professional that are rapidly becoming professional millwork. Vast swathes of the legal profession employ lawyers who spend years working one specialized subset doing the same basic work repetitively. The medical field is transitioning as primary care is becoming more PA and APN oriented because the rate of return on investment for an MD is just not there unless they are very high volume.

The flux may well cause us to see a significant split in higher education as some return to the liberal arts education learning critical thinking and solid communication skills with cultural and historical knowledge for context rather than training for subset jobs that may not survive in large enough numbers for a person to work until retirement within that specialized field, while most will be the new skilled blue collar workers with universities that we know now teaching people to enter jobs in demand by the local or regional workforce. We are already seeing hospitals going into the education market to fill unmet demands for health trades, subsidizing education in exchange for extended employment post-graduation. It is very easy for local industry to work with government to provide trained workers who are trained at our current college campuses with little to no time spent on "the basics" deemed essential to university education today.

As to social darwinism, I disagree vehemently that it will arrive in the US last. Among industrialized nations the US is the least likely to provide a strong social safety net across the various categories you wish to measure. Our grandchildren and great-grandchildren may soon begin migrating there reversing the course of their forebears to go to the last remaining society where an individual has an adequate social safety net to risk not being employed by the major corporations and try their hand at being an enterpeneur without risking their very survival.

I don't see this as quibbling. I was painting in a broader brush over a greater distance than what you are suggesting. I don't disagree with your points, except for one. At the time our grandchildren (it will happen sooner than great grandchildren I think) hit the work force I believe that open immigration will be a thing of the past (beyond fulfilling corporate positions via visa). What is alarmingly disappearing here is ownership of property. The bail out was the largest corporate land grab in American history. I would even argue further that private ownership of property is merely an illusion. What you actually purchase is the right to pay ad valorem taxes on the property. Fail to pay those taxes and see who owns it. Use of your property is tied up in regulations so therefore you do not even possess the right to use your land as you see fit. The Cap / Trade bill contained provisions on regulation and taxation of private land usage. Utilities now have been given through regulations the rights over a certain footage of the property that you pay taxes on, not just the standard frontage reserved for city use. The average American is not even aware of how Gulliver is being tied down by regulations that are seldom to never published or announced over the radio and television. So no I'm not as optimistic about that angle as you are.
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2013 01:40 PM by JRsec.)
07-24-2013 01:38 PM
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Post: #20
RE: Why college football will be dead in 20 years
JRSEC, if not for the fact I don't want my kids to leave, I'd strongly urge them too. Right now it is more likely that a European will be in a higher social strata at age 40 than they were born into than it is for a US citizen.

The governments there encourage investment rather than consumption and people can go out on a limb to start a business without worrying about losing health coverage or being unable to pay for a good education for their kids. They have strict regulations but lack many of the carve-outs and exceptions that make it so difficult to comply (I am a former chief counsel of a state environmental agency and I can't explain most of it).
07-24-2013 02:06 PM
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